In a current thread (OW doesn't want w involved)someone (former ow) mentioned that ow pay (have regrets).

I want to know for one or two reasons (here goes list queen again, I can't help it, I'm an analyst by profession)

1. I want to know how they pay because I want to understand some of ow's actions and fears. We have contact on a regular basis w/ lil lady. Some of her (ow) antics drive us banannas! Maybe if I knew what was under her skin I could write the drama off a little easier. Instead, I find myself retreating to the tightly-sealed bag of resentment and reconciling her behavior based on a plentiful variety of disgust, loathing, anger, mistrust, etc. I hate going into the bag....the contents stink and takes too much time and energy to reseal!

2. Part of me wants to know that she hurts too. As ugly as it is, I just want to know that she'll have the same tears to cry as my husband and myself. Believe it or not, we're 2 + years into this, but sometimes the pain is still unimaginable.

Thanks in advance for those that will take time to share honest feelings.

Matthew,

Well, I know that I am more considered the WS than the XOW, but I could try to shed a little bit of light on your questions.

1. I know that I had suffered quite a bit right after D-day. I suffered w/my guilt of what I had done, and those I had hurt by my actions! I still deal with some of that guilt today, although it is more with the heartache I had caused my H and family, than the xOM and his family. Now, also remember that they never knew( to the best of my knowledge) of the pregnancy, or Abbi's birth, so they have "only" suffered with the A(I quote for only, because I know that A's also cause tremendous pain as well)

2. Unfortunately, I can't say that I also hurt, in that capasity, as I don't have to deal w/xOM or his family. I believe that it is actually best for all involved in our situation, as xOM was VERY violent, and had threatened bodily harm/death to my H during A and after D-day! So, I am actually exstatic that I will never have to see or hear from xOM again! But, I do fear, until that fabeled 2 year point of xOM finding out and contacting us! Of course, from everything else that's been noted on the boards, if H has not and does not contest paternity, xOM can't do anything about it anyway.

Well, that's one perspective on things. Don't know if I helped you out any, just thought I'd share from my side of things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Tigger

Matthew in addition to your list I hope you don't mind me adding, I would like to know why the BS is treated in such a nasty manner by the OW/OM when in fact the betrayed spouse is actually the victim?
I'm not claiming to be a saint here but I do know in my heart and soul that I would never subject a family to the pain that my family is going through. It just makes me wonder what kind of heart these people have. It makes me view them the way I would view a murderer because the OW in our life is ICE COLD and extremely inconsiderate.

Oh, I just want to add I'm not looking to get into a battle I too jst need to try and understand for my own sanity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Matthew6:14,15:
<strong>
1. I want to know how they pay because I want to understand some of ow's actions and fears.

I've decided to answer here, because I don't want to get caught up in the pissing contest that's going on in the other thread.
1. My actions? Not commendable at all. I know that now. Did I then? No. I have to live with what I've done, and the consequenses of that, for the rest of my life. I love my son more than anything, but it's HARD being a single parent - especially when the other parent isn't involved. All that aside - when you're a single parent because of these circumstances - that makes it even harder. I'm extremely lucky in that my family was supportive of me having the baby - regardless of how he came to be. Some people aren't that lucky (and I'm not just talking about OW or xOW here). Fears? That some day my son may resent me for my actions. I can only hope that I can bring him up to be a better person than that. My hopes? That he'll forgive me, and understand why I did what I did. And that he'll forgive his father for being a [censored], and not being involved in his life.

2. Part of me wants to know that she hurts too. As ugly as it is, I just want to know that she'll have the same tears to cry as my husband and myself. Believe it or not, we're 2 + years into this, but sometimes the pain is still unimaginable.

His father broke my heart. Sometimes the pain of that is still unimaginable. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I believed him, and I believed IN him. I now realize that everything that I thought was real was a lie. I cry. I cry for the stupidity of my actions. I cry for my son that doesn't know his father. I cry because my son doesn't understand the WHY's of it all, and who knows if he ever will - because sometimes I feel like I still don't understand it all. I cry because some part of me still loves him, and probably always will. And I cry because he is missing out on a wonderful, smart, beautiful child.

I have a lot of trouble trusting people, especially men. I haven't had a great relationship since him. I get close to someone then back off, and break it off because I'm afraid of the same thing happening again. I'm 37 years old. I never wanted to be by myself, not like this. I never wanted to just have 1 child. But I'm now accepting that chances are I will just have one, and I will be alone for the rest of my life because I won't let anyone get that close to me again.

So, you ask if we pay too. Yes, we do. Just not in the same ways.

Thanks in advance for those that will take time to share honest feelings.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fears? That some day my son may resent me for my actions. I can only hope that I can bring him up to be a better person than that. My hopes? That he'll forgive me, and understand why I did what I did. And that he'll forgive his father for being a [censored], and not being involved in his life.

2. Part of me wants to know that she hurts too. As ugly as it is, I just want to know that she'll have the same tears to cry as my husband and myself. Believe it or not, we're 2 + years into this, but sometimes the pain is still unimaginable.

His father broke my heart. Sometimes the pain of that is still unimaginable. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I believed him, and I believed IN him. I now realize that everything that I thought was real was a lie. I cry. I cry for the stupidity of my actions. I cry for my son that doesn't know his father. I cry because my son doesn't understand the WHY's of it all, and who knows if he ever will - because sometimes I feel like I still don't understand it all. I cry because some part of me still loves him, and probably always will. And I cry because he is missing out on a wonderful, smart, beautiful child.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey All....Matthew as you know we are 2 years into this and beginning year 3, JoshMom I don't know if MM lied to you or not (about being married w/children)....we each have our own story....

In our case ow/ow's H were our mutual friends....
We shared going to dinner and dancing over a two and a half year time frame..... Ow knew H was married to me...was my friend...but not totally...got really mean w/me toward end of A and I couldn't understand it.

H NEVER wanted another child. Ow assured him she was taking BC, after all, she and her H didn't get pregnant during that time, right? Ow made sure she didn't sleep w/her H during July 00 and got pregnant immediately. Didn't tell my H until early Sept 00...H thought it was done although ow kept the calls coming including THE CALL..."I'm pregnant"

Okay now JoshMom....H confessed and exclaimed remorse from day one.

Our 2o year old son's Birthday was weeks away....what a gift, huh?

S suffered severe emotional problems and depression and was in hospital.

H was back home and I asked him to leave again b4 ow delivered a son ( to which our son cried about and was frightened about that Dad will get to start over and like "new son" better....didn't happen)

Ow delivered, H moved home while I was at work begging for me to try us again. Missed me, couldn't be w/o me...yadda, yadda, ok.

We tried for an entire summer w/lawyer help to see oc. We DID one time. For 3 hrs at my begging as ow wrote me and gave me phone number....when I called she wanted H to call....I didn't want H to call....he was my husband and was trying to salvage us....he oblidged...she was nuts....wrote more letters to me and seperately to H...stormed H's office and wouldn't leave (police report)...

Left photos in my mailbox of c.....
pulled in our driveway at night leaning on horn and would leave when we came out....drove by our home and yelled profanity out of window...called me and told me I didn't give good B-jobs! Bumped me while I was walking as ow now walked MY route, parked her car nearby and just followed me! ow lives 3 min. from our house.

A long story short, I went w/H to prosecutor and filed stalking charges, short of PRESSING them, a letter was sent to ow....Ow wouldn't back down on supervised visits at HER home....H said "no way" she called me insecure and him ball-less....still called H's office playing "Stop in the name of love" and "Stop the love you save may be your own"
Woke baby to cry for daddy.......ENOUGH????

It's just our story.
N/C is best. We just want to forget the ugly past and have our home for sale. We need to get far away as ow does things just inside the law to get noticed now.
She's pathetic.

We tried to do what we could. Our S is now married and we have a 9 mo old granddaughter.

H is so greatful for his "second chance" The song by 38 Special is one he played for me over and over.

While a single man may be worthless....you must give it a try, as I am in re-uniting w/H, who I'll never feel the same about after 30 years together...so I guess your not trusting is the same as what a wife is left with, JoshMom....the scar is deep and wide.....closed now but there just the same.

While in no way do I excuse H, he does try to make it up in many loving ways.....more than I can say MM usually does for most ow who surprise them with something they never bargained for. NesPas?

Meanwhile I wish no ill on oc but hope ow suffers in another way for completely coming out of the woods with the affair with a huge big bear attatched to the situation.

No harm meant. Just feelings from the heart.
love
Debi

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Tigger,

Thanks for confirming what I suspect most of the times...dealing with the guilt is probably at least partially to blame for her actions. I'm curious, what do you mean my the fabled 2-year mark?

Robbed,
pls, by all means, add on. You may ask questions that I haven't even thought to ask.

Joshmom,
"1. My actions? Not commendable at all. I know that now. Did I then? No."
I'm curious, when you say you didn't know that, do you mean you were in denial? Do you mean you didn't want to take the time to face the fact that you were wrong? Did you know he was a MM? I'm not being catty, I'm just trying to grasp what I can from your response and desparately apply it to my own situation. Most times, it's like she acts like she did nothing wrong and it's me that has become the thorn in her side. As irrational as this sounds, is that what you mean?

As far as fears, why do you feel he'll resent you? I firmly believe that when children are old enough to know...well...'stuff', they ususally deal with it pretty well. If anything, I would hope after the initial shock/disappointment, he'll be glad (understatement of the year) to know you kept him. As much as I hate to think of it, you had other options.

As far as [censored] dad, well....I don't know what to say there. In our case, we decided contact was best. I'm pretty civil under the worst of circumstances and I'm a Christian (not perfect..just aiming). Was the MM's wife aware of the affair and child? Could she deal with the circumstances? I guess my point is that in most of these cases, the bio parents make awfully difficult choices...is [censored] a fair term for him?

"I cry because some part of me still loves him, and probably always will."
...and this is where the distrust comes in for me. I know she loved (at least in the chemical sense, not the biblical sense) him. They had chemistry, even if it was based on fantasy. My biggest fear is that once all the animosity settles and we relate to each other on a relaxed basis (if this ever happens) that she'll slip in a 'remember when' conversation or innuendo and all hell will break loose. I notice already that she has a much easier time talking to him than to me....hmmmm, wonder why that is???

As far as you trusting again, well coming from a wife that had the biblical, moral and legal right to expect fidelity and honesty and integrity from her partner; trust God. I'm not saying that we shouldn't trust our spouses or partners, but how can we trust people to not hurt us when we make mistakes ourselves? Using that logic, should your son trust you? Ofcourse, you're human and so is he. Don't you think he'll make some not-so-good choices in life?

Joshmom, thanks for your candid response. I hope you find your way back to trusting in the journey of life again.

Hey Gem,

What can I say....I feel ya. I guess in our situation the xow is not as sociopathic. I guess I was just in a slump when I started this post. Reading your reponse is the light at the end of the tunnel. Why?

38 special....making it up to you....your beautiful grandbaby....the realization that love and marriage go hand in hand and are life experiences, not separately held contracts....just curious though...who ever said we were supposed to feel the same way about our spouses year after year?
Even if this tragedy never took place would you still feel the same?
Just askin'....
I don't feel the same way about my H and in some ways, that's a good thing. We had a rotten start and things are much better now. It's funny, I kinda feel like because we've weathered the storm, that we're awesome as a couple. But I can't help but wonder about those that started out better than us and have also weathered this storm. If they stareted out right, are they just as awesome or better now?

babbling...sorry. Thanks Gem.

Originally posted by Matthew6:14,15:

I'm curious, when you say you didn't know that, do you mean you were in denial? Do you mean you didn't want to take the time to face the fact that you were wrong? Did you know he was a MM?
Yes, I knew. And yes, I didn't want to think of the consequences, or his wife, or anything other than the fact that I was in love. Really truly in love. (note that I said I was in love, not "we" - I believed that "we" were, but know differently now) I'm not being catty, I'm just trying to grasp what I can from your response and desparately apply it to my own situation. Most times, it's like she acts like she did nothing wrong and it's me that has become the thorn in her side. As irrational as this sounds, is that what you mean?
Yes, and no. Everyone's situation is different. She DID do something wrong. She slept with someone else's husband.
As far as fears, why do you feel he'll resent you? I firmly believe that when children are old enough to know...well...'stuff', they ususally deal with it pretty well. If anything, I would hope after the initial shock/disappointment, he'll be glad (understatement of the year) to know you kept him. As much as I hate to think of it, you had other options.
I hope so, too. And as far as other options, yes - they were available. But I couldn't have an abortion. I thought of adoption, but couldn't go through with it.
As far as [censored] dad, well....I don't know what to say there. In our case, we decided contact was best. I'm pretty civil under the worst of circumstances and I'm a Christian (not perfect..just aiming). Was the MM's wife aware of the affair and child? She was aware of the affair and OC from the 1st OW. She wasn't aware of mine until after a year or so. Could she deal with the circumstances? I guess my point is that in most of these cases, the bio parents make awfully difficult choices...is [censored] a fair term for him? yes, it is. He is a [censored]. I won't go into specifics, I know that I've posted some examples here before.

"I cry because some part of me still loves him, and probably always will."
...and this is where the distrust comes in for me. I know she loved (at least in the chemical sense, not the biblical sense) him. They had chemistry, even if it was based on fantasy. My biggest fear is that once all the animosity settles and we relate to each other on a relaxed basis (if this ever happens) that she'll slip in a 'remember when' conversation or innuendo and all hell will break loose. I notice already that she has a much easier time talking to him than to me....hmmmm, wonder why that is??? You will have to trust your husband to do the right thing, and just keep it on a civil basis, and that's it. You're all doing what you think is the best thing for the child, and that is to be commended. IF she's got underhanded motives, shame on her.

As far as you trusting again, well coming from a wife that had the biblical, moral and legal right to expect fidelity and honesty and integrity from her partner; trust God. I'm not saying that we shouldn't trust our spouses or partners, but how can we trust people to not hurt us when we make mistakes ourselves? Using that logic, should your son trust you? Ofcourse, you're human and so is he. Don't you think he'll make some not-so-good choices in life?
I've never done anything to my son to make him not trust me. But I see where you're going with this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I can only hope that I can lead him in the right direction, and that he'll make the best choices for himself. I'm sure that he'll make mistakes, we all do. Hopefully they won't be as bad as mine, or his father's.

Joshmom, thanks for your candid response. I hope you find your way back to trusting in the journey of life again.

Thanks, me too.

Matthew,

That 2 year mark is, in most states, the time frame in which the "assumed" father may contest paternity. As I also stated, H has never contested paternity, and as such, is "assumed" the father of Abbi. xOM, as far as we know, never knew about the pregnancy, and has never had a DNA test done, so has nothing to stand on, even if he does come out of the muck to try to claim paternity before Abbi turns 2. Basically, he has no claim to her, and no legal basis to try. Which is the exact way that H and I want it. Hope that cleared up your question.

Tigger

Would I still feel the same?
Matthew I adored my H. I loved the feeling of being exclusive w/him. Many times I thanked God for allowing us our marriage while friends we knew divorced. Maybe it was an innocent way to think.
I never dreamed he'd cheat, let alone have a c w/another woman.

D-day, I can remember the shock so well. As if I heard him say it but I wouldn't let the words inside.

If this never happened, yes, I'd still be the good wife from the seventies.....still feel the same.

Now? Well it's like a shadow always around....not always, but sometimes a wave of sadness comes over me and I must work to get rid of it.

Matthew it's amazing when I look back we stayed together. This site helped alot.

Prayer was the biggest thing. Prayer changes things.

love
Debi

Gem wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I loved the feeling of being exclusive w/him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt the same way...I loved knowing that I was exclusive to my H. That out of all we've endured, we belonged together...we were high school sweethearts that found our way back to each other.....

In same ways we are the same...in other ways, our relationship has changed forever. I feel like the one treasure I gave him, myself....was crapped on and peed away...just to satisfy an itch....

I feel at times I have nothing left to believe in when it comes to our marriage. I'm struggling now with my feelings. I'm not one to stuff them down, I explode.

My heart is broken in a million pieces by someone who vowed to "forsake all others (and a hot piece of [censored]) till death do us part...."

How do you regain the trust...slowly, if ever...the trust is totally different...no more is the complete and utter freedom of just relying and relaxing wholely into his arms knowing that I'm safe and that he'd do nothing to hurt me.....

All the "I love you's" "you're beautiful" "I'm glad you're mine" don't mean a thing to me now...

It will never make sense and I have to move on...that's what sucks about all this...my H and his ex-ow brought all this pain into my life and I'm the one that has to "get over it and move on"....I told the marriage counselor off when she told me that I needed to move on...I am moving on, but how do you reconcile immense pain and the deep sense of betrayal and add the added sting of an illegitimate child with it?

I'm healing and moving on and we do have our good days...but I often wonder, deep in the back of my mind if I'm just biding my time until I can get back on my feet after college and a job and then I might just move on myself?

If I'm entertaining those thoughts, then I'm wasting my H's time as well as mine.....

We are doing well, although we have counseling more now as a result of my being slapped by H during the last Brouhaha.....

It's hard. I know it's worth it at times...but I hope and pray that there's still something there after all the dust settles....

Just musing...feeling old today.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hugs,
Twiisty

Hi Matthew
You sound like you are doing well. I think it is good that you can acknowledge and confront your true feelings and by doing that, they can be dealt with honestly before God.

You know? We don't have to go before God in prayer all perfect and neatly wrapped up really tight. He knows our hearts anyway? He knows what we are carrying around in that stinky little bag! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He is a just God, He will do right by you. I say open the bag in front of Him and let Him deal with the circumstances. I know it's hard tho because it's like we are crucified right along with Christ. Kind of like if these circumstances didn't arise, would we have known we were capable of such negativity? Regardless of the reason. God is bigger than whatever the details are...

So now, to answer your questions, OW pain is not BS pain. I think for sure BS pain goes much, much deeper because of being ONE FLESH with someone who decided to add another flesh to the pot. It IS disgusting. What I did was disgusting. But I turned a corner. I changed. My changes didn't stop the consequences that were already in motion because of poor choices, but nevertheless there was a change of heart.

The xow in your case can change and your prayers may be the catalyst. I heard a really interesting prayer the other day... You could pray that xow would be convicted (by the Holy Spirit), that He would follow her around everywhere she goes day and night and give her no peace and not let her off the hook until she is so convicted that she MUST change and repent! Hmmm...

Well, as long as we keep mounting up to the Son as eagles, we can keep renewing our strength (& youth) like the eagles. Did you know that eagles are the only birds who can fly directly into the sun because they have two sets of eyelids, one that protects their eyes from the sun... INTERESTING, huh???

Hang in there. Your two years of recovery are hard-earned and you deserve 1000 pats on the back!

Question for Matthew: Just wondering...
Is your xow married?

Twiisty,

'You need to move on', sounds pretty harsh. Sort of a slap in the face huh?
"I am moving on, but how do you reconcile immense pain and the deep sense of betrayal and add the added sting of an illegitimate child with it?"

Well, in times like these, it's funny, but I tend to grasp whatever pearls of wisdom I can find to continue the healing process. Well, a local radio station d.j. signs off his daily slot with the phrase,
'It's never between you and anyone else, it's always between you/them and God'.

I hope that helps. Just like binthere suggests, and I concurr, dealing with the muckity muck from their f**-up stinks, but there's absolutely nothing they can do to heal the pain.
There's one thing that you left out of the stuck holding the bag scenario though....they don't get off the hook so easily.
I don't know about you, but if there's one thing I can't deal with more than pain inflicted by others is pain that I inflict on others. Guilt (for me) is the ultimate destroyer. It can eat you up if you don't deal with it.
Think about it, when someone hurts you, there's some sort of sick 'power' in being a victim. You get to judge (even if only in your head) the person for their actions. You get to size yourself up against them....in my own way, I've done that. And if you're not careful you get to hold yourself up in the light as a shining example of martyrdom all for the sake of, uh oh...vanity. Yuck. I've done it all.

But when you've committed the offense, you have to fight every day to remind yourself that at your core you're not the person that did those things. You have to kick yourself for doing what you did. You have to protect yourself from people that even remotely act like they can accuse you of anything. You waffle back and forth between feeling like a failure and feeling like your life is over because of a mistake.

Twisty, all I'm saying here is....all I ever have to do is forgive them. They have the much harder, less visible task of forgiving themselves. Think about it, who really wants to walk around with that on their conscious?

Binthere,
thanks for the healing balm sista. Your words pierced right through me and sunk in. Thanks for reminding me to keep it real with him, especially because he knows the truth...knew it even before I was conceived.
"Well, as long as we keep mounting up to the Son as eagles, we can keep renewing our strength (& youth) like the eagles. Did you know that eagles are the only birds who can fly directly into the sun because they have two sets of eyelids, one that protects their eyes from the sun... INTERESTING, huh???"

I'll say....isn't it something to worship a God that grants grace and mercy. We can keep approaching his Holy throne for strength and renewal even though at our best, we deserve to be consumed by his power. And to think...we can approach him because of the intecessor....the
'extra covering' that will make us righteous before the presence....

As far as the Holy Spirit convicting her....well, on my good days, I pray for her healing, whatever way it comes. Maybe this is the process we're going through right now...the healing. Maybe that's the reason for all the antics, because she can't have peace with this until she deals with her own guilty conscious. Maybe this is the change process for her. She so desparately wants to know everything that goes on when lil mama is in our home and we've done everything but tape the entire visit and give her a copy for play by play review. Hmmmm her fear of the unknown is not fueled by actual events (she has no reason to think we'd hurt lil mama) her fear is based on her own guilt and sense that something would happen to her in our care because of her responsibility for what happened....who knows.
I'm tired and hungry and ready for my lunch break.
Binthere, again, thanks for the wise words and the encouragement. I hope she can grow up to be just like you!

Hi Matthew,

I will answer your questions as they relate to me.

The biggest way that I suffer post the EMA is trust issues in my current relationship. It's not a deal breaker for us, but it's a tough one to deal with.

I gave birth to a child from a triangulated situation. I didn't know the guy was involoved. He has NC, but I send him pictures on occasion.

It is my opinion, that my "suffering" with the situation is in NO WAY comparable to the suffering of the BS. I went into my EMA situation with my eyes open. I found out a lot of disturbing information about my (now x) MM WAY after the fact, but his W SERIOUSLY got the sh-t end of the stick.

In the situation with my child, I decided to have the baby LONG before I found out that he was involved. I accepted that he was with another person and went on with my life. IT's 4 years later and they STILL struggle with it.

I can't even pretend that my "suffering" is anything close to the BS's. In the situation with my son, the BS had a nervous breakdown AND sued me for emotional distress (amoung other things). THat case dragged on for 3 LONG years, it was thrown out of court and she was left with a fat legal bill. I changed jobs, was embarassed about the suit and that was it.

In the situaiton with my 10 year EMA, the greatest suffering that I have is finding a way to trust my current partner.

My hat is off to the BS's. I don't know what i'd do in such a situation.

To answer Robbed's question - why do OP have anger toward the BS. I honestly don't know. I feel like I should feel sorry for her, but I think her a fool. A fool for putting up with his mess, a fool for staying, a fool for believing. A fool for playing the victim in all of this. Maybe I over identify with her to some degree.

I too believed for too long, the difference being that I had the gift of space to pull my heard above the murky waters of this insane EMA.

BinTheredunThat and Matthew:

ya know...I read your postings and pondered. I am a saved woman, bought by the blood of the lamb, baptized in the Holy Spirit and right now my faith isn't even as much as a mustard seed. Right now, I can't see God in this situation. Right now, I don't know what God is teaching me, what He wants me to do, how He wants this situation to turn out, why He let Satan into our marriage and what His ways are going to be.

Right now, I am a bit angry at God - I didn't deserve this and I keep wondering how I can be a witness to my unsaved H if I can't even get over this.

Forgiveness.....I was listening to Creflo Dollar (he's a wonderful pastor) the other day on a tape I had and the message was forgiveness and how we are commanded to do it because God does it for us. Well, I have to tell you I felt so inadequate because I'm not there yet. I have made the choice to forgive my H but am I complete with the process yet?...NO is the truth. Am I in any way able to yet forgive the OW - because I believe that ultimately I should do that too. Yes, I believe she is to blame as well but in order for me to have peace at some point - I must get my hatred and despise out of my system for her too.

She is also one of God's children (I don't mean that she is saved but I mean that Jesus died on the cross for her too) and ya know....if she asks for forgiveness God will give it to her too. I am not exclusive in my relationship with God - he loves us all. And that almost makes me angry - that God would not pick my side and choose me because I didn't cheat...ya know? I'm rambling but that's my thoughts right now....

I take my bag of crap before God, not daily, but often. I feel like He already knows my pain, He already knows what betrayal feels like and He knows that if anyone is forgive that He is gonna have to help me.

My counselor asked me yesterday how I felt about being a Christian and not having contact with oc (again, if it turns out to be his). I really don't know how I feel about that. I feel crappy because God doesn't turn his back on us - but ya know....in my life, God is my father.

I was listening to TD Jakes and he was talking about the importance of fathers and daughters that we often look for the man we marry to be like our father - and also we understand God's love and all better when we had a good father. Well, I didn't have a good father - mine sexually abused me so I have a hard time understanding God as 'daddy' that will take me in his arms and love me and protect me and will help me through anything. Those are my own insecurities but this situation doesn't help. So, if we don't have contact then I suppose I'm giving this child up to God to be it's father too....Is that wrong? I don't know.

I know that my H doesn't want contact - didn't want the oc - really just wanted a piece of @$$ and then got caught. Well, that is his burden to deal with and I do feel like at some point he will have to answer to God for that. But what is my role in that? Should I insist when I know that I really don't want the oc. I don't want the pain and misery. I can't help his guilt and/or her guilt, (if there is any).

Lately I've been thinking that God isn't big enough to deal with this - I guess I think that because He didn't step in and stop it. He didn't make her miscarry - He didn't hit my h with a 2x4 before he had sex with her to make him stop - He didn't send angels to turn his car around before all this happened. Yes, I know that He gives us each our own free will and that will never change. And yes, I know that Satan is powerful and that apple looks pretty darned good on the tree but it is filled with poison.

I really don't know what I'm saying or feeling lately. My H really wants us to focus on our recovery, our healing and I agree. I spend time in prayer and I pray for him and for us.

I read that one of you Christian ladies (Matthew?) has contact with oc....how old is it and did you insist or did your H? Do you ever wonder how it would be with no contact? And for the BinThere....do you have contact? I ask because I'm hung up on this. I'm a Christian and 'supposed' to love my neighbor, supposed to forgive (have started and am working through that) but I don't have those feelings and wonder if there's something wrong with my spirit....

Just would like your thoughts?

Angelia

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lately I've been thinking that God isn't big enough to deal with this - I guess I think that because He didn't step in and stop it. He didn't make her miscarry - He didn't hit my h with a 2x4 before he had sex with her to make him stop - He didn't send angels to turn his car around before all this happened. Yes, I know that He gives us each our own free will and that will never change. And yes, I know that Satan is powerful and that apple looks pretty darned good on the tree but it is filled with poison.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Angelia, The Lord gives all of us free will.

That being said, you are the antidote to that poisen!

As BTDT said, of being "one flesh" and another shares that and ultimately gives birth to a C, is the alpha and omega of pain.

God has a plan for all of us...whether we stay or leave, it's a plan.

If my H wanted ow he would have been there,no doubt.

If she were his alpha and omega, he would have left in a New York Minute!

She wasn't.

He begged me, Angelia. Your H, it seems has been ready to re-commit for a while.

Mine was...but we had a priest intervening...whom I trusted...even though I still trusted God.

Guess what? God won. It took a year, but HE won. With that, I also got to salvage my marriage.

Truth be told, both H and I admitted to being miserable w/o each other.

He was not miserable w/o ow. Or he'd have left "us". He had plenty of time away from me after d-day.

I had plenty of time away from H.

I was ready to do myself a favor and get the heck out! Couldn't take it a minute longer.

All I can say is God wins in all situations. If we are meant to be apart, it will happen, if H is to be in C's life, so be it....I know with my faith I can deal with it.
No longer afraid.

Another blow that I have been reluctant to tell you.

You know how H and I are YANKEE'S fans?

Do you all remember Lou Gehrig?

His disease?

My beautiful, helpful, prayerful, forgiving, Mom has it.

Cleveland clinic diagnosed it in Sept.

