It doesn't sound fair at all Babstr. I think part of the problem is that there are many dead beat dad's out there and as I understand from the lawyers that I know in study and practice, the courts tend to make an example out of Men in these situatons. I did think from reading your posts that this was something more recent than 2 years. (it sounds like she is on a mission of revenge)
The fact that she is a stranger probably does not help in trying to settle out of court. Have you tried or do you think it can be mediated this review?
I know that I'd have the courts on my side if I decided to take a different path with ex-om but it was never in me to do that. I would never ever do anything to hurt OM or his family. I have some issues with him but none strong enough for me to lash out at in the way that you say I could. Maybe if he provoked me.. Maybe OW in your case felt she wanted to lash out at him for some reason<p>Did you mention if your income calculate into her payment? I know you said hers does not but what about yours? Is your income protected? If so, after 3 or 4 months, if you went back to work full time and H stayed home would that stablize your financial position? Is that eveb feasiable,I know you said you had a professional career?

JT,
I know of 4 couples, 3 married, 1 engaged besides myself, whose BC failed. They weren't all using the same method either. It most certainly doesn't just happen to OW!
I never said he had any responsibility to OW. I don't believe that necessarily, but I do believe there is one to OC.
I have no issue with CS. I think it's unfair what people here are going thru. Its the whole arguement that women get preg. by choice that is insulting to me. I'm sure some do intentionally but others certainly do not.
Unfortunately, and I say this to in response to your comments, H choices do not come into play AFTER conception. They present BEFORE conception. He has no choices when his body is not involved. Abortion, not HIS choice. Adoption, not HIS choice. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but in response to you, the actions of his body were his choice. These all come pre-conception.
As women, we certainly can not have men, who are already at the helm in our society, have any voice where OUR bodies are concerned. They are our domain. BC is the choice of a couple to make together.

Babster,
I hate to interrupt all of this extremely productive dialogue (just kidding, hahaha) but I have to suggest again that you file for child support yourself. I know that you say you have looked into child support laws and that for absolute certain your share would come after oc's share was taken out, BUT that just may not be the way it works out. The Uniform Reciprocal Child Support Enforcement Act has been revised lately, and since yours is an interstate case, I think that they just MAY have to be held to those standards,which basically state that ALL dependant children must be supported EQUALLY. Babster, I really, really recommend that you consult a good DIVORCE lawyer on this - not to actually GET a divorce, but to see what a good divorce lawyer would tell you in reference to child support and your children's rights to it. You would be surprised at how a good divorce attorney would advise you to proceed - and I mean what they would advise you to do if you were actually getting a divorce would probably be far more aggressive in the matter of getting you child support equality than if the attorney just thought you were trying to get ow's cs lowered. I am almost willing to bet that if you filed for child support and pushed for equal consideration, ow's would have to be lowered. And think about it, babster - NOW is the time to do it b/c they are going to review the cs allocation anyway - what could be better than to show them that your h has ANOTHER cs obligation????<p>Sorry to be so pushy with the advice, but it's been a while since I banged this drum and it feels so good [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
-cd

To everyone,<p>I just wanted to say thank you for the help and encouragement. Although I have a degree and had a professional career, I could never make what my H makes. He works as a corporate manager. <p>I am going to once again try to find something to do at home after a few months. I don't want to be bitter, so I truly do feel in my heart that I shouldn't have to make up for something that I didn't cause. My h works hard. I will try to find something at home. But I just wanted to enjoy what will most likely be my last pregnancy, and to welcome a new baby. Because of this latest jump for cs, we will not be having more than two kids. I feel it is too risky to have more children after this, when it seems we will be at the mercy of the ow, and the system for another 14 years. <p>I have said before that at times, this can be worse than a death. When death occurs you can look at the happy times, and move on with your life and heal. What makes this so hard is that something always wants to open that wound up. I am concentrating on the joy of the upcoming birth, pray that maybe the ow won't sign for the review. Maybe in her heart she has moved on and will be happy with the $600 that she gets from us. And be glad that the joy my daughter has when she is with my H and I takes away all the pain. Everyone should have peace in their hearts and minds, and that is all I pray for every day. When I can wake up and exhale with some peace.<p>babstr.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: babstr ]</p>

CM,<p>I think the point is that woman do have a choice. And therefore MORE responsibility for a pregnancy. Look at what you said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm sure some do intentionally but others certainly do not. Unfortunately, and I say this to in response to your comments, H choices do not come into play AFTER conception. They present BEFORE conception. He has no choices when his body is not involved. Abortion, not HIS choice. Adoption, not HIS choice. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but in response to you, the actions of his body were his choice. These all come pre-conception.
As women, we certainly can not have men, who are already at the helm in our society, have any voice where OUR bodies are concerned. They are our domain. BC is the choice of a couple to make together. <hr></blockquote><p>Basically since the sex was not for the purpose of conceiving a child and both parties had a responsibility there, your agruement suggests that woman have virtually ALL of the responsibility.<p>Hence the comments made before. What fries me about your statement, is it has become very fashionable for WOMAN TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. However, it has not become fashionable for those that claim this right to take responsibilty for this RIGHT. You want to SHARE the responsibility at best if not blame the man, but you want the right to choose. Rights come with responsibility otherwise they are just entitlements based on the sacrifices of other people.<p>CM, I believe you have a son don't you? Come talk to me when some sweet young thing gets pragnant by him and he financially can no longer get married or have more of your Grandchildren. Or has to leave and go underground to simply eat.<p>You can talk about deadbeat Dad's all you want but the percentage of women in arrears for CS is growing at a much higher right, why? Men are getting custody of children. <p>The fact of the matter is that women have TOTAL control whether a child is conceived and/or carried to term. She has total control whether she even raises this child because she can put it up for adoption. You may say that is your RIGHT, but what I don't see you suggesting is that women then take over at least 75% of the cost of raising said child if the father didn't want the child.<p>Life is not fair CM, but at least admit that you are sitting on the side with virtually all the advantages and as such you have more responsibility than the person with few of them.<p>Oh Well, when your son grows your view of these things will change. But maybe not, you don't have a problem using your H as the designated father without his consent.<p>I know there are no clean answers. I know further that life isn't 50/50, but it annoys me when a person I preceive to be intelligent won't admit to the realities of the situation.<p>Studies are beginning to suggest there would be far fewer pregnancies if CS were slowed down. In fact, in my state CA they have begun to do a negative incentive approach. 1st child gets so much, the next less, the next less than that. You know what is happening? You guessed it, the number of children these women are having is going down.<p>Money talks and make no mistake about it, it does influence this really tragic situation.<p>CM think about some of this. If you do want to discuss the merits of women's choices and some of the lunacies of our laws I would be happy to. But let's do it on another thread OK?<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Doc'sgirl wrote:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Support should not financially cripple anyone <hr></blockquote><p>I agree, 100%....which is one of the reasons that Mr."T" and I never fully went after my ex-husband while he was trying to finish college (and get a better job and pay more CS later...which he still isn't doing BTW and we "may" have to get a lawyer to send a *nice* letter). I get a mere $200 a month for two girls, one of which is bi-polar and her meds alone cost us $240 a month, which Mr. "T" pays for. We just NOW got my ex's insurance information that we should have had since 1996.<p>I'm fortunate that we filed first and in a higher court. I thank God that God intervened and the ex-ow agreed to settle out of court....the courts wanted us to pay $600 a month plus 66% healthcare...we settled for $400 a month and 66% healthcare...it ain't easy for us, but it's survivable. Since we filed first and in a higher court, OW has to get an atty and file in a higher court to go after us again and she can't afford to. I thank God that we were one step ahead of her.<p>I wish it were all easy for us to keep it peaceful...our ex-Ow told us to our face that she did this to keep Mr. "T" in her life. She pretty much told us that she got pg on purpose...what do you say to that? "Geeze...thanks for your honesty?" <p>It isn't easy and since I'm screwed on BOTH sides of the fence by paying too much to Ex-OW and not getting what's fair for my two children of my first marriage, I see BOTH sides. I try to be fair...it's too bad the courts here can't get my ex to ante up what my children need.<p>It stinks to be in the middle of this.<p>*sigh*<p>Praying for EVERYONE...
Twiisty [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Geez! Do I dare even comment on this thread! Yikes!! <p>I guess I will do so anyhow and hope I offend no one in the process, if I do, let me apologize ahead of time. <p>First and formost, yes, I agree that the child support system is royally messed up. It is VERY true, if she was to leave her husband, she will get less then the OW does, which in all honesty is total B**S***. It should be at least a 50/50 split on that aspect but the courts dont look at it that way. There are some serious changes that need to be made to the system itself, and with the way it's going I may not live to see those changes occur. The courts dont care if the man who is paying the support has enough money left after paying it to survive or not. And if he is married and has kids, they could care less either. To me, this is just not right and it's my opinion that the whole child support system should be revised and analyzed with some serious changes made.<p>Tiger - YES, woman have and do get pregnant on BC. Both my oldest daughter and my youngest daughter were concieved on the pill, and no one was more suprised then I was when I found out I was pregnant with each of them because I was extrememly careful about taking them every day. So dont say no it doesnt happen, because it does, and 2 of my 3 kids are proof of that.<p>Catnip - Back on the second page of this thread you made a comment that I have seen you make before and it bothers me. You were talking about how the BS has no choices, which is true, because the WH and the OW do what they do without asking you, thats for sure. BUT, you also stated that it was the OW who decided to have the child, thereby all of the choices fall upon her. In some cases this may be true, where the WH does not even know about the pregnancy. But I am also aware of situations where the WH knew that the OW was pregnant, the thought of abortion or giving up for adoption was brought up, and it was the WH who convinced the OW that she should keep the child. So in your circumstances, you and your husband may not have known until after the child was born or whatever the case may be, but there are many different varied circumstances out there, and situations where the WH wanted the OC from early on while the OW was still pregnant. So it's not always the situation you described, just as it's not always the sitation that I described. With that in mind, it's not safe to assume that all OC were not wanted by the WH, because in some circumstances they were. Just wanted to point that out was all.<p>Anyway, thats about all the commenting I will do on this thread. Just wanted to make those few points. Not meaning to ruffle any feathers or piss anyone off. Just wanted to comment on those few things.

