Oh yes, OW did put in the parenting plan SHE wanted, that I NOT be allowed to be alone w/ or transport OC!

I'm glad we have made at least SOME progress in that area. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think it was only because the counselor told OW how ridiculous that was and that OW had to face the fact that I was here to STAY and also be a part of OC life.

ktbunch,
I am glad that you at least got the fact that you should be able to transport child, sign for basic medical consents, etc. resolved through the mediation process. It seems as if you have done everything possible to make the best of this situation. It seems to me this OW should be grateful that her child has someone willing to accept her into her home and assist in her growth. As she was the OW, (H still w/ you and made his feelings and intentions clear to her) OW should respect this fact and be willing to have all contact go through you. And this is coming from a former OW. Good luck to you. tewjtm aka femalesargeant @ TOW

No, I don't have any "rights" to the OC but I am able to care for OC and be around her like any other family member (w/o H present).

The equivalent, say, like an "aunt".

or a STEPMOM!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pops,

I was thinking the same thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

As long as I am H's W that is what I am, like it or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

yah your right pops. Thanks, sm has such negative connotations and I was thinking "aunt" even sounded MORE related but...I guess that's just as questionable now a days.

One time OW snapped @ me because she thought I was trying to compare myself to OC aunt, (OW sister), she said I had no right to compare because OW sister was there when OC was born! So not to even try to compare myself to her! I wasn't doing that though, OW misunderstood what I was saying.

Just another reminder of how I do NOT fit into this picture! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But I will try not to dwell on that and only to think about who I AM important too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Kt~

Do you consider yourself her Step Mom and her your Step child though?

I don't think there has to be negative connotations to either.

Geez, at least you don't refer to the child in a rude manner. This woman is definitely a game player and likes to stick it to you whenever she can. No if's, and's or butt's about it...

I just had a thought KT, call yourself whatever you want to this child. Auntie so and so is fine. Her (the OW) opinion in this matter means diddly squat. She is just an overbearing control freak who is pissed because she didn't get your H.

I don't "consider" myself anything really.

OC started out calling me "mom" or "mommy". H and I did not tell her to call us anything, we just let OC do whatever was comfortable. OW had said that OC called every female in OC life, either by thier name or "mommy".

THEN OC told OW that I told OC that I was OC "new mommy now". That did not go over well w/ OW of course. It was NOT true but OW always believes OC, of course.

So then OC called me by my name but my 3yo started calling me by my name--that did not fly w/ me or daddy.

SO I told OC she could call me "step-mom" since that is what I am. It did not bother me but------man----everyone else (adults) would be so offended when they heard OC say that. "WHAT did OC just call you?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Finally, I got so tired of everyone saying stuff that I sat down w/ Oc and had a "talk". I explained that we all know who OC mommy is, OC only has ONE mommy but that she can call me "mama'" amd her "mommy" is her mommy_______. I kept reinterating the fact that she only has ONE mommy.

So to be sure I asked OC "how many mommies do you have?" and OC answered, "3". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I asked OC "who?". OC replied, OW, Ow's mom (grandma) and me!!!! I explained that I am not her "mommy, OC did not come out from my belly" OC only has ONE mommy, _________is her grandma and I am her step-mom but OC can call me mama.

So OC is now fine w/ that and very comfortable, @ least while @ our house.

So.....whatever. Ihate this whole thign anyway. H and I did not know what to do about this or how to handle it. We ahve never been in this situation and none of our friends have step-children to deal w/ so we really just didn't know.

I know OC still does not understand it all. OC tried to tell 3 yo the other day that his last name was OC last name + our last name! Because that is OC last name (OWname-Hname). It is painful as a parent to have to try and explain these things.

I do not want to have to explain this to the youngest as they get older, although I am looking forward to the day, if ever, OC has questions. I am fully confident in my answers.

It is sad to hear OC talking about how "thier house" needs a "prince" and referring to my H that thier house needs to be all 4 of "them" (OW, OC, OW's child and H). I just remind her that daddy is already married to me so he can't go live w/ them. blah blah blah.

See these are the kinds of conversations you have to have when you have OC. Or how about the time OC came over and was talking about how H broke OW heart? What IS that? Where does a 5 yo (at the time) get stuff like that? Or that "grandpa" doesn't like daddy or that "auntie" told OC daddy was going to take OC away!

Maybe OC just makes it up, OC has told OW stuff about us that was NOT true....but....who knows?

OR maybe like everyone thinks....kids really do jsut "pick-up" on this stuff more than we think.


This is just painful for everyone.

kt,,,,,,,,,,, i want to respond to your post about ow's feeling that bs doesn't need to be involved but i want to discuss it with fh first to get more feedback on the subject.

next i wanted to say that if you don't remember it has only been the last 30 years or so when fathers have even been around when their kids were born.

my dad was at the bar bragging about becoming a new dad again when i popped out. he was still a wonderful father.

we are molded not by whom is there to smack our little rearends and say welcome to this cold world but by those who are there to love us and quide us thru the good AND bad times throughout our lives. those people who will look you square in the eye when you are wrong and knowing that you are in deep doggy dodo with them yet when you look into their eyes you still see the compassion and love they have for you.

you are every bit as important to your oc (and i have to say i hate that term) as any other adult in her life and even more so. your love of that child will teach her far greater lessons in life then any ow could hope to teach her with negative statements about you.

sorry lost my paste so will have to post a second time to find my train of thought again. what is they say about the mind being the second thing that goes out with old age? what ever could the first thing be? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

kt,,,,,,,,


....................
I don't "consider" myself anything really.
.......................
you should consider yourself a plus to be in that childs life.

.....................
OC started out calling me "mom" or "mommy".
.............................
very common for young children to use that term for most women also the term "daddy" for most men.

.................
we just let OC do whatever was comfortable.
..........................
perfect, olsest son (from now on known as "#1s")
called fh mom on his own. probably because he heard our kids calling her mom so he just responded in kind. when his bio mom was around and fh was there also then he would call her by her first name. it was no big deal.
....................
OW had said that OC called every female in OC life, either by thier name or "mommy".
.............................
just cheap words on her part to try and make you feel worthless. but we all know the truth to that.

.....................
So then OC called me by my name but my 3yo started calling me by my name--
..............................
again in your house you should be called by whatever the rest of your kisd call you no matter what anyone else says.

..........................
SO I told OC she could call me "step-mom" since that is what I am. It did not bother me but------man----everyone else (adults) would be so offended when they heard OC say that. "WHAT did OC just call you?"

Finally, I got so tired of everyone saying stuff that I sat down w/ Oc and had a "talk". I explained that we all know who OC mommy is, OC only has ONE mommy but that she can call me "mama'" amd her "mommy" is her mommy_______. I kept reinterating the fact that she only has ONE mommy.

So to be sure I asked OC "how many mommies do you have?" and OC answered, "3". I asked OC "who?". OC replied, OW, Ow's mom (grandma) and me!!!! I explained that I am not her "mommy, OC did not come out from my belly" OC only has ONE mommy, _________is her grandma and I am her step-mom but OC can call me mama.
.........................................
i understand your frustration and the why's of this conversation but it sounds like you were almost trying to rationalize the situation to yourself also. AND it has been said here to me many times about it takes more then being asperm donor to be a daddy. well the same thing holds true about being a mommy. it takes much, much more ten being an incubator.

.......................
So OC is now fine w/ that and very comfortable, @ least while @ our house.
..............................
good

......................
So.....whatever. Ihate this whole thign anyway. H and I did not know what to do about this or how to handle it. We ahve never been in this situation and none of our friends have step-children to deal w/ so we really just didn't know.
................................
and who the heck does!!!

.................................
It is sad to hear OC talking about how "thier house" needs a "prince" and referring to my H that thier house needs to be all 4 of "them" (OW, OC, OW's child and H). I just remind her that daddy is already married to me so he can't go live w/ them. blah blah blah.
..........................................
what is sad is when you see a woman that is so blind that she will continue to use her own child to make herself feel better. all i would say to oc is that your h is the prince of YOUR house and that someday ANOTHER prince will come along to be with his bio mom at her house.

.......................
See these are the kinds of conversations you have to have when you have OC. Or how about the time OC came over and was talking about how H broke OW heart? What IS that? Where does a 5 yo (at the time) get stuff like that? Or that "grandpa" doesn't like daddy or that "auntie" told OC daddy was going to take OC away!
...................................
i had to deal with the same kinds of things being told to #1s my his mom. many times it is not that they are telling oc these things but rather just not being discrete of what they are saying when oc is around. some people never get it.

BUT on the good side if you keep your journal the truth will eventually be told. even if you don't keep the journal your actions will be seen by oc as she grows and matures. GARUNTEEED!!!!

...............................
OR maybe like everyone thinks....kids really do jsut "pick-up" on this stuff more than we think.
.......................................
i couldn't agree with this statement more. kids are much more perceptive and most times more advanced intheir comprehension then us adults want to give them credit for. as they always say "out of the mouths of babes". trust me they usually heard it from an adult.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't "consider" myself anything really.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I worded it wrong. I was just trying to see how you view your role in all this. Also, you didn't say what you consider her to be. You refer to her so much as the OC, I've rarely if ever, heard you refer to her as your step daughter. I was wondering if you view her as such?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SO I told OC she could call me "step-mom" since that is what I am
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you are her step mom. Although, I agree, to call someone "step mom" does sound kinda strange, too formal...

I'm with pops, it's best she call you whatever your children call you. I know teenagers and young adults who call their step parents by their first name. However, with a youngster, it just isn't right. I don't allow my children to call any adult by their first name, it is always Mr. or Mrs. Obviously, that wouldn't work in this case either. Auntie just doesn't seem right either, because you aren't her Aunt. You are her step mom, by virtue of the fact you and your H are helping to raise her.

I don't envy your situation. Thank God my H and I are able to raise our baby without any contact what so ever from the op. I don't want to make a blanket statement, but in more cases than not, it is much easier to have a baby produced from a W's A.

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

by autumn day:However, with a youngster, it just isn't right. I don't allow my children to call any adult by their first name, it is always Mr. or Mrs. Obviously, that wouldn't work in this case either.

Neither do we! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was beginning to thing that was just a "homeschool cult" thing! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Good so we're not a bunch of wierdo's.

I only say OC here for clarification when writing. With having the whole ktbunch now, it can get confusing. And just for safety/privacy issues I don't use thier names and I even feel funny referring to their gender. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

IRL I refer to OC by her name to our friends, SD w/ aquaintances, and D with strangers.

It's funny. Whenever we meet up w/ someone we haven't seen for awhile, but have obviously "heard" the news, they ALWAYS say, "So....how many kids do you have now?" Then try to act shocked when we answer, then they ask how old each one is! LOL Sometimes people are so transparent.

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Good so we're not a bunch of wierdo's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, last time I checked, teaching your kids to be respectful is not weird. A rarity these days?...Yes, so it seems sometimes.

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

kt,,,,,,,,,,,,,
you asked........................
Why do you think fh gets upset aobut OM's W? And what do you tell fh? Is her attitude the one that is grace is there to visit w/ OM NOT W? What about OM's children (grace's 1/2 siblings)? Are there any?
..................................
the reasons fh doesn't want om's w picking up grace are multiple. and these are in no specific order of importance.

1 - i think it is just a built in protective device in mothers. they want to be the ones raising their cubs. they are always uneasy when their kids are away.

2 - she feels visitation is a time for om to form a bond with his daughter. so if he is not there then why should grace not be home where her mother can have her under her watchful eye.

3 - in our case once when om's w went to pick up grace at babysitters (our oldest daughter, princess) om's w started asking princess how she felt about all this and what she thought of her mom, etc.

so fh told om she did not want his w picking grace up anymore. and if she did to please tell her to keep our daughter out of tis. how would she like it if pops were to ask your son what he thought and tell him that his dad is a womanizing coward.

4 - (this is just my personal opinion) i think that fh is having a hard time with her feelings of quilt over all this. i have asked her if she thought it important to apologize to om's w and she has answered that she doesn't want to talk to her. that an apology wouldn't change anything or do any good. i think she is wrong in that area.

i think an apology would make fh feel much better in side herself. just me. but i know she has a very hard time with saying she's sorry even to me when she is 100% wrong. side note** as any h will tell you that his w being wrong is like never. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

om does have children from his marriage. a daughter age 4 and a son age 11. he and his w also are raising her daughter age 14/15? hey don't recieve any cs for her and her bio dad never comes to see her.

what i tell her is that his w does have a right to be a part of graces life and have a relationship with grace the same as i fought my exgf so that fh coould have a relationship with #1s.

grace seems to be in good spirits whne she comes back from her visits but as i have mentioned previously she is now more and more saying that she doesn't want to go to poppy's house. even on days when she is not supposed to go.

this is full house speaking......i didnt read the whole post, but did catch pops and a little more, i guess there was a question of why i didnt like oms wife picking up and bringing back grace? i will go back and read more, but on that, its not that i care whether she is there or not, its the fact that om is never with them, it makes me wonder if he is spending anytime with her at all. She should get to know her other siblings and his wife, but the reason for the visitation in the first place was so that he could create a relationship with her, at least that is what he said. i know that he didnt spend much time with his family before, so i am wondering if he is continuing his old ways, and she is just being a special person in letting her children know their sister without his help. yes i did state i didnt like her picking up our daughter from my oldest daughters house because of how she spoke to her, trying to pry into her thoughts, and saying terrible things about me. she has no right talking to my daughter in that way, just like we have no right discussing with her children how we feel. if she wants to say how she feels i more than welcome her to speak with me. and that was approached in the beginning but she declined. she has taken the opportunities to talk my husbands ear off, she does have the gift of gab...like my husband, so i am surprised either one got a word in....lol
well i guess i will read this post from the beginning to see what i missed

full house here, i just read page 7, boy alot to read.......
in reply to some questions...I am not against his wife picking up or having a part in graces life, i just want her to be respectful in my childrens presence, i know i have put everyone in a hard place, but i am trying very hard to be easy to get along with, never denying visits , working with change on schedules, etc....i never want to be the woman from hell like pops ex-girlfriend, life was miserable with her in it, she did everything she could to be a bxxxh, i am not ever gonna be like that. and during our visitations with #1 son i went with pops 90% of the time, but he was the one who went to the door to pickup and to return, it was never an option for me. the contact was always thru them, never me. so really i think if you have the nightmare of having an A and oc enter your life, i am the dream ow if you have to have one......and this is not trying to make light of all the difficult situations and horrors that these A's have brought, i am just saying i am trying to not cause anymore heartache and problems than there already is. does any of this make sense?

fh: see there are lots of different sides and situations here.

OW in my life would not change schedules for ANYTHING. I took that personal because %95 of the time it was a scheduling conflict having to do w/ BC (oldest) school functions and activities.

I felt she was forcing H to "choose". And I thought it was downright mean to do. We always let her know what it was for and why we were asking, and always way in advance, sometimes months. Always....."no"...."really inconvenient for me"....."you have asked for too many changes, so no".......WHAT?????

Those occasions just happened to be during a busy season (the end of the school year). It was horrible. Then when we would try to make it all work out by having me p/u OC-------oh no---OW did not go for that--absolutely NOT!

This was before I ever even said a word to OW about anything, all this while everything about OC was always between H and OW.

That's why and when I started to get "more involved".

Of course you have good points. Any parent would put a stop to that, about OMW talking to D. That is crossing the line.

I just don't see why everyone CAN'T act like adults, like everyone else says, then YES, it probably would work.

I have told OW on numerous occasions to just leave it in the past. Nope, always has to bring it up somewhere, somehow. Things will be going good for awhile but when push comes to shove on a topic about OC-----that's like her secret weapon---any disagreement about OC and OW brings out the big guns---which has NOTHING to do w/ OC.

My H is better @ handling that then me. Whenever OW has tried to bring it up (@ least in person) he's like---ok lets go.

He's much more level headed but that frustrates me. I'm like go ahead and bring it on because I know OW can NOT say anything abuot me personally to hurt me so I'm like-go ahead and try. OW tries to hurt me either through my BC or my H.

So like now, (since this post was started) things are just fine. But everyday I think to myself, is today the day OW tries to send another frivolous email? And when and if we can get that lawyer in a few weeks------then what? How will OW react to that?

It's like you have to walk on eggshells for OW. That's what I hate.

During the time of OC (what we like to call) "lying episodes", our whole family was tense and didn't hardly even want to talk for fear of how OC would misinterprate(sp?) to OW our conversations. Finally, we just said the heck w/ it, it doesn't matter what we REALLY say because OC will tell OW something different and no matter what OW will not believe us so......it just doesn't matter.

Funny, even when we would say NOTHING, OW was suspiscious. We have a mini-van (of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ---I hate it!LOL)and if you are sitting in the back you can't here anything the people in the front are saying. So OW brought up the fact that OC told her we were talking in the car but OC couldn't hear what we were saying---implying it was something negative about OW!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Any way.......I'm rambling tonight..but since this is MY thread, I think I am allowed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />