ULA,
I agree with JL, and he says it quite well. If she can't or won't change ( and prove that she can / has ) why would you want to be with her any longer? We are all afraid of the unknown, but even worse than "what will I do without her," may be " what will she do next." <p>She has already agreed to no contact and broken her word. If she has no plan to guarantee no contact and show she is serious, how can you ever go back?<p> Let her come up with the plan this time. Maker sure she knows it must be good enough to restore your trust. If she won't come up with something, how serious can she be? <p>It is so easy to discuss, and so hard to do. I hope you find the way to do what needs to be done. I hope she does also. <p>SS<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

<img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>Gosh, ULA... *sigh* I'm at a loss. Find your strength and hope in Christ. Don't let Mrs.ULA hold the keys to your heart for another moment. She knows you are too good of a Christian man to leave her. She knows your love for her is endless. Obviously! Still, you are human too. We all have our limits. HUGS and PRAYERS to you & the family! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

I&#8217;m sad to say that last night was probably the second worst night we have ever had together, d-day being undisputed number one. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
I asked her to come up with a plan to regain my trust and her response was that I would never trust her again so why try.
It turns out that this is all my fault because I had the audacity to look at her e-mails. I have taken &#8220;everything&#8221; away from her by nosing around in her business and I am entirely responsible for the boys&#8217; estrangement.
To me this sounds like she hasn&#8217;t come very far in accepting real responsibility for her behavior. Am I wrong?
I am also guilty of chasing &#8220;all&#8221; of her friends away throughout our marriage. How different our memories are! In the two instances she cited she is the one who first pointed out to me that these women were either untrustworthy or selfish and she didn&#8217;t want to travel with one again and didn&#8217;t enjoy listening to the other one carp about her own troubles. Now all that she remembers is that I discouraged her from seeing them again based on what she told me.
I know I can&#8217;t &#8220;fix&#8221; her but apparently I can&#8217;t even negotiate with her right now.
You know cruelty escalates sometimes and I know that I said some things that I did not have to say so I have to share the blame because I couldn&#8217;t control my anger. I admitted to her that I have told my older sister (she found out about her H&#8217;s long term A about three years ago and she didn&#8217;t even know that we were aware of it) about our situation a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to get everything out on the table and this was guilt I had been carrying since I confided in her. My reasons for talking to my sister were to see if possibly there was a familial deficiency of some sort, which made us vulnerable to attaching ourselves to wandering spouses and also to talk about our children&#8217;s problems relating to their parents. She has an adult son who has developed serious emotional problems that seem to stem from not being able to forgive his father. Yes, this was not necessary but I felt a need to do this. Now W has said she will never attend another family function with me and all I am looking for is sympathy by including others in our private lives. There is probably a grain of truth there.
My sister has promised me that she will keep this knowledge just between us but my W refuses to believe she is capable of that. My sister is the most God fearing, honest, loving person imaginable and if she can&#8217;t trust her she can&#8217;t trust anyone.
We now have a long way to go and not much time to get there if we want to save this marriage.<p>Just Learning <p>We have talked about the problem of adjusting to retirement and have questioned other retired persons and are aware that there are new and unexpected situations that will arise. I was sure we could recognize and take care of them until last night. Now I guess we have to relearn how to communicate because there was a lot of damage done.
My resolve remains strong in that she must now find a way to try to regain my trust. I&#8217;m too tired to continue working alone and that is how I feel.<p>God Bless<p>ULA<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Usedlongago ]</p>

ULA:<p>Once again, this is very hard news to hear, because your situation was such an inspiration to me and dealing with my W's 11yr betrayal. We seem to be doing better lately, but a conference in OM's hometown that his work is sponsoring an event for is coming up in August and my W is planning to go. I can't due to a conflict.<p>I have been feeling better able to trust her lately, then your news came up and my doubts are returning. I guess the point is that none of us should let down our guard completely, huh?<p>Just wish that life wasn't like this.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Now W has said she will never attend another family function with me and all I am looking for is sympathy by including others in our private lives. There is probably a grain of truth there. <hr></blockquote><p>Now THIS makes me !MAD! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If there is a "grain of truth" to that statement ... it is smaller than any other grain of truth that affects your marriage. This is plainly HORSESHYT ... AND... even if you were looking for sympathy ... so WHAT???????? Is that amoral? Is sympathy for YOU not allowed??? Is your needing support and understanding from a close and safe family member (your sister) somehow a larger insult to your W's integrity than HER OWN ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!<p>I am so damn mad right now ... I better go back to lurking [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Pepper [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

ULA,<p>All I can say is that a person that can have a 27 year affair, then a second affair, and still claim to love their spouse has a capacity for self deception that is truely remarkable. Given that is the case, it is not surprising that she feels all of this is her fault. I mean if it wasn't someone elses fault how could she have done what she did.<p>It will take years of counseling to even hope that she sees the world as you and most of us do. <p>I can also see where she is coming from right now. It is true that no one is in her corner save you, and you spied on her. So she is defending herself the only way she can, by blaming everyone else. Self deception is after all her speciality. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Frankly, you would be a fool to not have kept an eye on her, even more so since she was in fact communicating with this man and apparently the EA was still on. Her own behavior means that you were RIGHT to do what you did.<p>As for telling your sister, I can understand her fears all that know of her affair have turned on her, except you. Notice that you are getting the blame and the grief but you are the one she turns on? She is a bit self destructive, but also you are the one closest too her. So in her mind it is your job to deal with her betrayals and yet protect her. You cannot do that.<p>ULA, your are right she is going to have to come up with a plan because that means she has finally faced herself and what she has done to many lives.
She is a sick woman ULA and I am not sure love will cure her.<p>I do hope that somehow you can find a way and that somehow something finally touches her heart and she really sees who her friends are and who her enemies are.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

No I don't believe you were wrong or that you are wrong to EXPOSE your W's affairs and bring them into the light of day. Somehow they were going to come to the light because sin cannot remain hidden. That's just how life works...<p>I think you are right to surround yourself with support from your family members. I think your wife is wrong to hold onto resentment and be trying to blame you for her clandestine behaviors...<p>She has been the source of MUCH unhappiness for you over the years and is not taking responsibility for it. This is one of the top Rules for recovering from affair(s). The Rule of Protection--do not be the source of your spouse's unhappiness...<p>Another thing that probably makes you doubt yourself or question the timetable of everything could be your health? Did you mention something about your health a while back? <p>Try not to worry yourself. You have a lot left to give to your family and to this world. Don't give up on yourself. You have reached the end of yourself which is a good place for us to be because it forces us to trust God.

Pepper, temper, temper!
I love your posts and words of wisdom. You are a nice person.<p>ULA, I think your W is still "on the fence". Only you can decide on how you are going to handle this. <p>I hope God gives you guidance.<p>ember

PS, I can see the indecision of letting OM's W know. But think, would you rather still be blind? <p>I would rather have the truth and my choices back. Are you sorry you know about your W and son[OC]?<p>I feel it would be a kindness to let her know the truth. I just feel that living a life of deception would hurt more.<p>Good luck. <p>ember

ULA,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm in over my head on most of your issues, but as a BS I can tell you I wish the XOW's husband had told me if he suspected her affair w/H. I still don't know when he knew, but he knew XOW and I saw each other often as friends<hr></blockquote><p>Mirror your words Jenny.
Do you hear ULA?
love
Debi