Adgirl, your husband sounds like he is confused about how to handle the situation. He took her to church because he wanted to share with her something that had suddenly been laid upon his heart. He needs to realize that sometimes helping others is not healthy for you and that there are other ways to go about it. For example, he could encourage someone else to take her to church!! There are other ways for him to do what HE THINKS is right for the child too. For example, maybe ow's husband would be a super father to that child. Or maybe you and he could have regular visitation. Either way, (c or nc) he needs to be a man and put his foot down in regards to contact with her. Even being a full-time dad DOES NOT require him to have contact with ow. A third party (you or someone else) can facilitate all exchanges etc. Plan B might help your situation if you are very strong when you say "I love you and am willing to have contact or no contact with oc (whatever you two agree is best for your marriage) but I will NOT have a relationship with you while you are seeing ow." Tell him that you are willing to be the go-between or whatever, but that his contact with her must stop.

Yours seems to be remorseful, but confused as to how to handle it. Mine rarely shows remorse. My husband has had so many flings. He starts these things by just being friendly at the convenient store or wherever or maybe even stopping to help someone with their car. I went so far as to say that he might have to be rude and not talk to people or not be helpful in order to protect us. He disagreed and thought that was ridiculous. I figure cold-turkey was the way to go. As an alcoholic you don't go into a bar and say I won't drink; it's just too tempting. You set limits that might seem ridiculous because you are protecting yourself.

This really is different than the kind of affairs that we normally think of. And I agree that it is like an addiction. He uses a female to make him feel better for awhile, someone to say thank you for helping me you wonderful man and poor you that your wife hated your kids (from a previous relationship of course) and poor you that she left you and poor you that you try so hard and and get no respect. He gets that emotional high for a bit, then she starts wanting more (which interferes with his home life) and he gets uncomfortable and starts making excuses to her and finally just drops her. But soon there is another pretty face needing help or willing to listen or admiring him for something or other.

I know that something IN HIM has to change, but so far he seems to only make periodic attempts to be clean and other times he only tries to hide the female better. One thing that aggravates me is that he always denies even when the facts are there (which makes me wonder what else he lies about). I have no doubt that he loves me. And I am positive that he wants me and this family. But is he willing to put up ridiculous barriers to keep from straying?

And then I know that if indeed I walked away, he would rationalize that of course this happened to him again because he's a loser and he didn't deserve any better. His remorse is short-lived at best because it is what he has always known and expected. He sees no benefit in a different way of life. My friend said to me it's the same as he has always felt about his money. If he gets paid weekly, he may be rich the first week. Then the next week he gets paid again, but bills are due that week so he's poor. But he doesn't really miss it. It's just the way it is. I can be really good to him and do everything he wants and treat him wonderfully and he knows he's rich. But then he finds a fling and in essence has to pay. There's no remorse though. It's just the way it is.

pops,

You're right, once "out of the fog", the ones that go through recovery are usually remorseful (although you'll still see plenty who are not "fully remorseful"). I was referring to the fact that most discoveries do not "clear the fog" immediately.

MO5

In your husband's case, it's the realization of serial cheating is wrong and stopping it that is the issue. In general, serial cheating needs to be treated very much like a substance abuse situation---and Harley's recommendation would (likely) be a very short Plan A followed by Plan B, if the cheating continues.

Michele,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems in my experience that it is definitely an addiction- like a kid who can't stop digging in the cookie jar. But that is why I would think Plan B would work a heck of a lot more than Plan A. Does anyone besides me get sick of dealing with it and sometimes think, Geez, why spend so much energy on someone who doesn't care? But then I realize that I am becoming a different person and changing myself in positive ways, so I guess it can be worth it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Harley tends to focus his methodology on what works and what doesn't work. The "tough love/immediate Plan B" methodology will work in a percentage of cases. These tend to be a subset of cases in which Plan A/Plan B would work---in other words, when a separation occurs, the WS realizes the mistake and feels safe in coming back to the marriage and hopeful that it's not going to be a disaster.

Plan A addresses liabilities in the marriage that the Betrayed can address. For example---in my case, I was definitely guilty of lovebusting (selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts) in the marriage. Does this excuse my wife's decision to have an affair? ABSOLUTELY NOT. On the other hand, did it contribute to her state of feeling unloved, so that she was vulnerable to an affair? I'm sure it did. I would say that I was, in several ways, "responsible" for my wife's affair. Not responsible for the decision, but certainly in creating the environment in which it happened.

For me, Plan A was designed to address the lovebusters and eliminate them. It was designed to attempt (unsuccessfully, I might add) to negotiate my wife out of the affair. It was not what she expected---she expected to be treated with more lovebusting than before (and thereby justifying her actions to have an affair, in her mind). Instead, to the best of my abilities I attempted to NOT give her what she expected, and instead tried to treat her with love and kindness, and give her reason to hope for our marriage.

I don't see this as being a doormat at all, rather, I see it as learning good relationship skills and applying them under very trying circumstances. It is an opportunity to grow and change in positive ways, as you have noticed. Plan A is always of limited duration---you want to leave before you can't take any more, or before you lose all of your love for your spouse. When I went to Plan B, I was 99% sure that our marriage was over---that I had spent my effort on someone who was too far gone. I had seen very little reason to hope.

But I got my chance at reconciliation (when she got pregnant, ironically). The affair was ending (and badly). But---and this is the big BUT, my wife told me that she would have never asked me to come back, had it not been for the Plan A effort. It had a huge effect on her. I couldn't see any evidence of that, while I was in it. This is where the investment of Plan A pays off---and where the "tough love" strategy fails (and Dobson is currently advocating more of a Plan A/Plan B approach now, I believe).

Bottom line---just because you think your WS doesn't care doesn't mean anything. How they feel about it is the important aspect. And while they're having an affair, it's unlikely that you'll get the truth on that.

Woww,, good post, K!

And a great explaination. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Aimee,
Thank you for your insight on my situation. you are probably right about the church ordeal. I didn't think of it that way so I appreciate it. I have written the Plan B letter and I wrote in there that if he wanted to work on the marriage, we would together, with prayer and honesty, figure out the best way to deal with OC. I have told him before that I would have to be the go-between- no contact with the OW. She would really hate that I think. Oh well, so would I but I would deal with it. Her ex was going to reconcile with her but she decided she didn't want to because she wants my ex-H and her and OC to be a family. I told him in the letter that I could not communicate with him ever again unless contact with OW stopped.
I am so sorry about your WH. I can't imagine dealing with someone who is not remorseful at all. HE sounds like he truly has a sexual addiction. It hurts a lot to always have to wonder what they lie about, doesn't it? I know the feeling. You said you had no doubt he loves you. Why do you not doubt that? I hope that you don't think I am trying to hurt you or judge the situation, because I just want to help, but how is he showing love to you? Is he doing anything to help you emotionally? These are questions I ask myself too about my WH. I would think both of our H's would be willing to put up any barriers we needed, to reassure us and to build trust.
So if you walk away, he feels sorry for himself and plays the old tune of "he is a loser" huh? Well isn't he acting like one with his outrageous behavior? Here he has this wonderful W who wants to forgive and love him, and he is being an idiot. Are you both Christians? I just wondered because my faith is the only thing that has kept me going at times. I will be praying for you and your H. How did you get full custody of OC? That is pretty unusual, I just wondered where the mother is. I felt that I could have handled full custody, for the sake of the child, if need be.
Take care.
Michele

K,
You said that plenty of WS are still not fully remorseful. That is what terrifies me about even trying to pick up the pieces- how will you ever really know? Is it just a risk you take? It does seem that once you pull back, the other one wants to come to you. I guess that is our human nature. I am guilty of lovebusting in the same ways you mentioned, and I hate it. I can see what you mean about Plan A now when you tell me like that. I know I am not responsible for the affair, yet i know I could have done more to make our marriage safer and happier. Which is why I am so determined to change my ways to an extent, with God's help and my perserverence. I know that no matter what, I need to become a better me.
Thanks for your help!
Michele

I just wanted to let everyone know that I mailed off the plan B letter today. He will get it tomorrow. I haven't talked to him since Monday anyway, but I wrote in Plan B letter that I would not even be contacting him about our house. That if we got calls on the house I would have someone else call him to see if he could be there to show it. I don't know who that "someone else" is because everyone is so mad at him that I am afraid to ask anyone to talk to him, but I know that I will figure something out when the time comes. I feel better actually. Released. Feel like I am letting go, and letting God take control. I was nice but firm. Thanks for all your help.
Adgirl48(Michele)
Married 11/4/00 together since 7/97
DDay 8/20/02 (had happened for only 2 weeks- 4x)
Separated 9/8/02
Kept going back and forth until 11/02 he finally said it was over with us.
he started DP 12/02
Then started coming back
D-day #2 02/15/03- found out about OC- he had known since 12/15/02
Divorce final 3/03
Still praying, still seeking God's will- implemented Plan B because ex-h is a "cake eater"-wavering between OW and me and what to do about OC