<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip:
<strong><p>It's ONE THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS per month for one kid and the arrears are about TWNETY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.<p>It was enough to bankrupt us, force us to divorce, almost foreclosed our mortgage (until we moved out and rented out our house so the tenants could make the mortagage payments for us) and forced us into hiding all last year so my husband could work for cash for a time to pay off some of our bills just to survive. We were paying faithfully every month when my husband got his job after his hospitaization but they were not happy with the 25% we sent them, they garnished everything but $150 per week. We couldn't live on that and were forced into extreme measures.<p>Catnip =^^=</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Holy @rap. That seems more than just outrageous even if the arrears is included in the amount. Do you have to pay it by the time the child is 18?

CMiranda,<p>Get this: Babstr is not fighting or arguing!! She is not asking to reduce XOW ch-support. She's not talking to XOW at all! She just doesn't want ch-support to go up. <p>Did you read how the income is being decided and do you really think that is a fair way to decide the amount, and without any consideration of XOW's income?!<p>Babstr is not in control of any of this. XOW gets to decide if she wants a review, and when she does, the family's income may go down to the point that B cannot fulfill her own hopes and dreams, that of being full-time with her babies. Just because that's not YOUR hopes/dreams doesn't mean you have to cr*p on hers.

gee i cant keep up with this we should be in a chat room or something...
jenny, i caught your sarcasm and I know this is not the norm.. but I love my daughter with all my heart and I have to make life nice for her because i brought her into this world.. I helped create thisenvironment she will be living in. Thank you but not needed to apologize. I am learning to be thick skinned haha <p> Look let me clear something up, this woman and I dont like each other, we are not buddies, we have learned how to communicate with each other for our Daughters sake. thats all, she does it more to keep peace with her husband because those are his wishes that D not see the arguing and stuff as well.
WE chat sometimes she ask me personal questions I would rather not answer as that part of my life is over and shall remain that way. But I understand her need for answers at times as well.
Her husband was very demanding that he would see his daughter and she made the choice to stay with him.
I also am not a raving mad woman screaming i want every penny i can get from this man who deserted me.
My belief is if you dont want to be involved with a child you help make.. then I dont want or need you or your money.. But I am a very opinionated woman..
WHY would you want anything from someone who didnt want to be in your childs life.

CMiranda,<p>I am not in the EARLY stages of this. We have been paying child support for over two years! This is not a new discovery. What happened was out of the blue, Public Aid suggested we could have a review. No one told us two years ago that they would prompt a review. They told us the OW would prompt reviews. My gripe was never with her, it is with the system blind siding us into more money, when we had NO IDEA, that this would come about. She can go every three years for a reivew, that would have been in Feb 2003. That is what I was prepared for. Please, Please read from the beginning as to why I started this thread. <p>I am not new, not just beginning. I am healed as far as the mistake, the ow, and the oc. I don't like it when I have no preparation for giving more money, and no one cares where we stand. If I was struggling with issues with the other mess, I sure would not have gotten pregnant with our second child. Talk to catnip, child support is my pet peeve, it has been for years. And the reason is because like any mom, no one, and I mean NO ONE besides my H and I care about our one child, and the one on the way. You will have the courts going to battle for you. If we want help we have to hire a private lawyer, just to do simple paperwork. You will be able to personally ridicule, and slander the man with the govt's permission if you want. We have no help from the agencies, and guess what we pay those taxes too. <p>babstr.

child support is not fair and never has been, and frankly there are so many variations to this, from state to state it is silly.
Both families should be considered, and it is a shame it is not, i would get a lawyer and try and fight what I could.
my sister gets only 400 a month for two children that he created while married to her.. but she cant afford to take him and get more and the state wont help because they are over loaded..
we are talking about a man fathered two children, sent them out of state witht he promise to clear up military stuff and would be joining them soon.. then divorced her and married someone else,and cares nothing of these children.
she works hard to provide for them but it is not enough and he is always late or not at all, and for these women if I could I would fight to get every penny reguardless of the fact that his new wife has a child from a previous marriage they are supporting.

bab
I know when things like this comes up your husband grieves fr what he has done and he hateshow he hurt you.. stand together and support each other and it will make your family all the more stronger and God will provide for that baby and bigger blessings will come your way.

Catnip,<p>We all are allowed to be tired. That includes me, the WS. I don't have any idea why you think I'm trying to change any rules.
I don't believe anyone said the A was all WS fault. I know that isn't true. I don't see blaming as very productive and never have. I think what cast us off was a few saying that it is a womans choice whether or not she becomes pregnant. That to me is ridiculous because I certainly didn't intend it but it did happen. They said that it is a womans decision to become pregnant, there are 500 methods of BC (not correct by the way) the man shouldn't have to pay for her decison. That is what I was talking about. I don't hear anyone blaming OP soley for A. But blaming OP for pregnancy, which is why I felt more than compelled to point out the obvious.
I'm not looking to push buttons. I see it has happened, just as the whole argument that I (the ow/ws) got pregant because I chose to and poor OM didn't know what was happening, pushed my buttons. I realize no one is talking about me per se, just as I am not talking about you catnip. But our buttons are sensitive and I see why we get all worked up. It works both ways<p>As a WS it would be so easy to be let off hook for my own decisions and their consequences and point fingers at OM and I think that is only enabling the WS to have another A or rekindle the A, if the set is in place once again for it to happen. Someone said that the BS can't remain angry at Ws forever and I understand that. I thought Momof5 story was enlightning because it sounds to me as if the anger (i.e. hurt and pain) by all involved can be healed to some extent then maybe some of the fighting and outrageous cs payments such as yours, can somehow be avoided. <p>If you all blame the OP for child and hate so deeply then it will come out in your negotiating. I'm sure OW are not always roses to deal with either. Mom's was just a very good example for Babstr I thought since she may have a chance to work it out so she isn't left penniless.

Jenny,<p>Thanks babe, I needed that. I think CMiranda thinks I am in new discovery phase or something. Gee, like your self I was here when we had to post in general questions. that was a fun slaughter house, remember?<p>babstr.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jenny:
<strong>CMiranda,<p>Get this: Babstr is not fighting or arguing!! She is not asking to reduce XOW ch-support. She's not talking to XOW at all! She just doesn't want ch-support to go up. <p>Did you read how the income is being decided and do you really think that is a fair way to decide the amount, and without any consideration of XOW's income?!<p>Babstr is not in control of any of this. XOW gets to decide if she wants a review, and when she does, the family's income may go down to the point that B cannot fulfill her own hopes and dreams, that of being full-time with her babies. Just because that's not YOUR hopes/dreams doesn't mean you have to cr*p on hers.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Oh please Jenny, relax.
I did read Babstr post to Mom just now and I don't think it is fair. I don't think I said anywhere where it was fair to be in her shoes right now. I don't think it's fair for anyone as a matter of fact. What I said to Babstr is that while it may feel hopeless right now, at least she has a professional career to fall back on if she has to work to supplement their income. yes, it's not in her dreams I know. Working to supplement our income wasn't necessarily in my dreams either Jenny. But at least I have a professional job that allows me to do just that. It all goes back to what I said about having choices. I am sorry for Babstr to have to be in a situation where she may not be able to stay home fulltime with her children. I see that she is frustrated and I don't blame her one damn bit. I think it's unfair all around.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Jenny,
I'm sorry that you don't agree with me. I don't think one of the rules here is that we all have to agree.<p>**** NO, NO ONE HAS TO AGREE, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANTAGONIZE AND ARGUE AT EVERY TURN EITHER <p>However, Babstr is in the very early stages of all this cs & rebuilding stuff. <p>**** DON'T YOU CAREFULLY READ THESE THREADS/POSTS BEFORE YOUR COMMENT? BABSTR IS MEMBER # 5704 AND HAS BEEN HERE FOREVER AND BEEN DEALING WITH THIS MESS FOR 4.5 YEARS. SHE IS CERTAINLY NOT NEW TO THIS.<p>That is what I'm trying to point out to Babs and others here. Why does it have to be such a painful production. If you blame the OW and make excuses for your spouse actions,<p>**** WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???<p> Lets not go up on the soap box now Jenny.<p>**** DO NOT INSULT JENNY (MEMBER NUMBER 391). SHE HAS BEEN HERE LONGER THAN ANY OF US AND IS SUCCESSFUL IN HER RECOVERY. YOU WERE OUT OF LINE AND SHE CALLED YOU ON IT. <p>I realize that she shouldn't stay mad at her H for the next 18+ years. But enabling someone to not take responsibility for their actions is in my experience setting the stage for them to carry on with their self-serving ways.<p>**** GET OFF THE WS GUILT THING...NOW! WE ALL KNOW THIS AND ARE SICK OF HEARING YOU BEAT THIS DEAD HORSE. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN. SHEESH. YOU CONSTANTLY MISS THE POINT.

When someone says that women can prevent becoming pregant and they choose when and if it happens<p>**** ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, WITHOUT QUESTION... <p>It is insulting to me when someone says that because my BC failed, it is my responsibility that I became pregnant because I should be able to control when, how, if I have a child.<p>**** "EVERYTHING" IS INSULTING TO YOU, WHICH IS WHY YOU DON'T HEAR ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU THINK EVERYTHING WE SAY IS ABOUT YOU, YOU AND YOU! YOUR SELF ABSORPTION IS INCREDIBLE. THIS AIN'T ABOUT YOU. NO ONE SAID ONE WORD ABOUT YOU. <p>Babstr has an opportunity hopefully to alter the course of her M and maybe all the fighting over CS. <p>**** SEE? YOU NEVER READ THE ENTIRE POST OR THREAD AND MISS HUGE ENORMOUS PARTS OF SOMEONE'S POINT! BABSTR HASN'T BEEN FIGHTING WITH ANYONE! DON'T YOU EVER PAY ATTENTION?<p>I don't know what this OW is like, she doesn't sound all together<p>**** BABSTR AND HER HUSBAND DO NOT KNOW THE OW, SO HOW CAN YOU JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT THE OW IS "ALL TOGETHER".<p>but if the arguing continues for 18 long years,<p>**** WHO'S ARGUING? CMIRANDA, YOU'RE MAKING ME NUTS WITH ALL YOUR SENSELESS COMMENTS AND YOUR BUTTON PUSHING AND YOUR DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS. I JUST WANT TO SHAKE YOU! DON'T YOU LISTEN, HEAR OR PROCESS WHAT YOU ARE READING?

how happy will Babs and her children and M really be?<p>**** HUH? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

Mof5,
I too hurt for moms who truly need more money for their kids. <p>I also know, for example, a man whose first wife cheated on him while he was deployed, maxed out all the credit cards in his name, ran off with her lover, taught their young son to call the new man "daddy," hubby by his first name, and moved to a state where she can sue him ANY time and he LEGALLY has to pay HER lawyer fees every time she does it!!! (Anyone in the deep south?) <p>Most recently, she knew he was temporarily without a dental plan, so she got their son $10,000 worth of dental (braces) which the court says he MUST PAY (out of pocket)! At the same time, she makes it impossible for him to visit his son and throws away the mail he sends son. Since he's long distance, there is nothing he can do.<p>Injustice goes both ways.

I totally agree

WOW catnip,
you got our member numbers and every thing!! I'm so impresssed.<p>Lord forgive me, I've stayed up past midnight my time on this thread and really must go to bed.<p>But B, I'm glad you liked at least one of my posts. (I thought the line about cr*pping on your dreams was pretty good.) You're a fighter and you're gonna make it through this! Shish boom bah [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

MOM OF FIVE<p>THAT IS WHY CHILD SUPPORT SHOULD ALWAYS, ALWAYS BE INVESTIGATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS...<p>You sister was married to this guy. he made a commitment to her and to their chidlren. Then he dumps her and divorces her and marries someone else. In cases such as these where a wife has invested so much of her life, shared a history, shared dreams and made plans and children with a man, should always, always get full benefits.<p>To me this is much different that paying huge extortion to a one night stand as if she were a wife of several years. I'll never ever understand how the courts come up with this one size fits all. I can see why they have to have certain guidelines, but these guidelines should be able to be adjusted according to situations. Like a sliding scale for people who deliberately and intentioanlly get themselves knocked up to rride the gravy train, some kind of penalty.

very true, i know a woman who has four children all different father.. you got to wonder if there was a motive behind all that cs money.. maybe not who knows. but she dumps them shortly after baby arrives and she has a good job. <p> No accounting for scrupples I guess

CMiranda,<p>You are not the BS losing part of the family income to support an OC. And as much as we like and appreciate Mo5, neither is she. CMiranda, you don't live in our shoes stop trying to make it sound like you do.<p>In many states, it is the birth order that counts and in Babstr's case this is what will, in effect keep the support going to OC higher than what her children would ever get. I am in the same situation. OC was born before we adopted. She would be taken care of, financially, before our children. I don't plan to divorce so I don't see it as much of an issue for me.<p>Our CS is worked out between H and exOW. They use the online calculator for her state. It does include her income. Some states don't consider the custodial parent's income, some do. Our child support has varied between $1,700 a month (for one OC) and its current level of $500. H earns 1/3 of what he used to earn and exOW has been gracious enough to accept the changes in circumstances w/o dragging us to court.<p>BiPolar Bear's (Catnip's H) exOW did not accept changes in financial status so gracefully. Because he was rich when they had an affair she assumed and got the courts to believe that he was hiding income. Catnip has, no kidding, been living on the lam trying to get caught up. In many states, the exOW can wait years to file for child support and then get all back monies. Some states don't allow this, thank God.<p>CMiranda, you really could use to work on some empathy skills. Babstr came here looking for some empathy. This life she has is not the one she thought she was getting when she got married. She is dealing with it. However, that doesn't come w/o some growing pains. Have a heart for God's sake.<p>Tell you what, tell your H what you have done. File for CS from your exOM and see how much he likes what the courts do to his income. See how happy his wife is seeing family money going out of the house in often larger quantities than the family's rent or mortgage. You have no right to talk about CS as you let your exOM off the hook and you are not paying CS for a child your H fathered of an affair. You are not in the same situation.<p>Yup, my H slept with this woman for years. Yes, he is responsible for 50% of the pregnancy and for the support that the state would order. I know every single bit of that. So what? When H earns more we will send more. I don't begrudge OC a fair amount of support. If H's income had gone from $200K a year to $60K a year and no adjustment had been made you bet I'd be pissed. If CS and out-of-the-blue "arrears" drove me out of our house and into the employment black market, you bet I would be coughing up hairballs right now. Hell, I'd be boxing 'em up and sending 'em to exOW by FedEx. <p>CMiranda, do you come here hoping for some empathy and understanding for the situation you have put yourself in? As you are getting closer to being honest with yourself and eventually your H and child, I believe that you are getting even more. You come here looking for a supportive environment but you don't afford that to others. What a mean-spirited way to act. Why are you always so certain that you have to pound people in the head reminding them of their (or their spouse's) mistakes? It is not an attractive trait.<p>Here watch:<p>Babstr, I am sorry that the child support payments hurt so much. I am sorry that what your H did may force you to go back to work and not be able to raise your children as a stay-at-home Mom like you had dreamed of. You have faced some great losses but you are a strong woman. You will be OK and you will be in our prayers. We care what happens to you.<p>CMiranda, I am sorry that you are beginning to feel the pain of the situation you and exOM have caused. Good for you that you have ended the affair and are going to try to rebuild your marriage. You deserve all the support you can get. Please consider getting some counseling to help you and your family through this very hard time. We are here rooting for you and praying that you and your H are able to build a stronger, better, happier marriage.<p>MJ

CMiranda,<p>Like Catnip mentioned. There is no one fighting. We are trying to work with a system that is set in the 50's, and doesn't think about us. Where did I say I was fighting with anyone?? The Ow is a stranger, my H talked to her twice is 5 years, I called her once 2 years ago. that is it. My family doesn't fight about this, no one is fighting. <p>My marriage doesn't suffer, we struggle with trying to make ends meet. And if out of the blue someone had to bring up a hard time in your life, make it resurface, and require you to pay some more money, it doesn't really make you smile. <p>Like I have said a billion times, I came here because I was hurting. And you took this thread to make it another personal defense for your situation. When you come here to say your offering advice, what actual advice are you giving that pertains to what I first posted? <p>Do you even know how to look beyond your situation and support someone else? Or put yourself in my shoes. From your replies to me, it doesn't seem so. <p>babstr.

babystr, I have tried to respond to this post twice, and lost the post. Here I try again.<p>I am in catnip's CS monthly income category. For one child. Nearly 1300 month. The mother of said child has never suggested we work out what to pay for CS. Never.When I suggested she consider reducing it, she only offered to if we have 50 percent custody. The OW is not reasonable.<p>She now uses the money we send for CS to take her child to extracurricular activities. Isn't that nice. I can hardly afford to do that for our children with the money we send her. Do I resent the CS? you bet.<p>I do resent her, and always will, because only she and she alone decided to have child and keep a child she could not afford to raise. She doesn't even rent her own home or apt.She cannot afford to, but thanks to us, she now can. My H did not want her child, or any other child with me for that matter.She did, and made choices to affect our economic life forever.<p>I figure what I will pay in 18 years would be the equivalent of a few 4 year college educations for a couple of kids. Gone, just like that.<p>I see no reason to not resent her for her decision.<p>The CS system is ridiculous. I certainly don't pay 1300 per child to support our 3 children, and I certainly can't afford it now.<p>I feel for you babystr and I understand where you are at. I work, but before this, had thoughts of quitting to stay home with my 3 kids. THat is now out the window.<p>CMIranda, you have no idea what you speak.<p>CS is unfair, and angry provoking for the BS. The BS had nothing to do with A nor conception of child, but pays the most for the WS and OP's choices.<p>I will always resent that. and I don't care if you don't like it. <p>The OP gets a long sought after child, money to support the child, some contact with Op, and destruction to a marriage he/she probably wanted to see happen.<p>And I am still angry with OP. Deservedly so.

CMiranda,
<<<I guess you don't know anyone who used birth control and STILL became pregnant. It happens.>>
No, as a matter of fact I don't know anyone who was truly on birth control and it failed. And why is it it only seems to fail on OW ?
As far as my anger at my H, it is beyond explanation. Just because I have a tremdous amount of anger at OW does not mean I don't also have anger at my H.
And as far as his responsibilty to OW. He offered to pay for the abortion. He was more than willing to pay for HIS choice. He was also willing to pay an attorney to handle putting the child up for adoption.
BUT she wanted a baaaabbbbyyy. That was her choice, as far as I'm concerned she alone should bear the financial burden of HER choice.<p>jtigger

Babstr- I don't know what type of job your husband has, but one of these two things might work... <p>Does your husband have the kind of job where he could get benefits instead of cash. I know some companies will pay your car payment or your mortgage or something like that. You know the good ole barter system. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Or maybe this would work for you... (Although this might be considered deviant.) I know of someone who was a landscape guy for a company. He was getting paid weekly from a landscape company. He paid child support from that and then when he was about to get a raise, he created his own business. He still worked for the same company, but they contracted with his "business" instead of just hiring him. Now the cool thing was that the business was totally in his wife's name and he was her employee. She paid him the same as he used to get so that the child support payments were the same. They also bought stuff for the child and had a lot of visits with the child so I'm sure they weren't trying to hurt anyone. In that case, the wife's income was not counted in figuring child support so the business was virtually hidden. In other states where the wife's income is counted, they might form a LLC (limited liability corporation). There are good and bad about having your own business. But it is just a thought. Good luck.<p>And congrats on your recovery! Continued prayers your way...

I know this is "Pie in the sky" but ladies and gents....it's time to start thinking long-term gain when we talk money.<p>There are many, many side opportunities to earn money. Not a part time job, where you fill out a w-4, but side small businesses where income is hard to track down from time to time.....ESPECIALLY WHEN THE BUSINESS IS IN THE OTHER SPOUSES NAME!!.<p>Long-term, it's a great way to recover some of that lost money, and as long as you can prove the business is yours (even if you H does a good bit of the work) she can't touch it.<p>I'm getting ready to start one of the side, if only for the great tax deductions at first. But long-term....the possibilities are endless. Can you imagine moving to a new home, buying a new car having a great bank account and she can't touch it? I mean....the money is after all, YOURS, from YOUR small business????
Even if it's dog gone Mary Kay for crying out loud...it's something!<p>Some small business ideas for at home parents:<p>**making baskets
**editing/abstracting
**freelance writing for magazines (many talented writers on this board!!)
**canning
**baby sitting
**accounting/book work
**car washing/detailing (for the Husband of course)
**Real Estate (liscenses are cheap and the 2% commission is sweet)
etc.....<p>Like I previously stated, I know it's pie in the sky, but if you think long term, wouldn't it be just grand to be rolling in the dough because you changed your whole attitude about this situation???