Hi there,

yes I'm basically new here but read alot and post a few, I need any kind of help or insight to cs support questions, determinating paterinty???? giving up right to baby. H had a now oc on the way I need a heads up, are there offices to call ?? please any or all info , especially in the state of PA, should i file first ??????? any one else out there in same situtation?????

thanks a million

Jill

Jill: Hi! I thought I'd answer what I could b/c the boards are usually slow around a weekend. Anyway, my H had an affair and there's an oc involved. (OC is about 20 months old and I just found out 30+ days ago.) He had paid her child support (or blackmail money) for about a year or so and then stopped. She filed for public assistance and he got the summons a couple of months ago. We do not live in PA but you can probably put in your search engine PA child support and get lots of info.

We have an attorney for various reasons but we've been told by the attorney that it may all boil down to a paternity test (which is ordered by the state in our case).

As for child support - they sock it to ya for about 20% and that includes any overtime your H may work. We also own two houses (one we live in and the other is a rental). He may have to sell the houses to me in order to keep that from being considered in the CS. It's crazy.

We did ask the attorney about giving up parental rights and apparently we can give up custodial rights but can't give away the child support duties. By giving up his custodial rights he can also include that if OW ever marries or remarries then the new hubby can adopt her kid.

My H has chosen not to have contact although we haven't finalized any of the process yet as we are just going through attorneys now.

I am sorry for your situation. I have only been in it for a little over a month now. It's HELL! There are many women on this board who are wonderful and I hope they can also help you.

I still struggle with a decision - any decision. I have chosen to forgive him but don't know if I can do the whole oc thing and don't have a clue at all as to where this affair will leave us a day from now or years from now.

You will read many posts on here from people who have been in recovery with either contact or none for years. They are all special people and great resources for the emotions you are going through.

Take care of yourself. You will need the strength - PRAY often - you will need those prayers too!

Angelia

Jaggerslady,
Here in PA, you will make out better if you file for child support before the ow does. Please do that post-haste. Where in PA are you? I work for an attorney in Tioga and Potter Counties, and am currently enrolled in law school in Harrisburg. I can probably tell you anything you want to know about PA child support law, because that is what I primarily do as a law clerk for the attorney. Let me know what you want to know. If you want, I can even run child support figures for you and let you know approximately what your h will be expected to pay.
Good luck,
cdcollins

Dear CDCollins,

Thank you so much, I'm so confused, possibly trying to make marriage work but so much on my plate.Me and my H and two kids now live in NJ, but OW in PA. I keep hearing that if I file first it will be better off for my kids, does the law take into consideration he is still married with two kids????? As far as i know OW is on Access with I think is thru the state, , even though it is most likely my husbands I told him there needs to be DNA done????But I don't know who pays, how long it takes???? I'm not sure where this is all going to end up but I can't sit back , I need to know answers. Right now he is unemployed was laid off in August, H recieves 1900 a month, I've been with him 13 years, married 8, and two kids from him, I usually only work part ime but the last couples of weeks i've been working more. Is there a way I can find out if she filed yet???? but no DNA test yet, will the state make her do a DNA since my H does not know if it is his or someone else????? what are the processing?????

thank you so much
Jill

Jill: Have you tried a "free" consultation with an attorney yet? Ours did the first consultation free and they were VERY helpful even in that initial consultation. The attorney should be able to give you lots of specifics but of course they won't do anything until you pay them. But, it might give you some answers.
All of my answers would be from FL so not sure if they would be helpful!
Take care of yourself!
Angelia

Jaggerslady,
Ok, first, Pennsylvania will be the originating state, so most likely PA laws will govern your case. If OW is on the Access card, she will have no other choice but to file for CS. The state will force her to file for child support in an attempt to recoup some of the cost. You need to file for child support before she does because it is the ONLY way that your children will "count" at all. Otherwise, they will not even care that you have two children to support as well. In order to file for child support, you will need to start a "faux" separation. In my case, I simply went to the post office and told them that H and I were separating but still sharing the same house (to make things easier on the children), and that I needed a separate address for my mail. I then went to the local domestic relations office and filed for child support. At that point, the domestic relations office was forced FOR THE FIRST TIME to take my children into account in the calculations. Ow went from getting 55% of my h's pay to getting less than 10%. I encourage you to file first because it took a lot of arguing with the hearing master to cconvince them that MY share should be taken out first because MY children were born first. I would not have had that problem if I had filed first to begin with, which is why I really urge you to file before she does. That way, you won't have to go through the bull of fighting with them for your rights to cs. What they will do is put your claim first and then calculate ow's based on what percentage she would get with three children figured in instead of one. Based on the figures you gave me, with your husband making 1900 per month, and giving him a standard 20% deduction for taxes, and giving OW an imputed income of $800 (which is standard of what they say someone ccan earn if they do not have a job) your h would be paying 360.55 per month. If ow has child care expenses, they would add that on to the total. If you filed for child support for your children, you would probably get right around $400 per month, and ow would end up receiving right around $200, which would save you about 160 bucks per month. Now keep in mind that these are just rough figures. If you can tell me where in PA ow is located, I would be happy to refer you to an attorney, if it is in an area that I know somebody in. My main advice to you is get moving and file for child support to circumvent her stealing you blind. If you have further questions, please feel welcome to contact me via private email at blackbird_fly1@yahoo.com. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
-cdcollins

Oh, and as to DNA: Nothing will happen in that regards until you get the child support papers. When you get them, your H should refuse to pay and request a DNA test. At that point, the collection agency will set one up. They will probably take a cheek swab sample from your h in NJ and a similar sample from OW in PA and then send both to a lab for comparison. At the time of the swab, they will take a photo and thumbprint of your h and of the ow at her location for identification purposes. The results take about 2 months. The bad news is that support is retroactive to the date she filed, so your h will be accountable for whatever support accumulates during that time, if indeed he is the father.
-cd

Hello Cd,
First of all thank you so much for your info. I have been sick all week but on Thursday I will go down and file, I hope it not too late but I need to do it, even if she did file first I will stick up for my kids!!!!! But I will be filing here in NJ, b/c this is where I'm living and plan on. She is from Monroe county, She supossibly due on the 17th C-section was the last we heard But she has no way of contacting us all she knows is H PO box, as far as we know she doesn't know where he lives or I think we would have recieved something in the mail, And I have since had my phone number changed. So will they be able to locate him??????? What about the baby's last name does she have the right to give it his??????? with or without paterenty?????? and if she does can we fight that?????? What about giving up paterental right's????? does he have to do it when baby is born????? six months after?????? And is there any way I can find out if she has filed????/ thanks again
Jill

PS
Happy new Years

Jaggerslady,
I hope you are feeling better now. In answer to your questions:

Ow will probably not be able to file for child support until after the baby is born. Yes, they will be able to find him. They will track him down through his social security number, and every job that he works at from now until the child support order is finished (usually when the child turns 18) will be required to report his whereabouts. Your loverboy is now a marked man. Sounds ridiculous, but it is true. After the child support order is in effect, PA will garnish wages from any job he has in order to fulfill the amount due. She will be able to give the child his name if she wants to. Pennsylvania gives women the right to choose any name they want, with or without permission from the father. However, I am not sure about whether she can put it on the birth certificate without his approval until after a DNA test. It used to be that they could, but I have heard rumors that that has changed recently. As to signing away his paternal rights - why bother? It will gain him nothing. He will still be responsible for child support even if he gives up his rights to the child. I would suggest that he NOT give up paternal rights, as then you can use the "threat" of visitation/custody as a bargaining chip later. (To those who view this tactic as cold-hearted, please spare me the lamenting. I was one who welcomed the oc into my life and home and I truly cared for her. This ain't personal, just makes good practical sense). If I were him, I would not give up any paternal rights unless she finds a man who is ready and willing to adopt, and even then only after an appropriate adoption motion has been filed. Otherwise, your h will end up with no rights and the never-ending duty to pay for a child he has no legal say about. If you file for child support yourself, chances are that your case will beat hers to court, and your child support order will be well-established by the time hers is filed. Which is the smartest thing in the world you can do. Remember to tell the Domestic relations office in your location that you are separated, and be sure to give them separate addresses - even if one is just a mailing address. And when he gets the child support hearing papers from her case, please have him request a DNA test. Even if he is one-hundred-and fifty percent sure the kid is his. We have had others on this board whose h's were just certain the baby was theirs, and who ended up later discovering that they were not the fathers. Do not allow him to sign any paternity acknowledgements whatsoever, because if he does, he is stuck with supporting the child as its legal father whether or not he is truly the biological father.

Let me know if you have more questions.
-cd

CD: Please explain this....I am most interested....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would suggest that he NOT give up paternal rights, as then you can use the "threat" of visitation/custody as a bargaining chip later. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please please give your thoughts!

Angelia

It has been my experience that most ow want the MM to be a part of the child's life, but completely freak out by the idea of sharing the child with the MM's wife. Sometimes when the MM and his wife present a united force and file a custody or visitation action, it is enough to scare the ow into playing nicely where child support is concerned. The one thing that few ow wants is for the mm and his wife to actually participate in the child's life and to exercise the parental rights they are entitled to. Generally (with some exceptions) ow find the idea of the child having contact with the MM and wife so very painful that they immediately back off the strong arms tactics where it comes to child support. Ow that do play child support games usually do it because they have all the power and all the control, and I firmly believe that while it is not appropriate to use a child as a pawn, it is appropriate to fight fire with fire. And generally, ow are so confident that the wife will never want to have anything to do with the child, they feel they can ride roughshod over the marriage without any fear of the wife wanting to be involved in the child's life. It is my opinion that it is a great tactic for forcing the ow to think twice about forcing the child support issue. But you have to be careful about it. Can't use it as a direct threat as much as an implied one.
-cd

CD: I agree with you about your thoughts on what the ow probably wants although I have never spoken to her. However in the case of state mandated child support as is our case through department of revenue that doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

Thoughts?

Hi angelia,
A little known fact is that any woman can avert the child support guidelines by simply agreeing beforehand to a lesser amount. Even when the state compels an action in child support, the mother of the child has a right to stipulate to a mutually agreeable amount. At that point, the parents just go to the child support hearing and state for the record that an agreement has been reached. The child support hearing master notes the amount of the agreement, an appropriate court order follows, and it is a done deal. The problem is that very few ow seem to be willing to negotiate a fair and reasonable amount. There have been exceptions here, though. Ohbratti1 is one that I know of, and I believe Momof5 has worked something out between her and MM, but I can't remember for sure.

-cd

I guess we would have to wait for the dna test though right?

Let me tell you a bit about this. OW was married at the time of conception and birth. We do not know at this time whose name is on the birth certificate.
She and her H were NOT an intact family. The summons we received was due to her filing for public assistance. She filled out all the affidavit stuff with the exception of him filling out some denial of paternity forms.
Anyway, all the stuff has been served to both my H as the possible bio-father and to her H as the legal father. The attorneys are trying according to case law in FL prove that her H is legal father and should leave it as such. I don't think that's gonna work and I think it's gonna boil down to dna test but who am I to argue with an attorney.
Anyway, they have subpoened the birth certificate (the child is not named after my H) and her divorce decree. The attorney says that in a divorce decree there must be some mention of the child (existence or no existence of one)and if there is not then that brings about another problem.
The attorney is also requesting that this not be in front of a hearing officer but in front of an actual judge since there is case law which supports the legal father thing and they would have to get a guardian ad litem.
My H has not had any contact with her since the papers were served. Do you suggest we both speak to her together to discuss a possible arrangement which includes of course my being a great step-mom in order to alleviate some of this $$ issue. Or, do you suggest we would wait until the results of the DNA testing. (at this time it's not set for us to go in front of the hearing office until February - got postponed due to attorneys asking for new info.)
Also, would you suggest that the attorney do any of the filing for visitation or custody for us - I guess I'm asking if you think I should talk to the attorney about this possible tactic.
Sorry to steal this other thread but I'm curious about your ideas. I like this last one that we could talk to her in advance about a child support $$ arrangement. In the beginning when he was served she pretty much said too frickin bad, etc.....She needs the $$ ,e tc.... You know..
Thanks and have a SUPER HOT date tonight!!!!!

Angelia,
First of all, do you have your own attorney??? If such, I certainly hope that your attorney is advising your h to contest the paternity testing. You have the right to say that since the child already has a legal father, your h should not be subjected to a paternity test. A mistake I see over and over again is guys lining up to take paternity tests without a court order telling them they have to. The only way I would suggest that your husband voluntarily take the DNA test is if he truly wants to be a part of the child's life. Now, of course it is sucky bad and not fair at all to stick the ow's ex with the child support bill if indeed he is not the father, but the interest I am looking after here is YOURS, not his, not ow's. YOU are the one asking my opinion, and as such, my opinion is geared towards what I think is best for YOU the betrayed spouse. (In my official capacity as law clerk for an attorney, I have given completely opposite advice to women in ow situations, sadly enough. But business is business, ya know) Also, there are so few times in which a wandering spouse actually gets the opportunity for an "out", so to speak. Additionally, some people hold the view that if the ex-husband gets stuck with the bill, then that is his problem b/c he is the one who picked the crappy meandering wife. I do not share that view, but it is out there. To boil it down, in my opinnion, your h should refuse to participate in DNA testing unless there is an actual court order requiring him to do so. If your lawyer has not contested the DNA testing yet, give him instructions to contest it. Your h has every right to contest it under what is called the "presumption of paternity" laws which basically states that a child born of a marriage (or usually within 10 months of the marriage) is legally the child of the marriage regardless of biological paternity. IN states that use presumption of paternity, the only way the husband can deny paternity is if he can prove that he had no access to his wife during the time of conception - and this usually only works when guys are overseas in the military and come back to find their wives pregnant. Anyway, if your lawyer is not discussing these tactics with you, I encourage you to prod him a little on it, or get yourself a new attorney. Don't sit back and let him lead your husband to the DNA lab like a lamb to slaughter, unless you do indeed want to be a part of the child's life. I have to wonder, angelia, why your sweetie is answering any questions or lining up for the cheek swab. A good attorney would advise him to file a "motion for protective order" that would prevent the other side from making him get the dna test, based on presumption of paternity. And for heavens sakes, if he is not officially proven to be the father yet, don't go offering the ow money!!! The most I would do if I were him at this time is make a snide comment along the lines of "If I end up having to take a DNA test, and I end up being the father of this child, I hope you know that my wife and I are going to push for custody." That ought to get her thinking, and it is not something that your husband is not entitled to say. But other than that, don't have him even admit to sleeping with her unless he is officially required by the court to answer those kind of quesitons. Summons my a$$. Tell your lawyer to start with the defensive tactics immediately. Don't know what he is waiting for.

However, as to your other question, if you do in fact want to include this child in your life (and remember, I was one who did do just that, and while it was hard, it was rewarding until my marriage fell apart for other reasons) please have your attorney begin the lengthy process of starting a custody action. The sooner after birth you are involved in the child's life, the better chance you will have at actually obtaining joint or even primary custody of said child. Stacia_lee is a good example of how that works out.

Anyway, give me a little better indication of what it is you and your husband want out of this, and I'll do what I can to answer questions.

-cd

CD: Hope your date was great....Anyway, I have been waiting all night for you to answer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, do you have your own attorney??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His attorney (ours since we're in it together and we paid our of our checking account <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> is definitely doing all the stuff you mentioned
(I don't know why I wasn't more clear that WE hired the attorney and the tactics I mentioned are their suggestions)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "presumption of paternity" laws </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">although I didn't use all the legal terms they have filed two motions....One is the paternity one you are talking about which presumes the legal father is responsible. That one is filed first with all the requests for the birth certificate and her divorce decree which was not final until after the baby was born. The baby was born in March. Their Divorce final in the following December.

Then in a separate motion they have filed to dismiss the need for a dna test. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> motion for protective order" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The attorneys are very good - we went in just asking about child support and they went to town as soon as we filed the retainer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have to wonder, angelia, why your sweetie is answering any questions or lining up for the cheek swab. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CD, he didn't offer to have the test done at all. His original intent was that he was denying paternity. We didn't know about all these other motions until we saw the attorney.

As for the CS comment </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the beginning when he was served she pretty much said too frickin bad, etc.....She needs the $$ ,e tc.... You know..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and your comment in this last one... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And for heavens sakes, if he is not officially proven to be the father yet, don't go offering the ow money!!! The most I would do if I were him at this time is make a snide comment along the lines of "If I end up having to take a DNA test, and I end up being the father of this child, I hope you know that my wife and I are going to push for custody." That ought to get her thinking, and it is not something that your husband is not entitled to say </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In that case, my H got the paternity suit from the state department of revenue which has its own law firm and when he got the papers he freaked out. He had tried for so long to hide it from me because he really thought we'd be over. anyway, all that aside, he went to her and said, look, what are you wanting so we can make this go away and I can go on with my wife. The affair had already ended and there had been no contact and no under the table cash given to her in over a year. So, yes, he admitted it to her but no one else was present. Not a real smart move on his part but he was trying desperately to keep it out of the light.

If all this is true about the presumed paternity and her ex-husband, wouldn't the opposing attorneys already know this and why are they going after my H anyway? Surely the attorneys for the state would know the law, wouldn't you think? The ex-H of hers was given the same paternity suit as my husband but his filing said that if he didn't respond within so many days then the state would presume that he was okay with the biological testing being done to dismiss his part in the case. Our attorney said that was crap and that the H couldn't just be served and that was it.

So, I do think they are looking out for our best interest because your information and what they are doing is right on target.

My H really doesn't want anything to do with oc. He has said that all along and hasn't been in the child's life thus far. It was her decision to have the child and he feels his only responsibility is child support if he is in fact made to be the father through dna. The child is about 21 months old. Even the affidavit she filed said that he had not been a part of the child's life for birthdays, introducing it to family, accepting it as his own, etc....
My question about the custody and visitation thing was purely about the $$ for child support.

I am sure this woman doesn't want me or our kids in her child's life. I was only asking like I said about the visitation to lower the cs payments. It's an incredible amount of $$ and we have kids at home although it's not a situation where I could file for cs even through faux situations. My daughter is from a previous marriage and we had started the adoption proceedings for my H when this s*** all hapened. So, no cs action there...and the other child we have is his son from a previous relationship which we are raising. We choose not to get any compensation from the mother of his son because we can raise him fine and it's much less of a hassle. So, I couldn't even begin to go for any sort of faux situation because his kid isn't mine (biologically) and my kid isn't his (adoptively <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh, and one more thing... So, if all the legal motions fail (and the attorney said yes, that can happen but they will try their best not to) and he takes a dna test and IF it comes back as his then where does that leave us for cs? Any options besides the state mandated "shared" $$ amount.

Thanks for your WEALTH of information

Angelia

amgelia,
SO VERY GLAD to hear you have some on-the-ball attorneys. It sounds like they are handling the situtation in a fantastic manner! As to the other side, and why they would not just go according to state law - I'll explain that when i get back on late tonight. I am going out of town for the day, but will write again when I get back. Just took a quick peek this morning and was so delighted that your attorneys are pursuing this aggressively (and doing just what I said they ought to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Will write more tonight.
-cd

Thanks...Have fun today - yes, please write tonight....the other side is what scares me!

Angelia

Cd,
Happy new Year to you!!!!!!!!!!!! You really do deserve it , your info and input have been beyond.But once again I thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
I' am going tomorrow morning to file.So since we are out of state should we just wait for the papers from her to come in the mail???????? If we decide not to have contact w/OC can he give her sole custody, where as she can't bother us for anything?????? I agreee with you to fight fire with fire, but I do need peace in my life too, I too know it's not nice to play with child but getting even sure sounds good to me!!!!!! After all they do say"Don't get mad, get even" and that is something I can live with. And if we decide together to visit it willbe thru me, and I'll be there in her face just smiling like the cat who ate the mouse. Mostly i feel like I don't want OC around whatso ever, but the other side of me say let's try it first and if it's too hard for me, I don't have to see it anymore or in my life and if H can't understand that then I'm not as imporatant to him as he says!! What do you think about that.I'll get back to you tomorrow after I file and I can't wait

Jill

CD: Please don't forget me!!!!! Thanks.!

Angelia