It has been one week since my H's daughter was born. He has been busy taking care of his 14 month old son who was sick and changing and caring for the new baby. He is up all hours and getting very little sleep. He just retired after 27 years as an officer in the AF. He isn't looking for a job and is caring for OW and babies. He still comes over here to do things. He co-signed on a house loan for me. He is so mixed up. He has been in therapy for 1 1/2 years and still hasn't figured it out. OW says he is fine and perfectly capable of taking care of himself. I wish he would wake up and see how manipulative she is. I have been understanding and patient for too long! I'm ready to start playing hard ball! He couldn't seperate from OW so now he has a dose of reality. It is freaking him out. Those are his own words.

I am curious, why you seem to feel sorry for him ? He is a grown man who fathered two children with someone else, He left you and moved in with ow and now has a life with her and is caring for his children.. I would say He made some choices and should suffer the effects of them...
I wouldn't feel bad for him, Just tell him, you made the choice deal with it.

I agree with Mom of Five...what about you and what is best for you and your needs and the difficulty you have endured since he did all these terrible things and screwed up your life and your marriage??? What about you?

Catnip =^^=

Hi Angel
I understand you feeling sorry for your H. Even though he made those choices. You see just like I see how he's being manipulated and how he's allowing this.

I just found out it's possible I could be in the same boat. When Xow first found out she was pregnant again she told my H it was her H child.

Now she's telling H. it's his child. Boy the manipulation doesn't stop. But you know Mom and Catnip are right these are the choices our H made so they have to live with it.

I'm leaning more and more towardS divorcing him. I can't stand by, and watch this drama any longer this is something that is beyond me.

You see this kind of thing on soap opera's, never thought this could be happening in real life but it's real.

I never in my life, had something like this to take place. I'm to the point I want no bother from no man, I rather be by myself.

Angel how are you?
Please keep posting we want to hear from you.

Dear Angel,

Wow. How long have you been married? I am assuming quite some time since you have teenagers. (I went back and read your other posts.) It sounds like he has been riding the fence for quite some time. Have you read up on plan B? It sounds like he is being allowed to live both lifes for way too long. I am very pro-marriage, but there is a line. I know. My H crossed it. But he left and was living with ow#2. I found out that his plan was to do what your H is doing. Go back and forth between the 2 of us. The difference is she was not pg nor did she have an oc. I was pg with our 2nd child. (He had a previous PA, EA that produced oc). I lived my life without him hoping and praying (for a while at least) that he would come to his senses but knowing it may be too late. Well my daughter is now 3 months old. I am trying to put the pieces of my life together and it is hard....but you know what? I am truely happy! He seems to now be coming to some of his senses. He called and invited me to his co. picnic and asked me if I wanted to be his "roommate". But it is too late now. I have already filed for divorce and hopefully it will be over soon. My point is simply to trust in the Lord to pull you through and He will. You do not need any man in your life to be happy.....the only one you need is God. I had to consider what my actions and what my stbxh's actions were teaching my children. It was not worth it. My girls deserve more than H has turned out to be. Please be lean on God and He will give you all the strength that you need either way. I pray your H will leave the fog and if he doesnt I pray for comfort in the decisions that you must make.

