I really need help from those of you that have gone through a similar situation. I know there are some of you out there that have seperated or divorced in order to save your assets or income from child support judgements. I can understand how hard this decision must have been. I know I am on the other side of the coin, but my situation is putting me into a deep depression and I dont know how to handle it. Pops and I are going for child support, I know most of you who have read pops posts know how he feels on this subject, about the bio father being responsible. Well now he feels the only choice is to divorce so that his income and assets are not included in the cs. We are still working on our relationship and marriage and it is far from stable. What happens if I agree to this and it just makes an easy out of the marriage for him--no more working on it, or if he decides not to remarry me or because he is divorced--he can start other relationships. I have so many scary thoughts going through my head, just the word divorce...it makes me cry. And if we do, do I handle it as though its what we both want, do we divide all assets and what about the children. I mean, I know he wants to do this for cs, but what happens if it back fires, I could lose everything--even custody of my children--not that I would think he would do this, but if it goes through as me having nothing....couldnt it end up that way. I just dont want to do it, I love him, I dont want to divorce him, I am so lost, I can hardly function, the depression just makes me so tired--which in turn is hurting our healing...please help me
fh

fullhouse,
I am so sorry you are hurting, have you and POPS discussed this with a lawyer? They may not consider your husbands income depending on the state, Just yours, Please check with an attorney first.. dont make a rash decision.
Money isnt worth that turmoil if it is the only reason for him to do this. You may not be able to get back what you have and I dont want you to throw your marriage away by divorcing. Please come to some other conclusions.
Please see if you can all sit and do mediation somehow, if not in private then in court. <p> Full house you will not lose custody of your children unless you are an unfit parent and unwilling to take care of your children.. and the worse that will happen is you will have to share your little one with OM. <p> I wouldnt do any thing you are not comfortable with remember your supposed to both agree. Take a deep breath and rethink all your options

FH,
I have been reading about your situation for a long time now. I am a former lurker who is raising twin OC from my wifes affair years ago. My marriage is currently on the rocks, but I am curious as to why Pops wants to make the OM financially responsible and introduce the visitation factor into your marriage? I absolutley said no way to my wife back then and even to this day, if she decided that she wanted him to be a part of the twins lives I would be gone...period... that is just me. I am sorry your hurting. If I cna be of some help please let me know. By the way, the twins turned three in feb. so I have been trying recovery for years. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I'm pretty much along the same thought process as the post above this one. My H does not want the OM to have any part of OC life at all. I would really think twice about it before going after the OM for CS. Does Pops really want the OM envolved in your lives to the degree that he will be if you do this? Yeah, I suppose some financial help might help you out, but money isnt everything.

FH,<p>Well, I don't know if this is what you want to hear, but the best you can do in this situation is trust that Pops will continue to work on your M. I feel that as long as you are using the POJA with this decision, both "enthusiastically" agree with the "faux" divorce, then you can just continue with your recovery! Look at Catnip and Bi-polar Bear. Yes, you may have some hard times, but even with the HUGE hurdles they've encountered, they've survived, and are getting closer again!<p>I can understand your fear, though. But this is where you really need to be open with Pops about how you feel, and believe him in whatever he answers! I would also recommend investigating what to do about assets and kids before finalizing anything. Maybe get some advice from Catnip as to what to do, or maybe she can get you in touch with Bystander for some "legal" advice(he's not a lawyer, but is very knowledgeable in the laws or where to research them.<p>From past and present posts from Pops, I do see that he does love you but is still having a hard time with this situation. He still needs time, as it's been said, finding out about an A is very similar to a death! It's basically a "death" to the M that he thought he had with you. He needs to grieve that M before he can move on with your new and improved M. That grieving process can take up to 2 yrs, and I don't believe he was able to start his grieving until after Grace was born. Prior to that, he was still numb, not knowing what to do, or what was going to happen.<p>Please, don't let this get you depressed. I would find myself heading towards a major downhill when Sailorman had to leave on deployment. I would worry that he would come back with divorce papers, saying that he wanted out, that he hated me, I could go on with the things my mind would come up with! When you dwell on the bad possibilities, you become depressed! You need to think on the positive! Aim for that goal, listen to Pops and his needs, and share with him your own fears. But, once you have shared with him, and he has assured you, then leave it at that! It doesn't make it any better when you "nag" him about your fears. That can cause him to change his mind.<p>Ok, I think I started to ramble here, but hope that you got something out of what I had to say. On a small side note, how are things otherwise? If you would like to email me, you can request my address from Xarelel, and she can give you my address.<p>Love,<p>Tigger

Dear Full House,<p>I am sorry for your pain. I know that you never pictured that this is how your affair would end. I doubt that many people do.<p>If Pops does decide to divorce, I know that you will be OK in the long run. I hope and pray that you will be OK. I know that you are a woman of God who stumbled. Lean on Him. Connect or reconnect with your church. Get some counseling. Try some anti-depressants if your physician thinks they are appropriate. Grief hurts but it doesn't have to destroy us. Make yourself strong again. Pops can't do that for you, even if you remain married. Move yourself along on that recovery curve, only you can do it.<p>Has Pops spoken to a lawyer? I don't understand why his income would lower OM's child support payment. This part doesn't make any sense to me. I have never seen a child support plan that included the income of a custodial, non-bio parent. <p>I certainly hope that Pops has a good idea of what denying bio paternity and going after exOM may mean to the rest of your lives. If you and Pops stay together (divorced or married) exOM will be an unfortunate part of your lives forever.<p>I know that he has tried very hard, but he is having a hard time bonding with Grace because his anger is so large at your betrayl. It must be even harder for him because so many men on this board have been able to do what he has not. <p>Pops has a right to say "This is too much for me. This is more than I can take and more pain than I can face." I am not wishing pain and hurt on you; I am sure that you already have plenty. However, you must know that this is one potential consequence of your affair. Any spouse who strays should know that their spouse may not choose to stay and repair a marriage so badly damaged. It is especially painful that this is happening to you because you have been so remorseful for your affair and you have done a good job of ending it and returning to your marriage. (I can think of lots of others exWS who deserve this a *whole* lot more than you do. Mine for example? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )Not now, but certainly in the first 9 months after D-day. It has taken him nearly 20 months to fully reengage and be an equal partner in our marriage.)<p>I hope and pray that Pops would never become vindictive in a divorce and he would not try to deprive you of sharing in your children's lives. Courts almost never give sole custody to one parent over the other anymore if both parents are stable, good influences in the child's life. You may have to share them, but that is not the same thing as losing them. Please remeber that he shouldn't have to "lose" them either.<p>I don't know what to say to make this better. As little as it helps your right now, I will keep you in my prayers and hope that others here will do the same. Talk to Pops. Ask him if he believe in MBers principles. If he does, you both need to be in agreement about a divorce. Yup, according to the Harleys you can't even divorce with invoking the POJA.<p>(((((((Full House)))))))<p>I wish you God's peace and a miracle in your marriage.<p>MJ

HumbleOne,
pops feels he shouldbe responsible for his part, and that he should insure that grace would be taken care of financially if anything were to ever happen to either of us. he just feels he shouldnt be able to get off scott free. he wants him to pay for what he has done--even though he would like him out of all our lives completely. every so often he will see him driving , and it just puts him in such turmoil, its like living everything all over again for him, it sets us back each time. I just am so afraid of what is to come, I want us to make the right decisions, I want our marriage to work--it is just making me physically sick,,i just dont know what to do. I want to please pops, I want to do what he thinks is best, my heart is aching so..

full house,<p> I think I can understand pops point of view.. my husband had the same point of view, he felt like he was doing everything, and this man, was doing nothing and suffered no pain and anguish as he had.
He felt he should be responsible for his actions.
and child support was part of that.
But he also had to come to the realization that this man would now be with his daughter and letting his little girl call him daddy. A big price to pay, but he did. and sometimes it still hurts, I wish he would rethink this... if you cant all come to an agreement together.
I will pray for you and pops.

FH, I am sorry that it has come to this. As you and pops already know, had the decision to have OM in our lives been totally up to us it would not have happened. Although there are no problems with CS amounts or visitation I still do not feel like I have my life back yet. It sometimes feels like 3 is a crowd when it comes to my D. I often daydream about how nice it would be if there were just me and my H and no xOM to contend with. To top it off the CS we get ($90/week) certainly doesn't make up for it. CS was based on my income alone (zero). It origanally had been set at $120/week but xOM countered that the amount was based on his previous year earnings which included a lot of overtime that he was not going to be working in the future so it was lowered. All I can tell you is to keep your communication open to pops. You know how badly he want this. You need to familiarize yourselves on the CS laws in Cal. before you make any big decisions. Do you guys have a lawyer yet? That is who you need to ask for advice about this one. I'll keep you, pops and your family in my prayers.

Here's a thought. It would require a lot of sacrifice on both your parts, but it might work.<p>Find out how longs Pops has to deny paternity. Then move to the other end of the state so that Pops doesn't have to run across the state to avoid bumping into the man who so violated your marriage. Many of us can forgive our spouses when we can't forgive the OP. Especially when the OP has shown no remorse for the pain that they are partially responsible for.<p>Build a new life. Give yourselves that amount of time to heal. The time up until Pops must deny paternity. Maybe time away from bumping into exOM will Pops to self-soothe his own anger, bond more strongly with Grace, and give the two of you time to work on your own marriage issues.<p>If at the end of that time, Pops still can't cope he could deny paternity and do whatever he felt he needed to.<p>Pops, please consider giving Grace over to God and letting go of your need for revenge. None of us can guarantee the future for our children. We can't promise that they won't be broke even though we can try to plan. You can't promise they won't be hit by a flood, get cancer or use drugs. All we can do is meet our responsibilities as parents and then pray for them. <p>If you love Full House, getting rid of your anger has got to be part of your agenda. No amount of money from exOM is going to take away the hurt you feel. There is no appropriate or even possible compensation for the pain of betrayl. <p>Every time you feel your rage rise, please ask God to take it away and replace it with extra love for Grace and Full House. Your anger is blocking your recovery and hurting you, Full House, Grace, and your 6 other children. Give it up; give it over to God. So far your anger hasn't even made one little dent in exOM's conscious brain and even when you get a child support order you won't cause pain in him, just anger.<p>If you want to stay with Full House, Grace is obviously now part of the package (since adoption time is past). You might want to get some books on bonding. There are activities that parents can do to increase feelings of love for a child. It is a myth that parental love for a child is always instant and overwhelming. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Even for birth parents. Ask adoptive parents if it is something that they felt immediately. For some it is instant, but many will be honest enough to tell you that it is a feeling that grew over time. You can increase your love for Grace and for Full House. As your love for Grace grows, maybe your anger at exOM will diminish.<p>Shalom,
MJ

Dear Full House<p>since I have to be somewhere in a few minutes, I can't take as much time with this as I would like to, so I will just address the "logical" stuff and leave the emotional stuff out for now, although I completely udnerstand your fears and apprehension. I went through them, too.<p>Bipolar and I were encouraged by Bystander to get a faux divorce to protect what little we had left in order to keep the long arm of the family court from picking our pockets clean. While they have been successful in pretty much cleaning us out, we were able to divorce and file a quit claim deed on the house just in the nick of time, before they attached Bipolar's half of the equity.<p>Bipolar told me that because of what he had done to me and to our marriage, he owed it to me to do this for me, that he was taking a huge risk, but he trusted me with his life and this is a chance he had to take...for me. He knew he had to protect me and the only way he could do this was to allow me to divorce him and turn over all remaining assets to me. In exchange, i promised I would not abandon him and would stay with him and possibly remarry him in the future. He knew he had no right to expect more than that and decided to take the big risk.<p>Because he loved me enough, and was remorseful enough and to prove this to me by allowing me to take whatever stpes I needed to take yto protect myself, it showed me he was sincere, loved me, wanted me and had faith in me and in our future.<p>He also decided that because of his gross violation of trust and of the marrige vows, he owed me anything I wanted and he would acquiensce. He felt it was the least he could do after all he had done to me and to us.<p>Since he has been so wonderful about all this and did every single thing I asked him to do, it made me realize that that kind of commitment and trust meant he was as real and true as his devotion to me. It made it safe for me to open my heart to him again.<p>As a result, we are becoming more and more financially secure as time goes by. We are still living paycheck to paycheck, but at least our bills are being paid on time again and we are beginning to recover. This has been a four year process, FH. None of the recovery happens overnight but you can make a huge leap of faith and trust Pops and go along with his wishes. <p>And to all who think this is all about money, it isn't. It's about penalty...am I right, Pops?<p>I may not agree with Pops on this but I do understand what his motivation is. <p>I think the most important thing about the whole fauzx divorce thing is that nothing at all has to change in your day to day life. You can continue to live together as you always have because unmarried people live together all the time, and no one, not even family members need to know you are divorced. It's just in place in case...<p>Down the road, once everything has returned back to some semblance of normalcy, the two of you can make plans to remarry, recommit and begin again...a fresh start.<p>This faux divorce thing isn't such a bad way to go.<p>Good luck

as far as people knowing, where I come from divorce issues are put int the paper, to this day, I can type in mine and husbands name and it the net will take me to a page where we filed for divorce years ago and never followed through. so Not always easy to keep a secret. But we live in an area that so many people know every one. <p> I do think that would be a great leap of faith and trust in your husband.. I also think it could work, out, but if you dont want a divorce, then I wouldnt get one for any reason.
I also dont know california laws, as we live in the south.. But I dont think his salary will be included and if that is the only reason then I would wait, The others here such as catnip had to do this, because her husband was the one who had to pay child support, not the other way around, and I understand why they did this as well. <p> Pops,
I understand where your comming from, not as much as my husband does.. But please think about what you are doing before it happens, Just want you to know we are thinking of you as well.

FH, I know that pops has said that if xOM decided he wanted visitation that pops would act as go-between. I pointed out to him that he would have to have communication with xOM regarding Grace if he were to do that. I believe in a later post to someone else that he scoffed at the idea and basically said there would be no communication and xOM would be responsible for keeping Grace clean, fed, etc, while in his custody. While that is true I think he might be interested in reading the thread that Stacia-Lee has started "Looking for ideas". It is addressing pretty much the same thing.

tigger,
pops let me know that the joint agreement is not going to be, he says i have made too many mistakes with out consulting him (meaning the A), so i really have no say in the decisions now, plus even though i dont want to do the divorce, he says he doesnt need my agreement on that, he can get one without my consent. so i guess i am the one now with no choices. our life has gone into a total reverse. everything is in his hands, i just need to cope with all of my feelings, and like alot of you have said trust him in this. <p>i do trust him, it is just that he still has so many doubts, and you know how minds work-i am just scared of losing him. <p>he posted on another thread, he was giving advice to someone thinking about having an A. he mentioned that when he found out about mine, he went out on a couple of dates with a woman he had gone to high school with, they always had liked each other but had never dated. they decided not to have a PA, unless he got divorced. If we get divorced what is keeping him from doing these things he has thought of, this is not the only situation he has put himself in lately, he took a trip to laughlin in our motorhome by himself--when he came home he confesses to me that he had been thinking if the opportunity had arrived he probably would have had a PA, but he didnt. he says he has been getting angrier and angrier the last couple of days. i just get further and further in my sadness, this is not a good situation--plus the fact we are having horrific financial problems which just makes everything more magnified.<p>i know i brought all of this pain on myself, so you dont need to say anything i havent told myself, i just want us to be happy and for him to love me again.....my birthday past by without a celebration, mothers day went by without anything, not even a card from pops. i guess i was spoiled before and did not realize it, now i must face the fact that the affectionate things he use to do that makes someone fel special and love may never come again.<p>is it unusual that even though he doesnt tell me he loves me, he still wants to make love (or have sex every night) This is hard for me because i love him so my emotions are overwhelming and i hold back. its like a thread i read--you could be having the most amazing sex with someone but when its over it is just sex and you feel empty, but when you love someone and are loved back even the most routine sex becomes wonderful because your heart is full---i want my heart full again, and i want pops to be too--with each other. i know i am just rambling off not making much sense, i just have so many emotions going...i hope i am not being too personal with whats going on in my life, i dont want to offend anyone--but back to having sex everynight, he did tell me that if i didnt come to bed with that in mind than i was not to sleep in the same bed with him. is this asking too much, is cuddling not ok. im sorry ignore me if you want

(((((((((((((((FH)))))))))))))))))<p>
I don't know what else to say except that I am so sorry for what you and pops are going through right now.

FH,<p>This description of Pops' behaviour is scaring me! He is holding on to his anger at you, xOM, and even Grace for her being the result of your mistake! I wish I could offer you some advice as to what to do to make things better in your M and relationship with Pops! As with WIB, all I can offer right now is a cyber hug:<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Full House}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>Pops, <p>I am not trying to tell you what to do or how to feel, but you really need to address this anger, and, honestly, self destructive behaviour! Speaking from experience, my first A was a "get back at you" A, IT'S NOT WORTH IT AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!! Think of the old saying, do two wrongs make a right? It may make you feel "better" during the actual act, but then when you look at what you did later, it isn't worth any of it!<p>As for FH not having any say, not agreeing to a POJA, I feel that is also wrong, as you are controlling her. To make a M work, or to repair damages, you need to both work together for anything to come of this. <p>I can understand the anger, and the pain!!! The first time I found out about Sailorman's A, I was 6 months pregnant with our middle D! We had just transferred to a new base, and I didn't know ANYONE!!!! I held on to that pain for way too long, and look where it got me! <p>Yes, we are repairing the damage that we have both done in this M, but we are doing it together! I have made no demands on Sailorman, and he has made none on me. We talk things over, and to be honest, through out my pregnancy, I didn't know what would happen when Abbi was born!<p>So, I have been on both sides of this coin, so to speak, and can understand wanting to act out on your pain and anger, but it is not worth it at all!<p>Again, I am not trying to tell you what to do, just what happened from my side, and my experience. I hope that I helped, and if I didn't help, I hope that I didn't push either of you over the edge! I really care what happens here with both of you!<p>Love,<p>Tigger

FH,<p>Is Pops on some anti-depress or anit-anxiety medication? It sounds as if right now things are sliding for him and he cannot get a grip on things. Is he seeing a counselor? If not he should be no matter what he decides.<p>FH, I sense that Pops has come to the cross roads in this whole matter. He wants the OM to pay his share (revenge), he wants the OM to pay to protect you and Grace (his age and good sense), he wants OM out of his life, but Grace is there. It sounds as if there are financial pressures mounting as well. <p>BUT, FH of all the things Pops has lost, he feels he has lost the one person he could depend on when he was really hurting. That is your FH. I know this will be hard on you, but he needs you to stand up and be his friend. Talk to him as his friend and don't defer to him. You feeling remorsefull and crying is NOT helping him get a grip on his life. You cannot let this victimize you.<p>Do you see what I am driving at? He needs you to be strong no matter what he decides, because believe me, he doesn't feel he can depend on anyone right now, not even himself. The man is lost FH and you need to help him. Doing anything he says won't help him. Life returning to normal a bit with you in control of yourself will help him.<p>It will help him see who he could lose in all of this. Right now someone being sad and crying is not someone he might mind losing.<p>I hope you realize what I am saying. Your best option is to become someone he likes and wants to be with. To do that you have to begin to forgive yourself and like yourself again. You have to become a W not a W that had an affair.<p>THat is my $0.02.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

thanks for responding tigger and jl
its really hard trying to explain situations from both sides, i am trying to be as honest as i can, if pops reads this and feels i am not protraying him accurately i hope he puts in some input.<p>he just stopped in inbetween jobs, i have so many concerns and questions going through my head lately. I did ask him--if we go thru with the divorce (and he had stated nobody needs to know-that it is just for the cs situation)and he met a woman and she asked if he was married what would he say? He responded he would probably tell her the truth that he was divorced. Now how is that suppose to make me feel, its like we are back when we were dating, no rules on his part--not that he is going to be that way, but i am so insecure, i just dont want a divorce, how do i find a better solution. i dont want him to leave me, i am at my wits end. <p>jl
i understand what you are saying, i dont want to cry and be sad, in fact i started my diet this week to get rid of the extra weight i gained with the baby, being heavier doesnt help my self esteem, plus the fact for the first time in our lives together he told me he wanted me to get back in shape, he has never complained about how i look, he has always said i was beautiful, but that has changed, i thought he would always love me for me, not how i looked, i have changed him and that makes me sad. and now i am not confident about myself. so that is why i am dieting. so one thing started. i have tried to be happier around him, but it seems everytime i try he starts rehashing the affair, and here comes the tears. even as i write this the tears are coming.

fh,
I just wanted to asked if you guys are seeing a counselor? I know it is hard to find a good one. Just wondering if guys found a good counselor?<p>Dawn

dawn,
we have been to four, the first was a jerk--pops and i both agree, the others seemed to help for awhile and than we seemed to not be benefiting from any, plus it started putting financial strains on us. so no we are not seeing anyone now. except you guys--hee hee--we can afford all of your wisdom