CMIRANDA,<p>Would you please quit giving Babstr a hard time?! This is the third time you've made your (UNWELCOME) point! You're on my nerves. You don't have to take every comment about XOWomen personally. <p>B's 6mo pregnant and allowed her stinking VENT, OKAY?! She comes to this site to get support from people who have an understanding of what it is to be HERE and be DOING this... You don't.<p>She had dreams and plans for herself and her children that are threatened by a NASTY XOW who thinks only of me-me-me (no, not the well-being of her own children, just how much fun money can she extort from married men! I've been here a long time and know this story). <p>B. no-s#it knows her husband had a part in the A/OC--this is not a newsflash to her. But it is not good for her marriage to stay angry at him for 18 years!! They are in recovery. She needs to vent on someone else; it may as well be HERE and at the XOW. <p>Babstr's pain is normal and you can't LECTURE her out of her pain!! Salt in her pain you are. <p>You are not in her shoes now, and God willing you will never be, and if you are, you will probably be singing a different tune.<p>------------------------
Babstr, I don't want to take away your grief if that's what you need to do, but it is a relief to me when I can hang onto my faith. I'm a worry-wart type, but not much gets better by worrying. I do what I can and try my best to let God have it. As a wise old lady told me several times (after my second baby died, several miscarriages, and A/OC) "what your son needs is a happy momma, and you can't change one thing by worrying"<p>Prayers for you,
J
in recovery 3.5 years and happy [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

The A was wrong make no mistake about it.. and i am sure we all wish we chose different paths...
I am not condoning what happened, please dont any one think that, we just chose to make the best of a bad situation, I would have been content not to have contact witht he other man... and have him walk away and let me heal... but he is her bio father and he wanted those rights and it is not my place to take them from him.
so we have to work out some agreeable situation...<p> no we dont have BBQ 's and we are not social.. i wouldnt want to be that meaning we dont go to dinner together or the same church .
WHEN they come to my house.. I invite them in.. I explain what they need to know about there visit with our D, medicines, habits what ever we are working on at the moment. I work so hard remembering that the old habits of naturally addressing this man is a no no.. I speak to him and we laugh about things D has said or done, but I address all questions to wife in front of other man so I give him NO mixed signals. That is important. It is up to his wife to say .. dear what do you think , not me, as long as my D is safe fed and happy, I am content with doing that.
This woman opened her heart and has made one of the hardest choices in her life to deal with this.. who would I BE NOT TO RESPECT THAT AND GIVE HER THE CREDIT SHE DESERVES AND NEEDS.
I have to not for me.. but my daughter, she will know this woman growing up and I want her to know a pleasant person who will never say anything bad about her mother or father, my gosh this woman has a picture of me in my daughters room at her house, that cant be easy.
I dont take all the blame this man and I chose to meet all of each others needs for years.. we are both at fault, but it doesnt mean his wife should have to pay forever, money comes out of his pay check and he has had to quit a couple of hobbies.. but that is his choice and what he should do to as a father. He makes sure she is able to do all she still wants to do.. in fact in the begining, they wanted to go to court, and she said you have to get two jobs.. I had to practically shove it down her throat... if he gets two jobs I get more money and you get less time, that is foolish.
fortunately he doesnt have small children at home, although I do.
A book... Nope I am not doing any thing special. just trying to survive from a mess I helped make and want my baby to grow up healthy.. all my kids and teach them better. Because mommy is human too and although I neverbelieved all those years I could ever do such a thing and hated those women with a passion.. guess what we are all only human .. I may have done it for different reasons but I still messed up. Shame on me

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
[QB]I don't know how much Catnip is paying in CS but it must be alot to have her this worked upQB]<hr></blockquote><p>It's ONE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS per month for one kid and the arrears are about TWNETY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.<p>It was enough to bankrupt us, force us to divorce, almost foreclosed our mortgage (until we moved out and rented out our house so the tenants could make the mortagage payments for us) and forced us into hiding all last year so my husband could work for cash for a time to pay off some of our bills just to survive. We were paying faithfully every month when my husband got his job after his hospitaization but they were not happy with the 25% we sent them, they garnished everything but $150 per week. We couldn't live on that and were forced into extreme measures.<p>Catnip =^^=

CM,<p>Just for your information. I am not living a lie and I am not denial of my H's participation. Don't treat me like an idiot. Guess what she got pregnant, kind of hard to deny the participation. I am trying to keep my cool with your non-feeling comments. I have come here for years. And it does make a difference if you sneak around and lie for years with another person and a one time event, any person would agree. <p>Of course you are on the side of the courts. I am sure like myself you are looking at your personal situation. This is exactly why alot of who are from the old school don't post. I am trying to stay civil. I have been in the situation for years, I don't need anyone to convince me what my husband's participation is. The last thing I need is to get worked up more than I am with someone who has NO CLUE, what it is like to be in my shoes. <p>babstr.

Catnip,<p>Go for it. you pay way too much, and that woman has been taking you for a ride for years. I am all behind you. If you have been reading this thread this is why I don't post that often. I came here to ask a simple question about child support, and yet here I am being told how I am in denial. I love it when stones are cast in a glass house. Ok, I need to calm down. <p>babstr.

CMiranda,<p>I see we posted at the same time. I'd like to try to answer your question:
"...all 4 adults love this child and they aren't fighting about outrageous payments. How can any of us heal and forgive if the fighting goes on and on?"<p>Do not assume it is always the Wife who is "fighting"!! It is often the XOW fighting for more and higher child-support, and sometimes other nasty behaviors, to the detriment of the marriage and children in the marriage, and even the OC! Sometimes it is the MM and/or his wife who are the more dysfunctional and irrational people. <p>I think any person has to be somewhat dysfunctional and off-kilter personally (and/or maritally) to HAVE an affair in the first place. We're not talking a bunch of well-balanced people. Add the highly charged emotions of betrayed vows, the high cost of child support, and one or more totally dysfunctional individuals, and the chances of a lovey-dovey can't-we-all-get-along experience like Momof5's and Obratti1 coming out of these situations is pretty close to ZERO! They are the exception, not the rule.<p>If you want some examples, it should be a separate thread than Babstr's. Many will gladly share their story, including me.<p>Peace,
J<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

Holy insane CS amount Catnip!!!!<p>I alway knew you said you payed an ungodly amount for CS...but geez woman thats out of this world.<p>My daughters recieve 890 a month for the two of them...and 290 of that I return to their father seeing as how he has to pay for their transportation costs to and from. And I thought the courts stuck it to him...
We lived in a higher cost of living state when we divorced and I now live in a lesser cost of living state..fair is fair
Support should not financially cripple anyone

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>my gosh this woman has a picture of me in my daughters room at her house, that cant be easy. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I wish your Betrayed Wife could/would come here and read your posts. What a gift to know what is in your heart and to chase away any doubts to read everything you have written. I know if I were her, it would make all the difference in the world and would make me feel soooo much better about everything.<p>Do you know Ohbratti here on this site? You two are very much alike where it comes down to consideration and kindness, compassion etc...and making a very difficult situation so much better.<p>Catnip =^^=

catnip Lady,
You know I'm in your corner--
Fight cat, fight! You're right in that you have nothing more to lose. NY state has so so wronged. <p>Shish Boom Bah from me,
J

