This is a letter that I want to give to my H. I hope if captures what I feel without being to demaning or selfish. Please look at and let me know if you think I should change anything or add something. I really want to make him understand how his decision hurt me and hurt our marriage. He says he needs to do this so he feels good about himself but I think he has been making himself feel good at my expense for far too long.

Hi Sweetie,

I have been debating on if I should write this or not. We really need to talk about our situation as June 9th is quickly approaching. The whole thing has been on my mind the entire time you were out of town.

I am going to keep this simple, we can talk in more detail later tonight or tomorrow.

Like I said, if you are to have contact with this child then I want to be part of this child's life too. With that said, we are the father and step mother--together. We need to be united in what we do regarding contact and all the other issues that will arise. I am sure while the child is an infant, that contact will be limited to hours and not over nights. If that is the case, then that contact should include me and the kids at our house or at a park or some other place. What about when the child is older and it can stay over-night. How many over-nights shall we have? Will they be during the week or on the weekend?

She does not need to like your decisions, she needs to accept them as you are the father and we are your family. If she does not accept what you want then all three of us need to negotiate what will be done. She needs to accept that I will be part of this child's life if you choose contact with it and she needs to accept that I will be the Step-mother. As the father, you have a say on how things will be handled and need to stick up for yourself and what you want. Frankly, all contact with her regarding the child needs to be done through the home phone and both of us need to be involved. When she asks you something, you should say let me see what XXX has to say about that and see what she want's to do. If not, then we do not look like a team and she will do what ever she can to put us against each other. It also makes me feel like I am not part of this situation but just here for the ride. I feel like I am to put up and to shut up.

As for the delivery. You know how I feel about that. I really feel that you are being inconsiderate of my feelings and it is a huge slap in my face. Her walking around the dept. carrying your child is a slap in my face. This is just one more thing that I can not bear. There is no reason you need to be there at that time. If you want to see the baby after it's born then you and I can be in the waiting room. The only reason to be there at that time is to support her, not the child. She knows that, I know that and you know that. Showing her that you support her will again give her fuel and she will do what ever she can to pit us against each other because she will know that we are not united on this. She will no that I have no say so in the matter and she will use that to her advantage any chance she gets. She has support in her sister and the doctors or anyone else she want's there. It does not need to be you. Not only that but you don't even know if it's your child. There is always a possibility that it may be someone else's.

I remember how close we felt during the birth of our two children, it's a very bonding and special time. I do not want the two of you to bond. I don't think we can risk our marriage for that. Even if you don't bond with her, what if that experience only makes her want to fight for you more?. What if she pulls out all the stops and makes our life a living hell because she wants you as her husband?

There are many other decisions that we need to make. What about the child's last name? Will it be yours or hers? What will we do if our kids do not adjust to this situation? Will we continue to make the deal with it? What about our rebuilding? We have little time alone as it is, what will we do to make sure that it's not even less?

You either want your marriage or you don't. That decision should lead you to the correct answer regarding what to do. I can not stand by as you have two separate families. If you will not put me and the kids first then I have no choice but to put us first. This is what I can and can't accept. I am sorry but I can not give anymore than I already have. I have given so many things that have hurt me deeply, but this is the end of my rope. If you choose to be there then I have no choice but to leave you. I will no longer subject myself to more hurt. I am sorry if this hurts you. When I said I would be there for you, I never meant that it would be at my expense. I said from the very first day I would not be able to handle you being at the birth and that it was one thing I would not accept.

LMF I think it sounds good. I know how you feel w/ the room issue. From the get go he said he wouldn't and she kept bothering him on it. He told her he would be there for the CHILD, not someone who could detroy his life he has built and his family with choosing to go into the room. To show support for something he didn't want in the first place. I wish you all the luck, we are working on the same issues. Let me know how it goes. Are you giving it to him today, this weekend, tomorrow. Maybe if you got a I support you card and put it in there. Also, I have put letters in his lunch, so if he does get upset about your feelings, which he shouldn't but that will give them 1/2 day to think about things and try and feel how we feel! I really hope it goes well.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

Sunny,

Thanks. I will let you know how it goes. I hope it goes well with you too. The room issue is huge for me. We are both on different ends regarding that. I too don't understand why they want to show support for something they did not want in the first place. Does not make sense to me. He wanted her to abort and now he wants to see the baby come into this world. Does not make much sense to me.

Thanks for the idea about the card. I always give cards for no reason at all but I think this time there would be a good reason.

Your letter sounds great and I understand the room issue--huge not okay in my opinion to be there-agree with you on if contact then it is joint Dad & step-mom contact my OW is due mid-June--but hey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm still trying to figure out if I still have a marriage before work on this OW thing anymore.

You have my prayers--Good Luck

LMF,

I think your letter was very well thought out, & I hope & pray it knocks some sense into your H's head.

Of course my situation is very different, I had no say about H being in the d room since he was living w/ OW & it was his only child, he had never experienced this before. Still didn't lessen my hurt & pain, knowing that he shared that w/ her still hurts to this day, so I totally agree that if he choses to put her need for him being there above your need for him not to, you should PB.

I only wish I would have written some of things to my H that you put in your ltr., especially the part about making decisions as a team being father & step mother. Set boundaries now, so nothing is established later on w/o POJA being in place.

I wish you all the best & will say a prayer for you.

Thanks.
albany, I hope you and figure out your M. Good luck.

babygirl, I don't know how you did it. My stomach ached as I read your words. Since the two of you never experience the birth of a child, all the more reason in my book not to be there with OW. So what did you do? Did you stay with your H? Did he develop new feelings for OW? Do you have C with OC?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LuvMyFamily:
<strong> Thanks.
albany, I hope you and figure out your M. Good luck.

babygirl, I don't know how you did it. My stomach ached as I read your words. Since the two of you never experience the birth of a child, all the more reason in my book not to be there with OW. So what did you do? Did you stay with your H? Did he develop new feelings for OW? Do you have C with OC? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also added this to the beginning of my letter:
Please know that I do truly love you and I have been happy with our life together with our children. When we don't think about these difficult issues or when my mind does not wonder into doubt, I can honestly say that life seems normal. I would like us to come to some agreement so that we can continue in our married life together and we can be happy. I know it may be difficult at times but I feel that we can do it. I don't want to loose you and what we have accomplished over these last few months.

LMF,

It is only by God's grace that I even have my right mind to be on here telling my story. It is posted on the "Is it too late" thread started back in Feb.

To make a long story short, H & I decided we weren't going to have kids, I got my tubes tied. He changed his mind later & didn't tell ME. We had other problems as well & he turned to OW for advice the A started, in the meantime I am preparing to have a tubal reversal so we can have a baby together, OW gets pg. I had strong suspicions & confronted him about it, he lied until July 2002, I threw him out that day & he went to live w/ OW, always told me that we weren't over, he loved me & wanted to stay married, he came home after 2 weeks, I threw him out again cuz his contact w/ OW was too much. So on delivery day he was already living w/ her so he saw his D come into the world, then lived w/ OW & her 2 other kids until April 2003.

God put forgiveness in my heart almost immediately after I found out about OW & the pg. H always told me & OW he would come home. OW has been a problematic since he came home, that is why I said establish boundaries now, & accept nothing less than you can live with, it is so important. In my case things were set in motion before I knew anything, he shared her pg. fully - dr. appts. all of it, plus the middle of the nite feedings etc. It was a real hard pill to swallow. Even now that he is home OW won't allow the baby in our home & we don't have legal visitation so I have seen her on & off since she was born. That is H's fault, he could set boundaries w/ OW but hasn't.

After all this I still doubt we are going to make it, but only God knows, I figure I am stil in this for a reason. I know God has a plan for me & it is good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BG,

I think that when my H told me of OW being preg. I forgave him immed. It's weird, I did not freak out when he told me, I did not cry, nothing negative. I just said we would work it out..together. The thing is my H does not remember some very specific things I told him in the days following the news.

Well here we are, almost 9 mos. later and at times it does not feel like we are doing this together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Even now that he is home OW won't allow the baby in our home & we don't have legal visitation so I have seen her on & off since she was born. That is H's fault, he could set boundaries w/ OW but hasn't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do they put their tail betweeen their legs when it comes to OW? Why do they give OW the control, not stand up to them but give the W no control and will stand up to anything we ask? They will do anything to avoid confrontation and hurting OW. Is it all guilt driven? If so, do they not feel guilt regarding us?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After all this I still doubt we are going to make it, but only God knows, I figure I am stil in this for a reason. I know God has a plan for me & it is good! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel the same way too.

I wish you good luck.

LMF,

I think my H kisses OW's butt cuz she has his only child & he doesn't want to rock the boat w/ her, I am not excusing his actions at all. He should have told her when he came back home he wanted regular visitation w/ his D & if she didn't agree to it, then it would be done by the courts which it should be anyway.

If at all possible don't let OW start to dictate to your H how & when he will see OC. If the OC is his he is the father, you are the stepmom so she just has to get used to it & deal w/ it accordingly. Get everything done legally too that takes away her power right then & there. You have to be united though or there will be big problems.

I wish you all the best too.

P.S. Did you give him the letter?

If so what was his reply?

He ended up working late last night so I did not give him the letter. Tonight we are supposed to talk, I will give it to him right before that. I did go out and get a card, as you suggested. It's kind of cute. Thanks for asking. I will let you know tomorrow how it went. I pray to God that it all goes smoothly and we are not hating each other or on our way the see an atty. I must admit, I am a tad bit scared.

It is only natural to feel that way, but remember God did not give us the spirit of fear...

This is a scary situation though, but you are doing what is right, you are fighting for your M so you do what you have to.

I am praying that all goes well for you this evening.

LMF

Good Luck with the letter. ((((HUGS)))). You are in my thoughts and we will all anxiously await an update.

Hi LuvMyFamily,

Sorry I read your letter a bit late. I think it says everything you want to say except for DNA testing. My situation is so identical to yours with my husband attitudes and everything. I really hope he will wake up. I plan to give mine a copy of your thread: Stacia Lee and Others Questions I need help with. I have printed and highlighted parts I want him to read. His response will determine if we stay together even though he has been extremely sweet the last few days with the exception of last weekend. I hate to break-up the honeymoon between us but then maybe while he is in a good mood is the time to have him read this. I want him to know other women feel the same as me and I am not a baby for feeling hurt that he wants to run see his kid by himself.

I wanted to post a reply about the issue of your husband being in the delivery room. I am a father and the spouse who was betrayed. I support your fundamental position that your husband should respect your wishes and not be the delivery room when the baby is born because of risks of bonding with the OW and because it would be primarily to help the emotional needs of the OW.

However, your husband's desire to be present may primarily come from a desire to see his new child be born. Men are often disconnected from the pregnancy and birthing process, but are just as excited and proud of the new life they have brought into the world.

This does not mean that those traditional, normal fatherly feelings should trump the fact that this child was brought into the world through an act of evil and betrayal. But just a word of caution that at leasat part of his desire to be there may be geniue and not connected to the OW.

Well Ladies and Gentleman how can I possibly find the words to express just how poorly the whole thing went. It was down right awful. Let's just say that my eyes are so puffy I look like Rocky (from crying).

I gave him the letter and I could tell from the look on his face, he was not happy with it. We were interrupted so we did not discuss the letter till about an hour or more later. He started by saying that he does not want to fight with me and I totally agreed. I said if it felt like we were on the verge of that, we should table the conversation till tomorrow. However, that only lasted for about 15 mins or so.

As he spoke I tried to interject where appropriate and he got mad and then called me a stupid B****. After a few nasty names I got up and told him I was finished with our conversation for the night.

He then proceeded to follow me to the bedroom and continue to be nasty. He told me that: I expect way more consideration than I deserve.
That I am an egotistical B****
That he will be at the birth!
That I want an iron clad agreement that nothing will happen
That I want to make sure everything is done MY way so that I do not have to trust him.
I said, yes in a way that is correct. That he has not earned all my trust back and that he needs to earn it, and should not have to give it.
There was more but I can't think of them now.

He continued to make fun and ridicule my feelings and when I started to cry. He mocked me Oh, I am so worried that you might bond with her. Oh yah, and maybe I will just F her right there in the delivery room I told him that I will not apologize for my feelings. That yes I am worried about the bonding with her and I have good reason too and I will not apologize for that. There is nothing wrong with me feeling that way.

August1972 -That is what he said is the reason he wants to be there. I can understand that but I also feel that he needs to look out for our marriage and frankly put my needs at this time before his. He can be there but then I should be too, in the waiting room, someplace. Or we both can be in the waiting room and he can be there after the child is born. Just imagine your W asking OM to be there but not you or with you. I think that would be a hard pill to swallow.

Plus my H wanted her to abort. So I ask, why now does he feel that he needs to be there if he wanted her to kill it?

He also makes excuses about how she and I can't be in the same room with each other or how she won't agree to me being at the visitation. So I ask you, who's feelings is he looking out for? Mine or hers? Who is getting more consideration?

I have been the Giver in the M for a long time. I have given things he wanted in spite of how they hurt me. He refused to move back home until my mom was gone. In the mean time, I had to stand by as he lived with her. I sent my mom away right before Christmas because he refused to spend Christmas with me and the kids if she was there. That same year, after he moved home and my mom moved away, he said that he was going to spend NYE with OW because he promised her and could not let her down. It hurt me like hell but I accepted it. He made excuses about conversations he "had" to have with her in the inital months of her preg. These meetings were at his apt., alone with her. I think he got her a mother's day card w/o my knowledge. I have done other things at his request because I wanted to make the M work and wanted him to be happy.

So, you see, if you look at Harley's definition of a Giver and a Taker, I have been the Giver to the point it hurts me and it goes against my beliefs and he, takes, takes, takes. He is not ever willing to Give something that hurts him or is uncomfortable for him to help another.

If the birth was the only thing, maybe I could deal with that. However, he is talking about one on one visitation w/ OC & OW at OW's place. I ask you, if that is the case, where am I in this marriage. Am I not his wife and the step-mother of his child? If I am then I should be part of that visitation too.

My other fear is that I give in on this and the visitation and before you know it, he will be telling me that he wants to spend the night to see the baby more, and then it will be a week. He will not stop until he gets everything he wants and he could care less who he hurts in the process.

He even made a comment about our kids and something to the effect that they just have to deal with it. That is not fair to them.

He thinks that he can mess everyone's life up (and I even include OW in this) and that everyone must bow down and agree to him. He take no responsibility for the destruction he causes, we are all just supposed to accept it.

So with all of that said, my decision is made. If he will not respect me, then I have no choice but to respect myself. I can not be his door mat any longer.

Genia,

I am glad you thought my post and the responses were helpful. I hope the best for you and your situation. I hope you H will understand you and your needs.

Good luck.

Hi LuvMyFamily,

I feel very sad for you and for me. I planned to give him the thread with the highlighted parts I want him to read. He has said some very hurtful things similar to what your husband said when I have approached the subject before. I just want to show him your thread to show him that I am not the only one. I feel very sad for your children because your husband takes no regard for you or his children. I am so angry with your husband for hurting you like that your wife and mother of his children. I did not show my husband the thread because he is being sweet right now and I don't want to ruin the nice moment. I will wait till later to show him but I expect the same reaction you got. My husband never comforts me when I cry either. He can care less.

Genia,

Oh, I know that feeling of not wanting to ruin the good times. I have pushed this conversation off for so long, for those same reasons. You don't want to rock the boat when the ride is nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In the past when I brought it up, the same thing would happen, we would not talk for a day or two then it would be forgotten, blow over and all would be fine again. However, nothing was resolved.

Things were nice last night too but I could not wait any longer. We had a wonderful Sunday when he returned home so I did not want to ruin that moment so I put it off again.

Depending on with OW is due, don't put it off for too long. Or at least, put it off till you can't take it any longer. That is where I am at. I could not stand not being sure where his head was. I know what he said but I held out hope for change. I could not wait any longer to find out if he changed his mind. My stomach would actually flop when the phone rang, thinking it might be OW saying that she was in labor (she had pre-term contractions last month) and us not having made a decision. So, I felt that no matter how good things were going, I needed to have this conversation.