Her speech is like that of a hopeless drunk and it embarrasses her.

Her arms are losing strength.

Cruel thing is this disease allows your mind to remain strong.

My Mom said she was proud how I handeled our situation. She said she has a spot in her heart for H as she knows he's suffering. Said to keep up doing the right thing.

She made me cry so hard at that it took a few minutes to answer her.

I said "thankyou"... that's all. "Thankyou"

So whatever else God has in HIS infinate plan for me to endure...I'm ready... I thank HIM always for my life. My gifts.

And for all of my friends here on MB...old and new.
love
Debi

Gem: Not sure what this means...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That being said, you are the antidote to that poisen! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me, an anticdote? Not sure I follow that one and you know by now that I'll ask if I don't understand so, please explain.

There's a part of me that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that my GOD is faithful. The that MY GOD (boy, I feel like I'm in church) is my healer, my lawyer, my doctor, my friend, my everything! I also know that MY GOD, can do EVERYTHING bcause he is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I know that MY God sits high and looks low and searches the earth. I know the My God is all knowing and all powerful and even Satan trembles at his name.

I guess my questioning is more of this and maybe I didn't explain it well....Can God make this child not his...YES. Will He do that? No!

I already believe that God will provide for my needs which will be financial. I know that many do not believe in tithing but if it's in the bible then I believe it. I know because it's already happened that if I give my little 10% to God that He will provide for every need according to his riches. He will provide, pressed down, shaken together and running over.

No mistaken my beliefs. Lord they are strong. What God has done for others He can do for me. God is no respector of persons and He will provide. But, what I want from God and what I pray for is that this child will not be my H's. I pray to God that there will not be a daily reminder of this pain. I pray that God will not allow me to suffer for the mistakes and sins of my H. I pray for peace and I do not know how you have peace when there is guilt, shame and deceit.

I know that is selfish but that is truly what I pray for.

I know what I pray for and I know that God can in fact make miracles happen - I know that He can make this situation bearable for all - He doesn't give us what He knows we can't handle. And, I know His eye is on the sparrow and if he takes care for the sparrow and the lily of the field, then surely He will take care of me...but I'm selfish and I want Him to take care of me by taking away the problem. Plain and simple.

Yes, I am partially afraid of ow and possible oc. I am not afraid of them physically but I am afraid of the emotional pain.

It's not for me to be mad at God but I know that He knows that hurt and that betrayal. For while on the cross,Jesus asked his father....Why has thou forsaken me? So, He knows.

Lately I've been concentrating far too much on ow and possible oc. I've been letting them rule me instead of me working on my marriage. Yes, my H has been committed for a while. I question his commitment to me - like your H he would have been gone if she were what he really wanted. I know that with my head but my heart is another story. I know that it truly would have been easier for him to leave me and be with her than to go through what he faces now. I know that if he can put up with my crying from the hurt, the anger that I display at times, and the trust issues he's having to build that he MUST love me - either that or he's a horrible glutten for punishment. His actions have more than shown that he loves me - his actions have more than shown that he knows she was a mistake.

Anyway, Ms. Gem....I'm babbling and I'm tired....thank you for your responses. You have been truthful in all your e-mails and I appreciate it more than you know.

Love, Angelia

Antidote means "what God has joined together ,let no man put asunder" YOU.

You are the antidote to Satan and your H knows...maybe not in the Christian sense, but he must know.

Angelia WE know of skid-stained underwear. We know of flatuance passed during the night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
We know of using GAIN detergent to get rid of B.O. stains.
We know of bad breath w/a kiss and crummy sex, just because H wants/needs it that night.

We also know of flowers sent just because...
Kisses given because they are so happy to :(see above descriptions)

Happy in their own skin...knowing they are/have been /loved in spite of being human...

Familiarity....says it all... Don't you think?

A's are all about hiding your real self...smelling great all the time...holding "gas" in till you can't stand it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Looking for an unreality that does not exist.

Lord gave us these men....discard 'em?

Nah!!! Been there too long and am too tired to try again....You too huh?

All in all...is one indescretion worth a lifetime of emptiness?

You decide Angelia. And thanks for the compliment of honesty...I am only telling it from my heart. When at all possible from H's heart from what he's shared.

love
Debi