joell
while I see you are trying to give pops support, And whether or not the baby should have been adopted, just really doesnt matter now, because she wasnt and he stayed,
I agree there is pain ivolved, we have gone throught the exact same thing. My husband asked demanded I abort althought he new adoption would not happen so he didnt ask that. But the other man did. I chose neither, not to be selfish, But I created this child and reguardless of circumstances, I was going to raise her because it was my responsibility and I already had love for the baby. SO every one invoved had a choice, if H didnt like it, he was free to walk away and leave, after all he had been done wrong.
He infact told me get rid of it or I am gone.. I had no choice but to say goodbye and protect my child.. Because as a mother we will die for our children, it is the way god made us. He decided to stay In doing so he also decided he would love this child and help raise her and has done so , he does love her.
POPS is hurting, thats true, but his goal was to save his marriage and thats all K and others are trying to get him to see the big picture, fh knows what she did wrong, she cant change the past, but if pops truly loves fh then he will listen and try and see if they can come to an agreement on how to solve things instead of demanding one way or the other.. because later on down the road he may regret that choice.
The biggest concern to me would be to bring a man into the picture who shouldnt be there.. or they dont want there, and by insisting on this, you force full house to have contact with this man in some way or another,
Joell I realise your trying to give support to pops, No one is against him, just that we all hate to see something bad hapen to either, because it will effect all his children and they may regret it later. Thats all, And I do understand how hard it might be looking at a child that isnt yours, but you cant expect a woman who has bonded with a baby to just up and give her away now, so there is no point in discussing it.
I dont want this to be a he said she said mess, so I will leave this thread. <p>POPS which ever you and fh decide, do it with out anger for all your children. <p>FH
stand strong and listen to every thing pops is saying before you react it will make the decision making process go alot smoother. DO what is best for your family as a whole and think long and hard about bringing a man into your daughters life you may not want there, weigh all the options. Because you opening a big can of worms by doing this.
PRAY PRAY PRAY It does help make you stronger<p>[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: mom of five ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He infact told me get rid of it or I am gone.. I had no choice but to say goodbye and protect my child.. Because as a mother we will die for our children<hr></blockquote>
MomofFive, That is incredible! You told your H in essence that the child was more important than how bad his pain was. See, you gave him two awful choices.
The ONE person who is supposed to help him was saying "GO!" When in reality he was wanting you to tell him "Stay, I love you and you are most important in my life"<p>Children are our borrowed gift from God. Our spouses come before anything and anyone.
It's thinking like that, that gets even healthy marriages to turn sour. Neglect of spouse in favor of childrens' needs.
Children grow and get their own lives. You must keep it together w/spouse or when children go whats left? Nothing in common between two people who are supposed to be each others friend and lover.<p>I feel for both pops and fh.
Their story is so sad and pops dissapointment and resentment toward fh is now peaking. He was asked to take, take, take. A person can only take so much before feeling like a doormat instead of a man.<p>Maybe you need to see that when a BS is asked to forgive and just "raise" this baby and forget, it's making BS think of two horrible things. Stay and have a reminder live with us, or go and destroy a family it took years to raise....to seperate everyone else because I have this baby now and it's too damn bad. Makes baby the all important thing. Makes BS wonder how WS can love a child not from their union. I'll tell you THAT is a lot to ask.
The very fact that you'd be ok with your H leaving so you can raise om's child is selfish mixedup thinking.<p>AND it hurts beyond words.<p>I think pops is in turmoil over not being able to have any say.<p>Perhaps they will soon agree on something.<p>BTW it's not because I don't care what happens to a baby.....it is definately what the baby represents in these situations. Sometimes the pain is too much to bear.<p>I am happy though that your situation worked out MO5. However I do see a heartache in having "4" parents in your childs life.<p>As for the orange on the table scenario....child just may grow up and say,"Hey! I don't want an orange on the table, none of my friends do that! That's stupid."<p>I am not being mean, just trying to explain, ok?
Debi

gem all stories are diferent
My husband had done so much damage throught the years, That I was the sole caretaker of all my children and yes they needed me. I put my husband first for many years and he continued to drink and cheat and be abusive, I do know what it is like to be a betrayed spouse, my husband was having an affair long before I got pregnant and and during the pregnancy and after the pregnancy and this was like A number 20 perhaps .. so the situation was different and at that point in time that is how I felt. and you know what that little girl has brought us all around and he would now die before he would give her up and he is no longer practicing selfish behavior or drinking or any of the other destructive things he was doing.
Our lives are completely different from this situation.
Yes in a good marriage I would have put him first, but at the time my putting him first, got me nothing but heartache and abuse. At some point in your life, you have to take care of your self and that is the decision I made. To take care of my self and yes My children.
But it took that shock to make him wake up and say OH I better change if I dont want this to all go away. so he changed. He loves our little girl and is always excited to see her running for him and playing with him.
WE made the right choice for our family. Had they all left then I would have had to suffer what ever consequences came my way. But it was my decision to make it and I did. I dont regret it.
There will be trials and such down the road and the road will not be easy, But since I do not have a choice, this man would now fight for his daughter if I made him walk, so in our lives, what was best was to let him be a father to her as well and act mature about it, He loves her too. SO why start a big fight and make life even more difficult.. thats all I was saying.
ok the orange was stupid analogy.. haha didnt meant to upset you with it.
and given the choice of what I see some bs's going through dealing with this when there husband has visits and all the fighting that goes on that children see and feel.. YES i am doing the right thing for that baby. and for us, life isnt near as stressful.<p>[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: mom of five ]</p>

In this day and age with all the divorces that happen I'm sure there are many many children who have oranges on the table(2 sets of parents).

gem
the orange thing is was just meant for wib, i am sure she understood what I meant.
as far as my children growing up and saying they dont want her sister in the picture, that wont happen, the children are in there teens and love there baby sister, after all they saw her growing in mommy as well, the girls are always mothering her and the boys, always want to show thier girlfriends, cause girls just love babies.
They help the baby when she needs help, they love on her, they relish teaching her new things and sit around and discuss what she could be when she grows up.
WOULD it be different if we were all angry and fighting and having this baby was causing all kinds of problems, Of course that is why we have worked so hard to do it in this manner FOR THE CHILDREN.
If she grows up and says; you kept me from my birth father, that would do no good as well, so you see for our lives, this was the answer.
I put my husband first for many many years, I never dreamed of being an OW, Every time he cheated, I worked harder on me and making him happy, WHAT i didnt know then it wasnt me, he had problems and no matter I tried he continued his destructive behavior. his A were my fault ad now my A was my fault. sonner or later we have to take care of ourself and that time was now. I wouldnt have been happy if I had aborted or given her away and for the first time in my life. I am truly happy with my husband and my life.
I thank God he helped me make the right choice for us. I think my children will benefit for it.
I dont think the destruction before was helping them.
I wish pops and full house, all the luck in the world. I hope they can make it, but there is a chance pops wont be able to accept and if he cant, then unfortunately he may have to move on.
I hope they get help and make other choices.
by the way it is sunday morning early and as I see my youngest d snuggled up nxt to daddy playing peek a boo I say YES life is good. This is a man I can fall in love all over again, because for the first time in his life, he has learned to put someone else first and be UNSELFISH.<p>[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: mom of five ]</p>

MO5, I didn't mean the orange represented what your d's siblings would think, I just meant she may well not like the different way she was raised compared to her siblings. You know? Kinda not belonging to one home. I can't imagine the fight when she picks who will walk her down the aisle. MM may expect to do it while your H will feel it's not right. All so messy. And d will have to choose. But that's far up the road.<p>As far as your h being selfish and betraying you all along and drinking etc....OH! I didn't know. How horrible. Did you two counsel? Did he want to leave for ow in his life? Why didn't you leave the abusive situation? Plan B? Before you knew it was plan "B"? Are your children ok now?<p>I wish you peace and love the rest of your days and am sorry you had bad experiences in your early young life.<p>I just think you'd all be better off w/o MM/W always in the picture. It seems it's always a drudge for all. That's just me and what I'd hate doing. <p>You know what I mean?
I am happy though it works for you w/o hard feelings for all involved.<p>You are right, all situations must work for the people it's happening to.<p>love
Debi

i am the 1st to realize that i am no saint. it seems that that comment comes mainly from women when they find out about my situation. men tend to say something that i agree with more and in fact i feel that this discribes how i feel all those on this board represent when they face this issue head on. and that is you have the heart of a lion. men and women alike. i personaly feel i am just a man who is trying to work his way through forgiveness and tolerance for the most devistating thing that can come into a marriage. <p>i have not said tofh that she needs to have sex or sleep elsewhere. i meant when she comes to bed she needs to do it with the attitude of being close. this includes cuddleing and sex. if the 1st leads to the latter then great. if not that's ok too. but don't come to bed and turn your back to me and sleep our life away.<p>after someone stays in their marriage when this nightmare is laid on them. whatever the reason they originally stay whether for the kids, money, etc. and try to work through to rebuild the marriage and not to throw in the towel to be called a "taker" is ludicrous. they have sacrificed so much of themselves to be able to think about staying. <p>yes i have in fact seen 2 attorneys for consultations on this whole mess. both gave me the same answer. did you know that if i were to divorce fh and she were to go back to work that i would retain residential custody of our kids with a 50/50 custody order and that fh would owe me about $300 cs per month. that is if we were to part ways on a permanent basis. we are going to see one more family lawyer together so we can discuss details and state guidelines for cs and a paper divorce.<p>many have been looking back to the issue of adoption as the main reason for my anger and view on POJA. you are wrong. i ask these questions, where was POJA when i was begging fh not to continue such a close friendship with om prior to her PA, where was it when she decided to have her A, where was it when she decided not to use any form of birth control, where was it when she decided not to abort early on, where was it when she decided to not place baby for adoption, where was it when she decided to continue to breast feed although she knew it was hurting me, where was it when she decided not to go back to work like she had planned ( at another place doing the same thing, i even researched it for her and found employeement opportunities) and now we are strapped financialy, and where was it when she has made in my opinion very little attempt do do the things which i have asked to help me through this. so as you see my opinion is she has not made any real positive descisions for us in the past year or so. i feel that the best thing for her to do now is to trust me as i was asked to trust her just prior to her A, blindly. it is her turn to go with my ideas for awhile. if that is a taker then i am a taker. and please don't go to the power thing, the this is not supposed to be tit for tat, or 2 wrongs don't make a right. i think that in her state of depression she is not capable of making sound decisions. she is just afraid of to many things.<p>she knew exactly the consiquences of an A. one week prior to her PA we discussed her mom & dad's life. her mom had an A and her dad could not deal with it. they divorced and both of them lived unhappy for 20 some years until her mom passed away. her mother was especially unhappy as her father was able to find another wife. when we talked she said she didn't want to live her mom's life. we were in counseling at the time. i told her then don't let it happen and let's work on our marriage. she denied that it was no more then just friends on a monday night and had her 1st PA on that following friday night. go figure that. she knew exactly what an A could do to a marriage and still made her conscious decision to procede.<p>more to come but computer acting up so i will post then write more so i don't lose this

i am the 1st to realize that i am no saint. it seems that that comment comes mainly from women when they find out about my situation. men tend to say something that i agree with more and in fact i feel that this discribes how i feel all those on this board represent when they face this issue head on. and that is you have the heart of a lion. men and women alike. i personaly feel i am just a man who is trying to work his way through forgiveness and tolerance for the most devistating thing that can come into a marriage. <p>i have not said tofh that she needs to have sex or sleep elsewhere. i meant when she comes to bed she needs to do it with the attitude of being close. this includes cuddleing and sex. if the 1st leads to the latter then great. if not that's ok too. but don't come to bed and turn your back to me and sleep our life away.<p>after someone stays in their marriage when this nightmare is laid on them. whatever the reason they originally stay whether for the kids, money, etc. and try to work through to rebuild the marriage and not to throw in the towel to be called a "taker" is ludicrous. they have sacrificed so much of themselves to be able to think about staying. <p>yes i have in fact seen 2 attorneys for consultations on this whole mess. both gave me the same answer. did you know that if i were to divorce fh and she were to go back to work that i would retain residential custody of our kids with a 50/50 custody order and that fh would owe me about $300 cs per month. that is if we were to part ways on a permanent basis. we are going to see one more family lawyer together so we can discuss details and state guidelines for cs and a paper divorce.<p>many have been looking back to the issue of adoption as the main reason for my anger and view on POJA. you are wrong. i ask these questions, where was POJA when i was begging fh not to continue such a close friendship with om prior to her PA, where was it when she decided to have her A, where was it when she decided not to use any form of birth control, where was it when she decided not to abort early on, where was it when she decided to not place baby for adoption, where was it when she decided to continue to breast feed although she knew it was hurting me, where was it when she decided not to go back to work like she had planned ( at another place doing the same thing, i even researched it for her and found employeement opportunities) and now we are strapped financialy, and where was it when she has made in my opinion very little attempt do do the things which i have asked to help me through this. so as you see my opinion is she has not made any real positive descisions for us in the past year or so. i feel that the best thing for her to do now is to trust me as i was asked to trust her just prior to her A, blindly. it is her turn to go with my ideas for awhile. if that is a taker then i am a taker. and please don't go to the power thing, the this is not supposed to be tit for tat, or 2 wrongs don't make a right. i think that in her state of depression she is not capable of making sound decisions. she is just afraid of to many things.<p>she knew exactly the consiquences of an A. one week prior to her PA we discussed her mom & dad's life. her mom had an A and her dad could not deal with it. they divorced and both of them lived unhappy for 20 some years until her mom passed away. her mother was especially unhappy as her father was able to find another wife. when we talked she said she didn't want to live her mom's life. we were in counseling at the time. i told her then don't let it happen and let's work on our marriage. she denied that it was no more then just friends on a monday night and had her 1st PA on that following friday night. go figure that. she knew exactly what an A could do to a marriage and still made her conscious decision to procede.<p>more to come but computer acting up so i will post then write more so i don't lose this

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>you have the heart of a lion. <hr></blockquote><p>Yes we do pops, yes we do. But what is it? I think why don't I just leave and grow alone with someone who loves and respects me?<p>You know what H says?<p>No one will ever give you what I can, I could have lost you and but for the love of God you stayed. I will spend the rest of my days loving you and telling you what you mean to me.<p>I trust his words and so very much believe him.
It's like the olden days when our love was new.
Believe me when I say his affair was all about him, and not me meeting his en. Purely selfish.
However if I was forced to share him w/oc/ow I would have definately left. It would have been too much to bear given ow STILL wants H!<p>Pops I wish to heck you and FH would agree and realize you two need each other more than anything else.
Godspeed to your love.
Debi

pops,
I went back and read many of your post, I can see you have a great deal of pain you have not been able to get past and I can see your anger at your wifes decisions.
It seems you will not get past grace being bi racial, I dont think the pain is less if she would look like your other children. YOU are angry and betrayed, But would you feel better if you divorced your wife? Would that make it better?
I am sure your wife did not breast feed that baby to hurt you, She is just a mother and she treated the baby as she should by doing what was best for her health and care.
Time does make things better, grace is young, she is still so small, Your feelings may grow and if they dont, then that is something you will have to deal with on your own, so as not to hurt that baby, because I know you know she is innocent, as you said, You love children.
I understand your need to do for your self what you need to do, I am glad you are at least going to discuss this together.
I dont know if you can transfer your ob to another state or not, but maybe it is a thought, if you truly want to work it out, I feel like I am hearing your at the end of your rope and dont want to try any more. I hope I am wrong, but if not, I do wish you happiness, and I hope you and fh will try and remain parents supportive of each other and work to make this as easy for the little ones as you can.
Grace is so tiny she will not be as hurt, but the other children will and you dont want them to feel this is that babys fault after all she is thier sister.
I wish you luck, I really do, I just hate to see so many hurt.
sometimes we dont see the big picture and I am sure fh knows what has happened and she regrets it. Hang in there, and keep praying.. if for nothing else peace in your life.

i am not afraid of fh entering another A or reconnecting with the om should visitation be his choice. if that were to ever happen again then without a doubt we would be finished. i don't believe that she would ever do this type of thing again either. but if so it would simply tell me her true feelings towards me and i could except that. i know myself and i could not live in a relationship were cheating was a continual thing. <p>mo5 and wib i want to tell you that i agree with you that if you are in this type of delema that all should go to whatever extremes are needed to assure a peaceful existance. i commend the both of you for your attitudes and efforts to make the lives of those around you as peaceful as possible in your post A world.<p>mo5 please do not assume that is only a mother who would lay down her life for her child. fathers would do this also. just think of the hundreds of thousands of veterans (mostly men) who have given their lives so that a ws can live in a place where they are not killed for having an A.

i am not worried if fh feels like entering into another A or reconnecting with om. if that is her choice she is free to do so and she will have crossed my boundry. this is no threat to her just a fact. i know that i am not the kind of person who could tolerate a continual cheater as a spouse. <p>joell the answer to your question is yes. fh has told me that if keeping us together meant me having an A of my own that it would be ok with her. she would not like it but understood why i could do it. i declined the invitation.<p>catnip i have given the idea of lump sum (black mail) thought for many months now. just trying to figure out the wording and other details.<p>mo5 and wib i want to say that i commend the both of you for your attitude on making the best of what you have. you both seem to be going out of your way to make things work.<p>mo5 for you to think that only a mother will die for her children is insulting. try thinking if the hundreds of thousands of men (for the most part) who have given their lives so that you can live in a country where you are not put to death for having an A.<p>i would like to know why the h of a ws has to be the daddy to the oc when the bio dad is taking an active loving, caring part in that childs life? why does bio dad have to be known as daddy blank? another insult. does the fact that your h stayed with you give him the right to become the childs daddy? i feel that if every bio dad has the right to chose to be a part of the childs life then they have the right to be considered the daddy as long as they meet fulfill this role in a responsible way. for fh to tell me that he is a sperm donar and i am her daddy is simply patronizing me (which she hasn't). if i was so important she would have created the child with me. <p>i feel that no matter what om choses it will be a united front for fh and me to work together on. also i am not of the mind set to take what i found in my house and just keep it (finders - keepers) he ahs the right to decide for himself whether he wants to be part of graces life or not. if choses to be in her life i will have to make the adjustment if my marriage is to work. if he choses to leave (which i feel he will as he is a coward who likes to sneak around behind peoples back) i have the choice of stepping in and filling that role in graces life. a choice i can make of my own free will. again don't think that grace is being used as a pawn i this. it is simply a matter of offering an adult the opportunity to step up a be responsible for his actions.<p>gemini,,, thanks for the words of defense so to speak. you took them right off my hunt and peck finger tips. and i understand what you are saying about your h's A being selfish and had nothing to do with his emotional needs. i feel this is the same for fh. i am glad that your marriage is working out. i feel that in my particular case i stayed originally for the kids and out of fear of being a single parent. it later moved to the realization that although there is a huge whole in my heart i still do love fh and i need to find a way to plug the gap. i think that i become frustrated when i consider the fact of her parents past history and talking to her just prior to her A about it. sometimes i tell myself that she made her choice and why should i try. the answer is always the same, because i still love her. i know that time does not heal but it helps as details fall into the gray matter of our thoughts. i know the road is bumpy and i am driving a slow moving steam roller.

Pops,<p>Just thought I would talk with you abit. I really don't have any solid advice to give you. Frankly, if I were in your situation I have no idea what I would do. So what you are getting are my thoughts to myself about what I would do or feel. OK?<p>I remember reading FH's posts about her counselors and how she felt they sided with her. I recall her several posts here, and all of them were her responses to what YOU were doing. Apparently, I misunderstood the breat feeding thing, because I thought she got a pump to solve your issues with that aspect. Even her post about your desires to see her lose weight didn't acknowledge your real issue with her weight. She got thin to have an affair, but now feels you are pushing her.<p>I think about all of these things, and I guess what is being lost in all of the discussions is that while FH consciously made all of the decisions for having the affair, unprotected sex, and all decisions since then, she has never really and truely taken responsibility for what she has done. She says she loves you, wants you to stay, BUT her actions don't really seem to mirror this thought do they???<p>Is that really the problem? She will admit to bad decisions, but blames them on other circumstances. But she fights all of YOUR decisions, doesn't she??? She keeps putting you in a corner where there doesn't seem a good decision. In short, she is not protecting you. So you feel you must protect yourself.<p>It seems to me if I were you and trying to decide what to do, it would be based on my W showing me that she was competent, that she was willing to do the hard stuff to show that she wanted me, that she would talk with me, help make decisions and OFFER ME some ideas on how to work out of this. Nothing would tee me off more, than for her to tell me she loves me, wants me to stay, but failed to stand up and TELL ME what she wanted in a marriage and what SHE was going to make my decisions easier.<p>I realize you are hearing from many people with a lot more personal experience in this matter than I. And that is true on both sides. But, it seems to me that one cannot POJA if only one person is coming up with ideas to accomplish a goal, or even ideas to decide on what the goal is. POJA is more than the right to veto the other's ideas.<p>Pops, I told FH to establish her boundaries, and I meant it. If her position doesn't become concrete you have nothing to work against or for. I think the two of you need to start offering concrete plans. You have offered at least one to her, concerning divorcing to protect some of the family income. If she doesn't want to divorce, then she needs to come up with some concrete plans that might accomplish the same thing WITHOUT the divorce.<p>In short, Pops, if I were in your place I would be looking for concrete action items from her, not just ILY's. If I were you I would be telling her to get with the program and start contributing ideas and solutions, or it would very likely be over. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] It seems to me while FH cannot make it up to you, she can start to take control of her life and start helping you with this decision. In short she needs to move out of her depressed state and become an active and protective part of this marriage.<p>Pops, this isn't advice. This is just my thinking of what it would take for me to really consider staying in this marriage. I fully agree with POJA, time, and other aspects of the MB concepts. But, to POJA it seems to me both sides need to bring something to the table to discuss. Further, this isn't just an affair, it was one where pregnancy was likely to happen and FH knew that.<p>So hopefully something I have written will help you crystalize your ideas, whether you agree with me or disagree isn't really important. So feel free to disagree, but most of all I think you need to really figure out what would make you stay or want to stay in this marriage. The past indicates that FH wasn't considering you in any way, but maybe there is a way for her to insure that she will consider you in the future.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Pops,<p>A lot of people might not agree but I think you are right to want OM to pay CS. It's his child and responsibility. If he doesn't want to be a part of Grace life and so far his actions shows that he doesn't then he has pay for his actions. (So did my H) <p>I know how hard it is for you I've followed your story. I truly feel you love your wife but you are still in a lot of pain. The way I've gotten over most of the pain was to realize I can't change the past. I can change the future and the way I look at it though. I know you are angry I still get angry at my H, sometimes I say something other times I let it go. I figured since I couldn't change the past there was no need to keep dwelling on it. I pray and hope you get there. I know I'm not living with a reminder of the affair so I can't judge you. <p>I hope you and FH are able to move forward with your lives and get over this. You both are in my thoughts and prayers. <p>Unsure

Pops wrote:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> i would like to know why the h of a ws has to be the daddy to the oc when the bio dad is taking an active loving, caring part in that childs life? why does bio dad have to be known as daddy blank? another insult. does the fact that your h stayed with you give him the right to become the childs daddy? i feel that if every bio dad has the right to chose to be a part of the childs life then they have the right to be considered the daddy as long as they meet fulfill this role in a responsible way. for fh to tell me that he is a sperm donar and i am her daddy is simply patronizing me (which she hasn't). if i was so important she would have created the child with me. <hr></blockquote><p>
Pops, The H doesn't have to be daddy to the OC. It is a choice. My H made that decision, he wanted her to call him daddy. I presented my situation to a child psychologist. He said biology makes a man a parent, not necessarily a daddy. Seeing as how our D would be living with my H and I in a family setting he felt my H would be fufilling the daddy role to a much greater extent than the xOM and suggested that she call my H daddy and the xOM something else. Of course I knew it would be useless to even ask the xOM to let her call him something other than "daddy" hence the term "daddy XXXX". To me, and I fully believe to my H, it would be a great insult to my H if she didn't call him daddy. He has told me that he loves her as much as our 2 sons, he treats her no differently, and in my opinion has made many more sacrifices for her than OM has so why shouldn't he be entitle to be called daddy? Again, Biology does not make a man a daddy. Some children spend more time with a babysitter than my D does with the xOM. Sure, he may be loving and caring of her and take good care of her while she is with him but when comparing both mens roles in her life my H is definately her daddy.

Pops, The H doesn't have to be daddy to the OC. It is a choice. My H made that decision, he wanted her to call him daddy. I presented my situation to a child psychologist. He said biology makes a man a parent, not necessarily a daddy. Seeing as how our D would be living with my H and I in a family setting he felt my H would be fufilling the daddy role to a much greater extent than the xOM and suggested that she call my H daddy and the xOM something else. Of course I knew it would be useless to even ask the xOM to let her call him something other than "daddy" hence the term "daddy XXXX". To me, and I fully believe to my H, it would be a great insult to my H if she didn't call him daddy. He has told me that he loves her as much as our 2 sons, he treats her no differently, and in my opinion has made many more sacrifices for her than OM has so why shouldn't he be entitle to be called daddy? Again, Biology does not make a man a daddy. Some children spend more time with a babysitter than my D does with the xOM. Sure, he may be loving and caring of her and take good care of her while she is with him but when comparing both mens roles in her life my H is definately her daddy.
I cant say it any better than this, I agree 100 percent. My husband wants to be her daddy and calling oher man dadd!**** is just to help distinguish a difference for her while she is young, thats all it isnt an insult to any one, OM knows we do this and is ok with it. <p>POPS,
I am sorry if I offended you about the mother dieing for her children statement, Yes I am sure you would die for your children, as would most fathers, I didnt mean that they wouldnt, I just wanted you to know how strong the bond the mother has with the baby , that you say you dont have, To understand why it was so difficult to give her up for adoption or abort. Thats all FH cant turn her feelings off for that baby, even though you would have wanted her to. <p> My husband loves being little ones daddy, and wouldnt have it any other way, in fact he would be insulted were I to suggest something different.
But other man, told me he understood H was daddy, But he said he cant be any thing butt daddy as well. So I cant force him to do different. But he is in no way insulted by our decisions, he is grateful we allowed him to become part of her life and supports me in decisions for D.
I know your hurting and I am sorry,

Pops<p>That statement of yours where you said that our men have died to protect the right of a WS such as mom of 5 to have her affair was totally uncalled for.<p>Nowhere did I get the impression that mom of 5 was implying that a mother was superior because she would risk her life to save her child.<p>A better argument would have been that it is sad that the maternal OR paternal instincts of a WS to protect their existing child(ren) were not there in their conscious mind to stop them from having an A, but they sure were present when it came to a newly born child that was the product of an A.<p>Joe

Pops<p>On another note, your idea of getting a divorce to avoid having your finances factored in the child support judgement against OM, may also be what you need to get you on the road to healing. I say this because in a symbolic way your M prior to FH's A and pregnancy is over, and any M between you and her would have to be a new one where both of you will have finally sent the demons of the A back where they belong. Granted that it is an unorthodox way of achieving marital recovery but if it works out for you and FH, who are we to differ?<p>Good luck to both of you.<p>Joe

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>where was it when she decided to continue to breast feed although she knew it was hurting me, [/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>pops...<p>You had me all the way until I got here. What's up with that? I don't get it. Why would breast feeding hurt you? Is it seeing another person intimately attached to your wife? Just curious why this would be an issue. Not trying to be a brat or anything, just genuinely curious.<p>Also, I do completely understand your attitude because of your indepth explanations. I also understand your need for your pound of flesh...I'd like restitution as well. I just don't want you to make that the be all and end all and ultimately paint yourself into a corner having to have OM involved in your life when it is obvious that you can erase him from your lives and move ahead. I do understand this is about power and control...it's a bitter, bitter pill to have other people change the landscape of your life without any respectful consideration of what you want and need. <p>Gem certainly eloquently described protocol.<p>Personally, if I were a knocked up WS and my husband asked me to give up the OC for adoption, I would have gladly done this, without argument, for several reasons. The first, to minimize the adjustment and difficulty my husband and family would endure, to make the future less complicated, to give the child a loving two-parent home with no social stigma attached to him/her, to make amends to my husband and prove to him I want the marriage and to begin a clean slate. My penalty for my sins would be to be the ONLY one enduring the pain of my personal loss.<p>But then, that's just me. I gave up a child in 1969 and never regretted it...especially after I met him and knew how wonderful his life had been. I was given the gift of finding out how he fared all those years, putting my chronic anxiety to rest. Maybe my maternal instincts aren't as great as the women here...that could be.

catnip<p>such a way with words.<p> I dont think your less of a mother for feeling the way you do, You were just able to do something that was right for YOU and a child at the time and made a decision reguarding that. Thats all I did I made the decision that I felt was best for me and my child. <p> But my husband didnt ask me to adopt a baby out.. because he knew me and that I couldnt live with doing that. But when he asked me to abort, he thought the baby was his. He just didnt want any more kids. <p> I feel strong and confident that I made the best decision just as you did.