HI all,
I just wanted to say that God didn't author all this pain and suffering and He can't prevent our spouses (or us) from making horrible choices to sin. I think we don't realize how our actions affect the lives of others, even the seemingly insignificant ones.

Personally, if I knew someone would think (BS) that I "ruined" their life, I might have pondered my actions. Back then, I was in reaction mode--act selfish now, react to the consequences later. Not good, I know. And I was backslidden also. I'm not proud of that, just the way it was.

Nobody in our situation pushed for contact but I did file for CS 5 years down the road. I prayed, prayed, prayed that CS would not be a burden on that family. And all I heard after that was about MM getting promotion after promotion after promotion until he made VP! Amazing--God is...

MM wasn't/isn't saved but I still believe for laborers to be in his path. angelia, you said you resent having to navigate your way through circumstances you didn't create, try not to resist. Be open to the ways God is leading you through. He is calling you to higher ground. I mean like above the storm clouds where the skies are clear. And yes, it is a one-step-at-a-time journey. His grace is sufficient. You believe it, now's the time to receive it.

The quickest way to the top, is down... on our knees. He will get you through this mess. If He could get me through it, after my unfaithfulness to Him, I know He will show Himself strong on your behalf.

I'll be back soon!

How can you be a witness when you are in the heat of a battle yourself? Well, I think you are doing well by not denying your feelings. I think it is good when WS shows remorse and goes the extra mile to make sure WS knows how deeply they hurt the BS and works hard to regain BS' trust. I believe it's good to acknowledge your feelings and be in touch with your emotions but I don't think you should be governed by your feelings. Feelings are fickle. The Proverbs 31 woman (remember her?) she relies on the Holy Spirit for stability. He is our stabilizer. We don't have to get on the crazy emotional rollercoaster that sits before us in everyday life, especially after an affair. We can just say no! and hide ourselves in Him.

Those are my thoughts... That, plus--Have you ordered Surviving An Affair by Dr.Harley yet? If not, you should!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTDT made a point that I had forgotten to comment on:

That's the bit about destroying another person's life. In the throws of my EMA it never occured to me that I was "destroying" the life of another person.

THe first time I ever even heard of such a thing was here. At first reading I thought "what drama queens." I don't see people who feel that way as drama queens anymore, but I can honestly say that I don't full understand the thinking. It just seems to me that you'd have to be giving away a lot of power to have someone "destroy" your life.

I hope that doesn't sound judgemental. It's not meant to be.

BTDT: On my knees....I have been there often and I just don't hear God. My head tells me all the stuff you said is so true BUT and it's a BIG BUT, my heart is breaking. I don't feel the same about my H. As pops said...that look isn't there anymore. As Gem says....it will NEVER be the same. Can it be better? I don't know if it will be. And I say that because years down the road for all these wonderful people here on this board they still deal with it.

I do love my H - but even that is different now. That naive, you're so wonderful, love is GONE - whoosh, out the door!

The days are getting better and I am totally allowing myself to grieve this.

Gem, I guess you're right....a few more years won't kill me to stick around and see how it goes. And yes, my inner heart is telling me to run - I personally think it would be easier. I know that all people come with some kind of baggage but I think Pops mentioned it in a previous thread that in those situations at least the 'baggage', 'kids', or whatever is usually on the table ahead of time. This 'baggage' has been forced on the BS by a WS.

I will be honest and just say I DON"T KNOW how this is gonna turn out. I feel like I am in a complete daze. I function, I am not depressed, I have not turned to alcohol or drugs and I have not and am not going to have any affair of my own. Right now I don't feel so loving, I don't feel like forgiving and I don't feel like giving him a chance. Right now I don't care about ow and oc. Right now I wish they'd all fall off the earth (ouch, that sounded horrible).

Anyway, I am waiting on God to help me. like I said - I just don't feel him. I don't feel any of the peace he's promised, I don't feel any of the burden removing, yoke destroying power of God right now. (Can't remember where that verse is)

Matthew and BTDT seem to me to be far ahead of me in this Christianity and this A thing. I am just bitter and angry. I don't want to be that in two or more years - with or without him. I want to feel complete and whole again. I want to feel love in my life like used to be there. I want to not have the weight of this on my shoulders.

BTDT, you said .....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> angelia, you said you resent having to navigate your way through circumstances you didn't create, try not to resist. Be open to the ways God is leading you through. He is calling you to higher ground. I mean like above the storm clouds where the skies are clear. And yes, it is a one-step-at-a-time journey. His grace is sufficient. You believe it, now's the time to receive it.

The quickest way to the top, is down... on our knees. He will get you through this mess. If He could get me through it, after my unfaithfulness to Him, I know He will show Himself strong on your behalf.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't have a choice. The holy spirit is TUGGING at my heart or my head. I find myself searching more for God than I do dealing with this crap. I am searching Him for answers - what is it HE wants me to do....See, I am so torn about the ability to get a divorce because God says I can...And I have to wonder (as many of those who e-mail me have heard me ask)...maybe God is saying, Angelia, it's okay - leave the bum!

Yes, I know God has better things planned for me - I just wish he'd hurry up and reveal them and take this pain away for me.

Thanks for listening

Angelia

Pops it's ok you put in your 2 cents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My H also longs for "that look" and has verbalized how he knows I will never be the same and how it bothers him. I wish for that feeling to return but as of yet it hasn't.

angelia I'm glad we understand each other. You aren't doing or thinking anything different than the rest of us have in the past.

Katie Scarlett and BTDT,
What I meant by destroying my and our S's life was mentally .
Our S is an only c.
With all of his depression that winter along with mine, I was afraid of him falling off the edge again. That would have destroyed me.

When ow had a boy, we (S and I) cried together and held each other. His fear (to this day it comes out when H and S have a disagreement "maybe you should go see your other son, maybe he'll do it right" H just remains quiet after that.), was H was going to have a replacement S, one who might do bigger or greater things than S has to this point. He felt a failure for his depression...felt stupid because at his age, all his buddies went out and had a few beers...he couldn't....alas he was 21 now and couldn't have a beer. He had to take pills and blamed his Dad for his breakdown, sadness, changing a life he thought was safe, embarrassment of what Dad had done and in our small circle everyone knew, all of S's friends.

We were the place all of his misplaced friends came to. S's friends envied S and the great Mom and Dad he had. We were happy, or so I thought.

That's what I meant by "destroy".

No longer that way around here. S's friends still come around, S is happy we've made it through the storm.
Our DIL and granddaughter are more than I had hoped for.

Their wedding was the most fun we'd had in years.

I remember thinking H had taken away the future and sharing milestones with our S together on D-day. It was something I said to him..."how nice when our S gets married we'll be like the Jerry Springer show, divorced and standing in receiving line apart, and you did this!" And S wasn't planning wedding yet!

That was then and this is now.

Just wanted to explain as the word "destroy" was the one that came to mind 2 years ago.
I think now it's "altered"..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

love
Debi

It was a mess around here. Nothing was safe, everything was "destroyed", if you will.

Gem-

I guess it's just a loaded topic for me in general. You see my mom was a BS and was honestly destroyed by my father's infidelity. Has was a wreck and made a very dramatic suicide attempt. He married TOW anyway and went to live with her and OC (my little sister).

I was a little kid and didn't fully "get" what it was all about back them. As I got older I just felt mad at my mother for pining after my father the way she did. I resented her "i'm the victim" stance and was mad that she didn't just get on with her life.

It's 32 years later and she still hates TOW. TOW was my father's second wife. He's now had 5. She likes or at least feels sorry for the other xW's, but she HATES wife #2.

So when I came here and I read "my life is/was destroyed..." I thought "how weak."

These days I think that some people just have a different/more idealzed view of marriage than I do. I never think that forever (as it relates to marriage) means "forever." If it works out to be til death do us part-cool. But if not, sadly, not.

If you truely in your heart believe in forever I could see how an EMA would be pretty devastating.

Katie:

I can totally understand why you would view us as 'weak' women but we are not.

This is a second marriage for me but I can tell you even at that I thought this one would be forever because I love him. My first husband and I did not love each other.

This marriage and this man I believed was my soul-mate. I believed he and I would have a future. I believed our marriage bed would always be sacred. I believed I could be his 'ho' behind closed doors as well as his 'lady' in public. I believed our good and bad times would be just those normal things in marriage.

I didn't know he fit the classic conflict avoider affair type. I didn't know that he would be so easily tempted when the least little thing went wrong. I didn't know that he was the weak one.

Katie, part of the reason I post here is to help me. Yes, I view myself as a victim sometimes because I am. You can do all the self-help stuff you want to see what you contributed to the demise of the marriage but in the end...I chose to be faithful and he didn't. I post here to relieve my anger, to relieve my pain, to learn from others and maybe somewhere down the road years from now, I'll be able to help someone else.

Katie, I had a pretty messed up childhood - bio father didn't want me (he and mom were married), then adopted father comes along and decides he wants to sexually abuse me and mom decides she believes him and can't live without him. Hmmmmmm. I too have no tolerance for women who stay in bad situations and now I find myself in a bad situation. If I was giving advice to someone else in this situation I'd tell them honestly to forgive (get it all out, grieve, etc) and then leave! (But that's a newbie talking - not some of the experienced veterans)

I don't know if I feel like the ow destroyed my life but I certainly feel like my H did. I don't really blame the hoochie...yes, she knew he was married and didn't care but I do blame him. I blame him because HE knew he was married. She didn't have magical fairy dust that she waived over him. He could have said NO but chose not to.

And, I guess all in all I don't feel like he destroyed my life because in the end I'll be okay. I will not die over this. I will not end up in financial ruin over this because I could leave his behind right now (we have NO kids together) and be JUST FINE!!!! But, for now, I'm gonna do like Gem says and give it a little bit of time.

Katie: Are you married or have you ever been married? (I'm not asking to start any crap..just wonder) I think that even if he and I weren't married that I would still feel betrayal - I don't think I could say 'cool' it's okay. And, I think that when you stand up before God and give your life to someone you should think that it's forever. I don't think any one really enters into a marital commitment with the thought that it's divorce do us part...ya know?

p.s. what is an ema? Did I miss that one?

Angelia

<strong>Katie: Are you married or have you ever been married? (I'm not asking to start any crap..just wonder) I think that even if he and I weren't married that I would still feel betrayal - I don't think I could say 'cool' it's okay. And, I think that when you stand up before God and give your life to someone you should think that it's forever. I don't think any one really enters into a marital commitment with the thought that it's divorce do us part...ya know?

p.s. what is an ema? Did I miss that one?</strong>

No I am not married and I never have been. I have been engaged 3-4 times. It seems that others think me the marrying type. I just think I may be to cynical for marriage.

I have had several long term relationships, and have cheated in most of them. The longest of which was a 10 year EMA (extra-marital affair). I honestly believed that he was my soul mate. The ended it about 18 months ago.

xMM and I promised to love one another forever. That version of till death do us part I happen to believe in. I still love what he was for me and what I was for him. We are not together and that is as it should be. But the love for him I hold in my heart is alive and well.

ACIM teaches : the holy spirit will only keep 2 people together for the period of time that they will receive the maxium benefit out of physical proximity. Then they appear to seperate.

It also teaches: what God has joined together, no man can put assunder

What that means for me is that - he (xMM) and I have joined on a spiritual level. We no longer enjoy physical proximity (as I refuse to see him) but that love lives on and cannot be taken away.

Katie: What is ACIM? I know in a previous post you eluded to something other than "God" but that it is your spiritual journey...Interested to know what it is.

Anyway, I have read some of your other posts on other boards.

I personally think your cheating in most of your relationships has something to do with childhood experiences or lack of self-esteem (although I'm not sure that fits you because you APPEAR to have lots of self-esteem although it could be well masked) I think you are very aware of what you are doing so what is that which makes you cheat????

Anyhoooo...I don't think anyone is too cynical to be in love and to commit to someone for a lifetime.

Chat with ya soon!!!!

Angelia

ACIM is A Course In Miracles (http://www.acim.org/)

I think you're right about my cheating. More than anything I think it's part of an addictive patern that I fell into long ago.

I am quite sure of myself coupled with bouts of ZERO self esteem. Although the swings between the 2 have all but disappeared in recent years.

I'm not the sort to find myself in an EMR, then look around and go "how did I get here." I've always done it willingly and with my eyes open. It was a means to an end for me. Definately calculated about allll about power for me.

I am in a loving monogomous relationship right now. (i'm always willing to try something new <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

We may be together for a lifetime. Maybe not. WE really really take it a day at a time. If I look back and discover that we were together till death us do part-cool. If not, I honestly hope that I look back on my time with this man as having gained more than I lost. That's how I feel about xMM.

1 thing I forgot

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by angelia:
<strong>
Anyhoooo...I don't think anyone is too cynical to be in love and to commit to someone for a lifetime.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's true, but I think i'm too cynical to have that moon eyed, far off look in your eyes approach about it.

I love my partner very much. ANd when we're done i'll miss him very much. That end could come with death. It could come through some other form of seperation. In the meantime, I hope for the best, plan for the worst and try not to worry about it too much.

Katie,

Something about your post made me feel sad for you.

I feel sad that you have not yet learned to give you heart completely. It sounds as if you've never allowed youself to ejoy what it feels like to trust your heart to another human being.

But I do understand how that thought may not appeal to you and therefore you don't feel like you are missing anything.

I guess it's like someone who's allergic to shellfish. It's not too much of a big deal to someone who doesn't enjoy fish or a vegetarian. I on the other hand ADORE shell fish and would feel a lifelong yearning for shell fish.

Some people are in love with the idea of being in love. I for one am one of those people. I come from a divorced home with a father who was a serial cheater. I have always longed for a faithful loving husband. But was cheated out of that dream. I have also always longed for a relationship without doubts about the future. I have none now.

I sure hope your mate is not a person like me. I'd be devastated to hear my spouse say some of the things you said.

Not flaming, just thinking aloud. Hope you didn't take offense.

Z.

KatieScarlett, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

posted January 16, 2003 02:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gem-

I guess it's just a loaded topic for me in general. You see my mom was a BS and was honestly destroyed by my father's infidelity. Has was a wreck and made a very dramatic suicide attempt. He married TOW anyway and went to live with her and OC (my little sister).

I was a little kid and didn't fully "get" what it was all about back them. As I got older I just felt mad at my mother for pining after my father the way she did. I resented her "i'm the victim" stance and was mad that she didn't just get on with her life.

It's 32 years later and she still hates TOW. TOW was my father's second wife. He's now had 5. She likes or at least feels sorry for the other xW's, but she HATES wife #2.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ow took away her love, her soul mate, the man she believed in. Ow #2 was the end to her life w/a man she loved. After that she "felt sorry" for others because she wasn't involved in any way and knew what they went through.

You read about my Mom and Lou Gehrigs?

She's dying.

She had an A w/insurance man and left my Dad in my senior year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> didn't marry om but made us a part of his life....MM died in 86 w/o his D's never seeing him again...they were old enough to know....Never forgot....hurt or destroyed beyond belief.

My Dad is with her now ,as are my sisters, in her darkest hours...that is why she has a soft spot for H......

I feel so awful for you.
Yet your Mom WAS a victim!She trusted, look where it got her....
See what we mean when we say WS and MM or WS and MW have no concept in what havoc they play on existing C's and their future? You existed!

Why do you think you haven't commited to a relationship yet? A matter of trust and believing the man will take you and love you above all others.
Has XMM? No.

Why do you think no matter w/H or another, I won't trust again? I believed and will not do that for anyone again...too school-girl-ish...

I only trust God. HE will take me through this all.

I wish to God though I never knew what I know now.
I wish for that naive girl, who went into hiding never to show her trusting face again...but that girl who has been burned beyond repair is gone w/the past...Do not cry for her for she played her role for 26 years as she should...a new face has appeared and now must play games the rest of her life no matter who she is with...the new girl's name is MissTrust.

MissTrust still will never do the" wild thing" outside of marriage, but toys w/the idea now.

She knows now that fairy tales are just that..a bunch of shi*!


I am sorry for us all....

thanks Katie for your honesty.... I like to hear that...I have grown to the real world and have realized nothing is perfect....nothing....
love
Debi

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gemini1:
<strong>KatieScarlett, [QUOTE]

You read about my Mom and Lou Gehrigs?

</strong>

THis took me a minute. When I read it I though you meant that your mother was having an A with Lou Gehrig. I was sitting here thinking, isn't he dead! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm so sorry to hear about your mom.
<strong>
I feel so awful for you.</strong>
I don't get that. Why?

<strong>
Yet your Mom WAS a victim!She trusted, look where it got her....</strong>

Exactly, so you can see why i'm not big on the whole trust thing.

<strong>
See what we mean when we say WS and MM or WS and MW have no concept in what havoc they play on existing C's and their future? You existed!</strong>
This is my issue with my parents situation. #1 I think that my mother was FAR to idealistic and naive. She really loved him and wanted to get married. She pushed for it (her words not mine). She figured once he made the vow things would be cool. THey made the vow, 3 months in he meets OW and begins an affair. She figured "i'll work out". They have my sister and things are cool for a while. Things get rocky and me leaves. Says he wants a divorce. Says he's with OW, but keeps sleeping with my mother. She secretly goes off the pill and gets pregnant with me. Her theory was that she wanted 2 children and she didn't want more than one father for her children. She never tells him she's pregnant, but he finds out when she's 5 months along. He's FURIOUS and moves out. Moves in with his 19 year old OW. I am born. He tells everybody that i'm not his, while she's saying "lets work it out." OW gets pregnant and my mother offers to let him come home and adopt the baby. My father refuses, divorces my mother, marrys OW.

Now this is the story SHE TOLD ME. He won't give his version.

It just seems like a lot of manipulation to me. She wanted love (completely understandably) and support and to be able to say that she was married." No question that she loved him, but clearly there were other forces at work here too.

MY mother as victim? I have a hard time buying that one. Sure she got done wrong, but she needs to take some ownership in the mess to. To sit around for 30 years like "look what he did to me" is a giant load of BS in my opinion.

<strong>Why do you think you haven't commited to a relationship yet?</strong>

I have. I'm in a loving and committed relationship now.

<strong>I only trust God. HE will take me through this all. </strong>

Amen to that one!!!!!!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THis is the thing, I loved and trust a man blindly. He was my first love. I was 18. He waited until I was ready to have sex. We had a wonderful, warm relationship for 4 years. We began a physical relationship 3 years in. I thought, how wonderful, a man who is willing ot meet me where i'm at and wait.

I had planned to become his wife and make a life with him. I discovered that he was gay and was having a relationship with a man that was HIV+. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess it's fair to say that that's when that naive girl died in me.

The kicker is that (#1-I am HIV- THANK GOD!), but #2-I DO trust. I HAVE given my heart to my current partner.

But in the mean time, I have made my own way. I set out to get the things that I wanted and needed. I have a great career, I have beautiful homes, a wonderful child, etc. I went out and got everything that I thought I was missing. MM filled the lonliness and sex piece for me. I didn't really need him for much of anything else.

And when I was ready to have a REAL relationship, I got one. I have one now.

Will I marry him? Who knows. What we have is beautiful and works for us. (it's very Oprah and Stedman) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm 32. There is still time for me to decide. To my thinking (and I hope this doesn't offend anybody on here) I figured out at 30, what it took some of you guys 30 years to figure out.

I don't have to trust my partner as much as I trust God. It is she who never fails me. Has never cheated, never left me and has carried me through. So i'm free to love and feel safe and happy and fulfilled.

And I do.

Maybe some people here won't get that, but I do.

Be well
ks

Oh, and one last thing about my parents. More than I wanted for them to be married, I needed for them to act responsibly and stop all of the name calling bull.

My step mom (OW#1) and I are still close. What happened between her and my mom is between them. I don't care to take sides.

Them acting maturely would have gone a LONG WAY for ALL of the kids involved!

This topic upsets me no end.

I don't think we BS are drama queens.

What happened to us is the worst drama imaginable. I couldn't have written a better script.

I do feel like a victim. A victim is defined as "one harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency or condition."
We BS have been harmed by the Affair between our spouses and the OP.

We had no say as to the start of ,duration, and length of these acts. The involved partners in the affair made all these decisions, and subsequently harmed us, caused us to suffer. We are suffering. I suffer still, and I am in year 3 of my alleged recovery.

I despise the OW in my case. As much as I ever have despised anyone. She has completely disregarded my presence over and over, for her needs and wants and convenience. My H did the same during the affair, and I have hated him as well. He at least admits where he went wrong, but OW never has.

Let me make this clear. I despise OW and she is on the very top of people I hate-a very short list I might add. But even, given that, I would never ever hurt her as she has hurt me. It is so awful a pain and suffering that I have experienced that I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy-- the OW.

Katie, perhaps you find it difficult to recognize that your father's mistake ruined parts of your life. That perhaps your mother never got over OW because it hurt too darm much. Because no one, including you, seemed to see the pain she suffered at the acts perpetrated by your father and OW.

Perhaps OW cannot see our pain and label it instead as "drama"--overzealous drama at that--because to do so would imply they caused others pain. Maybe they just cannot admit that.

And yes, I suppose the OW do feel pain as well.But they caused their pain. The BS did not.

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]</small>

UW,

If you're in a vulnerable or emotional place I would strongly suggest that you not read what I wrote here. I don't want to hurt or upset you. But this is my opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unhappy wife:
<strong>This topic upsets me no end.

I don't think we BS are drama queens.</strong>

UW, it's clear that your pain is still pretty fresh (even 3 years later) and i'm sorry for that. In that pain you may have missed where I said that I USED to think that BS's were being drama queens, but no longer.

<strong>I do feel like a victim. A victim is defined as "one harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency or condition."
We BS have been harmed by the Affair between our spouses and the OP.</strong>

There is no question there. What I take issue with AS IT RELATED TO MY MOTHER, not you, not anybody else on MB, but MY very OWN mother, is the fact that she could not move past it even 30 some odd years later. She has explained it to me time and time again and I just don't understand. I've had some pretty terrible things happen in my life and in time I needed to move past them just so that I could have some quality of life. If the same was not true for MY MOTHER, God bless her. Her life is hers to live. Not mine.

<strong>Katie, perhaps you find it difficult to recognize that your father's mistake ruined parts of your life.</strong>

I recognize that. I accept that my life is what it is. There's nothing I can do to change what happened. The only "fix" for me now is to live well.

<strong>That perhaps your mother never got over OW because it hurt too darm much. Because no one, including you, seemed to see the pain she suffered at the acts perpetrated by your father and OW.</strong>

Maybe you're right. And this much time later, there's nothing for she and I to say about it. I'm sad that she's not over it. And if she's able to hang on to this level of pain and still live a meaningful life, God Bless her. I honestly don't know what else to say. At the same time, as a kid I felt like her paralyzing pain kept her from being the best mother she could have been to us. I resented that what he began she continued. He caused her pain NO QUESTION and she, for what ever reason could not find a way to move out of it. IT like Betty Broderick. The xH and OW are dead, the kids are grown, everyone has moved on and she still screaming (from jail) "I AM THE VICTIM!" I just don't get it. I try hard not to judge it, but I don't understand.

<strong>Perhaps OW cannot see our pain and label it instead as "drama"--overzealous drama at that--because to do so would imply they caused others pain. Maybe they just cannot admit that.</strong>

I can't speak for all OW, but I can see the pain that I caused his wife. I'm sorry for her pain.

<strong>And yes, I suppose the OW do feel pain as well.But they caused their pain. The BS did not.
</strong>

I see this quote again and again and again here on this board. ANd while it is 100% true everytime I read it I think "yes and what now."

Additionallly, ever time I read that same recitation of facts I think "he or she is not done mourning yet" and I leave it alone.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Kstie, yes, I did see where you had writtent that once you felt BS were drama queens, but no longer.

Still, I think it is a painful issue. I can understand your mother's change in personality, the pain your father's betrayal caused her. I liken this to the worst thing that has happened to me, barring the death of one of my children. It hurts that much. It has taken much away from me. I am hurting, but I do move on.

But will I ever be the same? I think not. I can identify with your mother, who seems to have lost some mothering capability because of the pain she felt. I hear you were jipped of that. I understand that. I see myself as a different mother at times-a mommy who can not mother as she once did, because I hurt, I am sad, I am despondent, and I no longer feel towards my H as I once did. I resent that. I resent that my kids now worry when I am sad, and they worry we will divorce. The A and the OC has done this to all of us.

And what makes it hard to move on? I will tell you-the OC. Fair or not. My family now has a weird connection to the OC and OW, two people I had nothing to do with and now everything to do with. I resent that. I will always resent the OW, as your mother did.

Can I get passed this? I don't know. I don't know if my marriage can.Even my in-laws think I should kick my H out. They have a point. This is a devastating trauma to a marriage.

I am vulnerable, but not destroyed.But the A and oC has many victims, my own kids included, and it takes a lot of prisoners. Too many, too many for the alleged joy of the affair for its participants.

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]</small>

hmmm.

No offense UW, but there's nothing for me to say to all of that. I think that each person sees it from their own side.

I know that my mother was initially upset when I became TOW. VERY upset. She never was supportive of it, but more or less said "Love him, but more importantly just love yourself."

More than anything I think she resents the fact that she gave sooo very much of herself to my father (a man who had no respect for that or failed to see that as a gift). It was a gift.

I looked at my mother leading this life so limited by her pain and my father seemed to be kicking up his heels. I think I over identified with him and came to resent my mother.

I was mad that she was sad for sooo long. Espically since he seemed to just get over it and move on. I wanted to be just like him. And I guess in a certain way I am.

I dont "just get over it" but I do in fact get over stuff. Maybe some stuff that I shouldn't, I just do. I can't imagine being incumbered by all of the old stuff. I forgive pretty easily. I even forgave the guy who knowing exposed me to HIV. For my personality I just had to.

I guess we all are who we are meant to be. And sometimes we learn lessons from our parents that they never knew they were teaching.

God bless you and your family UW.

KatieScarlett,
Oh! I see now. I didn't know the whole story behind your parents. I see what you mean about your Mom not letting go after 30 years/and Betty Broderick...two different women, but the same "victim" stance, huh?

Thanks for the laugh about my Mom and Lou having an A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And thanks for the sentiments about her hideous disease..... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I felt awful for you because you were in the middle of that situation growing up. You did well though.

You are still a young pup. You'll be ok.

Now can I be sorry for something else? HIV. I am sorry for that.

You keep on going w/your higher power Katie. SHE rocks for you.

Again, thanks for the heart to heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

love
Debi