Need to move on:

And before you say "he is the one who took vows, she is his problem" I would agree with you 100% that he TOO is at fault, more so for sure. And yes, I do remember you owning up to your participation in the affair. But your participation in it was MEAN.

So, what is her phone number? I will give her a call and let her know that she can lower his insurance, and tell her how to handle their future finances to protect HER future!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

I have no ill feelings toward the W in my situation.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I laughed so hard when I read this...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, of course you have no ill feelings for her... and why should you? After all ... SHE did not sleep with your husband and thus conceive a child out of wedlock ---> putting your marriage, your children, your family at risk.

I think your lack of ill will toward her is only reasonable ---> she has not earned any ill feelings from you by any misbehavior on her part. She was just living her life. You arrived into her life ... without an invitation from her.

The trauma inherent in this tragedy was not by her design or her desire.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I found your comment too funny! You bear no ill will toward a woman who never harmed you, but has been harmed by you.

Pep
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ok......BEHAVIOR I FIND UNREASONABLE:

+Bringing up A during conversations about OC.

+Bringing up A when there is a disagreement concerning OC.

+Bringing up A to ME.

+OW asking H (numerous times)to visit w/ OC w/o W & BC.

+OW saying in front of oldest BC that MM does not think he is his father.

+OW scheduling 'appointments' for OC during scheduled time w/ dad.

+Making important decisions regarding OC w/o H knowledge or consent when there is JOINT legal custody.

+Being unwilling to make a schedule change EVER @ our request but changing the schedule to her own convenience.

+Wanting CS from 'dad' but not wanting OC to have a 'dad'.

+OW agreeing to a schedule & then changing it @ will.

+OW insisisting on dropping off OC for a scheduled visit but arriving 1 hour late & then refusing to allow OC to stay an extra hour.

+Not allowing BW to 'transport' OC when dad gets off of work @ same time as OC gets out of school.

+OW insisting on being included w/ OC visits w/ 'dad'.

+OW requesting (numerous times) to 'cut back' on visitation after there was already a pattern & schedule established.

+OW taking away scheduled visits because it 'did not work for her'.

+OW agreeing to court orders & then filing orders saying that she did not agree but was pressured into it by the (trained court) mediators.

+OW making agreements then saying that she never agreed but only 'acted like she agreed'.

+OW requesting OC come 'home' early from dad's house for Father's day so that OC can spend time w/ grandpa.

+OW requesting that OC spend every holiday w/ her.

+OW requesting that OC spend the days of every member of OW family's birthday's w/ OW.

+OW requesting that OC spend 4 hours w/ mom for her birthday (if dad's time)but only 2 hours w/ dad (if mom's time).

+OW preferring OC in daycare rather than w/ dad.

+OW allowing her family to tell OC that we are going to 'take her away'.

+OW allowing her family to say negative things to OC about 'dad'.
************
************

Does that answer your question thoroughly enough or shall I go on?

Ok, there are so many people to respond to that I probably won't even address all of my thoughts in one post.

Off the top of my head:

KT,
Thank you. YOU answered my question exactly as I was asking it. And I agree with every point on your list being unreasonable. You know I think highly of you, I know how you've struggled, and I completely and totally understand why you and H have made the chocie you have to end C. I'm very sorry that it worked out that way.

Pepper,
I'm sorry you found my statement so amusing. It was in the context that I repeatedly hear "Well, the OW hates me", so I was making the comment that I certainly didn't. And no, I did NOTHING to her.

It's true I have not posted details of my situation, so I can't really blame anyone for jumping to what turns out to be some VERY wrong conclusions about me and my situation.

If you re-read the last page of this thread you will see I did not engage in any negative posting, so I'd appreciate not being accused of something I had no part of. I don't take "backhanded swipes" at people here at all. Just because I bring to light a different side or possibility, that is not by default an insult. At no time have I suggested women here have their heads in the sand. Yes, I made a comment about SOME relationships being re-built on untruths, but no one here can say that never happens.

I was looking for specific answers, and only KT answered that way. A couple people said "OW doesn't want me around the child" which I addressed by saying I believed that to be unreasonable as well.

I never stated a position on whether I thought people should or should not have contact. I only said I would personally rather not. If it happens, I will handle myself adultly and according to the law. I don't have to like it, I only have to be mature about it.

I'm sorry to see this thread spiral downward the way it did, as I enjoyed hearing the viewpoints of many of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Genia:
<strong> Hi,

I was raped by a married man and I never once called his wife to inform her of what her husband did to me. I thought that would be too painful for her and I did not want to put her through the pain. A baby was born out of the rape. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meNtheboyz:
<strong> Trust me Genia, you and I have more in common than you may think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't post here often, as I am not in this situation, but I am about to get married and I like to read all aspects of MB. That being said, while I was reading, I started piecing together some thing. MeNtheboyz, you say you HATE the MM and have no ill feelings towards his wife. And you say others assume you did something you had no part of, and you and Genia have a lot more in common than she thinks...were you raped by a MM? I'm sorry if that is a too personal question, but I am curious. Did you keep the child and consider him an OC? If that is the case, no wonder you don't want the MM involved in your child's life! If that's not the case, I apologize for jumping to conclusions and will continue to just read.

Hi Lynn,

I am with you girl.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have always been a strong beleiver in doing what is best for the kids even when it hurts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you had a problem with this statement. I was referring to if it meant give up contact with a child because that was best for the child so as to alleviate the drama. Then even though it hurt, I would do it. Sorry you took my statement wrong. Lynne I agree with you 100%.
I was actually responding to MeNtheBoyz. What I actually meant was if contact with MM was bad for her child then she should fight for no contact, but if contact is working out then she can be at peace. Every situation is different and each needs to be weighed in it's own light, however the OC is innocent in all this.

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

Pepper,
I'm sorry you found my statement so amusing.

Why be sorry? Your words amused me.... nothing wrong with that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It was in the context that I repeatedly hear "Well, the OW hates me", so I was making the comment that I certainly didn't. And no, I did NOTHING to her.

Well, I am going to take you at your word. You did nothing to the wife of the man you slept with. (somehow this could be true, especially if he did not tell you he was married).

And, I am also going to take any BW at her word when she says, "Well, OW hates me." .... this is probably as true as your statement. Why don't you just accept that the BW's assessment of her own situation is valid?


It's true I have not posted details of my situation, so I can't really blame anyone for jumping to what turns out to be some VERY wrong conclusions about me and my situation.

You're right!

And you might consider not jumping to your own conclusions . If BWs on MB post the OW hates her, I'd say it's probably valid. Wouldn't you?

If you re-read the last page of this thread you will see I did not engage in any negative posting, so I'd appreciate not being accused of something I had no part of.

I am not making accusations. I AM making assumptions because of lack of detail on your part. I am assuming you slept with a married man and had his baby. The circumstances surrounding this are otherwize fuzzy. But whatever the circumstances, the W had no ill will toward you either, until, perhaps, you slept with her husband. That fact might prejudice her against you, depending on the fuzzy circumstances.

I don't take "backhanded swipes" at people here at all. Just because I bring to light a different side or possibility, that is not by default an insult. At no time have I suggested women here have their heads in the sand. Yes, I made a comment about SOME relationships being re-built on untruths, but no one here can say that never happens.

I was looking for specific answers, and only KT answered that way. A couple people said "OW doesn't want me around the child" which I addressed by saying I believed that to be unreasonable as well.

I never stated a position on whether I thought people should or should not have contact. I only said I would personally rather not. If it happens, I will handle myself adultly and according to the law. I don't have to like it, I only have to be mature about it.

Me too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm sorry to see this thread spiral downward the way it did, as I enjoyed hearing the viewpoints of many of you.

That's unfortunate that you see this discussion as a downward spiral. I see this as a mature debate with vastly differing opinions, but not always so different.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I remember the days where I easly could have been the bunny boiler. I remember calling MM W and saying some very nasty things to her. At the same time Xmm was coming over to my house starting fights with my H. One valentines day he brought me a dozen roses and a huge teddy bear, my H was right there. Xmm blew my H a kiss. At another point Xmm patted his wallet and said he had me where he wanted me.

Where is Xmm today, gone. I apologized to Xmm W. I don't think it did any good, it was a very sincere apology. I am ashamed for my past actions. The only thing I can do is move on and try to make a better future for all involved.

When it comes to my children, Xmm was playing mind games with them. Plus trying to use them to get me. At one point my 5 yr old daughter was crying over something her papa (xmm) had said to her. That he is her real daddy, she goes but my daddy is real.

Now I get my pay backs by ahving to deal with H Xow. H called her today to be able to see his sone this weekend. She told him no, he is out of state. Which pissed H off, then she proceeds to tell him that visits will go her way. When he told her no she hung up on him. She is in for a rude awakening when this goes to court.

I am always at work skimming quickly, minimizing quickly, opening back up.. etc. etc.. I can NEVER respond like I want...

So let me just say this much- I AGREE that OW can be very unreasonable.. I also AGREE that BW can be unreasonable....and I also AGREE with OW not wanting BW around her kid... WHY?

Well, since the beginning of time .. WHEN DID ANY WOMAN NATURALLY WANT TO be civil and kind to a person who KNOWINGLY AND WANTANLY sleeps with her husband ....?

and

Since the begining of time... WHEN DOES A WOMAN WHO GETS PREGNANT TO HER MARRIED LOVER (OR ANY LOVER).. want him to return to his MARRIAGE OR TO LEAVE BABY AND HER FOR ANOTHER WOMAN???

Seeds were planted and nature takes course! Geesh......... Why can't these things (AS ADULTS) have been thought of by OP AND MP (AS THE MATURE ADULTS THEY PROFESS TO BE NOW)???

It is HUMAN NATURE for any person, male or female to fight for their lover and their children...

The MM and OW made this INSANE situation for everyone involved and now the married person, other person, betrayed spouse, betrayed family and OC ARE NOT GOING TO "ACT" ACCORDING TO THE BOOK... the families are NOT going to just go about their business, etc.

Everyone is going to act NUTS at time, irrational.... even mean!!!!! OW and MM CHOSE THIS and **** isn't going to be "ALL GOOD" now cause of a baby. And FAILED BIRTH CONTROL has nothing to do with it- you chose sex, and you chose the possibility of children.

Darn straight I would NOT WANT MY BABY NEAR THE WOMAN WHOSE HUSBAND I HAVE BEEN SCREWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOR WOULD I TAKE THE RISK OF PUTTING ANY CHILD IN THAT SITUATION by having left my hands off of a married person! Am I perfect... HECK NO.. but there are certain lines that are just ridiculous to cross.

Seems simple to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

Crazy, I think that is where you differ. You said you where sorry and was truely sorry for what had happened. I everyone is remorsful in their actions which caused the pain in the first place ( All the way around the guilty table) Then people CAN AND DO go on w/ their lives! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And do what is best for the children that did not ask and sometimes feels they should be here! (And thats because the adults most of the time) These babies get older, they become teenagers w/ their own heart breaks and look back on all of this more so than the babies do. The OW in our lives has told me she was sorry, but in the same breathe told me should would take my H whenever she could have him. And she is fine w/ him loving me cause she knows he does. She knows he will not leave me, but still she thinks after my child is up and gone he will be w/ her. Or if I get mad enough to kick him out again, he would come running. Most likely cause he couldn't afford to have a place of his own. Don't know where she get it, I've heard H tell her different. BUT on the other hand we just don't know what they are telling each other when no one is around. So therefore it makes it hard to do contact. If I'm not comfortable in my M and H is not 110% completely commited and she see that why get me involved w/her child? That goes back to where is the remorse for a mistake and where is the honesty? Well your not if you continue to do so much pain in peoples lives. I don't know WHY women as smart, loyal, and intellegent as we all are get off at fighting for a man, who has lied to both? I think it is up to everyone to be honest to each other, even if you don't like that person, or don't agree w/ how they are living. Like I said PEOPLE make mistakes, not god. Its what you do after you've done them that counts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> If you continue on your path, you are no better, if you change and do what is right for all involved then your a better person because of it. But we do not live in a perfect world!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Giovanna123,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Darn straight I would NOT WANT MY BABY NEAR THE WOMAN WHOSE HUSBAND I HAVE BEEN SCREWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOR WOULD I TAKE THE RISK OF PUTTING ANY CHILD IN THAT SITUATION by having left my hands off of a married person! Am I perfect... HECK NO.. but there are certain lines that are just ridiculous to cross.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could be me but your view seems pretty selfish. You don't want your child to have contact with BS. That is your choice. So to be fair then you should not want your child to have contact with MM. MM and BS are one person they are married. They are joined as one. You cannot separate the two.

Genia, of course you are right! I was JUST giving a little scenario of how things just aren't all peachy and adult and perfect after an A.. How unconfortable it can and will be in many respects. And I do believe that if I WERE as irresponsible as OW and H were and did have a baby-- I would feel nervious about the BW who may want to stick it to me anyway she could since I was after all, sleeping with her husband.... I personally would not do this but would not sleep with a married man either..

Really-- now the OW is the one who is vulnerable like the BW is and unsure of what is going on behind her back w/MM and his W. OW is not running the show anymore, we are, and they don't like it.
yadda yadda...

Get it? I am a BS and naturally would agree that if you make a baby w/a married man then you have to share it w/the OTHER HALF of him!! However, my point is also that I just can't imagine getting into this situation that is so hard to deal with for all parties involved!

Hi G123,

Wow you had me going. Now I understand. I have not read a lot of your posts, and do not know your situation. I feel for you as a BW. You have a big heart to put yourself in the OW's shoes. I would not want to be in an OW's shoes with an OC for nothing in the world. But I cannot feel sorry for the OW because they created their own mess.

Oh please don't misquote me.. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the OW.. heck no!!

I just can understand as a mother how scary it must be thinking that BSes are just evil and nasty and would hurt a child cause they hate her or what have you.... But they made choices and now have to deal with those feelings of what if, know what I mean? And mostly its in their head cause they are nervous of someone seeking revenge.

Moral is.. treat others as you would want to be treated... and then people wouldn't even have a reason to want to hurt you back or your child!

Hi G123,

I am so sorry you misunderstood what I meant. The part I added at the end had nothing at all to do with you. The last sentence was a statement I made concerning my feelings. Even though I can try to somewhat understand why OW think the way they do, I will never pity them. I was expressing awe at how you are putting yourself in OW's shoes. You are understanding why they act as they do. A lot of BW have a hard time doing that.