There's no need to be rude. Finger-wagging and looking down my nose at you, no. Asking a valid question, yes.

I know what it's like to be a single mother, doing everything alone, and I think it's wrong for a father(regardless of how the child was conceived)to try to short his child financially. If the mom is taking fully responsibility for the physical, emotional, and mental upbringing of the child the least the father can do is meet her half way on the financial note.

Not too many mothers have the luxury of being able to be a SAHM, do you know how much daycare alone is for a baby? Why should the father be allowed to leave the mother 'holding the bag'? My D's father tried to do that to me when we went to court, he tried to lowball the amount of CS he was going to have to pay but it didn't work. He didn't care that I was working my @$$ off to make ends meet and pay daycare. He was more concerned with buying new cars and toys, but tried to tell the judge he was so broke.

When the CS did finally begin to arrive, I was VERY happy. My D deserves to have nice things and get spoiled every now and then, but it's not like we're living in the lap of luxury because her father pays CS. My fiance and I both work so we can afford the finer things in life, we work hard to maintain our lifestyle. If my ex was so broke and worried about having enough money to pay his own bills after CS, maybe his W ought to get a job as well instead of just sitting at home being fiscally unproductive. It only makes sense, but it didn't happen that way.

As far as I'm concerned, his finances and lifestyle maintenance are not MY concern. My ex, and any man or woman that steps outside their relationship, can save the 'I'm so broke' sob story - get a second job if you're so broke. That's what I did because I didn't want to be broke and wouldn't allow it. I'm dealing with the consequences of unprotected sex as is my D's father just on different levels.

I know I may get flamed for this post, but that's ok. I feel very strongly about this subject because I know what it's like to have someone try to run from the responsibility they were half in creating. And, BTW, if the mother is on welfare receiving cash and food stamps, the state takes the CS to pay back what she's receiving in benefits. After the state gets their money if there is any left over they send her a check for the remainder of the CS.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, that wasn't my intention.

Tara

Tara: you obviously don't understand the intent of CD's posting. This is all about treating EACH child the same. See, the CS system only worries about the child that there is a court order court order for. They are not interested in legitimate children within a marriage.

So,in your eyes, it's okay for the children born of a legitimate marriage to suffer because the man or woman stepped outside of their marriage to have an affair? Why is your daughter any more important than mine? They are all innocent children.

If the child support system were FAIR and equitable to all the kids involved then there would not be a need to try and work around the system.

And by the way, I've seen many folks on welfare driving nicer cars than me and wearing much more GOLD than me. This is not about getting a second job - many of the WS on this board already have second jobs....That only increases the amount of CS that the ow can get....why? because that's more dollars in her pocket according to his annual wages. The more money you make the more they use it to calculate. And every three years, the ow can go to court and get MORE!!!! The system again, doesn't see that as money he needs to support other children at home. Again, the system designed by people, doesn't CARE about your children at home.

You can't lowball CS...they go right to your employer and get those financial records.

No one here is saying that a man (or woman) shouldn't be responsible for paying child support- if you read the postings and there are many not just in this thread - the preverbial thought is that the system SHOULD take into account ALL the children born of that man not just the one from the affair.

Rock on CD!!!! You continue until the system changes in offering folks suggestions on how to work around a corrupt system. The people in the white house and the legislatures sure can figure out how to take trips on our tax money and spend money that is way unnecessary so you can certainly tell the common folk how to work the system.

And Tara, by the way, you chose to have the child. This is the year 2003 - and there's lots of ways not to have a kid. And the first one is - don't have sex with a married man (or a married woman). JUST SAY NO!!!!

Moving on,
I'm not being rude. Just telling you why I believe that this is the only effective means by which to protect the interests of the children of the marriage. Why should one child be entitled to a percentage of the father's pay while the system completely ignores the others. All my wonderful plan does is protect the interests of the other children and give them their share. It is not shortchanging the oc. And I definitely feel that fathers have a duty to support - I just feel that the duty should extend to ALL of the children.

As to being offended, it takes more than that to offend me. Don't mind my abrasiveness. I tend to be very agressive when it comes to this stuff.
-cd

First off,

Angelia, do NOT get me started on the subject of how I got pregnant or why it was by a married man. You don't know me, my ex, or the nature of our relationship. And, yeah, you can try to lowball CS by offering an amount previous to the court date and settling on it. Trust me because he tried to do it to me but the judge said no way.

And do you know why the system is so 'corrupt'? It's because there are so many pricks that try to dodge CS altogether that they have to go after the men they CAN track down to at least attempt to keep some people off of welfare.

I chose to keep my child, she was an oopsy-baby not a planned baby, and I was unaware of the fact that he was married as I believe I said in my first post. I never wanted his M or W to suffer, I didn't know that they existed or I would've never gotten involved in the first place. Regardless, we have a child together now and she needs to be taken care of as does his other child with his W. I love my D and would do anything to make sure that she never wants for anything, so if you're trying to make me feel like a tramp for getting pregnant or keeping her you can keep the condemnation to yourself. I'm not here for that, I'm here to gain knowledge and understanding of my situation from a different angle. Thanks.

cdcollins,

Thanks for being understanding, I expected you to flame me. Like you I work in the legal field, not family law, and have used my job/situation to research the CS laws also. Good luck with your law degree.

Tara

And another thing, Angelia-

You mentioned that you have seen people on welfare driving nicer cars than you and wearing much more gold than you. How do you know they're on welfare? Did you go up to them and ask how they pay their bills? Or did you just assume that everyone driving a nice car and wearing a lot of gold is a abusing the welfare system? Typical stereotype.

Tara

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: cdcollins ]</small>

Uhhhh, moving on, I just reread your last post and picked up on some things that I missed the first time around. If you wanted to be a SAHM, you probably should have picked a guy that was able to offer you such a luxury. And as to the wife going out and getting a job - it's really none of your business what the wife chooses to do, now is it? The purpose of child support is SUPPOSED to be to provide for the needs of the child - NOT to increase the standard of living for the mother. Do you really believe that you wouldn't have to work just as hard to make a living if you didn't have a child? You'd still have to have a roof over your head and food on the table, wouldn't you??? The father of your child is not responsible for that, YOU ARE. If you want somebody to change your lifestyle, please feel free to land yourself a rich man willing to support you. I'm not being mean, dear, really. I know where you are coming from. I am currently raising FOUR boys (all 10 years old and younger) by myself and putting myself through law school. My ex-husband pays a reasonable amount of support that was agreed-upon by the two of us. Although I could definitely hold him to the child support guidelines, which would give me a considerable amount more a month, I choose not to because I want him to be able to live a good life too. I figure that I am the only person who is responsible for the lifestyle I lead, and when I became divorced, it was on me to provide for myself. The money my ex pays for child support goes to the children. I'll make my own way in life. That's just the way I see it. Child support is not meant to be a form of hidden alimony, nor is it meant to give women the lifestyle they would have enjoyed during a marriage.

and, moving on, please don't take this as a flame. It is not meant to injure, merely to provoke thought. I have very strong opinions where the child support system is involved, and I just don't like it to be misused. You are absolutely correct when you say that the reason it is so harsh is because so many men have cheated the system in the past. And as to the "marry a rich guy" comment, I certainly hope I do that some day too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Also, my views towards ow have changed dramatically post-divorce. I see the ow as far less of an evil monster than I used to. and considering that you did not know your mm was married, I don't think you can be held accountable for it. I just feel that maybe your view on the purpose of child support is a little skewed.
-cd

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: cdcollins ]</small>

This is a very useful discussion--thanks everyone! CD--I live in Fl--I thought that here the OCs support will be calculated based on what my H earns, what the OW earns and how many dependants they each have. She has 1 child from her M (she's Dved) and the OC. My H and I have 2 children plus the OC. I understoodthat our second child will diminish my H's CS even though we concieved AFTER he got her pregnant. If we each had equal numbers of children then CS would have been calculated 50/50 between OW and H--so in Fl as I understand it, the children in a M ARE taken into consideration when OC CS is figured. Am I wrong? Also, I earn A LOT more than my H and my income is NOT calculated AT ALL so in our case we will have much more family money for our kids than ow will have for hers.

oh yes, my H doesn't want to ever see his
oC and I don't think its right to ignore the OC. I also believe that his CS will INCREASE based on his refusal to co-parent. Have you heard this?

"I love my D and would do anything to make sure that she never wants for anything."

moved on,

The best thing for any child is to have a two parent home with both parents that love her and want to raise her together. Is your fiance willing to adopt your daughter as his?
Or do you not want to give up the child support? Is this about love or money & revenge.
Just wondering.

I honestly don't want to go back and forth with anyone on this board about why a child should be financially supported by their other half, it wasn't my purpose when I replied at all.

My views on CS are probably a lot different than the majority of the women here because I'm the one with the OC. Like I said before, the maintenance of his lifestyle is not my concern. As far as his W having a job, I really don't care what the heck she does but she sure does concern herself with me and what I'm doing. No, I don't and have never wanted to be a SAHM, I have too much energy to do that and would go crazy if I was unable to get out of the house.

As to CS, I just get so sick and tired of hearing what a jerk the OW is for receiving it at all and how we should allow our new mates to adopt our children so the father can be relieved of CS duty. I have read a lot of posts here that talk about how great it would be for the OC to be adopted by the man in their mother's life. What's funny is some of the women here have children from other relationships in which they're having problems with the ex(CS related or not), but I don't see anyone talking about letting their new H adopt those kids. What about that? Is it because they also would like to have the CS coming into their household to help out with the daily expenses of taking care of those children? Probably so.

Not all OW are out to get some huge amount it CS, it's just given to them by the courts. I was surprised by the amount ordered to my D, it was more than I thought it would but it wasn't like I asked for them to sock it to him-just be fair. The money that comes in goes for things my child needs and wants, I don't use it to go to the spa to get my hair and nails done or take it to go buy unnecessary things that I want. If I want to do that, I'll pay for it myself or my fiance will buy it.

He has an obligation toward his children whether he wanted them or not. The children are owed that much. If he has to work 5 jobs to take care of those children, too bad. Being a mom isn't an easy job, but then he wouldn't know that because he skipped out completely. Take care of your responsibilities and don't whine about it. Period. I have never whined about having to take of my D because I enjoy her, but he's *****ed to high heaven about everything. These guys need to quit being crybabies.

Life isn't fair. If you don't like how your life is going, change it. Once again, I apologize if I've offended anyone.

Tara

Moved on,
Honestly, I am not arguing about the man's obligation to pay child support. But it often does seem that women (and not just ow - many times it is ex-wives or former girlfriends) take complete advantage of the child support system. I know where you are coming from on the SAHM thing. I tried it for a while and nearly crawled out of my skin. I love my kids tremendously, but I also need very much to work. I don't see your views as wrong as much as a little one-sided. And also, the truth is that children SHOULD have the benefit of a two-parent home. It is, without question, the best environment in which to raise a child. However, I am also pretty aware that adoption by a step-parent isn't always the greatest choice, either. Just please understand that usually the women who are desperately wishing for this really have nothing against the oc at all. It is an extremely painful situation to find one's self in, and having the ow's paramour adopt is just a hope that they cling to, because it is indeed one scenario in which their lives could go back to "normal". I too used to pray that ow would find a "real father" for my h's oc, so that I could go on with life without having to worry every day about the child support and more importantly, about the impact the oc drama would have on my kids. IN reality, the adoption of oc probably would not have impacted any of the underlying problems in my marriage. I can see that now, but I sure couldn't see it then. Adoption of the oc seemed like the only avenue to sanity sometimes. Don't take it personally when you see people talk about that. It is a very normal wish, and a very normal reaction. And generally most betrayed spouses really do care about the oc, and want them to have happy and safe lives. Many just really can't handle having the child in their lives, though. It's a really really hard situation for everyone involved, and there are no easy answers.

But hey, I STILL think my idea of marrying rich is a good one.
-cd

Mobe,
I have never really looked in depth into florida laws. You could be absolutely right, because I know some states have moved towards taking into consideration all the children involved, not just those for whom a child support action has been filed. I hope for your sake that florida is one of them. If I get some free time, I'll look into it. Also, I know there are some states that do increase child support when the noncustodial parent is not involved. Could be that florida is one of them. I was one that did want contact with my h's oc, and although my marriage subsequently fell apart for unrelated reasons, I think I oculd give you some first-hand perspective of what contact is like. I'd be happy to discuss it with you if that is what you and your h decide to do. I think if we had been in a better relationship, contact with the oc could have really enriched my life.
-cd

cd,

I agree, marrying rich would and is going to be so nice. My fiance does alright for himself and our family, and he has no problem sharing the wealth. He spoils my D so much, she's such a daddy's girl, and he makes sure she has everything under the sun. I personally think he's creating a monster, if he keeps this up imagine what she'll want when she's 16! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tara

moving on,
I avoided having girl babies just because I did not want to deal with 16-year-old female hormones, hahaha.

I am also dating a guy with a good future (an attorney), but all joking aside, I love him for him. (Except when he gets on my very last nerve.)

Actually, I've reconsidered my position since my last post, and am thinking about making a fortune myself so that I can have men date me for MY money. If nothing else, that will be plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
with love,
cd

M.O. wrote and I quote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What's funny is some of the women here have children from other relationships in which they're having problems with the ex(CS related or not), but I don't see anyone talking about letting their new </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are referring to me, my Husband, Mr."T" paid 100% for my children when we first married and wanted to adopt my girls from "wild Bill"...but alas....OW/OC stepped into the picture and Mr."T" thought I was going to leave him and the adoption fell through for a while until "Wild Bill" chose to become involved in the girls' lives and refused to sign papers.

Don't presume to know anything about my situation either. I still hold to the fact that I would love my H's OC to be adopted by her step-father...not to get out of our financial obligation (which would be an added bonus...I won't lie there) but because they deserve to be a family together as she will never be a part of ours. Mr."T" signed sole care and custody over to ex-ow.

We do pay our obligation and if you know anything about my posts, we have gone without electricity, phone, food...you name it....our 5th child is an "oopsy baby" as you eloquently put it before. I am taking steps to permenantly keep myself from getting pg again (via tubes tied) when the child is born.

As for my being a stay at home mom, and being deaf, I couldn't possibly make enough for daycare for five children, and believe it or not, employers do discriminate.

My H's ex-ow didn't have to get on welfare until she got pg. with OC...she chose to dramatically alter her lifestyle. I had no choice in this matter. Except to try and stay and salvage a marriage.

If our ex-ow thinks we live in the lap of luxury, she's seriously kidding herself. Our lifestyle, while modest has taken a nose-dive after we took her to court, got the dna results and were ordered to pay an amount that was more than our mortgage! (Not counting the medical at 66%). The courts didn't consider my son (who was two weeks old at the time) because they told Mr."T" that "his wife can get a job to support the second kid" (they never took into account that not only am I deaf/hard of hearing, but I have a special needs child at home that Mr."T" pays almost 100% for with meds, hospital costs etc.)

I am asking for all kids to be considered and I am asking for fairness in paying for the kids. Why should I be penalized because I in good faith married someone believing that we have something to find out that it wasn't really the case?

Mr."T" works the equivelant of three jobs and we are thankful that ex-ow settled out of court with us and her last note to us said that she wants this to be peaceful and she understood Mr."T"'s reasons for stepping out of OC's life...if that's the case, adoption would be wonderful.

You have your situation and I don't judge you for it, please don't drag me or anyone else who have hopes for adoption into your line of reasoning.

Thanks and have a great New Year...2003 already...I'm praying for financial prosperity and for fairness in a world and court system where there isn't any fairness.

Twiisty

I DO agree the CS laws are unfair. However, I am not complaining as it has benefited my daughter. However, I do recognize they are unfair. My D's father had a son prior to my D being born. He and the mother were separated, but she had never filed for support. I filed in 1993 when D was born. Since my Order was the first I was awarded almost $100.00 a wk - which at the time was around 24% of his income. I also got it so he has to pay for her health ins and cover 50% of medical expenses not covered. He also has to maintain a life ins policy w/ her as beneficiary.

He has foolishly since had 3 other children. A girl and a set of twins (w/ W he has since divorced). The state takes an additional 8% out of his income to divide between the other 4 children. The other mothers used CSE to get their Orders. However, because I filed pro se' the state can not lower what I get. From my understanding he would have to get an atty or file himself to petition the Court to lower my Order if he wanted the other kids to get more $$$.

So I do agree it is not fair that my D gets 24% of his income while the other 4 share 8$. However, she is my D and I want the best for her. Thus, I am not going to go back to Court in order to lower her ammt. It profits her and I am grateful. It helps pay for her baton, dancing, and gymnastics classes.

I do choose not to go back and get the amount increased. He does work 2 jobs now and his income has gone up since 1993. However, I do feel I get enough. tew

Tara: I sincerely apologize if I offended you by my comment of not sleeping with a married man. If you did not know he was married then he is a jerk for lying to you. In my case the ow knew my H was married and they are both jerks in my opinion for doing it.

And yes, I actually KNOW people who are on welfare and abuse the system. My life (not that you care or know anything about it) has lended itself to being discriminated against and stereotyped many times.

I do apologize if I offended you.

I do not like this situation I find myself in nor the situation in which my innocent children find themselves in. My H was a complete idiot to go outside of our marriage. He has to be responsible for that.
However at the same time, my kids are my kids and I will fight for them until I die. They do not know that daddy was unfaithful and I do not believe that they should be unjustly punished meaning their lifestyle should not change due to daddy's unfaithfulness.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

I thank you for your comment that if you had known he was married you would have not participated in the affair. That quote speaks highly of you.

Angelia

I wanted to take a minute and point out tew's post. It is a great example of what can happen to wives that choose NOT to file child support actions against their husbands in order to protect their children's rights to support. I certainly hope that everybody here has a marriage that will indeed last a lifetime, and I hope that all the filing of child support ever does for anyone is reduce the ow's take of the proverbial pie, but you never know when you may end up in a divorce yourself. Two years ago I was absolutely confident that I'd be married forever, and now I am divorced. I truly hate to advocate my child support plan as a "just in case" move, but honestly, it works that way as well. I would sure hate to be the mom with three kids sharing 8% of my ex-husband's income while one oc got 24%. It's scary that this happens. Baton lessons for one, ramen noodles for three. How do ya like that?
-cd

cd,
I do believe your plan has its merits.

I am not saying what I get is fair.

Nor is my D an OC. Her father was not married at that time. He had a son already when she was born. He also has since had a D w/ a woman who has moved out of state and a set of twins he had w/ his XW (married her in 98, my D born in 93). These other 3 women share 8% of his income for 3 dhildren as the male twin died at 9 mos.

I believe women should protect themselves and their children. tew