Lynn:
Do you only read what you want to read and the rest is a blur. Let me spell it out for you. YES the uh has the right to nc. I don't dispute that in anyway shape or manner. It is my thoughts as which for my reasons I have this right to feel this way (as you have the right to feel your way) that he is a coward. As far as oc being in the uh home and the wife being in control. I never mentioned a word about that. I'm sure I have feelings about that if I felt an exterme was on the horizon, but basically if that were to happen, uh and w are visiting with the child, the w is the step mother and should be involved. What I said was when it comes to decisions regarding the child this child has a mother and father and the w has no right to try and control the ow position there and step in because she is afraid of contact between uh and ow. You have chosen to keep uh and you need to trust him. I know myself I don't want a relationship with uh anymore. He showed his true colors. I learned my lessons from this horrid mess. I'll be hurt for awhile but my main concern is my child and protecting my child as I do my two I already have. Nothing more nothing less. Just as you say we as ow show no feelings towards you......I'd say that is a 2 way street. How can you expect something from someone that your not doing yourself? It's not going to happen. If you show respect you'll get it hopefully. I know there are some people who are cruel and cause problems I really believe that a lot of ow just want whats best for there kids. I know it would be very hard for me to see my xmm being a daddy with my child and his w sharing in that after all that went on in our a, but I also know my first concern is my child and I have to respect that this is the situation and that is part of his family and it's for the best. If nc is the way he wants it then I just don't have to worry about it then do I? But I would do what is best for my child. My kids come first. My stbxh loves his kids with all his heart but has no clue what putting his kids first means. I have no choice but to accept that fact. It's just the way it is.

lj:
I am so sorry about what you've gone through. Yes I will say that lynn is right and ow is just as much to blame. I think deep down you know that, but you see what your uh has done to everyone involved. He sounds like my xmm that keeps secerts longer than need be and get himself in deeper. My xmm stills has not told w about this pregnancy let alone the affair. To his defensive ( I guess) I am high risk and have had several miscarriages in the past with xh....so I guess he is thinking why rock the boat if I don't go full term uh? He is also in couneling behind her back too. Crazymum is right though our children (all of them) are the ones that pay the ultimate price for all parties involved. Your post was very sweet and a nice change for the ow to see here.

Here we go again. YES WE ARE ALL AWARE THAT IT TAKES TWO. YES WE ARE ALL AWARE THAT THE FATHER WAS DISSING HIS OWN KIDS. YES WE KNOW THIS. I am talking about AFTER THE OC IS BORN.

What I am saying is that the OW feels that HER childs feelings are so much more important then the children in the marriage. That now that OC is here, that is all that should matter to everyone. I am asking where was HER concern for his children?

And now, suddenly the mantra is that all the adults need to do what is best for the children concerned. How noble. While MM/OW were blowing apart his childrens world, where was that thought? Only that the OC is here is it now important? The whole point of this post is that it is to damm bad if the OW doesn't like the choices that the married couple made. She is not part of their family or marriage and they need to do what is best for them.

The OW/OC are hurt? Yes. Is the OC innocent? Yes. Is the wife and her children innocent? Yes. But the MM/OW made decisions without thinking and lots of people were hurt in the process. The train has left the station and it can't come back. So, if the couple wants nothing to do with OC, that is a choice.



I

need to move on----you say you have to show respect to get respect? How is it that you intend to get respect from an BW? OW is sneaking around behind wife's back gets pregnant has oc and now thinks wife should have respect for her? Her plight? No way.

And before you go off on the oft heard "well MM didn't do this either" or "MM did that" I am not talking about MM. I am talking about OW and how they blame and blame and take no responsiblity for the destruction they have had a part in. They hide behind "the MM was dissing the wife, he didn't respect her,etc." So, since he didn't it was ok that you didn't either? So waht you are saying is that it is 100% mm fault?

Woman to woman,I don't even think you believe that.

Face it, we will never agree. The whole point of this post was for those BW who are worried about court proceedings and what to do. I am telling them that it makes no difference what the OW thinks or wants or whatever. I'm telling the BW to do what is best for them and their marriages and their families. Period. The ow's feelings mean nothing.

My point is that some OW think they can call shots and that their child should be part of the XMM's family and get to know the siblings.
This should be a decision reached by ALL (married couple and ow). If one party wants it, then it should at least be looked at.

I give her child the same amount of care and concern as she gave mine.
Okay, that's fair.

So, if the couple wants nothing to do with OC, that is a choice.
Again, that's fair if both parties in the couple want nothing to do.

That now that their child is here, all others should put their feelings aside and put those of her child above anyone and everyone.
It is also, HIS child.

YES WE ARE ALL AWARE THAT THE FATHER WAS DISSING HIS OWN KIDS.
And you demand that the father continue to diss at least one of his own kids.

It's all a difficult situation with lots of heartache and a lot of decisions to nake and deal with. But getting ticked off & demanding stuff will only get everyone more upset.

LynnG, you go girl. You are 100% right, OW need to be accountable. They made a choice to sleep with a MM that already had a family. They made a choice not to use birth control. They made a choice to have oc. As long as they receive child support they have nothing to fuss about.
Upset because MM family has nothing to do with child. Too Bad. It is called consequences. You made the choice to play now you have to pay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Boo Hoo my foot. MM is going through his own consequences. Embarressment to have fathered a child out of wed lock, not being able to provide like he used to because of finanicial obligations. Having to have a constant reminder of the mistake he made. All OW that have made the choice to keep the child now have to shoulder the responsibility of raising your child by yourself. Is it easy no, but stop the pity party women have been raising children alone for years.
For those that ask would MM ask W to have abortion? No he wouldn't, why? Because he loves her (not you), he pledged to love her in front of friends and family. He never did that with you. Married couples plan their children. MM goes to doctor visits, gives back rub. Because he WANTED to have children with his WIFE.
Why would you think that he would be happy to have a baby with you? You were a fantasy and now the fantasy is broken. Is it fair no. But YOU put yourself in that position. When you didn't think enough of yourself not to get involved with a MM, period.
You have your consequences and MM has his. Is it fair no but life isn't fair, and I am pretty sure the W who has to suffer from both of your bad choices without any choice doesn't think it fair either.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Iamsurviving ]</small>

Sorry Chris, what the OW wants or thinks has no bearing whatsoever on the decisions made in this house. Just as I was not consulted when the affair was going on.

She is a grown woman who had a child out of wedlock. PERIOD. I have no empathy or compassion for the life she has chosen for herself.

My children and their needs have always come first.

I am here, at the advice of a friend who posts on this board. I was livid that OW are on here whining about this and crying about that and all but demanding that their children be included in the MM family. How dare they assume so much is owed to them. How dare they judge anyone for their reaction to a painfull situation that the OW was 50% responsible for.

I am far far past dday. I am not in shock or hurt or pain right now. I am however, willing to be here for the BW who is in hell right now. The ones who are hurt,afraid, weak, shocked an confused. I am here to let them know that you do have power. You do have choices. And above all, the minute you hear the words pregnant other woman, run as fast as you can to the best divorce laywer you can find,even if you choose to work out your marriage and save your family. Let the laywer handle all details. No matter what you decide, but above all,protect and fight for your family, your children and your marriage if you decide to stay. Do not get swayed by the people who say this can be handled amicably. It can still be amicable, but always should be handled legally.

If you chose no contact, you can have it. You can have all checks, etc. handled through an attorney or 3rd party, set up thorugh the courts. This woman is no part of your family, and has proven in the past to have no respect for you, your children or your marriage,( and yes, she will point out everytime you bring that up that your husband didn't either, thereby making her participation in the affair justified) The oc is entitled to CS. That is law. She, however, is entitled to nothing.

If you and your husbands decide upon contact, she can't say when or where. And yes, you can be there and should. You can also pick up the child and take it here and there. She can't say that only MM can pick up, and it has to be at her home etc. The fact that it might be inconvienent to her, to bring OC to nearby restaurant,or other place is her problem, not yours. She got herself into this mess, not you. You don't even have to see or speak to her. This is where the laywer will serve you well. You and your husband can have court appointed visitation and never even see her.

The only way to have this work is with proper legal assistance. No way around it. Get it ASAP. Even if things are amicable, always always always get have a laywer. If your husband is confused then get one for sure.

The whole point of this message is that it is your life, your family and your marriage. The OW and how she feels about what you want or don't want mean nothing. If she pits a fit cause you come with your husband to pick up OC, and you are holding OC, to bad. You and he are a team. If she doesn't like it to bad. If you and he decide that NC works best, and she is running around calling grandparents, and other family memebers, this is where the laywer will do wonders. Harrasment is not legal, and your family deserves to be protected also.

You were fooled by your H and now have to live with the fallout. But you can and do have control and can get what you want. Just always do it legally and you will be ok.

Sorry Chris, what the OW wants or thinks has no bearing whatsoever on the decisions made in this house.
Seems it did have a LARGE impact on the decisions made in the house.

I'm not saying one should "just accept it" or be okay with it. Just that it is something that needs to be considered.
Just as child support will DEFINTELY impact the current household, whether you want it to or not.

Also, this is not simply about the ow. It is about the OC also. And belive it or notm this child is your husbands, the same as his children with you.

Stinks for sure, but it has to be dealt with in some way.

She is a grown woman who had a child out of wedlock.
But your h ALSO is a grown man and ALSO had a child out of wedlock.

My children and their needs have always come first
As how it should be. But the same goes for your husband.

Preach Lynn, Preach! These is something this board has been missing accountablity.
Wives if you are saving your marriage it needs to be on your terms and as Lynn so well said protect your family LEGALLY.
You don't owe the OW anything. She sure wasn't thinking of you when she was with your H.
The only thing that is a given is child support. Go through your attorney and that is it. OW is out of your hair finally. You can move away with no forwarding address only your attorney needs. You can get your life back.

These is something this board has been missing accountablity.
Is that what you are proposing?
How is a father being accountable to his children if he abandons them simply because his wife DEMANDs it?

OW feelings DO NOT MATTER
But what about the feelings of the OC?

How do you know the W is the one demanding it? Have you ever thought there is no evil W that the H never wanted to have a child with OW. Since the child is here then he'll pay but H doesn't want the reminder of the mistake he made.
The accountability lies with the OW that she made her choices now she has to deal with all of the ups and downs with it.
Did YOU think of the oc feelings when you had a baby with a man that wasn't married to you. Now YOU have to explain why the father isn't there. You have to explain to the oc that you made the choice to sleep with a man that is already married. You have to tell the child why you didn't think enough of yourself to wait until you were married to plan a family with a father that WANTED it. You had a choice. I don't give a d***, no one made you have an affair, no one made you get pregnant you are 100% responsible just as he is. You could have told him NO. Try it NO, easy isn't it.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Iamsurviving ]</small>

How do you know the W is the one demanding it?
Because that is what Lynn is implying. The OW/OC have NO say and their feelings/desires should IN NO WAY be taken into account. The wife is the one who DESERVES to call the shots BECAUSE she is the wife.

The accountability lies with the OW that she made her choices now she has to deal with all of the ups and downs with it.
The accountability lies with the ow AND the ws, whether the wife wants it or not.

By law, the husband owes child support and that is that. That is not technicaly abandoning the OC. His needs are being met by court supported CS. This man alreay has a wife and family, their needs are to come first.

As for the wife demanding anything, well of course she can. She can say anything she wants. The marriage goes through ups and downs. If they love each other and work out their problems and mistakes, only their opinions and views matter.

If part of her willingness to work out this mistake is no contact, and he, wanting to save his marriage, agrees, she has that right. It is discussed and upon. Let the laywers handle the details. Let them know what you want. It is sad sad thing that the oc probably will not know it's father. But,that is a consequence of OW actions, and the MM. His children, are growing up with a man who let their mother and them down and are hurt also.

Either way, this situation that the OW and the MM have created has hurt people, oc included. But his family should not be made to pay for his sins with contact with the oc if they chose not to. Maybe if the OW & MM had phoned the wife before they jumped in the backseat, this all could have been avoided. The pain is all around. Innocent people are hurt. OW has to own up to the fact that her participation in a sin has created a child, a child who may or may not be seen as a blessing. When she explains to oc about his roots and calls the MM a coward for not including him in his life, is she also going to say how she never cared one bit about his wife or his children? That she had unprotected sex with a man not available to her, and therefore oc? I doubt it. To many OW believe that they have no responsibility to the wife "she is his problem". Then when and oc comes, suddenly her problem (their oc) is now everyones problem and how the BW has to do this or that. That is just plain wrong. OW should take there little blessings and leave the XMM and his family alone, if that is what they want. But so many want money and the XMM to come everyother weeken, without the wife and play house, just like a little family. Where they get this thought process is simply amazing. Do they live in some paralell univererse or something? Do they have any empathy for anyone else? Do they have a conscience? No. Everytime someone calls them on responsibility for the mess they helped create, their answer is somehow twisted to say "well mm is the one who was cheating on his wife, not me", or "his marriage is his problem". Totally ignoring their own accountability towards another. Now that an OC is in the picture, suddenly MM owes them everything. Well, yes, and it's called child support and that is it. He owes you nothing, your child is your problem if you chose to keep it,as long as he sends the check. You are the one what had that baby, you knew the situation, deal with it.

Just like a few post I've read where the couple file a fony legal seperation just so the oc won't get what the oc has coming to him. There are so many double standards on this board. NO ONE said that the ow did not feel bad for there actions! NO ONE said that the w and her kids feelings don't come into play! I believe I said the interest of the kids should come first. At least the ow is not trying to play games to cover up uh responsiblities all together. Do you really really know what your uh was telling ow? Why is that every ow tried to get pregnant on purpose? Not all ow women are evil evil venditive people. As you want to put your kids needs first so does the ow with her child. As someone posted....this child regardless of it being wanted or not.......is your uh child as well. Lynn when I said about Respect....it's after the fact. No one asked you to respect the ow for what she did, but just that this is the situation and it's done. In order to get it resolved you must respect each other enough not to play games and put addional pain on each other. EVERYONE involved is in pain regardless if they deserve to be. Yes, put yourself in control of your marriage and what is best for you, but do it honestly and remember your your uh put you in this position and don't even try to control the ow and her child. That is not a legal move....it's a personal move. I also put in my post that if uh and w wanted contact that needed to be respected by the ow and know that w if a part of uh life and is the "step" mother of your oc. W will be a part of that child's life. Accept it and get along with it. It's things you have to do when you chose to stay with your uh. It's like I told uh. Things that were major issues in his marriage....I told him that she was not going to change neither was he, that he needed to stop cheating, accept things as they were, stop complainig about and live with it happily.....or leave her. Are those not the choices? Pretty simple I'd say. As far as telling my child when the time is right? What do you think my child will hate me and resent for having him/her out of wedlock and it's my fault the father is not around? I don't think so. I choice to give birth and not abort this child. His father choice to not love and be around for his/her life and abondantment him/her. Whose he's going to hate?

Once again, Chris. H is paying child support, he is being accountable. The child has not been abandoned, hungry etc.
This of course is not what OW envision, they think the MM will be there for the pregnancy, the 3 am feedings, family vacations, holidays. OW made the final choice to have the oc, they have cs and they also have to raise that child by themselves. And when the oc asks why my Dad isn't around. You get to tell the child that you had a child with a man that was married. And that didn't love you. You didn't think enough to wait until you had found someone that loved you and WANTED a child with you. That is your accountability. MM has met his to you CS, that is all you get.

Can someone please point out to me how this thread is contributing to their recovery? You have the BS at one end of the spectrum and the OW at the other end. There are two completely different perspectives here. I highly doubt that the parties involved will come to 100% agreement on the topic at hand. So, it looks like a lot of argument and finger-pointing, with no real progress. Why? Other than venting, what is the purpose of this thread? Honestly, I would like to know. If each of the members involved in this thread can just stop for a moment and think about one positive that comes from the discussion, then that's terrific. But, if you can't, maybe it's time to move on to something more productive. Please, just consider what I'm saying....please.

Good point Oh....very good point....I'm done with it. It's way past compromise on ideas and where the other is going neither of us can see it.

LynnG,

You go girl. I can see both sides of the coin but the OW is the only one who gets to control the cards. If she knows the situation and still wants to bring a child into the world she needs to deal with it. You want to talk about accountability. Ow wants me to be involved but is moving half way across the country. OW are only thinking of themselves in this situation. I will respect them for making the decision to keep the child, but they should know that they are keeping the baby based on there beliefs. No where does the father's point of view matter. It is a shame for OC, but OW just cares that it is a life not what kind of life that OC will have. OW keeping OC is only to keep a tie to the MM.

So those who don't agree child suport is enough, that man is coward to only support, are you suggesting he should make an honorable woman of OW? leave his wife and children and become permanent in OC's life?
Excuse me. But I believe paying for 18 to 21 yrs is not cowardly!
I believe he should not be part of the childs life unless the OW is neglecting that child or abusing it. Then he has a responsibility to step in.
Better for OW to be free of him except for support, and find herself a man to marry and help her raise her child! Or go it alone. She knew the risk, she took it.
Support is all MM is responsible for. To have to bring child for visitation every other week or so forth would only create more pain for his wife and family who are totally innocent here!
Many women support their children alone after divorce so OW had her choice in this matter.
I'm sure many think MM will run to divorce and marry them and many do try this trap. But it comes back to bite them in in [censored]!
I think the child would be better off adopted out to a couple who can't have children. But then some mothers cannot give up their babies.
I know a couple who just finished paying the last CS payment after 21 yrs! But they live coast apart and have saved their marriage this way.
If you can't stand the fire, better put the matches down.
I will say this, had my H gotten OW pregnant, I would have thrown him at her and let him pay me!
Fortunately, he had a vacectomy after our son was born.
I personally do not want a H who has conceived with OW, nor would I want him around our children. So I'd let them both work and pay me, waltz away merrily and never look back!
Just my opinion.
but for those who want to stayed married, pay the Ow and get lost.
LouLou