</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> God has forgiven me, my family has, even om is ok, I have forgiven myself. So forward I go to a better person, --I am not your ow, I am not your ws, I am just a woman trying to rebuild her life into something better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very well said FH. I know a majority of the people here are the BS. But some of us are the WS who is trying to fix our marriage. I also know that most here had the horrible witch of an OW who harassed you to no end. Not all OW are that way. But the biggest thing is in FH post, GOD HAS FORGIVEN. I see it would be different if we were out there still doing the same thing and rubbing it your faces, but we're not. All of us are here to heal and most are trying to do what is best for all the kids involved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will tell you what I told H xow "A woman with enough sense to lay down with a married man wants to raise a child on her own, and she wants to be talked about and she wants to be harrassed and she wants to be made to feel like nothing."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This just goes to show that the man gets away with it all and the woman is always shown as the whore. I'm a married woman who had an affair with a married man. So does that put me in this catergory? Did I want to be talked about and put down. No. What does the man get?? Pats on the back, almost no blame for what happened goes to the MM, always the woman. I know how easy it is for the BW to say get an abortion. Been there when I found out of my H OC. But its not right. My H was just as responsible for the affair as much as his OW. If he didn't want to get her pregnant he would have made sure some form of BC was used. Just like my part of my A was my responisiblity. It takes two to make a kid and I find it repulsive that in most cases the man just gets to walk away and tell the woman its her problem to deal with it. Or the BS acts like the child is the anti-christ. And no, it didn't happen in my case. I, like FH, don't haress my XMM. I leave him and his family alone. In fact it is the otherway around. It is he that haresses me.

There is so much bitterness and hatred. Everyone needs to grow up, and try to do what is best for the kids involved. And remember, what is good for one in one situation, may not be good for another.

I hope with all the harsh opinions you have got thus far, you continue to read. I am the wife of a man, whim is in the same exact spote you described. He apparently has had an affair, ongoing since last oct, they I guess got together ever few weeks/months. Long story short, he has come clean, asked my forgiveness. And because we are married, I have descided to stay with him, support him in any chioce he makes, and rebuild our marriage into a stronger one than before this mess... As far as should you conact the wife, yes, 11/2 ago when you started to sleep with her husband. Now that your prenant, she may not appreciate so much. But by now I have a feeling like myself she has been told, if no other reason than to prevent you from doing the hurting....... In my case, my husband and I have decided on finding out if the child is truely his, via prenatal paternity testing. Then if postive filing for custody if need be. YOu may want to consider if there is a way, if they are willing to take the child, to turn the child over to them. It sounds like you had it based on false pretenses, but it would be better to let it grow up in a loving two parent home. I know my self he and I can't have kids, but even thow this is or may be a result of his affair, none the less I would love it as my own.........please consider this. you will either run into one of two situations at birth, you out of greed it sounds, if you are financially they way off you said you are, will seek support, and then be forced into child custody case. Or you keep it to yourself, amnd let them go on, and forget you ever existed. But if you just can't contain yourself, you may want to still call her, but be polite...as you envaded her marriage, disrespectfully. even if he came to you. Best of luck,,,,,happily awaiting his child as my own, if proven to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bran:
<strong> I will tell you what I told H xow "A woman with enough sense to lay down with a married man wants to raise a child on her own, and she wants to be talked about and she wants to be harrassed and she wants to be made to feel like nothing."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not harrassed, or made to feel like nothing. I am supported by all members of my family, my friends and others. I made the best of a bad situation. And never EVER have I been "talked about" or harrassed. Maybe that's something that you would do to someone, but where I live - people in glass houses don't throw stones.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I personally feel that the ow shouldn't ask for anything from MM because she not only knew of the circumstances, she participated in the demise of her dignity, respect and rights as a woman having a child. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">xMM knew the risks of having an affair - and that included pregnancy. I don't ask for anything for myself - I ask it for my child. And I feel that being the male parental unit - he needs to provide for this child also. THAT is his price to pay. Mine is being a single parent. And a darn good parent at that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please make no mistake, your selfishness is not the childs fault and when it gets here you can revel in telling the c why h/s has no dad or why the dad has been M for so and so years and h/s is just so and so old. Please don't sugarcoat that just breeds more trouble be real explain how devastating living in sin is. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My son will never hear those words. Saying something like that would be to deliberately hurt him - and he doesn't need that. And as far as living in sin? Tell me you don't know people that live together before marriage? Please. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think the only ones that "live in sin" are the ones that can't see past the issues and condemn others for their actions, when not putting half the blame where it belongs. Then quote the bible, instead of practicing what they preach.
</strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by full house:
I wish I could see more constructive help, not grounding someone in the dirt

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This pregnant OW (J's Girl) ... subject of this thread ... was willing to take a very NON-constructive and NON-loving action herself. She was willing to personally grind into the dirt the feelings of MM's wife.

Where is her compassion? Where is yours?

Her question was bogus. Should she tell the MM's wife about the pregnancy to spare the wife future pain? An obvious bogus phoney question.

A scorned woman seeking to lash out by stabbing another woman in the heart. Is this where we might place our compassion? On her revenge scheme?

Pep

How old are you anyway. What is your husband saying about this. is it definitly the MM, or could it be your husbands.... If there is a ? about that you need to have a prenatal test done to find out, for the sanity of all involved. How far alone are you know, is that possible.

Perhaps my reply did sound a little harsh. By no means was I telling anyone to have an abortion. I'm just tired of whiney, crying immoral OW who know exactly what they got themselves into, but then feel sorry for themselves and for OC when things don't work the way they wanted. Uh...hello! What possible good would it do for YOU to ruin yet another life by telling the wife? Haven't you done enough? It's bad enough that this child is not going to know the "normal" life of having mommy and daddy at home - YOU and your MM DID THAT!! Nice Job!! However, if the H wants to be in the OC's life, he'll let you know and the wife will eventually find out too (from him.) Then THEY will made a decision as a MARRIED COUPLE to participate in your child's life or not. So leave the poor woman alone!! You've done enough to try to worm yourself between them. Now that he realizes that what he wanted was in front of him the whole time (his wife) then just accept it and move on with your own life and stay out of theirs unless they invite you and oc in. Luckily for you, you can afford your child. I wish OW in my situation would fall off the face of the earth. H and I would be so much better off - even if we don't stay together. She has pretty much destroyed both of our lives - I've lost all trust for him, we've even lost our business over this mess. In his case, he is forced to pay CS by the state b/c the stupid idiot OW had this OC knowing that she couldn't even provide health insurance for it, so she was on medicaid. Now he has no choice but to pay and neither do I. I know it IS totally his responsibility to pay for this child (I'm not saying he shouldn't now that she's here), but I certainly didn't ask for it, so what choice do I have??? He wants to be a part of his daughters life - fine. But again - what choice do I have??? What choice will the wife of your MM have???? NONE. So please, Miss Integrity, don't destroy another life by opening your big mouth. Whatever is going to happen will happen. Just go about your own life - and next time try to stay away from men who are married. Adultery is one of the big "top 10" you know. ?

And enough of this constructive information on "she's just an innocent OW who has to raise a child on her own" crap - I'm sick of it!!!!! Should have thought about all that BEFORE you got pregnant. I do feel sorry for your child - it's too bad really.

Ah, Fullhouse,

You think those of us BW who are here, we are PRETENDING that our lives are hunky dorry? I am happy yes, but I still live knowing that each month, for another two years I have to pay for a child that was born to an affair. So the fact that I healed, thrived and had a life that didn't include OC, now I am PRETENDING? No, I am not pretending. Hate to burst your bubble, but people do go on and thrive and are happy WITHOUT OC in their lives. I will never be thrilled that it happened, but I did live with it. IN THE REAL WORLD.


I assume that I am the one you see as stirring the pot. It NEEDS to be stirred or these women, in their pain will agree to contact or whatever, without clearly thinking it through. I am giving them another point of view. One that you think is wrong, and upsets your romantic view of OC and one big happy family.

It does however allow others to think out for themselves, what THEY want. I can give them my point of view, as a woman who has lived the life they are heading for. Their wishes for what they want their own life to be is none of OW business. If that is stirring the pot, then I will stir away. Apparently I have to be harsh so they don't get sucked into thinking they would be wrong or mean or cruel to not consider the oc. These women have a right to live the life they choose. Just like you choose to bring an OC into your home, they can choose not to. It is, but another option. It does NOT mean their husbands are hiding behind her skirt. It means he is putting her needs first and foremost.

And for the record, no contact is not pretending that the oc does not exist. Not hardly. It is a choice, made within the marriage that it would disrupt and HURT others and that the choice is to not include OC in the family. That is a decision that is none of the OW business.

Who is trying to paint the hunky-dory picture here? You with your children frolicking with OC in total love and acceptance??!!!! You mean not one of your older children were hurt and upset for Pops? Your teenagers are all "hunky dory" with moms infidelity? Teens usually are preoccupied with sex, and you don't think they have any thoughts on this? HMMMM I wonder.

For an OW to be here, saying that healing, healed, or trying to heal BW are PRETENDING that all is hunky-dorry is offensive to every BW here. The whole point of MB is to be happy in your marriage again. Don't you think your husband will ever be happy again? Don't you want him to be happy again? If he is happy again, and he is on here giving his advice, will you consider him pretending?

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: LynnG ]</small>

JoshMom,
I am very sorry if I hit a nerve never to be hit. I am sure that you are a wonderful mom and were a wonderful ow, now with that said I do not live in a glass house and I do not live in a fairy tale world. You are the ow, not mine, but someones. My H did know the consequences of the affair and he did contribute I am more upset at this man wonderful dad about his selfishness than I am her I do not now or ever will I care to know her to me she is the devil and she is nothing. I have good reason for that she knew We were married she knew about my children and she didn't care about that so why should I go around acting like just because she scr$#ed a MM she should get a medal. Come on now let's get real I am a mom and a damn good one, so what does your parenting have to do with your decision to create a child that can either be lied to or possibly if made sound good enough endure the same thing if not worse.
I am not throwing stones. I am just saying that you (after all of these messes I have read) may want to reconsider doing it again. Try to find your own man and have your own problems and possibly your own ow.
Then when you understand what I am talking about write back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bran:
<strong> JoshMom,
I am very sorry if I hit a nerve never to be hit. I am sure that you are a wonderful mom and were a wonderful ow, now with that said I do not live in a glass house and I do not live in a fairy tale world. You are the ow, not mine, but someones. My H did know the consequences of the affair and he did contribute I am more upset at this man wonderful dad about his selfishness than I am her I do not now or ever will I care to know her to me she is the devil and she is nothing. I have good reason for that she knew We were married she knew about my children and she didn't care about that so why should I go around acting like just because she scr$#ed a MM she should get a medal. Come on now let's get real I am a mom and a damn good one, so what does your parenting have to do with your decision to create a child that can either be lied to or possibly if made sound good enough endure the same thing if not worse.
I am not throwing stones. I am just saying that you (after all of these messes I have read) may want to reconsider doing it again. Try to find your own man and have your own problems and possibly your own ow.
Then when you understand what I am talking about write back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off bran - I am xOW. I'm 7 years out of this and there is no way in HELL that I'd do it again. And I am a great mom. As far as being a great OW? I wouldn't go that far. I've made mistakes in my life. Everyone has. I just have proof of mine, that's all. And no - I do NOT consider my child a mistake. He is the only good that came out of a horrible situation. Except maybe me finding some sense of self-worth and knowing that I was so much better a person than xMM ever will be.

Well before Lynn did her edit job, I took the post as saying that if you happen to have a sibling that was a result of an affair, that you should be ashamed of the sibling??

I have a sister who was conceived from a one night stand. My mother found out later that this guy was married. I love my sister and how she was conceived was pointless growing up. She is my sister and that is all that matters. With FH, yes her kids were probably upset with the affair and having a sibling from it, but shold they be ashamed of their sister?? Is it the sisters fault for how she was conceived? Why should she suffer for the parents actions??

Lynn

I respect that the things you do in your life work for you. But in some cases you need to put the anger where it belongs, on the OW and the cheating spouse. The children (OC) is innocent as the children of the marriage. Just because your family choose not to have anything to do with the OC and they also choose to be ashamed of the OC doesn't mean that everyone that has a sibling in this kind of situation has to be ashamed and disown them.

All this talk of children born of affairs, how they have no right. What about children that are born from the one night stands, or short term relationships without marriage? What rights do they have? Do they have a right to know any siblings?? Or how about the rest of the extended family??

I think we are all good mothers. What I see as a major problem between us women is two fold. In my opinion, OW think that once an oc is in the mix that the father should spend time with child and that child should become part of XMM family, which includes grandparents, etc. I have even read (and lived through) OW thinking that OC should know our children as 1/2 siblings, etc.

Ok, where was all this concern for the welfare of the children of the marriage before oc was born? I have a real problem with that attitude. It's like now that OC is here, that OW think everyone should "grow up" and do what is best. I will argue forever on just what is best, and for whom.

What is best for OC is not what is best for my children, or me. So who comes first? OW call fathers cowards when they choose no contact. Not realizing that contact would upset his family. He had a part in creating the child, no doubt, but he has to do what is best for his family, doesn't he? If he and his wife decide that contact would be just to difficult and confusing and embarrassing to the family, how is that making him a coward? Would he not be a coward if he went against his families wishes and allowed them to be hurt and embarrassed further? By choosing his family, the OC is without his/her father.

I think the problem is also that many OW think that their child is the only innocent party to this mess. They blame XMM for hurting his wife and portray themselves as blamless for the affair. Yet, once the child is born, now everyone has to accept the end result? That is a bit two-faced.

Life is choices. Some choices hurt people. No contact is another choice. The affair itself is to blame for all the hurt. Not the BW, or her children. The two who had the EMR own 100% of the fallout. That includes the OW. When she is home alone with her child, feeling bad cause the dad is not part of this childs life, is that not one of the consequences of the choice of the EMR? Her child, whom she loves with her whole heart does not have a daddy to tuck her/him each night, or to take skating or whatever. The choice of the affair created this reality for that child. OW can't expect the BW and her kids to suffer anymore then they already have. What about the kids of the marriage? Should the be saddled with an OC in their lives that confuses them or embarrasses them? Is that fair to them? Sure, their father caused it, and he has to own that.

None of this is fair. It is reality and it is hurtfull to many. That is why OW and BW have a hard time. As a BW, I honestly don't see where a OW can possibly be hurt if she is knowingly cheating with a married man. Her child does not deserve to hurt either, but once again, oc parents by having their EMR, have hurt yet another innocent person. One of many.

So, I think we can all agree we are probably good mothers. All the children are hurt in someway. But that hurt is owned entirely by OW and XMM. BW and her children did nothing to anyone, nor did the OC.

Lynn you have to realize that all XOW are not like yours. Not all XOW with children demand these things from the XMM. I know that I haven't demand anything from my XMM for the kids. No support, demanding the kids know their aunts, uncles, grandparent or cousions. IMOP my kids have a loving family here. There are lots of XOW that I have read post on who leave the XMM alone.

And as stated before, what may be good for one person to do may not be good for another. With you it worked out for the best to have NC with the OC. The same may not hold true for someone else.

I did edit. First was way to harsh.

I have never said my children were ashamed of OC himself. They do not like the whole Jerry Spriner-esqe thing. They are ashamed of what their father did. They are basically indifferent to oc. He is not part of our day to day life and makes no difference to them.

As for the rights of OC. They have rights to child support, etc. Of that I don't argue. My take is what about the rights of the children of the marriage? They have rights and nobody looks out for them. It seems like the poor OC is so innocent, and should have this and that. But at what cost? The children of the marriage should not be forgotten. They should not be put in the situation of having to explain an affair. Teen years are hard enough, without forcing humiliation on them.

Teens can figure things out quickly. It doesn't take Einstein to figure out that Mr and Mrs Anderson have 3 kids 18, 17 and 11. So who is this 16 year old???? Just a bit obvious. Why do that to them? To assume that nobody is talking is absolute rubbish. Everybody, and I mean everybody likes gossip. Those who say they don't are just lying about it. Life is tough enough without making matters worse. We chose not not have OC in our life to make it easier on everyone, and even then it wasn't easy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by Crazymum:
What about children that are born from the one night stands, or short term relationships without marriage? What rights do they have?
Do they have a right to know any siblings?? Or how about the rest of the extended family?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Rights" ??? .... are you speaking of legal rights? Are you asking if someone (OC) has legal right to know someone who is biologically related in some way?

I don't think so. The bio-parent can try to gain legal rights to get visitation, but as far as I know, the child doesn't have legal rights for visitation of siblings or grandparents.

Is this your point... or your question? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying/asking.

Pep

Sorry Pep. I was just posting a what if thingy from one of Lynns post.

Just for clairification, I'm not one to push a child on to family who want nothing to do with the child. Yes, it would be nice if things could be put in the past and people could get along for the sake of the kids. Dream land there. This is the real world and we are human. We all hold grudges and can't deal with some mistakes. I'm one of them.

Lynn

Yes, I know the teen years are hard. Just starting them with my oldest. I think it was probably the fact that my kids were 8,4 and 2 when the OC was introduced to the family. They were at that age with our seperation and all the junk. They know know OC, but XOW plays games when it comes to visitation. Make a date and time then doesn't show or isn't home. These days the kids would like to see their brother, but don't really bother anymore. I see how the XOW treats her kids, oc, and would love to be able to get custody of the child. But that's another story.

Any hints on the teen years are greatly appreaciated. Oldest is turning 13 and already has a wonderful attitude....
With my XMM, he wants the kids in his life. His family doesn't want anything to do with them. That is there decision. The kids already have a big family that loves them. I have never tried to contact his family or sent them anything. Not my problem.

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Crazymum ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not trying to hurt anyone and I wasn't trying to get pregnant. How often does anyone plan for this? He told me he wanted to leave her and have a baby with me and boom 2 months later it happened. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, let me shoot from the hip and be upfront with you. If you weren't trying to get pregnant then how did it happen? When ADULTS don't use protection they usually ARE trying to get pregnant. If you say you did then ofcourse we would have no other recourse than to believe you, but I suspect you didn't, because in the heat of passion he said he wanted to have kids with you so you believed that a child would make him leave his wife quicker, but now that you see that he was lying to you all along, you want to disrupt his home. Understandable...nothing beats a women scorn!
HINT HINT, he STILL is not going to leave his wife for you, only if she throws him out and if you want him by DEFAULT then that's your low self-esteem you need to work on, because that is the only way you will have him.
But please don't insult us with the "I JUST THOUGHT SHE SHOULD KNOW" theory to his wife! You didn't care what she knew before the pregnancy! Keep it real! TAKE HIM TO COURT, GET CHILD SUPPORT and get on with your life! LEAVE HIS WIFE ALONE, BUT MAKE HIM PAY FOR HIS RESPONSIBILITY and his responsibility is to the child, NOT YOU! Don't expect him to be attending any birthday parties, softball, ballet recitals for the child because it doesn't sound like that is the type of GOOD MAN you decided to sleep with. Just my opinion

wasn't J's original question should she tell the Wife of her H's affair and OW's pregnancy? Everyone can argue till the cows come home over the rights of children of the marriage or otherwise...as well as the great abortion debate...I think J did what she set out to do which was stir the pot up a lil bit ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think J did what she set out to do which was stir the pot up a lil bit...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup---and I notice that she's apparently taken us up on our advice that she doesn't belong here...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crazymum:
[QB] Sorry Pep. I was just posting a what if thingy from one of Lynns post.


I have 2 adopted kids, siblings. They have no "right" to meet or know their biological siblings. Or their bio parents for that matter. When they are 18, they can petition the county for birth parent records and/or birth sibling info if individuals from the other side of adoption have released their privacy and choose to be found. ... but as far as I know, it is not a "right". (they are from county child protective services).

Knowing who their sperm donor might be does not satisfy the child's need for a happy home with 2 loving married parents.

To me, a child has a "right" to a loving home, with (preferably) 2 parents married to each other. it is up to the ADULTS to make this environment available before conception ....

Adults should know better.

Once the situation is this screwed up (OC with single OW and MM heading for the hills), the quality of life for any child entering the world this way is automatically born with unnecessary difficulties that the adults could have prevented by better behavior and more thoughtful choices.

There are no "rights" for the kids here! Their rights were prematurely violated by the adults making wrong decisions.

Pep



<small>[ November 12, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

[/QUOTE]Ok, let me shoot from the hip and be upfront with you. If you weren't trying to get pregnant then how did it happen? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Uh............hello, not everyone gets pregnant on purpose. How many married women say OPPPPPS!!!!!! Just be cause it's a ow does not make it any different. Not saying that some do. I know for a fact that at 41 I sure the hell did not WANT any more kids. They are expensive and needy. Mine are getting ready to start school and that thought was wonderful! But at the same time it's my LEGAL choice NOT to have an abortion or adopt this child out. I am taking on what has happened. Xmm is expected to pay cs, but I could care a less if he's in her life. Why would I want a person who is fighting paternity and fighting the paternity test in my child's life? Is he looking out for what's best in the child's life? NO. I do agree that this girl does not need to tell the wife. It's his place. But believe it or not these mm make promises they don't keep. So if she can't afford an attorney to tell the Wife, she will do it. It's her only defense. The bs will not see that the xmm has said anything this ow or made promises. It was not until the xmm got the ow pregnant and or got caught that he has you bs say choose to do what it takes to stay in the marriage. But again, say your husband is a fool telling some other women a bunch of crap.....you fell for it, so the ow is a whore for falling for it? So many double standards here. Someone asked me that comes on this board if my best friend's husband got some ow pregnant what advise would I give her? Well I would tell her to protect your self, but not be greedy and take the chance of getting herself in more trouble. I'd remind her her husband took the chance too and no matter how much the husband is telling her the ow trapped, lied, or whatever, he is still apart of this mess. As far as contact goes.....if you can handle it great. If you can't great. I know in my case, I'll make up for xmm absent. My child will be just fine. It's the xmm's loss. Children of any reason of God's gift to us to love, and take care of for as long as God gives us that gift. We have to do what we have to do.