jl,,,, you are right as i have told fh many times the her attitude and actions speak volumes now instead of words. <p>i feel she has made very few decisions in more then 1year to help our M. it does seem to be the case that when she doesn't like my ideas she shots them down but does not offer any altenative plans. this is why i feel that she needs to show that she trusts me and will stand by me in order for us to move on. for the most part she dislikes my plaans out of fear. fear of the unknown. <p>you are also right in the fact that there is most likely nothing she or any ws can do to make up for this type of breakdown in a marriage. they can only try to show a bs that they have seen the error of their ways.

Pops:<p>So, what's the plan to rebuild love in your marriage?

unsure,,, thank you. i too have some good days when i say nothing. they go back and forth. everyone keeps using the term pain which i quess is true but i feel it is more a realization of the disappointment i feel in fh. yes i also know i can't change the past along with the fact that we can't hide the past here either. to tell you the truth i am really good when fh and i are alone. but when grace is there and that is most of the time the reminder is there also. theom hasn't shown any interest and i honestly feel his only interest will be that he will want something for his money. if this is the case then he will not stay around long as his heart will not be in the relationship with grace. my problem is i love grace in the same way i love my grandchildren. which is a different love then for my own children. she is not part of me and i don't have that natural bond. don't get me wrong she is as cute as a button in fact she rolled over for the first time last night as i was typing one of my many posts. she was on the floor in my office with fh.

pops<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>i would like to know why the h of a ws has to be the daddy to the oc when the bio dad is taking an active loving, caring part in that childs life? <hr></blockquote><p>In some states, the BIO father has the right to sue for paternity and if he doesnt want to walk away he doesnt have to .. so the others may not have that choice.
Because the LAW gives the bio parent that right and if I argued or did not go alone, I would end up in court and spending a fortune I dont want to spend. And who am I that I have the right to decide if My daughter can not know her bio father. I would just live more lies on top of others. <p> as far as living in a country where our men fight for our freedom we are all lucky.. Not just the knocked up wives. as catnip so eloquently put it. what a shame there wasnt some law, for my husband having as many notches on his belt as he could get during our marriage, I dont have a lot of sympathy for him. while My situation is different from yours.
I do understand your situation, mine is different so I had to make choices for that situation. Thats all , Not meant to offend you. WE just offer advice based on our lives and you can take what you want from it,and leave the rest.
Being a single parent is not easy.. but I have done so and while not easy.. it is not immpossible.
Your views and opinions are so hard.. I can see why fh has such a hard time knowing what to do.
Maybe in time they will change and you will be able to work them out.
I dont have the opinion you want so you knock it down, thats ok, I am a big girl.
I love this baby that came from an affair and cant say I would change anything , she is a blessing and has healed alot of hurt.
I just wanted you to know people can recover from these things... thats all...
I dont think if you force fh to do something she doesnt want to do, will make your love grow it will hurt it.

wib,,, i never said that biology made a man a daddy. and psycologist schmycologist. if the om is loving, caring and tending to every need when he is with his child, like it or not he is the daddy. in your house your h has the right to be called and be that childs daddy. also in your house (AND THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY) the term daddy xxxx sends a very impersonal message about who the real daddy is. sort of manipulative to me. you could try referring to om as your father instead. I know that the way this sounds is as if i am telling you how to run your house and that is NOT the case. these are just my opinions in general on this subject and i don't mean to direct them at you specifically. sorry if i came off to aggressive.

mo5 and WIB,,, wib again i am sorry for my statements in the last post. the way mo5 explained it it makes sense to me. that is all i can say on this. my appoligies

tmcm and mo5,,, i do undertand the motherly bond that a woman has when she becomes pregnant. i also understand the difficulty with the abort and adopt scenarios. that is why although i asked her to consider both options at there respective times i have not dwelled on them and do not dwell on them now. interesting side note here, fh has told me in the past that if she could have forseen the anquish this would cause she would have made a different decision.<p>tmcm,,, you are correct in that i view our past marriage as dead and for us to remain together we need to start anew. i have no great driving fotce to celebrate our current wedding anniversary. just me

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip/K:
<strong>I'm telling you directly that without a real plan in place to rebuild your marriage, where both you and fullhouse will feel like valued members in this relationship, you will fail. And if you fail, it WILL affect all your children.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>And the people of God said Amen and Amen.<p>The angry outbursts have got to stop. Every betrayed spouse has a "right" to be angry. However, what we do with that anger often determines if our marriage will survive because there is only so much punishment that anyone (BS or WS) can and will tolerate. I know, I dished out some pretty hurtful stuff at the beginning, but I was done with the anger in a couple of months. I told my H that I liked who I had been before D-day and that I would not, could not stay in the marriage if it turned me into a raging bytch. I will not let someone else's mistakes/sins turn me into a person I don't recognize and don't like.<p>In their first counseling session I understand that the Harleys almost always ask a couple to get the LBers (angry outbursts is a lovebuster) under control first and foremost. Doesn't matter how much you are pouring into the love bank if you've opened a gaping hole in the underbelly of the love bank (LBers) and are draining it out as fast or faster as you can pour it in. <p>Pops, the ugly truth of it is that the BS is often the one who has to do more work to repair the marriage. It isn't fair and I don't know why it works that way, but it certainly seems to. Decide what you want to do and get on with it.<p>Anger management, anger management, anger management. Get some books. They are a cheap form of therapy. Also you might consider getting something on cognitive therapy and really "working the program."<p>FullHouse good luck on your diet. It is a big task but worth it in the long run. Don't do the weepy stuff around Pops. Put on your best face and present yourself at your very best as if you were dating again.<p>All the best to both of you. I am sorry to see so much pain.<p>MJ

catnip,,,, the deal with breast feeding was that fh had breast fed all our kids. when she was breast feeding the child produced from a union with another man, watching her bond with that child (although i knew it was inevitable) was painful for me. i felt that thiusands of children are raised on bottles from birth and are as healthy as an ox. why not let grace be one of them and allow fh and me sometime to reconnect. also with bottle feeding all 7 of our kids are big enough to feed a baby a bottle and birp her. this would have given fh and myself more time to be alone. breast feeding they could not help with and demands that grace is present with us full time.

pops, appology accepted. I have certainly not been trying to tell you what "should" be done merely explaining(defending) my own situation. And as MoF says so often, we are trying to do the best we can. It will never be a perfect situation but right now it works for us.

i dont have alot of time right now, grace and i are driving up to the mountains to visit my sister.
but i just wanted to let you know that grace does take bottles, and i am not just sitting in the corner like a comatose person that cant make any sense. dont think i am not making any sound judgements. there are alot of fears and i dont want to jump into any thing to quickly so that another mistake is made. i really am taking my time thinking. i do listen to pops, and i dont walk around looking like i havent had a bath in months, i do take care of myself. and through all of this i have taken care of all my children and pops has also. i dont feel i ever neglected them, i will say maybe a week i was not up to par as a parent, but i always was there for them and always will be, that is just how i feel. my love is true for pops and i know time will only proove this, i feel i am doing much for our relationship. sometimes maybe things dont move as fast as one wants but i am doing my best and i want the best for pops. i have been trying to give pops and me time without grace, and the older she gets the easier it becomes. as you know the first few months of life the baby pretty much is attached to mom. now she does well and i can leave her with her siblings or friends so that we can do things, in fact i have set up times for us as surprise for pops but his schedule has made me cancel. i will continue when i get back, pray i make it, my directions arent great and i lost my cell phone--oh well.

have a good safe trip,
and I am sure none of us doubt your mothering capabilities.

FH<p>I hope you had a great trip to your sister's and that you are ready for the usual routine.<p>Check the following from pops:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>tmcm,,, you are correct in that i view our past marriage as dead and for us to remain together we need to start anew. i have no great driving fotce to celebrate our current wedding anniversary. just me</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I take it that you have fears that if you and pops get divorced that he might then turn around and use his new found freedom to dump you. Your right he MIGHT just do that BUT he can still do this with or without a divorce and your approval. So staying legally married to pops does not insure you of anything with him.<p>Don't think that pops does not have the same fears about you using the divorce to move on with your life and away from him. Because despite beign a middle aged woman, there are other men out there that might want to be your future lover/husband and he knows this to be true (your A proved that).<p>It SEEMS to me anyway that your old marriage, pre-A and OC, is like a corpse that has not been buried and is stinking up the house. Pops can smell the rotting carcass but you are wearing the denial gas mask of the WS who's telling him that in time the stench will go away. Sure the stench will go away but chances are so will pops.<p>You are actually not losing anything by not contesting or approving the divorce, but you might just gain your husband's love back by symbolically putting a legal end to the old marriage. Then when he proposes marriage to you, then you know for sure that the demons of the past have been sent back where they belong and he will gladly celebrate the new marriage's anniversaries with you as the years go by.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe

Thank you MoF, I did have a safe trip, a little scary raining and clouds so low couldnt see past the windshield, but took my time and got there safely, my sister is down for the week from Washington state, so it was nice to see her, we are very close and its been very hard not to have her here.
fh

TooMuchCoffeeMan,
what did you mean that you hope i am ready for the usual routine?
fh

Hi FullHouse.<p>What I meant by the usual routine was the everyday chores.<p>Joe

FH
Glad you made it ok, I know it isnt easy traveling with a baby, I have done so many times and can think of a hundred other things I would like to do.
Did grace travel well? MY little one doesnt like to travel, unless you have snacks.
Wait till she is a toddler, wow I forgot how busy toddlers are, Maybe when I was 20 it didnt seem that busy lol, she keeps us on our toes.
Enjoy your visit with your sister, I have 4 sisters and a brother and it is alwasy nice to get away with them and spend time together.
Plus you get a break with the baby, my family always takes over when they come see, her little feet dont hardly touch the floor.
my niece had a baby so she may get a little competition.
You love pops you will find a way to work it out, hang in there.

mof
i timed it well, she slept all the way up and all the way back. she is a very good baby.
fh