CMiranda,<p><<<They are our domain>>><p>You can't have it both ways.
If it is our domain and we are responsible for it then why do we hold men accountable for what happens to it ?
Why do these poor helpless little women need big bad men to help take care of them and the offspring they alone chose to produce ?
If you are going to make the argument that it is the woman's body that goes through the changes of pregnancy, those changes only last 9 months. I am sure all of these wonderful ladies would have been happy to pay the ow for those 9 months only.<p>jtigger

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AnnLovesCharlie:
[QB]<p>Catnip - Back on the second page of this thread you made a comment that I have seen you make before and it bothers me. You were talking about how the BS has no choices, which is true, because the WH and the OW do what they do without asking you, thats for sure. BUT, you also stated that it was the OW who decided to have the child, thereby all of the choices fall upon her. In some cases this may be true, where the WH does not even know about the pregnancy. But I am also aware of situations where the WH knew that the OW was pregnant, the thought of abortion or giving up for adoption was brought up, and it was the WH who convinced the OW that she should keep the child. So in your circumstances, you and your husband may not have known until after the child was born or whatever the case may be, but there are many different varied circumstances out there,QB]<hr></blockquote><p>AnnLovesCharlie<p>When I mouth off, I am usually referring to my own particular situation and am keenly aware there are a variety of endless scenarios and situations. I am not speaking in general terms for the most part...just whining about my own unfortunate set of circumstances.<p>Thanks for clarifying

my H didn't want the child, certainly didn't want child with OW, and yes, the, the OW knew this. She knew he had never intended to leave me or our family or our marriage.She frankly didn't care what he wanted. Just what she wanted. Is that the way couples decide when to have kids? I don't know about the rest of you, but my H and I planned for years as to how many, when, and where to have kids. That is the way most do. NOt the OW way.

<<<but my H and I planned for years as to how many, >>><p>My H and I were the same way. And we stopped with 2 because we knew we couldn't afford any more.
I thought that was what RESPONSIBLE adults did. I always thought if you couldn't afford kids you shouldn't have kids.
But all the ow with oc have taught me a new way. You spit them out and let someone else pay for them. I guess I did it wrong. It is much easier their way.<p>Jtigger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just Learning:<p>JL,<p>You seem to be hell bent on twisting my words to suit your own interpretation. Let me clarify to help you see what I MEAN. <p>you said: Basically since the sex was not for the purpose of conceiving a child and both parties had a responsibility there, your agruement suggests that woman have virtually ALL of the responsibility.<p>Absolutely not what I said! My arguement is simple in that a both people know what the risks are and they engage in the risk taking behavior. In this case, sex. I in no way shape or form am suggesting that since a woman has the right to decide to manage the conception ONCE it has occured is she virtually responsible for it. I am saying that once that process has taken place the man's choices are severed because the woman carry's the child and all further process occurs outside of his body. I don't want to get into some debate about a woman's right to chose. We could argue that as long as the wars have been raging in the middle east for goodness sakes. It is simple in my mind, if the man wants a decision, his only option is to make it before conception. It may not be fair but that is how it is. Women have been living with unfair sexual bias and discrimination for centuries.<p>you say... it has become very fashionable for WOMAN TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. However, it has not become fashionable for those that claim this right to take responsibilty for this RIGHT...<p>She can only take on her 1/2 of the responsibility. I realize that the issue at hand is outrageous CS payments and I do agree that they are outrageous, but the fact alone that cs exists (not whether or not it is appropriate dollar wise) does not negate a woman's portion of the responsibility. <p>you say: CM, I believe you have a son don't you? Come talk to me when some sweet young thing gets pragnant by him and he financially can no longer get married or have more of your Grandchildren. Or has to leave and go underground to simply eat.<p>So you are suggesting that I tell him what? Do what you please, have a good time and don't worry about the outcome of your actions? If they put you into a jam in life, just run from them. I'm here because I feel compelled to own up to mine. I know it isn't easy to do, believe me I know. But we can' teach our kids to take the easy way out when we are faced with the consequences of our actions.<p>you say: You can talk about deadbeat Dad's all you want but the percentage of women in arrears for CS is growing at a much higher right, why? Men are getting custody of children. <p>I have 2 very good friends who get nothing from their ex-husbands for CS. The little they have received has been more aggravation and they'll never collect what is owed to them. One has gone off and remarried and has had more kids whom he seems to take responsibility for financially presently. How is that fair? They are a disgrace in my eyes. Men or women alike, I'm not biased toward men or women if they are deadbeats. My state chases these people down to the ends of the earth to get every penny we can from them.
I'm not refering to outrageous CS as babstr and catnip have said they pay. These men never paid a dime of their own free will because they seem to think they can just mosey on their way and FORGOT that they had a legal obligation.<p>You say:The fact of the matter is that women have TOTAL control whether a child is conceived and/or carried to term. She has total control whether she even raises this child because she can put it up for adoption....<p>I disagree wholeheartedly JL. Women do not have TOTAL control whether a child is
1. conceived - for obvious reasons.
2. whether she raises the child or puts it up for adoption. - Just as abortion is not a choice for some, neither is adoption. Some feel the need to love their child and if men have such a hard time dealing with this, I suggest they opt for their rights before conception.<p>You are right, life isn't fair. Women have been discriminated against for all of time. I don't have all of the advantages JL. Hardly!<p>you say: Oh Well, when your son grows your view of these things will change. But maybe not, you don't have a problem using your H as the designated father without his consent.<p>There you go taking your low shots. Oh well, I don't respect your opinion enough to let it bother me. By the way, I wouldn't be here if I had no problem with it JL. Oh you seem to have one of those convenient memories when it suits you. My H and I have found an excellent MC and as our new life unfolds, I'll be sure to remind you of how wrong you are! <p>you say: I know there are no clean answers. I know further that life isn't 50/50, but it annoys me when a person I preceive to be intelligent won't admit to the realities of the situation.<p>I concur 100% and this is why I too am frustrated with you JL. But the world is full of people who see the same picture differently. I don't think we are all wrong but we are entitled to our ideologies about life.<p>you say: Studies are beginning to suggest there would be far fewer pregnancies if CS were slowed down. In fact, in my state CA they have begun to do a negative incentive approach. 1st child gets so much, the next less, the next less than that. You know what is happening? You guessed it, the number of children these women are having is going down.<p>These women?!! Please JL. These women are the part of the mainstream of our society and I can't believe for a second that they are all out for $$$ when they have an A. I wasn't, it never even was a distant, unconscious thought for God sake. Give me the details of the study, hypothesis, stats, population sample, etc becaue it sounds like crap to me.<p>you say: CM think about some of this. If you do want to discuss the merits of women's choices and some of the lunacies of our laws I would be happy to. But let's do it on another thread OK?<p>Sure. I am not really interested in having a discussion with you about Choice but if you'd like to rebut me, lets do so elsewhere.<p>CM

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jtigger:
<strong><<<but my H and I planned for years as to how many, >>><p>My H and I were the same way. And we stopped with 2 because we knew we couldn't afford any more.
I thought that was what RESPONSIBLE adults did. I always thought if you couldn't afford kids you shouldn't have kids.
But all the ow with oc have taught me a new way. You spit them out and let someone else pay for them. I guess I did it wrong. It is much easier their way.<p>Jtigger</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Do you feel that your H isn't responsible either for his piece of the mess? You are right, responsible adults don't have Affairs. That is no excuse for us JTigger. It is a shame that you have to suffer as a result but its not fair to blame only 1 of 2 people either.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnnLovesCharlie:
AnnlovesCharlie,<p>I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated you sticking your neck in out on this volitile thread and saying what you did. Coming from me, no one would listen.
I so have lived your very points both on BC and on OM telling me the child was our blessing. It didn't work out that way in the end for him but I think we (all 4 of us in my A) are going to be okay. Thanks again for your insight.

CM,<p>I am not arguing about choice per se'. I am arguing that with choice (it is present and women have it no debate required) comes responsibility. Women may choose NOT to have an abortion or use adoption, but it IS their choice.<p>So the statement made about women having total control over the process is correct. Conception takes two, but BC can be used by either. Yup, it fails sometimes, but frequently the failure is one of application rather than the product. As you say from the moment of conception on the male is out of the picture for 9 months. Still the existence of the child in her's or the man's life is a matter of choice for the woman.<p>What you will notice here is that there is a signigicant number of women here reporting that the OW WANTED to get pregnant. I am not surprised getting pregnant has also been used for W's to hang on to H's and for girl friends to get men to marry them. Don't acted shocked it is true. <p>My point is not that some how these events should be made fair, they cannot be. But, that it is time for women to recognize and admit that they do have total control over the system. If they choose to have this child in her life, some man is going to be obligated to pay for it, no matter his wishes. The point is that women have this enormous power over men, and still they want to play the victim role. They are not the victims in this situation. They have the power. <p>CM, the people to be most feared in this life are people who have power and don't admit that they have it. They cause a lot of damage, sort of like a large dog wagging it's tail in a china shop. THat is my issue here.<p>My comment about your son, won't make sense to you until he is in his middle to late teen's. Trust me you will worry about him a lot more than you think with regards to this matter.<p>I apologize for my comment about your H. I didn't mean it as a low blow, but I can see that it was. I am sorry.<p>As for a debate, love to. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] But, I don't want to address whether women should have the right to choose. They have it. What I want to discuss if you would like is the consequences and the innane applications of our societies mind set given that the right to choose exists.<p>Again, I apologize for my comment.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL,<p>First I'd like to say that I accept your apology and I think I sense where your remark about my H came from. I understand your frustration and will put it aside.
You stirred up a fair amount of emotion in me so forgive me if my response is all over the place.<p>You must realize that for some of us, abortion is simply not a choice. yes as a group, women have a legal right to make that choice, but for reasons beyond legalities, the abortion "choice" does not morally or ethically exist. You may think having an affair renders one (me for example) immoral. But that opinion does not make it so. I would not and could not have an abortion even though my legal choice exists.
Adoption was not something I could live with either and not what I personally would choose. Hell, it wasn't even a thought to me because I wanted my child. That by the way would be option #3. There isn't any debate about that. OM never asked me to do anything other than take care of myself and he prayed for a healthy baby to be born.
How would we manage in our society if we gave men a choice in the matter? If a woman wanted an abortion and the man did not, then what? Do you see why this right is leaves no grey area open to debate or interpretation? It can't. Woman gives child up for adoption, man seeks custody after 3 months... no one would risk adoption in this country!
My personal choices were very simple once I became pregnant. Do I divorce, do I stay in marriage? Do I reveal A now that I'm pregnant, etc. Alot of women don't see those 2 choices as their only options. They are counting as I am, and I come up with 3 choices...
So yes, now the responsibility comes into play.
Women carry the control over their choices, yes. The entire process doesn't start after conception. It starts before. So the man may have limited control, but it exists. He doesn't have a crystal ball and he can not predict a pregnancy or bc failure. But that doesn't negate his role in the conception.
The man does have a part in deciding on BC. He has a choice to risk it or not. He is not being forced so I do not see him as powerless. Aren't we powerless when we are left with not control and no voice. Sort of like 1st degree sexual assault or better known as rape. No choice and complete powerlessness.<p>Why bc fails doesn't really matter does it? If it does, we'd be saying it's her fault, she took her pill 2 hours late or its his fault, the condom broke, he didn't w/d in time, etc. It doesn't matter to me. <p>I do agree that women get pregnant intentionally. I do not doubt it. It surely happens by ow, bs and girlfriends without any dispute from me. I also heard from a bs/fws who said she felt her om intentionally got her pregnant. I was told my om that he thought often about us having a child together. We talked about it and we continued to engage in high risk behavior anyway. We knew there would be no abortion or adoption and honestly, we believed we'd get a divorce if that happened. (idealistic I realized)<p>None of this is fair, I do agree. It isnt fair to ow who you say has all the power either. If she did not have the law on her side, even though the law can be misapplied and recklessly used to punish WS, many children would be financially abandoned by biological parents who don't pay to support them. If this means power to women, I see it as just. It does get abused by the courts I agree. But without protection, women would once again be subject to men's overwhelming power in our society and be left screwed out of anything for her child. A child that may not have been planned but was created during mutal intercourse.<p>If she were freeze drying his sperm behind his back, then I'd agree with your argument. After conception, his wishes seem to mean little to me? They can not take precedence or be conveniently applied to make his life easier or to run from his ownership in the consequences if that is what you mean. That is why the law so vehemently proteects women in these cases.
I don't think most of the women in these situations feel very powerful but I am only guessing. I see your point, women do have the upper hand legally. But I think many om/ow who end up rejected and abandoned by a lover do not feel any power. They may feel revenge but I don't think power. The act of hurting the op may temporarily feel powerful but it is a mirage and I would suspect, short lived.<p>I know I will worry about my son. I can see that easily. But my message to him and the value I will try hard to teach him by my own example is that we can not shun our responsiblities in this life. We all have them, they mold us into strong and well rounded individuals. Not spoiled brats who can stomp and shout and resist owning up so our life is fancy and frilly. I am here because all my life I've owned my actions I can't live with not doing so. It goes against my grain and that is not my personality per se but it was drilled into me by my parents. I have fought the pull and tried to igmore it but i am losing that battle. <p>I don't agree with the application of our laws in many instances. I dislike a good amount that goes on in our culture in general and the fact that men are treated so shabbily in family law is horrible. I will be the first to admit that. I think CS and family law in general needs to be overhauled and set in alignment with our society today, 2002; but not in regard to a womans right to choose to raise and love her child. That is innate to many of us women regardless of our role in any man's life.
Sorry for being so long winded here. I know I went off a bit......

I just wanted to add a little twist on the OW getting pregnant on purpose ideology. I fully believe the OM in my situation tried intentially to impregnate me. In the begining he tried telling me that he could not father a child. He had two marriages to women who either already had kids or went on to have them after they divorced. He claimed that he tried to have children with both of them unsuccessfully although the details to his stories have changed over time. He did not feel the need to use BC. I however insisted on condoms for BC and protection of disease. I still became pregnant. There was never a broken condom or other mishap. I don't know if it's possible but I believe he may have tampered with them in some way. He did not seem overly surprised when I did tell him I was pregnant. I have never called him on it. It was too late and didn't matter anymore. I have never used that as a defense as far as my H is concerned. If I had not been having sex with the OM then it wouldn't have happened period.

Ow in this case knew H was done and was threatening to "tell" me. He kept on doing the deed a few more times and finally told her to just leave him alone when ta da...she called to tell him she was pregnant and not to worry she'd take care of baby herself...another lie in the web of deception. CS was asked for immediately as soon as she knew H and I were staying together.
Yes REVENGE....<p>However stating all the things everyone here was arguing....<p>If ow was raped would she still "love" the baby?<p>I think not...no revenge money....<p>love
Debi

I have been reading this thread but declined to post because because there really seemed to be no point. Everyone has their opinions and no amount of bickering is going to change it. HOWEVER, gemeni's post struck a nerve with me. Generalizations of ANY kind are unfair. I never knew my biosperm donor because my mom WAS raped but it was her choice to have me anyway and my mother DOES love me. She never received a penny of child support. That argument does not hold water. It was God's plan for me to be here regardless of how I was conceived, same as with these OC. Believe me, I WISH that my H's child wasn't meant to be but she is here because God wanted her here and I have to remind myself everytime H visits OC or brings her to our home that it's not MY will, but the Lord's will be done.

One of the first things I said to our ex-OW after I kinda recovered from the shock of finding out about OC, was, "Pending the DNA, you will get your child support and health insurance for the child." I knew that we would have this financial responsibility. Being that I get next to nothing from my ex-husband, I know both sides of the fence and if the child was Mr. "T"'s I knew we were going to do the right thing. Mr. "T" told me from the beginning that he wanted to adopt OC out and into a loving, home with two parents, because he told ex-ow from the beginning that he was not going to be involved in ex-ow's life nor the oc's...<p>Ex-Ow's words to Mr."T"..."You'll change your mind...."<p>All we ever asked for was for the amount to be fair. Mr. "T" signed away his rights to the child, but we still pay. I thank God that we settled out of court. But Ex-OW heard from me from the beginning that she was going to get her money. She thought she was going to get the man also and that was not to be.<p>My beef with the CS system is that it isn't fair. I'm glad it worked out for us (for the time being) but we never once said we weren't going to pay or what-not...we knew what our financial responsibilities were. Do I want to kick Mr."T"'s butt for being a part of this mess? You bet...but I'm working on continuous forgiveness.<p>It ain't easy no matter what side or your situation is in this mess...it's a mess regardless.<p>Praying for you Catnip that you win in court and Praying for you Babstr that your situation improves.<p>Praying for us all that have to deal with this kind of stuff...<p>Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty