KT, I knew you where toooo much of a woman to let brain dead tell you what you are going to do. It was worth fighting for when it started and still is. The OC only hope of being part of a family is w/you. I know the OC doesn't come over BC, but she also means something to you too. You cant be around a child and not bond with them. You can keep your feelings on reserve because you never know when physco mom is going to act up, but still why give this woman the ball and let her run with it. You are living happy and I wouldn't let her matter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Just a question how long have you had C? And how old what OC when it started?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

KT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know this is a really tough question, but have you & H considered ending contact w/ OC? It just seems that OW is bound & determined to cause a problem, she is definitely not thinking about what is best for OC, just jealous it seems because you guys have put your lives back together & are not stuck in the past like she obviously is.

I know you two have put a lot of work into establishing visitation w/ OC & have tried very hard to work w/ OW, but it seems as if she is hell bent on being a pill. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wrote those words to you last week not realizing how close to the edge you really were. As someone said you have fought the good fight & IMHO you have gone well above & beyond the call of duty. How could you hold all your feelings in for the next 12 yrs.??? That would kill you slowly, don't even think of trying to do that & why should you. No one would blame you if you walked away from all this, I don't really see you taking a back seat & letting OW & H handle everything while you are treated as non-existent????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW made it clear what her issues are. She totally wants this to be something BETWEEN her & H, me excluded. I knew that already. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this is OW's mindset then how is this ever going to work w/o tearing your family & M apart, even w/ the best united front btwn you & H OW seems determined to cause problems. If OW doesn't still want your H, she will be content to make sure you & your kids don't have him either by playing these games, trying to cause friction in your M.

If you come to decision that contact has to stop it will be unfortunate for OC but YOU & H TRIED, that is all you can do, & it is more than most would do. It is so sad that OW is depriving her child of the best possible life she can have under the circumstances, but that is on her & she will have to answer for her choices one day. Please know you are in my prayers regarding whatever path you chose.

WHEW!!!!!!!!! What a night & morning we have had!

I spoke to the therapist last night.....what seemed like forever! She said she would call OW & find out WTH was going on & try to talk some sense into her & then call me back.

Spoke to her again today.....she was still trying to talk sense into OW. Therapist spoke to her for 1.5 hours trying to get through to her. Therapist herself was wondering what the heck had changed that I had been p/u-d/o OC w/o any problems and now suddenly OW ONLY wants H to do all the driving & transporting of OC!?! Can't get through to OW that this is utterly ridiculous.
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Finally, I told therapist (again) that this is it! We are totally done. I'm sorry for OC but only partially because I did not create this situation. We have done EVERYTHING possible to make this work. Told her that it will never be perfect for OC, OC will never be w/ father full time & never be w/ mother full time & OC will NEVER have her parents together. OW & H made choices & it is time for everyone to take their consequences, grieve, heal & get on w/ their lives. We cannot & will not continue fighting over the same things over & over again. It is hurting EVERYONE & I have a responsibility to MY kids to protect them. Sorry for OC but that is how it is.

Every one needs to cut their losses & get on w/ it. Told her that just because we are done, I know, does not mean that it is over but for now......this is it. Maybe in a few years things will change......maybe not, I don't know. We will have C w/ OC ONLY throught the mail so that she will not think we have forgotten about her & she will always know how to reach us if she wants.

We have nothing else to give. It has been the same junk for the past 2 years & it has to end now. I let her know of all the times OW has tried to make H choose between OC & BC, try to force us into positions of choosing BC activities or OC visitation...blah blah blah...I was so upset I just broke down crying.

Therapsit told me how much OC was looking forward to spending this time w/ us, a whole week. I told her OC K grad was tonight & after all of this we don't even want to go. How OW family has been rude, given us dirty looks, even to the kids & we are not gonna put them through that again. The tension is just not worth it, it's over. I have gone above & beyond (she agreed) I explained that OW keeps saying she wants H to take responsibility and H HAS been!

I don't know of any other situations like this where people have put in this much effort. And I sure as heck don't know of any other men that spend this much time w/ their kids to begin w/ like we do w/ OC. I know of 1 father that sees his dd MORE than we do OC but he is 5 months behind on his CS so......!! This IS taking responsibility.

blah blah blah blah.

Therapist called OW back again. Told her we were done that was it! Told her that I got so upset that I was crying & that I feel sorry for OC but that H & I are done fighting & we are not going to fight anymore. Told her we are so uncomfortable around OW family that we did not even want to go to OC K grad, they have treated us badly, whether she was aware of it or not but people can be unkind. Told her that we care about OC but we are not going to keep doing this over & over so we are finished!

She said that OW got real quiet and then said, "Well, I don't want OC to not have a father." SO therapist told her then you need to think of something that will work & stick to it & stop changing plans all the time & making changes to the agreement!

She told OW to look @ the positive things, that I have done a lot here & I am willing to do all this driving so that OC can spend time w/ her dad. Willing to do this so that H doesn't have to be stressed out & in a rush, coming straight from work. OW wants OC to spend time w/ dad so by letting me p/u OC, that will happen.

SSOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Today is totally shot! But I will be picking up OC from daycare TOMORROW! Therapist said that we will make up this day somewhere along the line, we will get to that later. All one step @ a time & her goal for the moment was to get OC to our home!

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This works out for the best today anyway. I'd rather take the ktbunch to a birthday party @ the park than be around OW stupid family as they stare & try to give me dirty looks!
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SO the adventure continues!

Maybe it will work this time since OW really knows how serious we are now. I don't know.

PS: I think I am gonna go get a REAL pedicure today! I don't care how much it cost! I really deserve it after all this junk! Plus a large jamba juice & giant cinnabon!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Heck! I'll treat the ktbunch too!

Man I can't wait until my H gets home & can wrap his big strong arms around me so I can melt into his bear hug!!!!! I am never gonna let him go!

I am wiped out! WHEW!

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

KT,

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. DON'T GIVE THAT WENCH THE UPPER HAND. TAKE YOUR TIME AND MAKE THE DECISION BEST FOR YOUR FAMILY. OW IS A FOOL SHE IS LUCK THAT SHE DOES NOT HAVE A PSYCHO TENDING TO HER CHILD DURING HER VISITATIONS. THESE WOMEN ARE FOOLS THEY DON'T SEEM TO REALIZE THAT HER ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. THEY THINK THAT THEY CAN JUST HAVE WHATEVER THEY WANT AND GET AWAY WITH IT. WELL DUH!! SOMETHING IS BOUND TO HAPPEN AND INDEED SHE WILL FIND THAT OUT IF YOU DECIDE ON NC.

IT IS HARD AS HECK TO RAISE KIDS WITH A H HEAVEN ONLY KNOWS HOW HARD IT IS WITH OUT A H AND SUPPORT SYSTEM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SHE SHOULD BE GLAD THAT YOU EVEN ACCEPT THIS CHILD. YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I JUST PRAY THAT YOU RAMAIN STRONG AND YOUR H REMAINS A CONSTANT WITH THIS SITUATION.

BE BLESSED,

JT

dang yer quick! I was editing----come back & you already posted! whew!

but hey......why are you YELLING? lol

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said that OW got real quiet and then said, "Well, I don't want OC to not have a father." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KT - I know you weren't surprised by that comment, oh what an idiot STOW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I wanna slap her for you. Thank God for your therapist, maybe just maybe the dumb bunny will wake up & stand by what she said for her daughter's sake.

Hang in there girl!

IF God is for us, who can be against us?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What did your H have to say about what transpired?

Did you all plan ahead to say "that's it", or was it a spur of the moment thing?

OW is singing another tune. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

How are things coming along on the legal end of things? I ask, because I think OW will only be scared by your seriousness and threats of NC for just so long, and then back to the same crapola unless some more boundries are made clear in the paperwork.

We had agreed a few months back that we would do all we could BUT if OW still tried to play games (or noticed signs of stress on BC) then we would have to STOP it. Enough was enough. Like, "one more" chance.

Well, we started to notice a few things on our side (BC). Took a different approach on our end, which helped. Then OW starts this junk again this week (we could see it coming last few weeks). So it was semi-planned & I let the therapist know all of this.

legal side? no $$$$$. BUT H mentioned selling his car to get $$$$ for attorney....if it would help. It might. We have a CO now that OW 'interprets' any way she feels like it......it's just not enforceable. A new CO would only help by being more clear & enforceable so that we could call the police over discrepencies.

I was debating on whether I wanted to spend $$$$ on it or not, if it would help or not. My H car is not worth that much (it's HIS 'dream car' but not necessarily any one else's LOL) but any bit helps.

If nothing else, H could @ least request a mediation (free) through the courts & AT LEAST get the CO we currently have rewritten in a more legal/enforceable way. (which I did suggest to him months ago! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> tsk tsk tsk!) That might help too.

We have been praying over this & the other night we felt @ peace that whatever happened the next day would be a HUGE sign & deciding factor. Well, OW finally semi-gave in. Yes, I can p/u OC today, but she still got to ruin it for us to see OC for her k grad. (which I suspected was also @ the root of this but that is just me)

But since she did finally go back to allowing me to p/u OC, then I take that @ face value that God wants us to stay involved @ this point, @ least.

So that is where we are @ that. We (H & I ) have appointment w/ therapist Mon. She said she really wanted to talk w/ H. ???

I think a mediation appointment, @ least, is a MUST right now. Even if no changes to Co ar made but to make what we have enforceable. That can only help. H will just have to put up w/ being in same room w/ OW for awhile & listening to her madness by himself.
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Man, this is a REALLY good way to get them to see who OW really is. I know he hates himself & regrets every day, ever laying eyes on her (much less anything else! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> idiot!lol). He HATES her, just who she IS, can't imagine WHAT he ever saw in her!!!! Never saw THIS coming,that's for dang sure! She REALLY makes me look good & helps H to see what a GREAT decision he made to stay married to ME though!!!! hahahahahahahaha! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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This is just the calm before the storm I think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NOONE can fight me ........ & expect to win!
AND I will even play FAIR!
I guarantee it.

AND if I don't play fair, I will make you THINK you win & I will still win! SO watch out!
I can be a VERY cunning woman!

I have ALL the power! {sinister laugh} hahahahahahah! L-O-L! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> j/k <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

KT you are a trip! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> You and your situation is a prime example of IF you do contact, GET everything, Everything, in writing. I really don't know myself if they really want Contact to happen. Alot of them (OW) call them a$$ dads, ect for not having contact, but not but a few want to "WORK" with the a$$ dad and BS to make this child grow up knowing their father without constant problems. Or do we just have all the crazy ones? Do they just want the money and go on? They should get the hint that they are home and just forget it. What kind of person just keeps on after a person who has told them "you where a mistake" and "I didn't want this child" just keeps on? DO they not have a clue. I mean do they expect them to just give up their other children to be with them? We haven't even begun the legal battle of visitations, ect, but I do have a book and I'm writing everything I want and needs to be in the papers. Also as an incentive if she breaks it she has to pay for us to go back to court. Include time off form work, my meds LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> for dealing with her crazy butt! Do they have any idea how it makes them look? I feel for these children and if they put them in the MM custody it might be a sign for them to not to make the MM "pick". I feel this is most of the reasoning behind the "on purpose pg". Is it to punish the MM for telling them the lies, or is it to remain close to the MM even if it is on bad terms. Just to be a part of the MM life? I guess we will never know, cause they ain't going to tell us why! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

H & I had our appointment w/ therapist yesterday (Monday). I am %99 sure she can clearly see OW for the games she is playing. It seems her stance is like, ok we are dealing w/ an emotional, game playing person so what is the best way to deal w/ an emotioanl game playing person?-------because obviously we cannot change her.

I was afraid no one would ever believe us & afraid that the therapist would totally take OW side & really not believe us, because the 2 sides were so different......but lo & behold that was not the case. OW has revealed her true self so clearly and we never had to say much of anything! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We have just started to reveal what we truly think of this situation & OW & therapist agrees w/ us. Saying she has seen what we are describing in OW, has heard for herself OW say the things we are telling her. Just this last stunt about me p/u OC....therapist could talk no sense into OW.
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So anyway, therapist first questioned why email is our preferred method of communication because she said that the intention (tone) of email can be misconstrued. While we agree w/ that we reiterated that because of our problems we MUST have everything in writing @ all times. She understood & agreed.

She said that after talking w/ OC herself, she knows that OC is safe & wanted here & OC knows it. OC DOES want to spend time w/ us.

Also agreed that communication will continue through me. Is trying to get OW to see that as a good thing. OW has told the therapist that she has NO problem w/ me personally, is confident in my care of OC blah blah blah OW volunteered that info to therapist so therapist is going to try & continue to use OW own words to get her to be cooperative. (ie: no problem w/ W/me so continue communication through W/me, continue to allow W (me) to p/u OC)
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See, I KNEW OW was/is trying to get H to be what SHE thinks he should be, the dad she thinks H should be to/for OC! uh hello? H will be the father he is, not what she THINKS he should be! H is a great father AND if anyone is going to be able to influence him it will ONLY be me! But even I know that I can't change him! He is good enough as it is. OW is an idiot! She can't change him or try & force him to be something!

OW wants to think that she has some sort of control or power over him. That she has some sort of influence over him. That they have a 'bond' because they have a child together! duh! they do NOT have a child together. OW had a child that just happens to be from my H sperm! BIG difference. H & I have children together. know what I mean?
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Therapist said she is trying to get OW to see that we are a "team", whatever works in that crazy pea brain of hers.

I told her that I am trying to work WITH OW for OC. How I keep a logbook & requested that 'we' keep a behavior log as well (to keep track of OC 'emotional problems') except OW will not contribute to it. Therapist strongly recommended that I continue to keep the log AND make sure that when it is filled that I keep possession of it. She said that she had to do that for her kids (when dealing w/ messy divorce) & it really helped her in court.

Therapist agreed w/ us that none of us understand what OW is referring to when she keeps saying that H has to 'take responsibility'. I said maybe she is offended that I write in the logs instead of H, but I am the journalist of the family & I do that for ALL of my kids so H would never do something like that. That is just how it is. H is not gonna start for OC just because OW says so!

Therapist final point was that she would talk to OW, again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> to clarify this summer schedule. Told us do not drop OC off! since the CO is that OW will p/u OC. She said for us to just keep her until OW comes. She even said to not even communicate w/ OW this week, she would call OW herself to let OW know & then would call us back. Would also clarify that both H & I are on the 'list' to sign OC in & out from the daycare center. blah blah blah!
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Also gave H some advice on how he can use the courts for free to refile the CO w/ the clerk to make it more clear & enforceable.
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It's all so stupid but......OC does really NEED us. I sincerely believe that.
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So......planning our first summer get away next week. Used a site called reserveamerica.com to make a reservation @ a favorite beach camp. They have access to over 100,000 campsites.

I can't wait to get cozy w/ my H under the stars w/ the sounds of the waves to lull us to sleep (after we make our own waves! haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) .....roast some marshymellows w/ the ktbunch! ahhh! the relaxation! I'll finally get a chance to sport my new bikini that I haven't even had a chance to wear yet! Hope I don't blind anyone w/ my white skin. lol

Hope the June gloom is gone by then! It's a week away but I am so looking forward to it like it's tomorrow! woohoo! Can't help but imagine my H 1/2 naked @ the beach...dripping wet from boogie boarding.......mmmmmmmgood! He is gonna get so dark! Oldest son too! He gets so dark (like dad) that I once mistook a little black boy as him because they had the same color clothes on! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> LOL (hey, they were a bit away & I didn't have my glasses on LOL but they matched each other, same skin color, hair color & clothes!)

So anyway, that's the latest. Should be quiet on our end for awhile but....you just never know w/ the ktbunch what will turn up next. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />