</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ember:
<strong>

cat, you are very snippy many times. You try to put words or thoughts in people's minds. An example of this is on some other posts' you said to me, "Ember, not all men are pigs." To clarify, I never said they were. My point of cautiousness being belittled. Sometimes, I really enjoy your words of wisdom, and sometimes I wonder where the wisdom is.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">=^^= We can ALL get "snippy" sometimes. I know I can. It is one of the shortcomings that prevented me from getting a better husband...hahaha But, by my saying "Ember, not all men are pigs" is hardly "trying to put words or thoughts into people's minds". In fact, I am very bored with people who say "you're just putting words and thoughts into people's heads, minds, mouths, whatever" to other people who are just making a statements. You yourself have certainly made an abundant of statements which by your definition could be construed as "Putting words and thoughts into other peoples' minds". And the way you are speaking to MOF is pretty snippy, too.

So, I guess all our kettles are black.

BTW, MOF is a BW, too. If you keep that in mind, maybe you won't have so much heartburn over what she says.
Her H had more than a couple ONS and A...and I hope I am not speaking out of turn here. But, she and the XOM's W have agreed to tolerate each other for the good of the child and if it is working for them, why are we arguing about that? If C is working for someone, that should be a good thing, right? If she isn't kissing XOM's W's behind, there is probably some history we are not privy to. We don't know EVERYTHING about each other or what goes on in our lives or the subtle and blatant intricacies that complicate all our lives. Just treat her like you treat Tigger and FH...their situations are somewhat similar.

I apologize if I was snippy to you or hurt your feelings. I know I can be rather snippy but mostly just to get a point across...it ain't mind control either, Ember...just my opinion. Take what you like and leave the rest. I'm not holding a gun to your head and screaming "Believe! Believe!"

Now, let's all have a good weekend...I think there is a Newbie here that needs some attention.

<small>[ January 23, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a)that is the perception I have allowed the outside world to have, for the emotional protection of my baby,
It's better your child thinks YOU had an affair with a married man, rather than you were assaulted?

b)I do deal with all aspects of having had a MM's child while he was married, so I do find support among other mom's in the same circumstances.
I got news for ya'. Your circumstances are NOT THE SAME nor do they have any idea of your real circumstances!!!
How are you gonna get "support" from them?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, in answer to your first question, YES. It IS better. It is a proven fact that children internalize the behaviors of their parents...ie my father is bad, and I'm part of him, so I must be bad too.
I did a LOT of research on these topics, and also joined a support group for adult children conceived of rape and mothers who have had such children, and TRUST ME what those adult children deal with isn't pretty. IMO an absent father is better than a criminal monster for a father.

To answer your second question, yes, they do support me because I face the same sociatal pressures and legal hurdles, as well as the same emotional hurdles that come from having an absent, married father for your child.

Pepperband,
I don't really consider myself an ex-OW, but that is my category as it applies to situations of this board.
Yes, I have had therapy with a WONDERFUL counselor who helped me overcome the ugliest days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Originally posted by sofaraway:

Pepperband,
I don't really consider myself an ex-OW, but that is my category as it applies to situations of this board.

Were you dating a MM , and he raped you? Like date rape?


Yes, I have had therapy with a WONDERFUL counselor who helped me overcome the ugliest days.

And this counselor advised you to NOT file charges against the man who raped you? Is that correct?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Were you dating a MM , and he raped you? Like date rape?


And this counselor advised you to NOT file charges against the man who raped you? Is that correct?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I was not dating him. We were friends. He wsa in my home once, and that is when it happened. He hit on me, I said no, he did it anyway. (I have since learned he has a pattern of similar behavior)

No, my counselor did not advise me not to file charges. I had made up my mind not to before even seeing her the first time.
Filing charges in my case would have accomplished
nothing. The charges never would have seen the light of day due to his connections to the law enforcement and criminal justice systems in our area.
I had to weigh A LOT of issues. I chose the one I beleived best at the time, but there will never stop being moments I wish he was sitting in a cell.

ouch, hop, ouch, hop man my toes are sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

i took no offense to anyhing posted about me. in fact i represent most all of the negative things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

it took nearly 52 years to become the stubborn mule that i am so don't expect me to change over night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

hey catnip, what if this was all God's idea to bring us all into each others lives? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Craz, am I to understand that you want to be involved with deception again? With MM's wife not knowing?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly I don't know what to do in this situation. Over the years its done no good running to her every time her H does something wrong. I'm sick of playing the games. Right now I'm concentrating on healing from the pain I inflicked upon my self and my family. I'm honest with my H, why should I bother with what Xmm is or isn't doing with his wife? Its their problem not mine. The only contact I have with Xmm is with the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by pops:
<strong> ouch, hop, ouch, hop man my toes are sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

=^^= Pops...did I step on your toes, too? Or have you been out salsa dancing again?

it took nearly 52 years to become the stubborn mule that i am so don't expect me to change over night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

=^^= Don't ever change, Pops...you're wonderful exactly as you are....

hey catnip, what if this was all God's idea to bring us all into each others lives? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

=^^= It's that bothersome tolerance thing again of coming to a higher plane of understanding and compassion thing, I think. Dang annnoying, especially when you thought you had all the answers; all your biases validated and all your perceptions crystal clear. I suppose at each juncture in time, each level of awareness makes this true for that particular point in time, that particular stage. It's just when you get to the next level that you start to see all these things morph into another kind of reality.

Do I sound like I've been smoking Maui Wowie or something? Sheesh...I'd better get some sleep. All these late nights studying is making me loopy.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 4tori&natesake:
<strong> That's an interesting point. It seems many OW still insist on CS though. C is optional but CS is mandatory. I don't want to debate that issue Ktbunch:...but I wonder why you feel these children shouldn't get support. I think it takes two, and BOTH of the parents should be held accountable. My husband had a vasectomy because he didn't want anymore children. Here comes twins...we take most of the financial responsibility. XMM probably pays 1/3 of what he would have to pay per state guidelines. We take all other responsibility medical, any childcare, etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1)You missed my point completely. It wasn't about who "should" DO anything. And I did NOT say they should NOT pay CS. My point is: C being OPTIONAL and CS being MANDATORY... as if CS is MORE valuable than C.

2) what your XMM pays is what you have allowed him. You could have taken him to court and he would have NO CHOICE but to pay. Are you trying to imply that you do him a "favor"?

3)pops did state in another thread that since he does love OC as his own, if he could do it over, he MAY have made a different choice about CS, with regards to OM now being involved in OC life, having to "share" OC.

I know every one tries to do what is best for thier families with the tools and knowledge they have @ the time decisions are made. For some it's NC, for some it's no CS.

And I think everyone should be able to "vent" and be open here. There seems no reason to get your underoos all in a bunch if it doesn't apply to you. Why does everything need to be taken so personally? IF you're not a psycho OW then ignore the reference, it OBVIOUSLY doesn't apply to you. I'm not a bitter (sometimes angry but not bitter) BS so I never take offense to anything that resembles a remark like that. Actually I'm not very easily offended by much of anything in my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have enough eggshells in my own life to avoid walking on. I'm tired of keeping track of them here too, a board that is supposed to be supportive of MARRIAGES in different states of disarray, mostly due to A that resulted in OC. shouldn't THAT be the priority?

catnip,,,,, don't worry no one has stepped on my toes. but i wish i were out dancing. i would look forward to seeing this group at some form of a reunion and maybe getting the opportunity to meet and dance with some of the marvelous people here. i would however get a little ticked if say K stepped on my toes during a spin around the floor.

it has just been a very long and busy week and i felt like trying to lighten my thoughts a little.


------------------------------
=^^= It's that bothersome tolerance thing again of coming to a higher plane of understanding and compassion thing, I think. Dang annnoying, especially when you thought you had all the answers; all your biases validated and all your perceptions crystal clear. I suppose at each juncture in time, each level of awareness makes this true for that particular point in time, that particular stage. It's just when you get to the next level that you start to see all these things morph into another kind of reality.
------------------------------
HUH? this is way to heavy for me to figure out the way my mind is working tonight.

maui wowie? i haven't heard that for at least _ _ years. i remeber having a talk with my younger brother way back before they had dirt floors. the debate was over the best stuff around. he was siding with maui wowie and i was big on panama red. gosh those were the days.

kt,,,,, on the serious note. my comment was about if certain situations in my life were different (age, health, number and ages of our kids, etc) then yes i may have made different choices. but that goes both ways. had they been different in other ways like some of the stories i've read here, my marriage may have ended. and we all know what they say about if's and but's being candy and nuts.

even with om in our life this was still the right thing for me. and for the record our om has been very respectful of me and our family for the most part.

LYNN...I RESPECT YOU A GREAT DEAL .SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. YOU HAVE THE GUTS OF A MILLION. IT'S TO BAD THERE ARE NOT MANY LIKE YOU. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. YOU SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU FEEL. I WISH MORE WOULD DO THE SAME.

IMO an absent father is better than a criminal monster for a father.
Hmmm? Interesting. It's better to believe you have two bad parents srather than one bad parent? He thinks, "BOTH of my parents are bad people. Mom because hshe slept with a married man and Dad, because he's not around AND he was married at the time."
It's better to lie to him about everything rather than teach him how to deal with issues?

To answer your second question, yes, they do support me because I face the same sociatal pressures and legal hurdles, as well as the same emotional hurdles that come from having an absent, married father for your child.
Yes, you do get "support" for certain issues, (raising a child alone) but it's all based on false pretenses on your part. They can't support you properly unless they know what they are supporting!
I'm not saying you should continue to be a "victim" of rape but the fact is you are lying to everyone about it and it seems (from your posts) as if even you are starting to believe it was an affair.

What's gonna happen when your kid decides to visit "Dad" later on in life and finds out the truth?

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Joshmom, momof5, fullhouse and others:

Your input is much appreciated. I'm not afraid to say it. I want to know more than what posters like lynng have to bark about.

Sometimes you have to know when to ignore certain posters. It's a pity you are only attacked, but that's not within your control or worth your time.

I don't feel like I was attacked. I just felt that it wasn't productive to anyone for me to post any further on this. I have never been anything but respectful to 99.99% of the people here, and will continue to do so regardless of what is thrown at me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />