<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So, then, what is plan A and plan B? <p>Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover. <p>On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again. <p>In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness. <p>A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof. <p>In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan. <p>But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again. <p>Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other. <p>So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B. <p>Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. <p>Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis? <p>While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder." <p>As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice. <p>But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity. <p>In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating. <p>But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety. <p>In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts. <p>But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses. <p>So whenever spouses separate, I usually encourage a plan that moves them toward eventual reconciliation. From your letter, it sounds as if you are moving in that direction, and you simply need to know when it would be the right time to move back together. And you may want to know more about full marital recovery after you have ended your separation. <p>The four rules to recovery that I recommend after an affair are marital rules that every couple should be following. So they should form the basis for any plan for recovery after a separation. Since the four rules cover every conceivable problem that married couples face, they would address the issue that led to your separation. If you were to follow these four rules as part of your plan for recovery, I guarantee you that you will not only eliminate the problems that led you to separate, but you will also resolve many other conflicts that have prevented you from having a successful marriage. <p>I encourage you and your husband to make a commitment to follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage: Care, Protection, Honesty and Time, and once the commitment is made, end your separation and begin a marriage that will last a lifetime. <p>



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Hope it helps DD!!!!
love
Debi

My H called a couple more times yesterday. He called asking if I had been to the house while he had went to get something to eat. He used, what I think was a lame excuse about the caller id, but I think that maybe he just wanted to talk to me. I told him that I was going to come and get the cat and he didn't say much then, but about an hour later he called back. He said that I didn't need to be in a hurry to get her. I think that maybe he is using her as an excuse also. He knows that once I come to get her that there is no reason for me to come back to the house. I could be way off on this, but my H never calls me that many times to just "talk".<p>Again I am trying not to read too much into this. I am just trying to stick with a Plan B for now and stay strong. I want him to see that I can do for myself and that I am not going to sit around and cry about all of this. I really want, if nothing else, to learn about myself during this whole mess. I know there were things that I did to contribute to the breakdown of our marriage and I want to learn as much about me during this time as possible.
Have any of you had a spouse that used these type of "reasons" to call? I know that this will turn out for the best, whatever that may be.<p>THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR LISTENING TO MY STORY AND GIVING ME YOUR SHOULDERS TO CRY ON!!! IT MEANS MORE TO ME THAN YOU KNOW!!!<p> DAWN [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I MISS HIM!! God I wish this was not happening. I wish my emotions would stay in one place. Please tell me I am normal. Despite everything, I love this man so much.<p>I needed to voice that. I need to know if still wanting to be with my husband is a normal thing to be feeling.<p>GOD PLEASE TAKE ME AWAY FROM ALL OF THIS!

Your feelings are normal, dazed dawn. More than a year has gone by for me with discovery of A and OC, and not a day goes by that I wonder if I love H or hate him. My emotions are usually all over the map, but my H thinks I should be over all this. You have every right to feel whatever you feel-your H put you there. We are all here to support each other.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DazedDawn:
<strong>I MISS HIM!! God I wish this was not happening. I wish my emotions would stay in one place. Please tell me I am normal. Despite everything, I love this man so much.<p>I needed to voice that. I need to know if still wanting to be with my husband is a normal thing to be feeling.<p>GOD PLEASE TAKE ME AWAY FROM ALL OF THIS!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Good morning, DD<p>I wasn't going to post this morning but I saw this while surfing the site and wanted to tell you that this IS normal...to feel soooo in love. <p>I think the reason for these heightened feelings of being "in love" is because almost loosing the marriage and your husband to another woman, we are suddenly shook out of any complacency we might have been experiencing before D-Day.<p>Just before my husband betrayed me, there was a distancing between us. He had reigited his drinking career after almost 18 years of sobriety and was pulling away from me. My response was to pull away in return as a manipulative way for him to panic at this and come rushing back to me. It didn't work that way...he just moved further and further from me. I guess I expected him to fight for me and when he didn't, I felt that I had been wrong about him all along...that he didn't love me nearly as much as I thought he did or nearly as much as he had professed to me for two decades.<p>When he left for those six weeks, all I could feel was my love for him and grieved over loosing him. All his good qualities were magnified in my eyes and I wanted him more than ever. I also wanted to 'win'...my ego couldn't stand it if I lost him to the OW. I missed him so much, I slept with his robe because it smelled like him, and cried myself to sleep every night. I was pretty pathetic, but normal in my reaction.<p>Now, 3.5 years later, the tables have reversed. While I still love him, he has vertainly put me through my paces and we continue to struggle with his bipolar disease and alcoholism. But it is my husband who is ga-ga in love, leaving my love notes stuck to the coffee pot every morning, calling me and leaving me mushy (and sometimes dirt and suggestive) messages on my voicemail, makes intensly passionate love to me and does all the things I 'wished' he would have done, all the things I needed him to do, early in the weeks and months follwing D-Day. Those first six months were sheer hell after he came back because he had to get through that fog thing. Then the following two years were spent with him trying to forgive himself and hating himself. And now, while he is still horrified and paying the price of what he has done and is having a really tough time staying sober because of all the destruction he caused us, he is so incredibly loving, it is as he has been transformed back into the husband he was for all those years before the affair.<p>The problem I am experiencing is that I no longer care one way or the other if the marriage survives. While I would prefer it does, I know I will be OK if it doesn't. But most of that is because I have just been through so, so much and I am pretty exhausted and he is so high maintenance. I am already pretty immune to his good looks and charisma.<p>Oh, how I loved him and missed him when we were separated. I was a mess, crying and praying and sobbing in church, asking God to take all these painful feelings away. And those prayers have continued for the past three years. The prayers work, DD. Keep praying for strength and for God to take away those desperate feelings.<p>You're in my prayers, DD....stay strong, stay in Plan B and don't cave.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

Well yet another episode to my drama!! I woke up this morning and realized that I am forgetting what it feels like to be married to my H. I caved and called him and told him that. Well he called me around 1:00 today, not to just talk or see how I am doing, he wanted to know if he could take the car for a couple of days. I am driving the newer car and he has his old work car. I asked him what he needed it for and he said that he just had some "business". I said you mean you are going out of town again. Of course he says no. Anyway he tells me that it is no big deal and that he will just take his car. Now people I am not stupid, the S.O.B. went out of town again. Mind you he was gone a Wednesday-Friday and then from Friday-Sunday to Cincinnati to play softball. Now it is Monday and he is gone again.
He told me on Friday, when I said I was going to get our cat, that I "didn't need to be in a hurry". Why shouldn't I get her, he is not then anyway. As soon as I walked in I could smell his cologne that he put on before he left and was just sick to my stomach. I, of course, got my kitty and all of her belongings and brought her here to my parents. I started crying when I was taking her out the door to the car, because 1) that was her home too and 2) she was my last reason to stop by the house.
I just can't believe how easy it is for him to have this fantastic social life. I really hope he falls flat on his face when this is all over with.
Thanks again for the shoulder to cry on, guys!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

I posted earlier on a different topic, but I needed to vent somemore. I want to cry, no I am crying. I know that he is with her right now. How can he do this to me over and over? How can he tell me on Friday that I don't need to be in a hurry to get my cat and then on Monday basically let me know that he is going out of town again? DAMN HIM!!! I just don't understand why he wants to continually keep hurting me?!!! Just let me go!! Since all of this has started I have begged him to let me go, because I knew he couldn't make up his mind about what to do. He balled for days when he found out that she was pregnant and clutched onto me for dear life and now I get these ridiculous phone calls.<p>I HATE HIM FOR DOING THIS TO US!!!!<p>You don't do something like this to someone you love! You just don't do it!! I took a walk a few minutes ago with my mom, but it hasn't helped. I just want to crawl into a ball and die. I am so disgusted with all of this.

I just posted on my other topic, but in case some of you don't read that one I thought I would leave this here if anyone is interested. This will be my last post, because I have spent too much time dwelling on all the bad and not enough time on Dawn. She is all that matters now. My h is in God's hands and no amount of crying will fix this marriage. Thank you all for your support and your shoulders to cry on. You are all in my prayers. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

dazed dawn, please take care of yourself.
Don't do anything to harm yourself, please.<p>I know the pain of discovery of the A and the possiblity of an OC. I am still reeling from it all nearly 2 years later. Your emotions fly all over the map-and that is reality.<p>Get some support when you can, and let H see you can get through this, with or without him.<p>Hang in there.