she knows how i feel to some extint.. but I come here to vent as well an learn about my self from others and I dont want this Xom to know about my life and personal issues any more, it is kinda like a safe haven for me, i always worry if i say too much if they came here he would know instantly who this was and so would she.
does that make sense. she knows i go somewhere and talk about this but i have never said where, sometimes we talk about these issues and I ask her questions to understand the betrayed sppouses here better.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
[QB]
Like you, I am also tired. I'm tired of BS whining that OP wants something from their WS (as if the WS is some innocent victim..?) after that man had sex with this woman and the end result was a child. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>One last time: We ALL know how this happened. We ALL know what part our husband's played and their repsonsibility in it. That is NOT the issue here. We are talking about the OW here and if you don't like it, don't read about it. It has nothing to do with you.<p>One last time: None of us care how "tired" you are of us BS's "whining" about the OP. The reason for this site, the reason for us being here is exclusively for us to come here to vent any way we wish without being chastised and attacked by people like you, Cmiranda. Get over your defensiveness, please. It ain't about you, OK? We don't mean "you", OK?<p>One last time: No one here has ever, ever said their WS was an innocent victim, ever, so stop beating that tired old drum and stop pushing our buttons. Your remarks constantly incite disharmony and piss us off. I have never ever heard that and if you can point out just ONE quote where one of us have said "It is all the OW's fault and my husband is completely innocent" I will grovel forgiveness at your feet.<p>C'mon, Cmiranda...you know the rules. This site was originally intended for BS's who are dealing with OW/OC issues...this is how we play. Don't try to change the rules. This is OUR therapy and how we get through it.

babstr<p> just an apology I didnt mean to put my situation in your thread..
please accept my apologies. <p> LOVEY DOVEY UGH
I DONT THINK SO.. JUST POLITE AND MATURE THATS ALL. HAVE TO FOR THE KIDS. <p> sometimes i go to my room and scream quietly haha then come out and start over .

thanks catnip, I don't know if you saw my other post to you on page 4. But just wanted to say thank you for saying what you say best. I am trying not to take comments personally. But you know pregnancy hormones don't help. And even though I don't post I read the stories and know what is going on here. That is why it is hard not to get the claws out when you get certain comments. <p>Geez, I just wanted some input on child support, and little support for myself and my child. I sure as he** didn't want to discuss the whole reason I am here, again. <p>babstr.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: babstr ]</p>

babstr
i dont know much about this.. does a review have to mean you pay more, maybe her finances have improved and you will pay less.

Momof 5,<p>I know you didn't. I know that you are close so to speak with CMiranda. But her comments are not what I need to hear. Like I said to Catnip I just wanted some support for ME, not to defend my H, or explain my past. You have given me that support and I really appreciate it. I just don't understand why no matter what the topic it always comes to how me, a bs, is having to agree with cs, and put constant blame on my h. I don't live in Wonderland, I know how things are. <p>But sometimes when you are hurt and upset by things you just want someone to say they understand, and it isn't fair. Not be told, oh that is what you get for staying in your marriage. Those are destructive comments. I feel like I am already down, and I came here and got kicked.<p>babstr.

Momof 5,<p>No the review, is to see if my H is making more money, and she should get more. They never look at her income, they say it doesn't matter, she could be a millionaire. Well my H is making more because he had to work more and we had to move so that we could cover the first support order. I am literally breaking even, and I am due in two months. So isn't like I can all of a sudden go work. My H already works two jobs so that we can pay our things. <p>The way they figure things is hard on us too. She gets 20% after taxes. But they only consider 21% for taxes, although Uncle Sam takes 33%. So for example his take home is only $300, they figure it to be $400, and then they take 20% of that amount. It is just hard that is all I am saying. So she will get an extra $400, bumping her up to $1000, when this review goes through. <p>babstr.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: babstr ]</p>

Jenny,
I'm sorry that you don't agree with me. I don't think one of the rules here is that we all have to agree. We give what we can and if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't.<p>I think for some it's too late to reverse the tragedies that result from an affair. Their stories make that point very clear to me. However, Babstr is in the very early stages of all this cs & rebuilding stuff. I think my point is not unwelcomed. Momof5 shares a very insightful version of how it can work, as I realize it is not the norm. That is what I'm trying to point out to Babs and others here. Why does it have to be such a painful production. If you blame the OW and make excuses for your spouse actions, it is the foundation for all of your interaction or communication or correspondence with this OP who has a biological child with the spouse. It will only be a big problem while all involved have a pissing match as we call it here. Momof5 made a potentially horrible situation work out as best it can under the circumstances. I think its worth us all stopping for a minute and thinking about it. No lovey dovey, just reasonable adults trying to make it work. Fighting is so much more counterproductive as we can all see. I don't think it's all the BS, I'm sure it has to be a combination of WS, OP, and BS.
I have found quite a few people here in my situation or people here who for them, I represent their WS so I give and get support. Lets not go up on the soap box now Jenny. <p>There are alot of people, for example, the WS, BS, and OW here and from one time or another, we all sing the ME-ME-ME song. Not just OW. Not just anyone.
I realize that she shouldn't stay mad at her H for the next 18+ years. But enabling someone to not take responsibility for their actions is in my experience setting the stage for them to carry on with their self-serving ways.
When someone says that women can prevent becoming pregant and they choose when and if it happens says to me that WS is not seen as being resposonible for a child that is produced from their R. It may not fall easy on your ears to hear me say What the hell are you people saying and thinking if you let WS be treated like some ding dong who didn't know what BC options he had.<p>It is insulting to me when someone says that because my BC failed, it is my responsibility that I became pregnant because I should be able to control when, how, if I have a child.
I'm not in her shoes and because of Me, my OM wife is not in hers. We don't have to be in the same shoes.
You make a good point about not being able to change things that have happened. Babstr has an opportunity hopefully to alter the course of her M and maybe all the fighting over CS. I don't know what this OW is like, she doesn't sound all together but if the arguing continues for 18 long years, how happy will Babs and her children and M really be?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Babstr}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>Big teary hug from one emotional stay-home mom to another.<p>Hope you saw my note on pg 3. This subject's movin' FAST
--------------------------------
Momof5, I apologize for my sarcasm, and that's what it was. I'm sure the warmth and respect in your situation isn't easily come by and I apologize for cheapening it. I'm pleased to read how kind you and MM's W are to each other, going above and beyond the 'call of duty'. <p>In "real" life I bend over backwards to be nice and helpful because it is my normal personality. But *our* XOW pretended to be my friend through the whole affair, totally using and betraying me, so you won't find much "friendship" re-developing over our OC. I am not nasty when we have to have contact, but I don't plan to be neighbors or "friends" ever again.<p>J

Jenny, we must have posted again at same time, I didn't see this. I don't assume anything where these matters are concerned.
It would seem that the people in battle are hurt and their display is anger and rage. No matter who they are or what role they have in the relationship.
As a WS, I was definetely not functioning normally BEFORE or DURING my affair. My marriage was dysfunctional at the time, I wans't happy and that is why I got into another intimate relationship. I have yet to understand if or why anyone who is in a perfect marriage/relationship cheats.
I don't want to side track on Babstr thread either. If others can work out the CS issue, maybe Babstr will too. But saying only what someone wants to hear is no way to accomplish that.

bab<p>I know how emotional we get when we are pregnant or under great deals of stress. I am that way as well. <p> I think this mess goes back to like what I said.. society has blamed the other woman for so long as if the man is incapable of making a bad decision, and we get defensive, of course you know what your husband did, we all know what our husband did.
Money is such a touchy subject and while I see both sides, I understand your grief, because you as a mother have a responsibility to your unborn child. That is as it should be. SO you are right on target.. I think sometimes our emotions get the best of us as well and we take things personally . I am guilty of that.
I work hard to do differently.
Some women have to fight to get money to help raise children, even when the children are planned, you do what you have to do to protect you. I understand even if you leave you will lose because child support is figured by who came first.
I would talk to a lawyer if you can and find away to make sure they are looking at her income as well and how much she really needs, and in my state they can lower the first childs support to protect children born later to the same person.
I wont say talk to her and see if you can work it out, obviously if you could have this would have already been done, but protect your self at all cost.