<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
[QB]I am happy that I decided to keep my oldest son.<p>They don't have to worry about OC knocking on their door either! QB]<hr></blockquote><p>As it should be, BTDT!<p>I'm happy you kept your son, too, because you made a wonderful life for yourself and for him and didn't harm anyone else in the process.<p>The way you did it, in my opinion, is the ONLY way to do it in situations like this. Ohbratti and Tigger basically have done the same according to their specific circumstances.<p>When I was 19, I was involved with an 'older' man (nearly 30!) for nearly six months (when you are 19, six months feel like 6 years) and never knew he was married. One night someone eluded to his wife at a party we were all at, and I remember turning and locking eyes with him, not saying a word, not making a scene...I whispered, with my heart thudding louder than my voice, "You have a wife?" He looked down and said "yes." Without any drama, I took my purse off the bar and headed for the door. He called after me and I kept walking. He called several times after that but I refused to speak to him or see him. That was that. I never saw him again.<p>It killed me. I was nuts about him and cried for months. I was also pregnant. He never knew and I gave up my son.<p>Now, years later, the son I gave up for adoption in 1969, found me in the late 80's. He and I spent a weekend just talking and bonding and getting to know one another. He told me he was raised in a small city about an hour from where I lived, his parents were wonderful and his family was cohesive and tight and he had a rack of aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, family friends and a sister that he enjoyed sparring with (gee, I wonder where he got that?) He laughed, I cried, we hugged and it was bittersweet for both of us. I eventually met his Mom and Dad and they welcomed into their family after the perceived threat was dissolved. I maintained my distance and my respect for their family unit and let them include me at will.<p>The most incredible revelation of the entire situation was that for all those years, I thought my son was my lover's child when it was obvious he was my x-husband's son. Well, that was prehistoric, pre-DNA years...a lot of people didn't know or ever knew who bio dad was until the adult result knocked on the door and they looked like Uncle Burt or someone familar.<p>Because I walked away and never asked anything like you, BTDT, I guess I just expect every other OW to do the same...especilly mine!!! hahaha<p>I have often wodnered what our lives would have been like if I would have kept my son like you did...I know he would have enhanced my life. I wonder if I would have eventually enhanced his...in my case, it worked out the way it was supposed to. I, too, would have accepted the entire responsibility on my own like you have, never interferring with the MM or his wife. In fact, his wife never found out about me and was spared the pain of infidelity at my hands anyway.<p>I saw her at his funeral in 1992. She had years of wonderful memories with him and he did love her deeply. They had been together since high school and I knew that the history they shared and the intricacies of their relationship had given them the strength to face his illness and give her strength. She looked so serene and peaceful and loved. I know she is always going to have those wonderful loving memories of him and spend the rest of her life without torment, disillusionment or have her joy sucked away.<p>And, this is the best part...at 19-20, I believed because I made the big sacrifice and was honorable and never said a word and beared my pain alone, that someday God would reward me and give me a good marriage. When I met Bipolar in 1979, I knew he was my "gift", the reward for not blasting someone else's life and happiness. The ending isn't what I imagined, but if I look at the big picture, the ratio of happiness is pretty wonderful as opposed to the heartache of the last 4 years.<p>Yap, yap, yap...<p>Catnip =^^= <p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Yap away! No problem!<p>I'm impressed with the way you walked away with your purse that night. If only I had the character to do the same...<p>I guess I had to go the route I went to learn what I needed to learn. (Not to judge people's mistakes but try to be more understanding of the why's.) Everyone has their own lessons in life to learn and I believe everything happens the way it does for a reason and for our ultimate good--even tho we don't always see the good.<p>There is always an opportunity for growth buried in our problems.<p>Weren't you relieved to find out that your son had a terrific life and great parents?! Gosh, that is such wonderful news.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong> <p>Weren't you relieved to find out that your son had a terrific life and great parents?! Gosh, that is such wonderful news.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Oh God, BTDT...that had been my torment for 18 years....worrying about my son's welfare and never knowing where he was or how he was and if he was loved. <p>In the late 80's, there was a huge news expose' about a woman who had adopted a son and the authorities found that she had tortured and eventually murdered him. I would sit on the sofa watching the news every night during this huge scandal, terrified, crying and praying while Bipolar held me. Within a few weeks, my bio-son called me out of the blue...it was if God couldn't stand my pain and fear and decided to guide my bio-son to call me just to releive my enormous anxiety.<p>I'll never forget that call...I sank like a rock to my knees, choked out the words...<p>Two weeks later, my bio-son came to visit. The reunion was indescribable.<p>Thansk for asking, BTDT.<p>Catnip =^^=

catnip,
Your courage is so inspirational. I'm in awe. Thanks so much for sharing.<p>Hugs,
J

Catnip,<p>I agree with Jenny thanks for sharing. <p>BTDT-I agree with Catnip I think you are a wonderful mother and I truly believe you did the best you could do for your son. <p>Unsure<p>PS-Yes, I'm truly happy with my marriage and where it's at today.

heart of hope,<p>just wanted to add my reply and answer your question. yes, i am truly happy. but my situation is different from yours, as i haven't been through what you are going through and have already been through. <p>my H's affair was purely physical and by the time he told me, he was so eaten up about it that he had already begun to change. he was committed from before d-day to try to keep our marriage, and that made all the difference. not knowing about the OC, whether it was true, etc until a couple years into recovery helped too. although it was kinda like reliving it all again. but easier to take in doses. <p>we are 5 years into recovery, and are now expecting our first child in july. our marriage is better than it ever was, and continues to get better with hard work and a committment to making our marriage work.<p>i can't say that i am glad that it happened, but if it hadn't, i am not sure that we would still be married. it was a reality check for both of us, the affair that is. i am sad that the OC came about and will not have a father because of it, but that to me was OW's choice, not mine. <p>we too, as do others, have a constant reminder of things with the huge amounts of child support and back support we pay. it stings more now that we are expecting a child, and i won't be working, and we will barely make it from check to check. but my child will have the love of both his/her parents and that is worth more than money, so i am thankful for that.<p>follow your heart as to whether or not you want to give him a chance with plan B. but also, know when to stop. i believe it takes 2 people to make a marriage work.<p>good luck, and my prayers for you and your marriage.<p>happy_girl

I'd like to know how you guys can pull out a sentence from a post and highlight it to respond to.<p>CATNIP: You are very brave to share so much of your life here. The more I learn about you ( and all who post here) the more I realize the courage it takes to be "out there" working so hard with an almost unberable turn of events in life. <p>Is your book about infidelity? I write and write too. At first it was about my hurt, my questions, what I feel I had lost, what I wanted most to say to H. (I have written & yes, mailed 4 10 pages letters to OW!!!) Now, though, I am always looking for sayings, or words to songs, poems, selections from books, anything that reflects what I think and feel. Sometimes its hopeless sentiments, other times hopeful. Depending on the day I guess.<p>I am happy things w/ your son turned out so well. What are you doing about your H's OC? Is oc a part of your life? I forget what you said. I really wish our OW would disappear w/ OC so life could be "normal." Then I think "it will never be normal again, so I better learn to deal with OC/" I could do it better if Ow would deal with me, and H thought it was possible to do it that way. He is under the impression it will never work for him not to see OW as I desire. I dont want shadow of OW between us forever. It's bad enough he had 10 months of his life that excluded me, to know there will be more of those moments is more than I think I will be able to bear. <p>Since OW and OC moved back to our town 3 weeks ago, I have had a very negative outlook toward the whole thing working out at all. At this point H is in love with OC and I cant see him giving her up. When they lived far away I told myself I could deal with the very structured visit that would occur 1-2 times a yr. But with the prospect of seeing her around town, or every other weekend, or however it will work out, Im confused about my feelings. If we could just have OC and raise her ourself, I could deal with that cause I love kids, so I know the issue really is the OW and not the child. <p>Since Plan B, H and I havnt had one serious discussion about anything. I havnt asked if hes seen her or baby anymore. I am determined to wait until he brings somthing up...has something he wants to discuss. I told him Ive had my say for 14 months. He knows how I feel about everything. Now he has to determine what he wants to do with that information. Im tired of trying to figure everything out.<p>I guess when you get to the point where youre finally ready to walk, it doesnt make a difference. If he comes up with something I dont like, I wont accept it. On the other hand, if our separation affects him, and he really wants to make our marriage work, hell make decisions that show that he is putting me first, and then I'll give it another chance.<p>Does your H have therapy? I have asked mine to speak to someone about his thinking that its ok to be dishonest when it suites him. On Tues next week I am starting my own counseling to learn how to make it "safe" for him to tell me the truth, and to help me decide the direction I want to take from here. <p>Im scared of divorcing for three reasons.
1) Our son is physically disabled. Mentally normal in every way, even bright. But he has muscular dystrophy and gets weaker evey day. Currently he has the use of his arms from the elbow down, he hasnt walked in 4 years. At 14 yrs old and 120 lbs he is too big for me to care for alone. That means I will probably have to let him live with my H. I do not want to be a part time Mom to him as his illness gets worse.
2.)I never had a back up plan for taking care of myself should H not be around. We own 2 businesses together, and profits from a book my H just published. We are not rich, but we have enough money, good insurance, Ira, Money Markets etc... (H and I have very generous life insurance & I always figured if one of us died, that alone would take care of the one left behind. Divorce never occured to me.) My lawyer tells me it will take a fortune to separate money from businesses, etc... and do divorce, possibly $25,000.00!!
3.) H & I married at 22. He was in AirForce, I was a dental assistant. H is smart and motivated, and after his discharge & working for some good companies, he learned enough to start our own business, that developed into 2. When the kids came I worked part time. After our sons illeness became time consuming I quit all together. At this point in time I couldnt support myself, and that scares me, and makes me mad at myself. At one point, early on, I wanted to go to Dental School, but didnt for the sake of the family. Hind site<p>
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I believe that marriage is a package deal, Love being the main ingredient...but many other factors come into play. For instance, I couldnt marry someone I didnt love just because he had alot of money, conversly I once gave up a four year relationship with a man I cared for very much because he had no motivation to do anything with his life. So to discount there are a lot of reasons a person tries to keep their marriage through something like this would be foolish. Staying together isnt just about love. But I know I couldnt be happy with the rest of the package if I didnt have it. Therein lies the delimma doesnt it? Being happy with H, taking care of my family, and not destroying my self financially. Not destroying who I am and what I want out of life. How do I get it all? How do any of us get it all? Its alot to lose when youve had it all at one time. And Its easy to see that the infidelity is only 1 peice of the intricate problems we are all dealing with.

Dear HOH<p>You have many serious issues and many possible outcomes to consider. The things I have done have been extremely proactive to protect myself, which is pretty amazing since until all this happened, I was the kind to allow fate to guide me in many instances. This time I took complete control and called as many shots as I could...some worked, some didn't.<p>The book is just my story. Because there are so many weird twists and turns that address so many issues, I thought writing a book would solve a few. First, it will help purge my demons and maybe be of benefit to someone else going through something similar. Secondly, it is imperitve that the unjust child support laws are brought into the glaring spotlight of public awareness. I am hoping that in some small way, my words might help bring about some kind of child support reform. I doubt I will make a difference, but if I don't try, nothing will be gained at all.<p>Thirdly, this OC situation is never addressed because of the embarrassment of the situation, the enormous pain of a situation like this, and the monsterous way something like this effects the innocent family of the Wayward, and yet, no one seems to care what it does to us. I want people to know what this does to us...both emotionally and financially. At court, I was invisible, I was non-consequential and treated as if what happened to me simply did not matter. Well, that didn't fly with me because I have a pretty strong personality and my aura takes up a lot of space. It hates to be dismissed (haha) and frankly, it made me furious that someone could waltz into my life for three weekends and change the landscape of my life forever. Just because. And, because she (OW) knew about me all along and just didn't care. The "didn't care" part is what really, really gets me. That someone just didn't care how or what this would do to me. If I could give up someone I longed for instantly upon discovery of his marital situation at 19, I certainly feel a woman of 35 could walk away from my husband, especially after receiving a pleading phone call from me the day after their first weekend. So, I want to really hammer home the "sisterhood" thing...and having enough self-esteem not to allow yourself to get involved with a married anything just to scratch and itch or give into YOUR feelings at the expense of another, especially in a sacred marriage where the OP has absolutely no idea of the inner workings of the marrige, the relationship, the history, et al.<p>Also, my husband's mental illness is important to discuss because of the bizarre behavior and the alcoholism, his suicide attempt, his treatments, hospitalizations and dianosis, not as an excuse, but to alert others to underlying manifestations of behavior.<p>Lastly, the things we were forced to do to protect ourselves from having everything stripped from us, including getting a divorce on paper to protect me from loosing the house and having everything we had left attached, the huge amounts of support that are garnished out of his check every week and the fact the family courts that make these decisions do not thoughtfully examine all the financials in our case and arbitrarily make their determinations based on whims....that effect me and our family every day. They make life altering decisions and I pay. I don't like this and I am not going to take it. So, I am going to write about it, for all the good it does, but at least I will have had my say.<p>We lost our successful business because of this situation and my husband's illness and it is difficult to determine what came first, the chicken or the egg. All I can tell you is to have your husband put EVERYTHING in your name through a legal seperation or a faux divorce as my husband did, to protect you and your family so the OW can't keep grazing at the financial trough. It's an extremely drastic way to protect yourself, but it certainly works. Besides, you will lower OW's CS payments because he will be mandated to pay you a pretty hefty sum for support, and the beauty of it is that you two do not have to live apart and can go on as you always have. Most people do not know we are divorced, including our kids...it's all for show and protect me and what little we ahve left.<p>If your OW is as aggressive as ours is to get as much as she can, I recommend you two discuss the steps necessary to ensure your financial future. You don't want to go through life with her hand constantly in your pocket.<p>We are NO CONTACT advocates.<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

catnip, I am 6 years into recovery, and still not recovered. I found out about my H's OW and 2 OC's in 1996. The affair had died because OW moved to a different state in 1992. Even though the A was over already for 4 years, I have NEVER felt pain like this before. <p>You mentioned to protect yourself financially, I couldn't agree with you more. Within one month, all of H's, and my, savings, bonds, stocks, house, etc., were put in my name only. We also had a legal agreement drawn up [similar to a pre-nuptial agreement.] I needed this to feel some security, for I certainly didn't feel secure. My world as I knew it then, disappeared forever. I found out, "you can't get it back". <p>In my state, a person must have owned whatever, for 3 years. I'm already 6 yrs. This gesture on my H's part helped me to realize he was genuine in wanting to work on the marriage.<p>The only thing I don't agree with you on, is your veiwpoint of OW. I blame only my H, not OW. He knew he was married. It really doesn't matter what an outsider thinks. HE should have it clear to OW that he was married. A lot of singles could care less if a person's married or not. I can't blame them, they did not make vows to me, my H did. <p>ember

ps, I guess I've always thought, that anyone who plays is game. So the only one I blame is H. He is the one that should not have played.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I blame only my H, not OW. He knew he was married. It really doesn't matter what an outsider thinks. HE should have it clear to OW that he was married. A lot of singles could care less if a person's married or not. I can't blame them, they did not make vows to me, my H did. [/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Really? Did I say I ONLY blamed OW? No way...I blame my husband every day. But, I do certainly blame OW as well and always will for what she blatantly and deliberately did, knowing he was sick.<p>Of course OW did not make vows to me! It is preposterous to even suggest it. But there is such a thing as common decency and everyone has a conscience. And, if 'today' a lot of singles couldn't care less if someone is married or not, that says an awful lot about how desperately ill and corrupt our society is...and for a single person to go after anyone married is incredibly bizarre to me...what the hell for? Drama? Messy complications? A sadistic joy in getting off on hurting someone else? For a momentary thrill of feeling like you matter more to someone than his or her spouse?<p>I am sorry, Ember. From now on I am going to completely reject the new sound bite that "the OP didn't make 'vows' to me" because that is not the issue...the issue is simply common decency and knowing the difference between right and wrong and having respect for someone else's marriage, family and life. To compare to another analogy...does that excuse a rapist for violating you simply because he never promised to obey the laws where you were concerned? Or does it excuse the burglar from stealing from you pricelss treasures simply becasue the burglar wanted something that belonged to you and decided to take it...just because he wanted it?<p>I see the OW in my case as a rapist and a burglar, taking what rightfully belonged to me (my husband and my right to be the only person entitled to have my husband's child) and only to me, and raping me into stepparenthood by producing a child and jkeeping it and forcing me to pay huge support payments simply because she wanted what she wanted when she wanted it and didn't care how it hurt or effected and changed me and my life. <p>So, I completely disagree with you on this one, and you are completely right to disagree with me on this issue...I still love ya...let's agree to disagree anyway...I say tomato, you say to-mah-to.<p>Every time I blame my husband, I will blame the OW for her part in it...she knew he was married, she knew he was sick, I spoke to her almost immediately after she met him and begged and pleaded, trying to appeal to her sense of decency...she had the power to completely stop everything but didn't care how destroyed I was or how desperate I was to save the marriage or to get my husband the help he needed...she just didn't care...all she wanted to do was get herself knocked up as fast as she could to jump on the gravy train and every indication we have had since the three weekend fling was all she was looking for was to find someone to pay her way for a couple decades and her clock was ticking.<p>I will always blame the OW for her part as I will always hold my husband responsible for all the terrible things he did when this all occurred and how deeply he hurt me...it's something that plagues me and makes me question everything I knew to be real and true. I miss trusting him.<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ember:
<strong>catnip, I am 6 years into recovery, and still not recovered. I found out about my H's OW and 2 OC's in 1996. The affair had died because OW moved to a different state in 1992. <p>You mentioned to protect yourself financially, I couldn't agree with you more. Within one month, all of H's, and my, savings, bonds, stocks, house, etc., were put in my name only. We also had a legal agreement drawn up [similar to a pre-nuptial agreement.] <p>My world as I knew it then, disappeared forever. I found out, "you can't get it back".

This gesture on my H's part helped me to realize he was genuine in wanting to work on the marriage.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Embeer<p>I don't mean to be nosy, but how long did the affair last? Was there ever any indication something was going on or were you blind to it, either subconscienously or deliberately? Why did she move to another state?<p>I am so glad you and your husband took financial precautions because things can turn really wrong on a dime if you don't...no one can predict when an OW will get a wild hair to go for the gold.<p>Lastly, my Grandfather told me when he found out what my husband had done, "You know, nothing will ever be the same..." I didn't beleive him. I thought we would be different and everything would go back to normal. Unfortunately, he was right. Nothing is the same. We have "moments" that are incredible and very close and special...but, I am the one who can't get past the trust violations and the demons and questions. I have a tough time with the illness thing because no matter how sick someone is, they STILL have a conscience and know right from wrong.

Perhaps our circumstances were brought on entirely different.<p>My H's and OW's A lasted 10 years, resulting in having 2 OC's. I met OW and OC's in person. I flew to her state and was a guest in her home for a week-end. My H's 10 year A was not without love and emotional attachment. To this day he says he never loved her, even though I know he did at the time. OW definitely still loved my H in 1996, the year I met her for that week-end.<p>OWs' children were well mannered, and had many aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents to love them. The OW was a terrific mother, cook, and housekeeper.<p>I could see why they fell in love together.<p>I cried on the airplane all the way back, and for the next two days. I don't cry near as often today, as I did for the first 5 years.<p>I do not hate, or blame, the OW.<p>My H is a man's man, and a woman's man. Kind of like the John Wayne type, [except for morals].<p>I now know H loves me very much. He shows me every day. It has taken me a long time to love him again. It's not the same, it never will be.<p>My heart is like a shattered vase that H has carefully glued back together. I believe he now realizes it's true value and how very fragile my heart is.<p>We have no contact. H's choice. In a way, I'm relieved we are not involved with OC's. We have had no contact for 5 years. <p>Because my H has changed so much for the better, I choose to stay. Besides, I am slowly falling in love all over again.<p>ember

I Aagree with you catnip. I blame both OW and My h daily. The OW dared to wonder if I would be angry with her. Hello? In fact, I guess she wondered if I would come and attack her upon finding out. Despite how tempting that is, I have impulse control, unlike oW who did not. NO matter how appealing my h may have been to her, she chose to go at him , knowing he was married, had kids, intended to stay in marriage, etc. She used him and has ruined me. She did it knowingly, deliberately,and willfully. She was an adult, can antiicpate consequences to her actions. ANd did not care what her actions did to me or my family.<p>No different when a murderer hears the impact of the crime by the survivors of the victim. Because what he did to victim--ie. H-also impacts anyone H was with.<p>
For OW to imply otherwise is simply denial. And denial helped them destroy others. I think that is sick and in some case worse than MM who wander.At least my H admits what he did was stupid and wrong-OW just thinks she is sorry she got caught.<p>She certainly doesn't care her choice to have child impacts me financially.When I dared to suggest to her that the huge CS we are paying include 50 percent of my support, since our state is commuinity property, she just said she would reduce CS if we had 50 percent custody./<p>Obviously, she really doesn't care or get the impact on me.<p>I certainly will resent her till I die.

although i have not been in the recovery stage as long as some of you i do know that catnip's grandfather was absolutely correct when he told her it will never be the same. with grace in our life everyday it is like a billboard on my front door telling me daily of the pain that has so violently been cast upon my heart. i have a very soft heart for the oc's. i can see a definate difference in the decisions of contact or not depending on whether the w or h were the ws. fh and me have some very wonderful times and some very painful times but i feel that i know my own heart and i don't see it openning up for her as it once did ever again. protecting myself financially is another situation that takes on a different meaning depending on which spouse was the ws. but i am looking into that to make sure all my bases are covered. i too blame w for her part in this but absolutely hate the om for his lack of morality, conscience and concern for the possibility of him destroying the lives of my children for the mere satisfaction of his crouch.
as far as i am concerned these people need to fall off the earth into the deepest, darkest hole in space for eternity. this world does not need anyone who would take a chance of not only breaking up a marriage but of wrecking the lives of children in that marriage for a personal sexual conquest.

When you all have talked about the indifference of the Op to the children in our families, I am in agreement with you and find that the hardest thing to forgive in this whole mess. For my H and the OW.<p>I am so sensitive to the needs of my diabled son. THe responsibility of caring for him was one of the escapes H was looking for in the A. NOt that he doesnt love or want the responsibility, its just an overwhelming amount of work to do each day. We have often said how we forget what it is like to just get tired and go to bed. Before we go to bed, we have an hour of snacks,brushing teeth, washing-up, bathroom, undressing,putting in bed, adjusting bed & supporting pillows, massaging, stretches, drinks and prayers before we get to go to sleep. And thats just one part of the day with him.<p>Then at the time A started our daughter was 16, not a fun age with girls. Underneath she's a bright, funny, sensitive girl...but that year she was mad at us cause we home schooled her, and she showed her displeasure thru rebellion in every way she could. Another scene H was trying to escape.<p>My H actually would meet OW and her boys at movies, mall etc...with our son. SHe saw him wheel up in his chair, if she knew H at all she knew how close they were. My son adores H and has said he would want to live with him if we get divorced. I often thought I should let that happen, so Ow could experience the "fun" life, and wild sex she would have with H after caring for our son and an infant all day!!! However I am a rational person, and want something better for my son than that. I thought H did too.<p>H told me he often discussed our daughter problems with Ow too. Ow did have a crappy childhood and ran away when she was 15 from a bad foster home. She stayed on the run for 2 yrs untill she was old enough to marry her H. You would think remembering how hard those years were for her, and how much she would have loved a stable family to care for her, that she would have had compassion for my daughters situation, and refused to get involved w/ H.<p>How could OW have not cared that she was putting these children, who needed their father so much, at risk of me divorcing him, and him becoming a part time dad to them? Or worse making me a part time mom to a child that is dying from an incurable disease, and a daughter that obviously needed the attention of both her parents? My children didnt deserve to have parents who were isolating themselves due to their own problems. Parents who were angry, yelling, distant, cold etc...at this critical time of their live.<p>My D day was 1 week B4 my son had major back surgery...spinal fusion. He was cut from the bottom of his neck to the crack of his butt. Metal rods were implanted and twisy tied to each vertabre, His bones were scraped to encourage growth around the rods, &metal plates and screws secured the whole thing to his pelvic bones. He screamed in pain for 3 months. I could barely give him my attention, as I was so consumed in my own grief and depression. The saving grace was that H couldnt leave home as it took 2 of us to do anything for him. H moved into the back room, but because he was there we could talk and talk and talk about everything. I cannot forget or forgive the fact that I was not 100% there for my son when he needed me so much. Thru phone bills I could see how much H and OW talked during that time, and their insensitivity to me dealing w/ son and A, and sons incredible pain and needing 2 full time parents... and not saying to each other "this is wrong we gotta stop this." just blows me away. How low, and how selfish they were...wanting just what they wanted, when they wanted it, regardless of the innocent people who got hurt along the ways.<p> Its unconsciencable as far as Im concerned...for H and for OW. It shows how much they really didnt think when they were together. It truely was fantasy land.<p>Ow continues to meddle in our life "but only because of OC" according to them both. For sure H has been a wimp about not insisiting She deal with me for OC issues. She always goes behind my back and calls H's cell instead of our home as shes been asked to do. It always creates a fight when she does, and makes me think one more time about divorce.<p>I said to OW once..."For how much you claim to love my H, you sure dont care how your phone calls effect the family he has told you he loves so much, and you sure dont care that every time you show up, you cause him nothing but more trouble. You dont love him, You love YOU! You love how he made you feel, and what he brought into your life, and you are wanting to get that back regardless of the cost to the innocent children in his life...That is not love, that is selfishness. What does that say about you as a person? H sees that, and that is why he is still here with me."<p>And H continues to be a real jerk about the whole thing, feeling sorry for her etc...yadda yadda yadda...and Im sick of hearing how he cant turn his back on OC...and I just have to retort "But youre willing to risk turning your back on your own children? Because if we get divorced over your continued contact w/ Ow, things w/ our kids will never be the same. You will lose a measure of their life because you wont be a full time dad."<p>Once I had to argue that by his actions he was showing he wanted to trade in his disabled son for OW's 2 healthy ones, and trade in a difficult 16 yr old daughter, for a fresh one he could start all over with. It was mean, but thats how I saw it if he left us and went to live with her.<p>What a mess huh? And all because he let one of our customers pour her heart out about what a jerk her H was, and what a sad life shes had etc... I told H to sit down and I could tell him a sad story about MY life, starting w/ an unfaithful husband who disregarded what was best for our own children to be w/ a complete stranger, a person he knew only a few weeks B4 sleeping w/ Knowing OW's H had had an A and knowing nothing of this person, chose not to use a condom to protect me, his loving and faithful partner for 22 years, from venerial disease & pregnancy. And Why? "because she didnt look dirty," and she said she used no birth control for the 5 years between her 2 boys so they thought they were safe using the withdrawal method." Hello!!! Did I mention my H is 45?? Did I mention that my H became a moron while he was with her? Did I mention my H is still acting like a moron because of her?<p>Anyway...so sorry to go off like that. When you are a person who does think of others it is hard to immagine people who are so totally selfish.<p>My mother died before I was 14. At somepoint prior to that I remember her telling me..."Never take another girls boyfriend, and never take another womans husband." Thank you Mom. I listened to you and that advice has served me well. Listening to it made my life easier and better, & I've had alot more girlfriends because of it. Ive told my daugher the same thing. I hope she listens and spares herself what we have all experienced.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pops:
<strong>...i too blame w for her part in this but absolutely hate the om for his lack of morality, conscience and concern for the possibility of him destroying the lives of my children for the mere satisfaction of his crouch.
as far as i am concerned these people need to fall off the earth into the deepest, darkest hole in space for eternity. this world does not need anyone who would take a chance of not only breaking up a marriage but of wrecking the lives of children in that marriage for a personal sexual conquest.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm... At one time in my life, I could say the exact same for the MM that I was involved with... It takes two. I just had to take responsibility for my role in everything. That's it. Too bad tho, that the children are affected--mine is/was anyway. And yes, by my choice alone. MM's children were not affected as they do not know about OC to this day, I'm sure... <p>But you know, what helps is a LOT of prayer. Prayers that OPs will STOP the bad behavior and get right, you know, make peace with God and CHANGE--do something more positive and productive with their lives. Prayer is effective! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

BtDt,<p>Something you wrote caught my eye: that MM's children of the marriage are not affected because they don't know OC. <p>Maybe I'm being picky and you know I like you plenty... but I happen to think my children HAVE been affected even though we haven't told them. <p>They experience the parental stress and secrecy that underlie so many tensions before, during, and after DDay. Children of the marriage lose time and energy from their father DURING the affair, and from BOTH parents after DDay!! I don't think it is healthy for this secret to underlie our lives, but neither is it the right time to tell them. Dealing with XOW/OC definately added gobs of stress in my mothering that otherwise had no reason to be there, and the occassional trigger still causes me stress that, again, wouldn't exist if it weren't for A and OC. I can't pretend my children were/are unaffected by A/OC. Any children will pick up on tension in the home.<p>Happy today, nevertheless [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Amen the Power of Prayer! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
J<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

I agree, jenny. My children are scarred beyond belief from all this. My youngest child asked if I love H, and I tell him no, I once did. My oldest children have seen me leave the house and cry sobbing, not wanting me to go. They see me sleeping separately from H,and know I am not happy with him. And daily, I am not the same woman or mother I was before discovery. I am not happy, as I once was, I am not as energetic, I am not as patient, and our home is not one of love as it once was. It pains me daily. I think the only answer is to start anew , away from here.

Ahhh, interesting... YES! I definitely believe kids are affected by unhappy parents--for whatever reason. Guess I was thinking more along the lines of the MM's children knowing they had a half brother and wanting to meet him if (and that's a BIG IF) they had any desire to...<p>There is a discussion on GQII about children and whether or not the BS's would choose to stay together after affair(s) if they did not have kids... I think it is relevant because on one hand, our kids DO encourage us to be strong and face difficulties and make sacrifices for their benefit. On the other hand, what IS the cost and how much of ourselves do we lose in the process!!! AND, is it truly beneficial if we are miserable in our relationship!!! Please go check it out!<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017605