Love
bw

Thanks for the advice and concern. I don't feel sorry for my H. He is the one who changes the dipers and gets up in the night with the baby. I don't want him to have it easy. OW has gone back to work in her "high profile" job. H doesn't have a job yet so he is taking care of things for her. We have been married 27 years and he just retired as a Col. in the AF. He worked on a project with her several years ago. He could of been court marshaled if the AF found out. I thought the OW would be a vamp but she is rather plain and has a missing arm. My H has always been one to take care of poor souls. Even if she is 15 years younger she isn't as attractive. Now he has really screwed things up! Pardon the pun. He just co-signed on a town house for my son and me. It is very nice and my son can't wait to move. He comes over and we do things together. I think if there weren't children involved he wouldn't have left home. He feels like he has to help her. From what he has said she doesn't seem like the motherly type. It doesn't come naturally. What makes me mad is that if seems that she is being rewarded for her bad behavior. She knew my H was married. She wanted a baby with him. She thinks it was ok because our marriage was in trouble ( I didn't know that!) And they go to church together as a couple. Her family and friends support her and welcome my H and want them to be together. This is wrong!!!! I do trust the Lord and have found comfort in prayer. The house worked out better than I ever thought. My friends pray for me constantly. Even though my support system is far away I feel the power of their prayers and concern. They check up on me often. I also have friends at school where I teach. My therapist also prays for me.
So, I joined a gym, bought a house and have wonderful sons who tell me how much they love me and appreciate all that I do for them. I am loved! I just wish my H. would realize that he loves me. He thinks he can't love me because if he did then he wouldn't have done this to me. I gave him a book about unconditional love. He is still attracted to me, the chemistry is still there, but he just can't see how it could work out and our marriage be better than ever. He was afraid to try. So, I'm taking care of myself and my sons. I try not to call his cell phone except if I absolutely have to. When I ask how he is or what is going on he always says how many dipers he has changed. I guess he gets what he deserved. But I don't want OW to have him!!

All I can say is this deep. I pray for you also.

Thanks for your concern and prayers. I know my husband does care but it is hard for him to take care of everybody. I have been trying to not ask anything of him. He has offered to help but I guess I just want him to take over without me asking. I get tired of doing it all myself. My son and I put together a hutch. We didn't know we could do it but we did. It looks great! I know things will work out but I just get frustrated and impatient! Let me know about your situation. Thanks for caring.

HI Angel

Do you get the opportunity to read basic concepts?
Have you purchase Surviving An Affair if not, do so. Me I've gone in the dark, I stopped contact with H. I use to call worry about him and the situation he's gotten hiself into.

This was draining me, I would always initiate contact with H. At first H initiated contact when he left XOW. I would call, H would call back. H said all the right things, to get me back were I was. What was missing no action behind his words.

Now H doesn't call me at all. I'm doing the same not calling him so I've gone dark.

Here is something you should read, try this CAROLKH method, just try and see no excuses just try do this for you and son.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880;p=1

Work on Angel, let H be for now. Try having no contact with him. You are giving him his cake and Ice Cream like I did. My H didn't have to make a choice, he had the best of both worlds so does your H.

In so many words, they are saying to us they can treat us any kind of way, and do what they want. We will be on the back burner waiting.

Fix yourself up, bleach your hair, buy new clothes if possible. Please don't LB or no relationships talks. If you can find a mediator to use as a go between do that.

Try something different Angel for a change.
Ask your self this question , How much you want to save YOU ,and your Marriage? if you do, take the necessary steps to enhance Angel's life.

You don't have to be a DOORMAT because he co-sign for you to get a house, he may have did that out of guilt. Love and take care of Angel. ACT AS IF,YOU HAVE MOVED ON Take care keep us posted vent here only not to H. BE BUMBLY FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT

I read CAROLKH's posts. It gives me hope. I can't see the situation changing anytime soon. OW has a nanny, handyman, and lover. WS feels like he needs to be there to take care of the OCs. I think it would be good for him to think other men were interested in me though. He tells me often how attractive I am and how nice I always dress. I said if I can't have him then I need someone. I have been putting myself first. I joined a gym, opened my own bank account, get manicures and pedicures. I love shopping and decorating a new home is exciting. I have read the Divorce Busting books. I also post on the web-site. I do believe in a 180 so I guess I should try being mean. My problem is that I am too nice and patience. I was trying to be understanding of OW and wanted things to work out for her but without my H. That is way I allowed him to go over there to take care of his son and get to know him. Look where is got me, another child and my WS moved out. I have told him I hate her! I said I would like revenge. I have been told that up to the Lord. So, I don't call. He does notice me. He does care but he can't have it all which he was trying to do. So, I go to the movies alone, my son and I go shopping, eating out and movies. We go to the Smithsonium. We do fun things together. When my husband asks our son to go with him my son says "No" or "Can Mom go too?" Anyway, I am trying to go it alone and still take care of myself and our son still at home and have fun. It is hard to do.

Hi Angel
Doing a 180 isn't about being mean it's about taking charge of your life it's about feeling good about you.

You can go to a movie you don't have to volunteer information, don't talk to much don't let him know your every move.Be supicious you have any friends go out with them.

Nothing wrong with being nice but there is something wrong with being a doormat.Do you have family near you tell people about your plan.

OW will get hers I felt the same way and still do at times focus on you continue reading 180 planB incorporate both.

You live in the DC are I'm in Baltimore
Good luck.

My support system is in Texas. That is where I am from. My father doesn't know, Mom is is a nursing home on Hospice care. I talk to by best friends weekly. They are very concerned and want what is best for me. My brother and his wife know only because my best friend's husband called and said I needed family at this time. I needed those closest to me to know and support me especially since I'm so far away. This is out of character for BF's husband because he is a quiet farmer. She is the outspoken one. Anyway, I have now confided in some teachers that I work with. I have the support of my sons and I go to therapy. She stresses for me to take care of myself, which I have been trying to do. I am blessed to have the love and support from so many. I am rewarded at work by the love that is shown by students at school. They all build me up. It really helps me and keeps me going. I continue to read the books but I have spent so much time and effort into saving my marriage that It is hard to redirect my focus and go on to other things. Thanks for your advice.

Hi Angel

I do understand, and beleive me you will be on the otherside oneday. Meaning it won't hurt as much.

I'm almost there I've gotten to the point, I don't call H unless he calls me no matter how bad I want to talk.

H has to be the one who initiates communication.
Sometimes I'm on an emotional rollercoaster it doesn't last long.

I'm finally growing up from this and not allow my emotion to take charge, You will be there also.

I've been told recently, I should have been divorced my H, by a memeber on another site then I had one to tell me follow my heart and get a divorce. That's not what my heart is saying right now.

I did talk to an elder women on my job, whom seem to be a very wise women, she told me don't listen to what alot of people are saying because they speak to us out of there own pain.

You will find some that will be sincere, she told me about 2 couples that was separated for long periods of time. One separted for 22yrs the other for 9 yrs they are back together.

Not saying they waited for each other,but when the time was right they reunited and only God knows that.

You keep taking care of Angel and your sons everything will be OK.

This week a friend that we have known for 27 years contacted me. Her husband worked with mine. We have had sporatic contact but do send Christmas cards. Lately we have been e-mailing. My husband has confided in her and had given his change of address, OW's house. Anyway, he had talked to her and she contacted me with concern over this situation. She may be the answer to getting him out of the fog. She had written him 2 letters asking "what the hell are you thinking!" She told him about losing his relationship with his sons. Anyway she has assessed the situation and sees things the same way as I do. She said that when he spoke he sounded depressed. He said he met a woman and she wanted a baby so he gave her one and the second one was an accident. He didn't sound in love or excited about these children. We both believe that he feels that he has to take care of them. He said OW was bothered by the letter she sent him. The truth hurts. Well, we talked for 2 hours and she plans on contacting him again. We won't tell him we talked. She doesn't want to be a mediator but just try to help him assess the situation. She is worried about him and what he is doing with his life and our family. She told me that I am beautiful inside and out and if my H leaves me then somone else will recognize this. Her H left her long ago with little contact with their son.
I live in Springfield, VA. I forgot to say that last time.OW went to the Home Depot where the sniper shot the lady last Monday. H and OW go to that Home Depot a lot.
Thanks for your concern. We will get through this!

Hey Angel
Glad to know you have someone you can talk to.
My H and I been communicating he tells me sometimes he loves me sometimes he doesn't because of the things that I say.

Sorry for taking so long to response PC was down
but I will keep in tounch ok.
Watch out for the sniper he's in your area
I live in Maryland so we are careful to.

I'll get back to you ok.
Oh keep talking to your friend that could be your answer to your prayes.

Thank God the snipers were caught. A cheer went through the school when it was anounced that they would have recess after 3 weeks of not having any outside. It looks like the move into the townhouse will be happening next week. There is lots to do! H helps some but not enough. He said if I rent a truck we can move everything except the furniture and I will get those moved by a moving co. He remains tied up taking care of the children. It sounds like he does all the work. He is living frugally. I don't want him to be enjoying his new life starting over. I want him to always be reminded of us and what he is missing. Our sons have no mercy for him and hate the OW. They have met her and find her unattractive and well, they only have ugly words to say. Keep talking to your H. I hope things work out!

Hi Angel
I was wondering, how are you? Haven't seen you posting in a while what's been going on?

I pray you are in the best spirits let me know how things are with you OK.

I am busy moving. H has been helping but always has to pick up OCs from day care. By the time I get home from school he has only an hour left. I hope to be sleeping at the other place tomorrow. I have too much stuff so it takes a long time. I will be off line for awhile. H told me yesterday what he has disscussing with this therapist, he doesn't understand why he is so turned on by me. He doesn't think he should be because it gives me false hopes. I said there is nothing wrong feeling the way he does. I said I guess I am now the OW. H said, "Huh, role reversal?" I pray he will get in touch with his feelings. He e-mailed me saying that he knows I want him to come back and have everyting be as it was and he would if he thought it would work. He doesn't, not with the children he made. He feels obligated to take care of them. I said it could work if we had a plan worked out by therapist.
I'll update more later.

Hello, first let me apologize for the length of this. I always seem to write these long books. I guess it's because I sit in an office and never talk to anyone all day long!

Anyway, I hear your pain. I've been in your shoes. And I know how sometimes you want to fight and sometimes you feel like it's a lost cause. My relationship is not yet "there", but we are at least working on us now and not just concentrating on oc. That consumed us for way tooooooo long. There are several people on here who have multiple oc. And although it makes things more difficult, this in itself is not as big a problem as it might seem. The basic pain and resentment is the same. The pain and betrayal happened to us twice, but it is still very similar to one oc.

I won't advocate contact or no contact. It is an individual choice in each marriage. There are several ways to deal responsibly with the sin of creating that oc AND be responsible to the oc AND heal your marriage. There is no RIGHT way; it is individual. Regardless, it can be done. It should be dealt with very similarly with 2 oc as with 1 oc.

Your husband wants contact with oc. You sound okay with that. If you are not okay with that, then you two will have to get on the same page. If you really are, then look around this site and tell your husband some of the stories of contact that you read. Show him how it can work. Don't let your husband use the fact of 2oc or trying to do the "right" thing for them as an excuse. You can do the "right" thing by 2oc and still have a wonderful relationship with your wife of 27 years. Here is a little about our story.

My husband and I had what I thought was a terrific marriage. His affair stemmed from the fact that he is just a friendly guy. I have always cautioned him about having female friends, but h just couldn't get it through his head that he needs a wall of protection. He would say I'm not doing anything wrong. I never said he was. I said he was going too far and putting himself into the possibility of a bad situation. I would say Look it's like if you're an alcoholic, you just shouldn't go to the bar. H and ow talked as friends for months, then one friendly encounter went too far. He ended up having sex. I think the first time was just lust taking over the situation. But once h and ow had broken into that taboo area, it continued. They made plans to be together and to hide it. She thought that she had found a new husband, that he loved her and was committed. He cared about her, they were friends, but it wasn't love. He was having fun sex. He also had no responsibility to her so it was escape from our humdrum life. Then a few months later, she told him that she was pregnant, and the bottom dropped out of that fantasy.

She was so excited that they were going to have a baby. My husband asked her to get an abortion. And I suppose that it was at that point that her new husband to be fantasy started disappearing too. She opted not to abort, she said that she thought a baby would bring him back to her. She still didn't realize that it was just sex to him. My husband hid it from me for awhile. But he showed more and more signs and more stress. I started checking up on him and discovered some things. Then I followed him. I watched while he bought diapers at a store. He got back in the car and drove. I got caught in traffic. I didn't know where he was going, but I kept driving around and happened upon him as he was walking into a house. She was at the door. She kissed him as he handed her the diapers. She was about six or seven months pregnant (so she didn't need diapers yet, but that's just like him!) I pulled into driveway, sat there for just a moment until he turned and saw me. His knees buckled and then I put it in reverse and started pulling out. I just wanted him to know that I knew. He started towards me with her pulling him back and I left. Several hours later, he came home.

I was devastated, but I was tough when we talked. He told me the whole story. He said he was sorry, didn't love her, wanted to make it up to me, etc. Then his tone changed as he started talking about his child that would soon come. He had always wanted a baby and we had tried. I had just miscarried about a month before (while I was suspecting and trying to catch him cheating). Hubby was sorry about affair, but he already loved the son to be. I hurt tremendously. I finally said yes, take her to doctor appointments (she had no car), give her money, be at the birth, and be a good father. So as months went by, he worked out visitation with the baby. He would go and play with him and just do daddy things everyday. It took a lot from us. I hurt everytime he left, but I felt like this was his duty and his business, not mine.

Forgiveness came, but I didn't know that he needed an even better wall of protection. Since he was not hiding anymore, he was not as stressed and he freely showed feelings about the child and towards ow. As mother of his first born, she thought she again had won my husband. We got pregnant again, but it would never be the same as with this child. When oc was about six months, he told ow that I was pregnant and she threatened and attempted suicide, conveniently so he could save her too. He began to pay more attention to her and spend more time with them. He fell into the old trap and she got pregnant.

But before we knew that he helped her to move two states away to live with her parents- to be more stable. He went and visited three months later and confirmed pregnancy. I miscarried again. We decided that this was crazy and that we should be having the child. He told me that he would make everything okay, that he loved me, that he wanted it to work, etc. I am stupid and evidently pretty fertile. So a few weeks later, we were pregnant again. OW still wanted my husband as her own and she soon said if he was not with her, then he would not see either child. He was of course upset by that, knew we were dealing with an unstable woman, and we found out she was married (had not seen him for years) and that man would be legal father so my husband could not put his name on bc without ow consent. What a mess. And I of course am taking a back burner. I felt like our relationship meant little to nothing. He felt like he was trying to protect and do the right thing by children. Three months later, oc#2 was born.

He and I found an apartment for them all to live in and he brought all of them back here to our city. With my agreement, he moved in with them to try to dupe her and get his name on bc. This was our attorney's idea as he said we could not do anything legally without her consent. I understood my husband's motivation, but it hurt like you wouldn't believe. He told me he was there for kids and that he would not be with her. Well, he might have intended it that way, but they were one happy little family in every sense. He lived with them for six weeks. The emotions were horrible. Four weeks into it, I miscarried for the third time.

At that point he woke up, he told her that he wasn't going to do this anymore. That he wanted to be a good daddy, wanted to be on their bc, but that he was going home and put his wife first. She begged and pleaded. She acted crazy. This time he stood strong. She finally gave in. She finally saw that we were WE. She said she was going back to her parents, but that he could have the children every other month. WE helped her move back. WE bought her a car and a phone, etc. WE agreed to pick up 2oc in two months. She called about an hour before we were to leave and said no. This happened three times and WE finally filed for paternity and joint custody. Now fast forward through much hassle, we got full custody of 2oc. She didn't want those kids anyway, they were a tool to get my man.

It has been a huge change for us, not always good, not always bad. We have been through a mess and are still cleaning up. We did not do things the right way. We sacrificed way too much to do the right things for kids. But he finally put us first and our relationship is in tact and better than before.

You CAN go through 2oc and even through hubby living with ow and 2oc and still come through it together. He has to make the decision that he wants you. My husband wanted to do the "right" thing for 2oc, and he finally stopped believing that he had to be with ow to do that. At that point, WE did what he thought was the "right" thing.

I am not suggesting that you get custody. I am suggesting that you can have contact with oc and still maintain your relationship as top priority. It is a decision that HE must make, but that you stick with together. Anyway, look at some of the folks who have contact (like Stacia) and tell your husband about that so he will know it really can happen.

(Again I am only pushing contact because your husband seems to think this is the way and you seem okay with it. I think it would be much simpler and probably better for the relationship without contact.)

Then when your h sees that it is possible, that it can happen, ask him if he could handle coming home, making your relationship priority, and both of you having visitation with oc. It could happen. OW's whims or personal needs are NOT part of visitation. He doesn't see that yet. When he puts you first and makes visitation a legal situation, he can have you and do the "right" thing too. Don't give up.
God bless.