Yes ladies, I blame my H and OW both the same. However, I told OW in my situation that SHE was even worse than H for bringing a baby into this....WHY? No other reason than that WOMEN are naturally the ones who have to carry a baby.. they are the ones who HAVE to keep things together (no pun intended)... As women (sorry men I love you too).. we HAVE to usually be the strong and prudent ones, as men are just that.. men. Many men are known to try desperately to get into a woman's pants... and if there is no protection.. well.. they keep trying anyway if they can't control themselves....As women (at least throughout my whole life) we have to respect ourselves and act like ladies cause the men--well they want us BAD... LOL. Big responsibility, yes, cause of course there were many times in life I wanted to throw caution to the wind and get it on... but I had to be strong and cool and collect myself and my hormones.

I would NEVER in a million years allow any man, married or otherwise, to talk me into entering my body without protection .. ESPECIALLY IF HE IS NOT MINE ALL MINE-- NOT TO MENTION MARRIED!! GROSS!!!!!!!!

We are the soldiers of the two genders.. really aren't we?? We hold down the fort and thats why God made us the mommies!

I became pregnant when I was 17 years old, and in fact, had skipped protection a couple times with my longterm boyfriend... OOPS!! Teenagers can say OOPS... but I just don't understand the OOPS theory in adult women. I can't imagine OOPS.. when I am MARRIED WITH KIDS.... OR IF THE MAN IS MARRIED!!! Do any of these women get a flash in their heads of the broken hearts of the kids involved...?

Now, I told OW exactly this "H is totally responsible too- he is going to be punished in every way possible by himself and me and otherwise... BUT DUH why would you LET the [censored] have sex w/you without protection? He's a MAN."

WAIVER: Not all men are like this. My H WAS but is now peeeeerfect LOL.. AND if you are reading this and you are NOT this type of man, which not ALL men are, please accept my generalization of men. xo, Giavonna

Please, no disrespect meant to anyone, but once again we're getting off the track. It isn't about "who's fault" the preganancy was, because for all of us, whichever side, it is ancient history. The question is what now?

My question was about reasonable v. unreasonable behavior. I have already stated a view that attempting to keep the W out of the child's life is something I personally consider unreasonable, but again, what I'm reading here is blame. Lets try to get past that and focus on what is best NOW. Yes, I agree that NC is sometimes best, sometimes not. It is a very personal thing...

I'm still going back to the same thing. What do you know to be TRUTH and FACT, not personal opinion, that makes OW unreasonable?

Hi MeNtheBoyz,

It is most of us here have problems with OW being unreasonable about calling our house, interfering with our lives, and trying to break up our marriages. Not to mention many OW expect married men to visit OC in OW's home. Read our threads and you will see that many OW are doing this to us the BS. We are in no way saying that you have that problem so rest your conscience. Like you said your child was created due to failed Birth Control. And you are not trying to break up a marriage so be at peace and take care of your baby. Read KTbunchs thread for example of how BS can go to every length possible and still have things not work out. It is so sad.
Peace.
(((((((((((MeNtheBoyz)))))))))))

I do understand from both sides of the child being around the BW.

With Xmm W, she had threaten harm to the kids. One time when the kids were visiting she was so drugged up, Xmm had to take her to the med station for an overdose after. As things went on, I let the kids go to his house. I had to bite my tounge and let things happen even though I didn't like his W ( I knew her before the affair) and how she is with kids (even her own grandchildren). In the end, as long as she was decent to the kids I had no complaint. Both the W and I were civil during pick up and drop offs. But that is now history as visits are done with.

Now with H Xow, Oc is 5 1/2, he has only been to our home without his mother 3 times. Xow keeps playing games using the child as a pawn. As much as I want to say screw her, I'm standing by H side while he now takes her to court. This is a first for us.

I think the OW need to realize that they can't control who the child is around. Unless these people are sexual predators then there isn't much they can do. So the OW can whine all she wants to about OC being around the W, I think the OW should be gratful that the W is opening her house to the OC.

Hi CrazyMum,

Well said. This thread did start about contact and sorta went off on a tangent. I guess contact is only healthy when adults can act like adults and do what is best for the child involved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like you said your child was created due to failed Birth Control. And you are not trying to break up a marriage so be at peace and take care of your baby </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just wanted to correct you on one tiny thing...the failed BC baby was my older son, my little one is the "OC" (though the waters are muddy)

edited to add: but you're right, I am most certainly not trying to break up a marriage.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: meNtheboyz ]</small>

MO3B. Do you have C or NC and why. Why is it working or not working? I want and have agreed we should do C. But the child isn't even here yet and the OW has started on the "don't want her around my child" thing. She has no reason to do that and as far as I'm concerned, I know a mothers fears for her child and this thinking of It came out of MY body and I and I alone could have died having this child, so there for it is MINE by all sence of the word, but I had my child w. my H and not w someone elses. If she didn't mind sharing my H, then she shouldn't mind sharing HIS child w. HIS family that she knew he had. See my point!
If this child is indeed my H then he and we, because WE are the family unit, have every right to spend equal time w/ this child. Not wait til its 2 or 3. If he can spend 8 or more hours at the day care, then he can come to my home. And if she didn't want to "share" her joy, why would she think I would mine? I think visits should be allowed at 6-8 weeks, yes, that is fair and for this child to spend the weekends w/ my family and bond like it should be allowed to. Also maybe 1-2 evenings in the week until school starts. This is called Co-parenting, 50/50. We are fine with helping in supporting this child to the fullest and expect visits to go the same. I don't see how on missing out on the bonding that the baby so need at a young age. I really dont expect anyone to agree w/ me, but at least the law does.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Sunny,

I think you meant that post for me, so I'll answer it.

First off, I am opposed to an OW demanding NC between her child and the W provided the W is a decent person, which is virtually always the case. I will say that I might have tepid feelings at first, regarding visits before the child has adjusted.

As for my situation, I currently have NC, and to be honest, I'm quite happy with things that way. However it seems that might change in the very near future, according to my lawyer. Due to recent revelations, I'm a bit of an emotional mess myself...
I have no ill feelings toward the W in my situation. While I'll admit I'd rather NC be continued, I recognize the legal rights of the father and will do whatever I can to be the most composed and decent I can be. Within reason, I will be as amicable as possible, but for me that will be very hard. And no, it isn't because I care for him, it's because I hate him. Personally, I don't want him within 50 yards of my child, but again, I will do all I can to let things run smoothly. Does that mean bending to any and all demands by them? No. But certainly to any reasonable requests.
I hope to focus on the positive aspect of my child knowing his sibling.

Hi MeNtheboyz,

I do not think any of this was meant towards all OW but particularly at our OW. Many of us are haveing problems with our OW. I am sorry that you might have to hand your child over to a man you hate. I kinda hate my husband from my second marriage because he abused me but he is good to my kids and they love him. So the focus needs to be placed on what is best for the kids involved. I have always been a strong beleiver in doing what is best for the kids even when it hurts.

MeNtheBoyz- What is unreasonable is for any ow to even think her child is the only one that matters. The oc is not the only one who gets a raw deal here, and certainly not the most important person in this scenario. If the MM and his wife reconcile, wheather there are children or not, and choose no contact, it is unreasonable for the ow to assume that the oc should be considered part of their family as a wanted and cherished child. If that couple has children and that couple chooses to protect their children from all the upheaval and drama the oc would bring to that family, to bad if the ow doesn't like it. The ow is 50% responsible for getting pregnant, and 100% responsible for the choice to have or keep the child. OW are unreasonable to think that everyone should cow-tow to her child. That is selfish, but typical thought process of the ow.

And Need to move on, you state "..gave birth to my child ....that is what is best for MY family..." So, you state that it was YOUR choice to have this child and what was best for YOUR family. So be it. But are you going to leave the XMM alone, not ask for child support since that may not be BEST for his family? Or, in typical OW fashion, is your decision to have that child, and keep it going to be forced upon them?

As for the same old "What is best for the chid" argument, bring it on ladies. What is best for the oc is NOT what is best for my children, and therefore his needs are a moot point. Me and my children did not create this mistake, and shall not be forced to clean up the mess. Had the ow wanted daddy for her baby, she should have made damm sure he was available for the job.

The oc is just one of many who are going to get hurt, no more or no less important then anyone else. So get off your "what is best for the oc" rant, since the children of the marriage have "what is best for them" too, and many times that is kicking the ow/oc to the curb with a check to alleviate the drama and upheaval caused by the situation.

And, I agree with Sunny, if a couple wanted to see the oc, etc. and it doesn't work out (KT), it is the fault of the ow, and it ususally is cause she is a manipulative shrew who hates being cast aside. THAT is why most contacts fail. THAT is why I am such a firm advocate for no contact. To much drama and bullcrap, and the nuclear family deserves to live their lives without the hassle of the ow/oc. Let the ow have the oc, and she and her family can raise and love it.

It is obvious that when a BW agrees to contact, it is the ultimate threat to the ow. Look at how many ow are insecure about the wife being around the oc. They demand that the "father discuss this, or the father do that" Why? Is it such a big deal if the wife makes the plans and picks up the child? If they were so "Adult" about it, wouldn't they be happy that she even gave a damm? But it they try to exclude the wife, since their insecurities are at a fever pitch. OW want to play "family unit" with the MM and the oc.

So, if you want to babble on about "being adult" does not mean what is best for the oc. Being reasonable does not mean what is best for oc.

We were quite adult when we chose our children over the oc, and it was reasonable for our situation too.

Ok Lynn, I'm not even going to dignify your venomous response to me...it had absolutely nothing to do with my post, nor my own position on contact.
Attack whom you will, but I am not an appropriate target.

See you know first hand how the contact doesn't work itself. But every situation is different. Do a poll on TOW and see how many actually want contact. And like you said, YOU HATE HIM. Why? Is this the reason contact doesn't work. I think in order for it to work, there cant be any hate. Do I hate the OW in my life. No, like I said forgiveness is a VERY big part of me and the way God and only him wants me to be. Does the OW hate me, don't know. She has said she doesn't but then she doesn't want me around her kid. And I've got a hello for her MY H didn't change not one messy diaper the whole time she was in them. I had more to clean up if he did. LOL and as far as feeding, well, lets say I'm glad mine are older and can do it for themselves. Did he feed the baby, only a few times. So she better hope that I am here! Kids hold a place in my heart, no matter who they belong too. And like I said before I don't choose C cause my H wants it. Its because I want it, I want my D to know her brother/sister and that is my feelings. I want the c to go as smooth as it can, and if it doesn't that's why there are attorney's. And just to get off the cuff for a few questions. Say you died tomorrow, cause no one is promised tommorrow and your child has a father that had c then stopped and maybe never did c, but he's on the birth cert. What happens to that child? He/she is given to a famliy that they don't know, or never met? What then? Oh family memebers can fight for the child, but look at the scars that have already been done? that would be my fear. At least if this is H child that if something happen to the OW then we would be more than able to take custody and the child if given the chance, will still feel the loss but not be in a place that they didn't know anyone. And too w/ my child, she will know her sibling and the OW. If something happened to me and my H chose to go that route, then I hoped that the OW would be the best step mom to her as I would be to hers. And to me that is the adult thing to do. So if this child has a bio dad and you where not here, what then. To me its just getting a D, visitations should be liberal, and the child should know ALL of its family.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny d

Ah, mentheboyz, you stated "..What do you know to be TRUTH & FACT, not personal opinion, that makes the ow unreasonable?"

And I clearly stated WHY I FELT OW ARE UNREASONABLE. Where do you find the venom? The FACT is that the oc does not automatically get put on a pedestal. He is one of many who are hurt by two selfish people. PERIOD. His needs/wants are not more important then any of the other victims of those same two selfish people. Or do you see it differently? All I see are women who whine because the dad isn't around and how now the ow/oc are victims. Yet I never read of an ow who is appalled at what her participation has done to others, children included. I have stated it before and I will again. The oc gets as much consideration from me and my children as the ow gave to us. NONE.

meNtheboyz - a few more thoughts to you.

1. You quite obviously have NEVER been in a home or a discussion with a couple while they work out a marriage, after this has happened. The wife is not sitting around begging, as you can clearly read here These women are thinking, functioning women who are quite capable of sending him packing. But they don't. Based on many many things. The discuss and talk and discuss and talk. Decisions are made, etc. You want to think these are built on lies? You are seriously wrong in that assumption.

2. You seem to have a position that the BW spend time blaming the ow, and not their husbands. Wrong again. It's just that they know their husbands very well. Far better and deeper then you could possibly understand. That is where the ability to forgive comes from. The live together. How he holds her hair while she vomits, to when he rubs her cheek at night. Not just the sex. It is the long walks, the painting the bedroom together moments. A marriage is far far more then what goes on between the sheets. Yes the husband gets his. He also has to live with the extreme guilt. And yes, these men do wake up in the middle of the night and they cry. They want forgiveness and they are deeply ashamed of all the hurt they have caused. Read here, no woman would accept anything less. The ow gets venom? Of course, but she is not worthy of discussion or thought. SO when she is derided for being the whore, that is what her status in that house is. You want to think these women sit and blame the ow and then shove their heads in the sand? That is far far far from the truth.

3. Your pontificating her about the ow and oc really belongs on another board. I read where you wanted to know about what to expect with your XMM and visitation. That was dialog. Your messages here are passive agressive swipes at decent women who have done nothing to hurt you, or others. If they do take a swipe at thier ow, they are justified, afterall, the ow came into her life, not the other way around. Remember, the ow caused her lot in life, the BW is dealing with it.

4. You have been answered by many to what is unreasonable behavior of ow. Yet you keep ignoring what you read. Everyone had a viable message to you as to what was unreasonable, and why and you still don't get it. Bottom line is what is reasonable for the marriage may not be what you, as an ow wants to hear.


These women are kind hearted, and look how they have been willing to accept, love and care for the oc in their lives. Look at what these women have put up with. Look how strong Sunny is. She wants to welcome that child. Look at what KT and her children and family have been put through, her oc too. Those stories are all over. These are not evil, revengfull women, but decent and loving. They are willing to help you with your visitation issue and you come here with backhanded swipes? STOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> MeNtheBoyz- What is unreasonable is for any ow to even think her child is the only one that matters. The oc is not the only one who gets a raw deal here, and certainly not the most important person in this scenario. If the MM and his wife reconcile, wheather there are children or not, and choose no contact, it is unreasonable for the ow to assume that the oc should be considered part of their family as a wanted and cherished child. If that couple has children and that couple chooses to protect their children from all the upheaval and drama the oc would bring to that family, to bad if the ow doesn't like it. The ow is 50% responsible for getting pregnant, and 100% responsible for the choice to have or keep the child. OW are unreasonable to think that everyone should cow-tow to her child. That is selfish, but typical thought process of the ow.

And Need to move on, you state "..gave birth to my child ....that is what is best for MY family..." So, you state that it was YOUR choice to have this child and what was best for YOUR family. So be it. But are you going to leave the XMM alone, not ask for child support since that may not be BEST for his family? Or, in typical OW fashion, is your decision to have that child, and keep it going to be forced upon them?

As for the same old "What is best for the chid" argument, bring it on ladies. What is best for the oc is NOT what is best for my children, and therefore his needs are a moot point. Me and my children did not create this mistake, and shall not be forced to clean up the mess. Had the ow wanted daddy for her baby, she should have made damm sure he was available for the job.

The oc is just one of many who are going to get hurt, no more or no less important then anyone else. So get off your "what is best for the oc" rant, since the children of the marriage have "what is best for them" too, and many times that is kicking the ow/oc to the curb with a check to alleviate the drama and upheaval caused by the situation.

And, I agree with Sunny, if a couple wanted to see the oc, etc. and it doesn't work out (KT), it is the fault of the ow, and it ususally is cause she is a manipulative shrew who hates being cast aside. THAT is why most contacts fail. THAT is why I am such a firm advocate for no contact. To much drama and bullcrap, and the nuclear family deserves to live their lives without the hassle of the ow/oc. Let the ow have the oc, and she and her family can raise and love it.

It is obvious that when a BW agrees to contact, it is the ultimate threat to the ow. Look at how many ow are insecure about the wife being around the oc. They demand that the "father discuss this, or the father do that" Why? Is it such a big deal if the wife makes the plans and picks up the child? If they were so "Adult" about it, wouldn't they be happy that she even gave a damm? But it they try to exclude the wife, since their insecurities are at a fever pitch. OW want to play "family unit" with the MM and the oc.

So, if you want to babble on about "being adult" does not mean what is best for the oc. Being reasonable does not mean what is best for oc.

We were quite adult when we chose our children over the oc, and it was reasonable for our situation too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lynn i was waiting for YOU to enter into this thread . Everyone was being respectful to each other and giving there thoughts. PLEESZEEEEEEEEEE. no I'm not letting xmm out of cs. He had a very long relationship with me and he OWES it to his child. NOT ME....HIS CHILD. I have done it all without going into "loopholes" and something that I can sleep at night with and he will pay cs for his child. BOTTOM LINE. HE TOO IS DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR HIS FAMILY. YOUR DAMN straight I choose to keep my daughter. I was not GOING TO KILL HER or pawn her off to someone. I was 1/2 reapsonsible for bringing her into this world and by GOD I'm taking reasponsiblity for her. His only duty is to pay his little cs and go on with his life. *******edited by JustUss***** ANd LYNN I do have to thank you though....if it were not for reading your posts....and everything you DID to your oc to screw her out of cs that the child deserves I would be in the same boat as your xow, but I stayed one step ahead of the game thanks to you. So I guess I do owe you that much. So Thank YOU Lynn.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

A few more thoughts for you LYnn, Most wife do not sit there and beg........there are different people with different personalities. ****edited**** I've learned a lot about the "other side" by many bw whom I am friends with now, but you my mentor.....I learned to make sure xmm and his wife would not screw my daughter out of what she has coming to her, but at the same time, greed is something awful ugly and made sure I kept any and all greed out of it. Just because I don't want him seeing my daughter at this point does not mean he should not pay cs. ****edited**** I read your post and really I just skim them as they are always the same (just I did these of yours) and can't figure out where your heart is at. I know a lot of woman here want to be able to do the things you've done, but in reality not many have had the much needed money to do this as you need a good attorney that has no problem screwing over a child.
One more thing Lynn. You have no idea what your saying about why the ow does not want contact. Basically if the ow had a bw like you who has done what she has do to cast the child aside, why would she want that? Again your words the drama ....I totally agree. I could see if you had contact how if you had not total control over that child it would of made you mad. Your xow is lucky you threaten your husband with no contact. Geez........What's best for me is no contact with xmm. He's a lyer. He lied to his wife and he lied to me. He have proven not to want to be around the child so WHY would I WANT anyone around my kids that does not want to be there? NOPE. KT is a special circumstance. She tried and she had a reltionship with that oc. I know she is hurt by this whole thing. I think she truely loves the oc. SHE overlooked her feelings for the ow for having an affair with her husband as her husband wanted contact. She opened her home and heart up to that child. WHO knows why her xow acted like she did. Maybe it was casue she was "kicked to the curb"....maybe it was becasue her daughter loved KT, maybe it because she honestly felt that KT husband should handle the details and he was hiding behind KT skirt (sorry KT not intended to imply) who knows. The part you forgot to "quote" me is it takes all the adults to make it work. ALL OF THEM. I really hope I'm wrong about you Lynn as I don't label people as I've done with you. It's just not me, but some of things you come up with over and over just amazes me in your thinking. No. one your a mother. No two it's been years since your oc came. and you seem to have a whole lot more than most here do and you probaly pay less than all of them do. Only because you found loop holes and your xow did not have the *** or money to fight you and prove you wrong. You were one lucky woman lynng. What you did is a federal offence. If you would of been caught you could of sent your husband to jail. We just had a huge segment on it on tv news here a week ago. And I guess with you it goes back to that with me cause I can't believe some of the things you've said and done. It's so heartless. NO ONE has said in this thread that the bc or bw is no more not innocent....ONLY YOU>

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Your welcome.

I find it laughable that you breezed right past the other ow and her swipe at these fine women.

I also find it amusing that you find it hatefull that I put my own children first in my life. Isn't that what you are doing? Or, since we haev an oc, are we supposed to put them 2nd?

You have made some good points, but you keep falling back to that "best for the oc" banter, assuming that the only thing that matters is the oc. THAT is where I get on you. You must realize that there are other people involved with feelings and hearts and lives to live. Marriages with children, and all that goes with it. I do not condone destroying that family at the alter of one person. Yes, the oc gets hurt. But so does the wife and the children of the marriage and extended families. They all matter just as much. So if you think standing up for that unit is "HATEFULL" so be it.

I find it hypocritical to say that you choose to participate in adultery, then spout God as the reason to keep her.

As for you doing things legally, it should be. Long ago I remember bantering with you and saying those exact words. Legal protects everyone, including the oc. As for you getting your XMM in the legal vice I guess it is ok for you to utilize loopholes, but not a XMM? Interesting.

I also found your post aggressive to a bw and actually you and the other ow are the ones with their fangs out first, I just jumped in the fray.

Good Day (and yes, that is the Paul Harvey kind)

Mentheboyz,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As to the issue of whether or not this woman is still interested in your H...I know many women with OC's, and I can honestly say that chances are, if she's "pushing" contact, it may be that she has an agenda. I know many women with OCs, and virtually NONE who are "over" the H want contact. They simply want to be left to raise thier children. The one's who really want contact, often do still want the connection to MM.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You posted these words just last month so my question to you is would a "reasonable OW" push for contact w/o an agenda? Also if an OW is "over" the XMM is she being "unreasonable" if she does not want contact & she knows that XMM & BW do?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> completely agree that it is completely unreasonable to try to keep the W away from the child. However, the H has a legal right to have that child around anyone he chooses, so why is the OW to blame? Is the H standing up for his parental rights and demanding he have his visitation in his home? He should be. So again, it's blaming OW when the actual party responsible is H. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

IN MY SITUATION you are 100% right, my H has not chosen to pursue his legal rights concerning visitation so yes IN MY SITUATION H is totally at fault for that, but the fact remains that OW came up w/ the lame "uncomfortable excuse" AFTER my H came home. The baby had been around me many times since the age of one month while he was living w/ her & it was ok. So why did she change her tune?????? You tell me. Ahh, I call that "unreasonable"

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the general topic of "OW is just pissed my H doesn't want her"...
How do you know that?
If you haven't heard her SAY it, or read a letter or email in which she states it or something like it, it isn't FACT. It is merely your opinion and one that may be totally off. Where does the info come from? Does it come from a H who is already proven to be a liar? If so, it is most definitely not a reliable source. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

IN MY SITUATION OW told me to my face that the Lord would send her an H, it may be mine & it may not be. I know she wanted him otherwise she would not have let him live with her & her 2 boys, she would not have met his mother & sisters & she would not have started acting up as soon as he left her apt. to come home. My H didn't have to tell me anything about OW, they BOTH are liars cuz she knew about me from day one & didn't care.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not saying there aren't unreasonable women in these situations, and I don't support unreasonable actions. I support all of you building your marriages, but occasionally wonder what they are being built on, because it seems sometimes they are being built on more lies... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What lies are you talking about? First of all every situation is different, as is every person & yes an A is based on lies & even after it is brought to the light more lies some times are told but everybody knows that a marriage or any other relationship can't be built or re-built on lies. That is why the majority of A's don't last -they have no solid foundation.

I truly don't know of any BW on this board who lays ALL blame at the feet of OW, it takes two, OW can't get pg. by her self & she certainly didn't force a MM to have sex w/ her. My H is just as guilty as OW, I know I have never said different & yes I blame him even more than her cuz he was supposed to honor, cherish & be faithful to me his wife, OW owed me nothing.

I do blame OW for her actions now that the baby is here & my H is home w/ me cuz I know beyond the shadow of a doubt she has & is using the baby to drive a wedge between me & my H. All I am trying to say is the OW in my life is being "unreasonable" cuz she didn't keep my H. Also most of the OW's currently discussed on this site feel the same as in being pissed cuz they got a baby & not the babys daddy - I said MOST not ALL. And I am speaking totall from my own experience which I know to be FACT.

Also wondering why you hate your OC's father now, you obviously didn't at one time. Not being funny - just curious.

Lynn, re read my post..........you did not comprenend the post. As far as loopholes.....did not USE ANY.....did it all legal....YOU USED THE LOOPHOLES!!!! ***** I never said my child was the only one that matters or that I had her because of GOD. I too have said over and over my affair was very wrong and should have never happened. So please if you want to quote me, please quote me correctly. Also I recall meintheboyz putting down the bw....in fact.....she likes her bw a hell of a lot more than the xmm. She has said that at least 100 times. Amazing Lynn, I had an attorney who went by the book and refused to use loopholes and still xmm and wife were unable to hide the assets or screw my daughter over. We have a cap in this state which means I can't screw him over either....so he is not hurting for money or new truks and that outback seat of his is being sat in regulary..........so he is still living his good life. BTW..........He has to pay 100 medical.......I'm sure you'd like his phone number to talk that over with his wife??? Let me know.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Need to move on - Ah, YOU are hardly in a position to be calling your XMM a liar, afterall your are as low and as sneaky as he in this.

How wonderfull of you to take his money and not want him near HIS child.

My husband is hardly afraid of me!!! Lord!!
We had lots of conversations at D-day. We looked at it from all angles, contact, no contact, limited contact, how to do contact, what about this, what about that. It was hardly a 5 min. discussion. We spoke with others who had similar siutations. True, I said I would not want oc in my home, around my d. But we did discuss the whole thing. Had he wanted to see oc, we would have had an issue, no doubt. However, after reviewing all the options, WE decided no contact.

As for me being mean!!!!! LOL. Ok. I am a mean cruel horrible person!!! Hardly. However, I see these women here, in pain and confusion and I kick their bottoms to get them moving, to protect themselves. Read. I tell them to make dang sure it is what THEY want out of THEIR marriages and THEIR lives. I tell them to get legal advice!! I guess that makes me mean vulgar person for trying to protect them! Whatever. I stand up loudly and strongly that and will yell from the rooftops if I have to. I don't want to see these women run over by their hubands or ow. I don't want to see them sacrifice their one and only lives to try and please others, if that is not what they want. I tell them that it is perfectly acceptable to not want anything to do with oc and why no contact is a viable option. Funny, you yourself want no contact and you have a problem with wives not wanting it? As for the husbands, yes, they may have to make a choice if a wife says that she does not want the child around. That is where the work comes in. That is where they both have to be totally honest. Lord, I have said it a million times here. Get all out on the table. But go ahead, call me mean. But, I am NOT the one who was boinking somebody's husband behind her back, getting knocked up and then running with my hand out for child support. Destroying someones emotional and finacial future. Nope. Not me. I am the one telling the BW to protect the finances LEGALLY. There is not one thing we did that is ILLEGAL as it was all handled by attorneys. So you can get off your high, misinformed horse there. It's not our fault the loopholes were there and we took advantage. Afterall, don't you ow types (and you just admitted that you did) do the same thing? Use every LEGAL means necessary to extract every dollar you can? I am sensing some hypocritcal thinking here. I think YOU are mean to have the affair, be part of the hurt thrust on that woman.