swimming,,,,,,,,,,, you are on the right track. and all of your emotions and feelings of growing tired are par for the course.

as far as the om being involved with the baby. i doubt that he can push very hard in court without the help of you. meaning YOU deny paternity. i would check that out with an attorney.

also if he wants to be involved with the c as far as visitation goes. he may have no rights to that unless your w files for cs. if she does then the flood gates will open for visitation.

during her preg fullhouse thought that it would be fine for om to be interactive. as she grew closer to delivery and the realization that his interaction would be with the baby and HIS family she started to want no part of him. partly because she also realized that her baby would be leaving on a regular basis.

one of my concerns was cs and she filed for that which led to om getting visitation. i had a lot of reasons for asking her to persue cs, age, health, size of my family, making sure all the kids were taken care of in an untimely event to myself, etc.

one thing that was difficult for her was getting onto the same business like attitude page as far as dealing with om. she wanted the "let's all be friends crap". she has gotten to that point for the most part and things are going smooth in that arena.

i don't think it was the om that pushed her into the not so chummy attitude as much as it was om's w.

you don't seem to have the luxury of a married om. so he is free to be a thorn in your backside if he chooses. the only one that can stop him from being a pain in the a$$ is your w. she has to step up and set the record straight that it is YOU and HER. not you and her and her and him.

don't know if this helped. hope today is better then yesterday

pops

swimming ,,,,,,,,,,, i have some thoughts on what tigger has just said but have to go to work so will right later.

SA~

I too think it's ok to give your W an "ultimatum", however, it's all in how you say it. No LBers, etc. You can approach her calmly, lovingly, and in a sensible way, so that it really isn't an ultimatum. It just makes common sense that she can't have it all. If she's still fog-bound, and it sounds as if she is...of course, what makes sense to regular folk, isn't going to make sense to her. You will have to Plan A her, if not started already, and if she still doesn't make a decision for either you or him, you will have to Plan B her. All of this, is assuming you want the M to work, and it seems as if you do.

I'm also in agreement with Pops and Painter...if you don't want anything from the om, I wouldn't contest paternity. Make him do all the leg work, and in most states, the uphill climb to contest paternity himself. You will make his quest much more difficult if you accept baby as your own, and don't contest. He knows about baby, let him check into it if he wants, but I just wouldn't make it easier for him, (unless of course that's what you choose). It's all up to you and your wife. POJA,(policy of joint agreement), will be a very useful thing for you to know when going through the decision processes.

For now, job #1 should be to find out where your W stands regarding the M. If she wants it, she MUST end contact with the om. If she says she wants the M, but also wants contact w/ om, you need to move to the afore mentioned plans. You guys are right, she can't have both, even if baby does prove to be his. It just doesn't work that way.

Oh and pops...interesting comment about a married-xom being a luxury. I've always viewed my single-xom in much the same way. I believe his single-ness, age, and lack of other children proved to be a good thing for us. I think he had more interest in finding some more fun. I suspect, being a thorn in our lives wouldn't have been very much fun, more like a drag, hard work, style cramping, and financially costly too.

I wish you all the best SA!

~ad

autumn,,,,,,,, just to clearify i didn't mean luxury as necesarily positive. what i meant was that with an om who is married you get his w who for the most part will be doing her best to assure her h toes the line. i didn't think about the fact that you mentioned of a single om who is just looking for more fun and doesn't want the bother or hassle of chasing down an oc.

swimming,,,,,,,, i have to agree that you will not be giving your w an ultimatum. you will simply be setting boundaries.

they don't have to be set with threats or screaming and yelling or any other form of lb'er. just simply stating your position and boundaries.

i have said it before to others and i will say it again here to you. IMO the biggest item that sort of slapped fh up side the head and cleared the cob webs out wasn't the 2x4 i had been using for 2 months. it was the fact that i started living again without her. going to friends houses that we had gone to as a couple for over 20 years without her. i stopped whining to her about throwing away our past as i assumed it was gone. i started starting my life over again.

one other thing i wanted to say to and autumn hit on it also. is you and your w should do all you can to make om do all the leg work on his own if he wants to be involved. don't make it easy on him or help him in anyway.

i hope your w also understands that with om being active in the oc's life. and your continued marriage, her baby will be spending time (weekends) away from her. she can plan on saying good bye to her baby on friday night and watching as the om buckles her little darling into the car screaming and crying for mommy the whole time. and she won't be able to anything about it. knowing she won't see her little precious again for 2 days. this is something that i feel most all ww's over look when they say they want om involved.

I'm in a similar situation as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
You alone have to know what is the right thing to do. Some people have already mentioned to you that your W needs to be 100% on your side.
I agree with them completely. Otherwise, she'll always have you in a limbo mode. Who wants to live always wondering if the next time OM comes to pick up the child, if she'll go with him?
Once she is at the point to where she has convinced you that she'll stand by you in the same way you have stood by her thoughout this whole ordeal, then you can go to work on OM.
Make sure he knows that he'll have to fight an expensive uphill legal battle, for the right to pay you 20% of his salary for the next 18 years.
Make sure he knows that YOU will handle ALL child issues and handovers and that he will not have any contact with your W in any form whatsoever.
Make sure he knows that no matter what, even if he still wants to be a part of the child's life, that as soon as OC is old enough to understand, that you will teach OC exactly the type of person OM really is. (I don't know if you really want to do that, but the threat of it I think would be very effective.)
All these things combined, including that he will have no relationship with your W at all, most likely he will disappear.
I hope you get what you want. I hope and pray that your W comes home and sees OM for what he really is.

I did talk to my wife and she says that she is torn because she is carrying his baby. I told her I could get over the baby part it is just the threat this man is to me and my family. She has feelings for him. I told her that she does not need to have contact with him and to call him when the baby is born. Let the courts set up visitation for the child and all you have to do is call if the child is sick or something to that effect. I told her the baby is legally going to have my name and I will make him prove it is his. She says that I am being mean and she wants no part of that and that it is his baby and he has a right to see the child. She says the situation is more complicted than that I guess her feelings make it that way. I said if the kids and I and this family is that important to you the you should do this and we can go on with our lives and our hopes and dreams. She is not going to do IT!!!! I saw both of them out last night. So I told her that is enough and I am filing for divorce . The OM is in the middle of his divorce. He is the BIL of her friend and former friend of mine.So she has all these ties to this guy she will have to cut and I do not think my wife has what it takes to do it. So I am moving on with my life.

SwimmingAlone:

In my first post to you, I pointed out counseling resources that you should be exploiting. Have you started marriage counseling yet---with either the Harley's or Penny???

Right now, you're reacting in completely predictible fashion to your lying, confused, fence-sitting wayward wife. You're trying to reason with an addict when you say:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said if the kids and I and this family is that important to you the you should do this and we can go on with our lives and our hopes and dreams.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Addicts are the best people to reason with---especially in this situation. However, you have many choices. You can choose to act in an appropriate way, in order to protect your children and family as best you can (by working towards reconciliation). Or,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I told her that is enough and I am filing for divorce... So I am moving on with my life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can choose to be yanked around by an addict into a situation that you're not truly ready for.

Please go back to my earlier post, and call the Harley's or Penny for professional help. There are a very specific list of things you need to do at this point---to protect yourself and your children, as well as to give your marriage the best chance to survive. At this point, you're not doing them.

Swimming,
You're not really alone. I am in the same situation as you, except my Wife wants to be with me, and the OM is the one who wants to be involved with the baby. Like you, I don't want to deal with this guy for the rest of my life. The only difference is that I don't think I can accept this baby or having to deal with this guy coming around to see the baby.
I'm about ready to swim too.

wife does not want to try any counseling and I can not make this work without her help. She feels trapped and does not know what to do and I also feel that she feels that she has to go see this guy and talk to him because she feels obligated now. She also still has feelings for him. She does not want to try anything. 16yrs and all hopes and dreams and heart broken children is going to be the end result.She still loves me I know this for sure and she still wants to be married to me but not under these circumstances she says..She wants me to move back in and live as roommates..Ridicules!!!!

swimming alone:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wife does not want to try any counseling and I can not make this work without her help</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With that attitude, I would be divorced right now, living alone. Instead, I've got a snoring OC sleeping on the couch (pulled hamstring this weekend---couldn't carry him to bed last night).

Your wife doesn't need to do jack $hit right now. You do, and you can make this work without her involvement (at least initially).

888-639-1639 for appointments for Harleys.

SYMC for Penny

If you have doubts, here is my story. Now stop wasting time, and make the call.

I think K is trying to tell you something...

Yeah, but no one is listening... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's OK. It took me at least six months of repetitive beatings before MikeC2 (an EN poster) started counseling with the Harleys---and afterwards he abused me for not making him start earlier... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K,

I know this is Marriage Builders; however, there are time when the marriage should just be ended. I know from personal experience that a divorce can be a great Plan B.

I took my former wife back after her first affairs and pregnent with OM baby. Don't get me wrong, I love that daughter and her children. My mistake was trying to keep the family together. We already had two children. My fisrt wife kept on her abusive ways, and finally left us to "find herself."

A few years later, she came back to us wanting to make amends. By that time, we had moved on, and I was not ready to get back on the rollercoster. She was between boyfriends and was looking for a free meal ticket. So I told her no way.

Now, she has been through 4 or 5 marriages and lives alone. I am happly married to a wonderful woman.

I think the situation here is that Swimming Alone should cut the ties with his wife who is making him unhappy. Let her try life with the OM. And let SA move on with his own life free of her. If she comes to her senses, they can start dating again and see where it leads to. Maybe by that time, SA will find someone to be with and tell former wife to sleep on the bed she made for herself.

RAG:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this is Marriage Builders; however, there are time when the marriage should just be ended.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed. This does not appear to be one of them, based on my experience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know from personal experience that a divorce can be a great Plan B.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Divorce and Plan B are two wholly separate entities. Don't confuse the two. When you write something incorrect like this---a new poster may actually believe it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I took my former wife back after her first affairs and pregnent with OM baby. Don't get me wrong, I love that daughter and her children. My mistake was trying to keep the family together. We already had two children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is keeping a family together a mistake???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My fisrt wife kept on her abusive ways, and finally left us to "find herself."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOW---not taking back an abusive spouse until they have demonstrated a track record of changed behavior, AND have committed to a recovery plan that includes counseling---that's completely OK (and very MB-like). Your mistake was probably taking her back under conditions that were unlikely for success (I'm assuming that you weren't doing solution-oriented counseling).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A few years later, she came back to us wanting to make amends. By that time, we had moved on, and I was not ready to get back on the rollercoster. She was between boyfriends and was looking for a free meal ticket. So I told her no way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely OK. It usually takes a 2-3 year period from after you end "Plan A" to transition from Plan B to a point where you're ready for divorce. And it sounds like you made a good decision here.[/quote]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the situation here is that Swimming Alone should cut the ties with his wife who is making him unhappy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If everyone decided to cut ties with people who made them unhappy---it'd be a mess around here. I'd have gotten rid of my wife, the kids, and most of the dogs, cats, and horses... Life isn't about "happy", especially when you have kids. It's about moral responsibilities, doing what's best for the family, doing what's best for the children. There's a lot of components in there, and "happy" is only one small one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let her try life with the OM. And let SA move on with his own life free of her. If she comes to her senses, they can start dating again and see where it leads to. Maybe by that time, SA will find someone to be with and tell former wife to sleep on the bed she made for herself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, the appropriate response for him is exactly what I suggested. He needs to get into counseling with an expert dealing with infidelity. He needs to assess (with his counselor) whether he can Plan A for a bit, or whether he moves to a "no contact" situation (Plan B). That may force his wife to try life with the OM (which will likely end the fantasy of the affair). But he should be in a mode that protects his love for his wife and kids---so that when the affair ends, he's ready and able to attempt reconciliation. Because that's what's going to be best for him and his family---and there's no evidence that I see here of serial adultery or abuse that would indicate that he really needs to cut his losses.

Your advice is to go out, medicate for pain by having a rebound relationship. That's a very good indicator for failed second marriages. It's poor advice.

well this is my wifes second affair in a year. we never fully recoverd from the last one. but she was drinkin again when the second one happened She also had a one night stand when we first were married--alcohol involved.-------I would like to thank every one here for the help and great advice that I was given. This is a great place to come for help. I know some of you will not agree with this and some will. My wife and I have decided to divorce. I am filing for divorce. She will not give me 100 % backing on no contact with the OM. so therefore I do not believe I can live under those circumstances. She feels obligated since it is his child. Also a girlfriend of hers said that my wife would try to pursue a relationship with him if I would allow our children to be around him.She feels that something good has to come out of this since she has just screwed up everthing. Lost alot so she has to be able to gain something. I have tried and tried but she will not put forth any effort and just keeps going over to his house and talking to him. She says she would want to stay married to me but under different circumstances. She does not think it will work and is worried to try because if do not make it then it is one more separation the kids have to go through. We still love each other and still "click" but I can not live in this marriage if she still feels she has to have contact with him because of the child. She does have feelings for him. I feel she is choosing him of me and the 2 children. She talked to the childrens counselor and she told my wife that her unhappiness has nothin to do with me or the marriage but with her.She is not a contented person....We are telling the children saturday with the counselor present that we are divorcing and I am scared and heart broken. My wife will tell the children about the pregnancy and who is the father at a later date. The children know who the man is =they have met him before--before all this happened.. he is a former friend/// This thing has broken up friendships..I was friends with his brother and wife. My wife- I guess thinks something can work or a least hopes--but I tell it will not last because of the way it started and all the destruction it has already caused with broken frienships and a broken home--sometimes she is hard headed..... Thanks every one for your input and support...My plan B was working but she got pregnant Thanks again

I am a very pro marriage kind of guy [being a married one] but where I draw the line is with multiple affairs. From my experience [with my my multiple affair XWW] I learned that it is extremely rare that a spouse that has engaged in more than one affair is someone that will embrace the Marriage Builders principles of rebuilding the marriage. Like my XWW and RAG's xWW, a great many multiple affair spouses are sick people that have very serious and unaddressed pre-marital issues that makes them unqualified to be in a committed relationship like marriage.

I agree she needs to get help but the hard part is that I still love her very much...I am realizing that I do deserve better than what I have been getting and that she is the that is loosing the most through what she has done. I have learned alot from the mistakes I have made and will be a better husband the next time around if that ever happens

I agree she needs to get help but the hard part is that I still love her very much...I am realizing that I do deserve better than what I have been getting and that she is the that is loosing the most through what she has done. I have learned alot from the mistakes I have made and will be a better husband the next time around if that ever happens

Even though this may sound bizarre, my divorce was the pivotal point that helped my XWW hit rock bottom. In talks I've had my X she has repeatedly stated that if I had not divorced her and lost custody of the girls, that she beleives that she would have continued her self destructive path and may not even be alive today. Will this be the case with your WW if you do decide to divorce her? Only God knows, but it often takes hitting rock bottom before a sick person realizes that he/she needs help and seeks it out.

I understand that you still love your WW very much, but SOMETIMES we have to apply tough love to our loved ones when they refuse to get help in resolving their self destructive issues.

I agree.. I feel as though our marriage has to end if there is any hope of us ever getting back together. This situation is just not with a guy I do not know. I do not see my wife getting any better and changing her ways if we stay together. I am a comfort zone to her and her safety blanket. Dependent-- Codependent thing. I know some say keep trying and others say you will know when it is over. I really think it is over but I could actually see us maybe getting back together someday but she will have to some changing as well as myself. I am not a quitter and fought hard for this marriage but I do not see how I go on anymore .