Sunny said
Now we can make her (ow) feel comfortable and make it easy for everyone, and get it started off right or make it harder on everyone and at Now we can make her (ow) feel comfortable and make it easy for everyone, and get it started off right or make it harder on everyone and at the same time make the attorney's rich.

Amen Sunny........My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....Good luck and I'm praying that the visit goes well and God gives you strenght to get through it. I can imagine how strange it may feel.

d

<small>[ November 28, 2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong> WHEN SHE COMES OFFER HER A BIG PIECE OF CHOCOLATE X-LAX CAKE!

(She will have diarreaha for a week!) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL! That's Great Baba2!!!

It was so much fun when we did that to the boys-
in the SIXTH grade.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


Sunny,
I think it's great that you are allowing OW to come into your home. I think it's even BETTER that you've made a room for the baby. It sounds like you're a remarkable woman, and because of that, this child should feel so much love in your home.
I also think the comment about seeing OW's house isn't too far out of line. If you both understand how things are run in each other's homes, the transition form home to home should be less traumatic for the child.
I'd recommend sometime in the future (I know he's just a baby now) that you all get together and work on a "Rules and Discipline" agreement. This is a big area where adults tend to disagree. If you can all mutually agree on a plan of action, it will benefit all. The child will be less confused about appropriate behavior and consequences, and the adults won't have to explain why it's "OK at Mommy's house, but NOT OK at Daddy's house". KWIM?

Regardless, Kudos to you for accepting this child into your home and into your heart.
I wish you the best of luck, I hope it works out well for everyone.

Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:
. I spent a couple of hours a day with his mom talking about their 11 yr affair.

11 years... eleven years....

Why do you think the A lasted so long? Do you live in Utah?

Pep

I didn't read the replies, but I just wanted to say I think you're doing VERY well.

Personally, I think she has EVERY right to expect to see your home, as your H (and you, I suppose) does to see hers.

I wouldn't let me child set FOOT in his father's house without my seeing it first, but of course I'd open my door to let him (them) see my home as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:
. I spent a couple of hours a day with his mom talking about their 11 yr affair.

11 years... eleven years....

Why do you think the A lasted so long? Do you live in Utah?

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep I can see you saying that to me, but she is one of you........a fbw.

Its a long story.
My H and I married in 1988. I had 2 children from a previous marraige.
My H was in the navy. He accepted my children as his own. He had a very close relationship with my daughter.
In 1991 my daughter was diagnosed with leaukemia. she went thru very intense chemo therapy. We almost lost her a couple of times. I thought our marrage was great. I thought everything was fine. I know I spent alot of time at the hospital with my daughter.
My sister was diagnosed with breast cancer. I flu to mo. to be there with her during her masectomy for a week. in Nov of 92 my father was diagnosed with esaphagus cancer, he died a month later. It was very hard to deal with the death of my father. He was my rock. It was so sudden. Still I thought my marraige was fine, we were very close. we did things together. we never fought.
In feb 93 we adopted a baby girl. She was/is such a joy.
In Oct 93 we found out that my daughter (16 now) was pregnant. 3 days later we found out I was pregnant.
My granddaughter was born June 24,1994 1 week later my oldest daughter relapsed with the leaukemia and the search was on for a bone marrow donor. My daughter was born 1 month after my granddaughter.
My duaghter had her transplant in Feb of 1995. she passed away in may of 1995. a month later my sisters breast cancer had spread to her brain.
my grandmother died suddenly in Dec 1995. my sister died in Feb 1996.
we went thru a custody battle to keep custody of my granddaughter who had now become my daughter thru death. We finally won.
My H was in the navy and gone most of the time. I went thru most of this alone.
we found out I was pregnant in 1997. I had a son in Feb 1998. The navy transferred us to another state. in June of 2000 my mother was had a couple of strokes and was diagnosed with parkinsons desease. Me and my kids moved to Ark. so I could take care of her. My H lived in the barracks. My mom died less than a year later.
My H had 2 yrs till retirement and we had bought a home so we decide to keep things the same. He wont come home for 4 or 5 days every 3 or 4 months. In march of 2001 he was home for 10 days. we were supposed to get a large income tax refund. we didnt I called to find out why. They told me back child support.
I confronted him he confessed. He met her right after my daughter was diagnosed. It started out as friends. He says he needed someone to talk to about my daughter it was hard to watch her struggle for her life. after a yr it became physical. Their son was born 1 month before my daughter died. The physical part ended when we were transferred away in 1998. the still had the emotional A going by phone and e-mail until right after my mother passed away.
it is not easy I deal with the pain of the betrayel everyday. Knowing that while my daughter was fighting for her life and losing it. they were making a baby. Sometimes I feel like I was punished. that I lost my daughter and they were blessed with a new child.
I have to accept the past. I cannot change it but by the grace of God I can move on and be the best mother and wife and stepmother that I can.
THe affair was alot more painful than the loss of my daughter.

Pep
Oh. No I do not live in Utah. We did live in California till my H's transfer to Illinios. Then when my mom got ill we moved to Arkansas.

Now that I reread your post it seems you may ve been insinuating something. I hope I am wrong and you are just curious.

I dont know what to think now. the past 15 yrs of my life has been pure Hell. I am finally thru the fire. I feel like we made it. 2 yrs of recovery and I didnt think we would but we did. I am glad. Maybe you think I am stupid for staying. Maybe I am but that was my choice.

Sunny, I think others fear you becoming too lax in boundaries w/xow; you know, just make sure you protect yourself and marriage. Xow is not there to pass judgement!

Beyond that, I sincerely admire your open heart to doing all you can to make visitation work for everyone involved. You've got a big warm heart and I hope your H and even xow fall over themselves in appreciation and don't take you for granted. You're a good stepmom and mom.

Let us know how it goes! Hug and a prayer!

sunnyhunnybunny..........

I can honestly say I have been down this road.
I regret it. Unlike ohters here I would NEVER allow OW to be IN my house again much less stay in my house for any length of time.

I was the one who initiated OW coming to our house. I thought it would be 'nice', a good-faith effort if you will, to let her see how we live, where we live...to 'help her feel more comfortable'.

Showed her OC room that I had made ready for her, I had gone shopping as well, took pride & joy in shopping for my new step-daughter. I enjoyed the change & fun of shopping for a girl now instead of my boys. Dreamed of how it would be when my own daughter would be born soon after.

I was sincere. We had a bar-b-q.
************
************
OW SAID she was appreciative BUT her actions showed otherwise. Soon after, the accusations began. WE were responsible for everything from OC 'sudden' low self esteem to OC having a bad dream!

You know what I have shared sunny & what we have been through.
*********
*********
To me, I see this as a violation of boundaries. Once you allow this....what next? Ow asks to meet the grandparents? I know I have said this before here------it is ridiculous!

Your H is the father-----he is NOT required to be interviewed to see what kind of dad he is! I'm sorry but NO WAY!

Realistically-------a meeting such as this----doesn't prove what kind of people you are anyway. OF COURSE you would be on your best behavior while OW was there & that is not realistic! And yah-----unless you are interviewing her in her home---- even more--NO WAY!!!!
**************
**************
This will be the first hoop of many. The first of MANY over-stepped boundaries to come.
************
************
We took what seemed like forever before we even introduced OC to her bio-grandparents (H parents)---just to 'take things slow' & not 'overwhelm' OC to 'all the changes in her life' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> YAH but OC could start a NEW daycare center w/ tons of strangers but she couldn't even meet her own grandparents who were waiting patiently???? Get real!

AND THEN, OW wanted to meet H parents FIRST! I had to draw the line somewhere! I said heck no on that. I let her into my home but that was enough. She was NOT going to meet the rest of the family-it would be a very cold day you know where before that would happen.
*********
*********
The more I thought about it afterward the more insulted I became. HOW DARE she even QUESTION what kind of mother I am or what kind of father my H is! And if so then I should have every right to interregate her just as much.
***********
***********
If my H is of low character (but good enough to sleep w/) then she would be just as well right?

I offered her that same kind of respect & benefit of the doubt that having a child (& then another w/ someone else who is not around) had changed her & she had matured the years since the A, just as my H had. Obviously if my H was capable of change----she could be too.

Unfortuneately, that benefit of the doubt was not given in return. She had no problem pointing out how this was 'none of my business'...'didn't concern me'....and gave my H pamphlets on what to expect from children's behavior ect! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> As if having 3 of our own (w/ one 5 years older than oc) didn't qualify as EXPERIENCE raising kids!

OW constantly referred to H 'previous' behavior while forgetting that she was involved in that behavior herself. Constantly accusing him of not being 'trustworthy'.......but I was to believe that SHE was?????????

talk about NOT leaving the past in the past!!!!! sheezzzz!!!!
************
************
I can go on & on.

I am NOT saying that it will be like this for YOU two (three, four).

But some of the behavior you have described of your OW is VERY similar to STOW behavior.

So my major concern for you right now is to remind you to set up those BOUNDARIES EARLY so that you can avoid some of these situations/problems that we ran into as well.

I know you are really trying here, I believe sincerely.

I just think this is TOO much out of the way.

H is the father.....he was already 'interviewed' for the 'job' over 9 months ago so there's no need for a 'follow-up'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kwim?

OW chose him for the father so good or bad------the decision has already been made!!!!!

**************
**************

xxx
ooo
kt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS: I have a hard time even reading your posts because your story is starting to sound so similiar to mine it triggers me & brings back all those painful memories that I am finally starting to be able to forget!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> LOL can you tell?lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

Personally, I think she has EVERY right to expect to see your home, as your H (and you, I suppose) does to see hers.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I vehemently disagree....

The entire purpose and goal of posting here is to support and create a BOARD CULTURE that is PRO-MARRIAGE.

We support and advise choices that will be most likely to bring stability and love back into the MARRIAGE HOME. THAT is the #1 priority and purpose of this board.

What a mother of OC thinks her "rights" are is interesting, but I am afraid it is moot to the CULTURE of MARRIAGE BUILDING here of this board.

You are perfectly entitled to post your opinions, however, I think it would be more honest of you to preface your opinions as this:

--->MY OPINION IS NOT INTENDED TO SUPPORT THE MARRIAGE BUT TO SUPPORT THE NEEDS OF OW AND / OC<---

And then post your opinion.... WHY?

Because any newbie BW or BH reading your NON-MARRIAGE BUILDING opinions may feel an increased sense of loss and insecurity.

And that's just wrong. People come here for marriage help.

Be honest ... give your opinions a disclaimer like ---> ..NOT HELPFUL TO MARRIAGE.. <---

because, as you know, your focus is not on the marriage. And I am certain you would not want to do unintended harm to the newbies who might mistake your purpose as MARRIAGE BUILDING advice, when you know this is not true.

Your opinion that the the OW should "inspect the marriage home" is NOT sound MARRIAGE BUILDING advice. It completely contradicts the concepts of the founders of this site, the Harleys.

If you would like to read the concepts, I would ask you to focus your reading on Harley's emphasis on NO CONTACT with the former lover.... in order to PROTECT the MARRIAGE.

Any woman who invites their spouse's former OP into the home, needs to be very, very careful.... this sort of intimacy and contact could rekindle affections between the lovers, and again THREATEN the marriage.

Pep

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:

Oh. No I do not live in Utah. We did live in California till my H's transfer to Illinios. Then when my mom got ill we moved to Arkansas.

Now that I reread your post it seems you may ve been insinuating something. I hope I am wrong and you are just curious.

Your story of bringing OW into your home, making her feel welcome after her 11 year disrespect of your marriage, gardening together, etc, reminded me very much of another BW I used to converse with. (on a different board a few years ago)

She lived on the Utah border, but was not LDS... however, this BW caved in to her WH's desires, and she agreed to allow her WH to move the OW and her 2 kids into the family home with their 2 kids to live a polgamous lifestyle.... after a long secret affair.

My friend, the BW, tried her very best to make the OW and her 2 kids a part of her family. The WH would sleep with both women, on different nights. In other words, they shared a husband.

This arrangement lasted about 3 months. It ended when my friend made a suicide attempt on her life! She was a "people pleaser" extrordinairre ... she sacrificed her values, her desires, and her needs in order to make her WH happy....and it nearly killed her.

So...... reading your story, put chills down my neck. I am very wary when a BW makes excessive ovatures to accomodate the needs of others who have purposely done her harm.... it just makes me really nervous.

2 yrs of recovery and I didnt think we would but we did. I am glad. Maybe you think I am stupid for staying. Maybe I am but that was my choice.

We are 8 years (almost 9) recovered.

I do not think you are stupid for staying.

You said "Maybe I am but that was my choice." ... I am fine with your choice to recover your marriage.

I do confess, I have some difficulty with your choice to befriend the OW to such an extent.

I think that an 11 year affair means this (difficult to write, sorry) ... Your WH and OW love each other deeply. I doubt that has changed. Please guard your home from any further infidelity. It can happen easily enough the "usual" way. But if the OW who was/is very much still loved by the WH is *invited* into your home as a welcome guest....

JUST BE CAREFUL!!!!

You know what the vampire legend says.... "You must invite the Vampire inside" .... and once they are inside.... they do what vampires do!

Best of luck to you. ENJOY your MARRIAGE and your FAMILY

Pep

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hey Sunny!

I agree with a lot of others here. I would not, ever agree to let this woman in your home. She has no right - oc or not- to "inspect" and "approve" your home. Years ago H's ex wanted to stir up this kind of thing about not knowing me, etc...

H said we'll take pictures for you. He and I also told her that just because he is with me now, does not change the fact that he is and always was a good father to her kids-- also, that she was INSANE if she thought he was such a lousy father and human being that he'd let ANYONE hurt thier children!! PA-Leease!

This is just a way for her to try to show that she has the upper hand. I say the mere fact that you have been as decent as you have been already speaks volumes for you.

Simply, no woman who slept with my H will EVER step foot in my house- unless she wants to come ovr and clean it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Originally posted by needtomoveon:

.My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....

NTMO...

I do understand your desire to make certain you child is safe at all times. I would NOT say you have a "right to inspect" BW's home yourself ... I would say you have a "responsibility to protect" your child.

And, this is where the legal system steps in.

To protect the child, to make sure all parties are responsible... a COURT APPOINTED inspection (of all places the OC will be) by a neutral person is necessary.

Too bad about the costs. The attorney costs are all due to the irresponsibility of the adulterors to respect boundaries.

The attorney fees are a small price to pay for knowing your child is safe during the visit.

Cutting corners is where the adulterors messed up in the first place.

It's the "cost of doing business" for the families victimized by affairs.

Pep

She wants to come over to see the babies room and get to know me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She wants to feel comfortable with starting the visits. I know its not my job to make her feel comfortable and not really my place as the BS. BUT, I feel as a mother myself, I can see this reasoning.

This is the job of the courts.

If you by-step the legalities... there will be very murky boundaries (again) in your marriage.

I do not feel this is the way you should approach this.

Yes, OW has a responsibility to be certain her baby is safe.... Go the legal route.

If arranging this OW contact will weaken the boundaries (fences in Christian terms) of your sacred marital union, don't do it.


Everyone knows here that we want and will do contact. Papers are in the works, which she wants to talk about too.

An attorney should be present for these types of discussions.

I am a supporter of C when possible and do not see why it cant be done for these childern that did not ask for what they are having to live.

Yes, choose contact with the OC, by all means. Do not choose to sweep aside your responsibilities to PROTECT your marriage.

BOTH can be loved and protected.... OC and your marriage. Do not sacrifice your marital fences ... This is not a good thing if it could harm your family.

As long as the anger is gone and forgivness is sincere and we adults act as such.

This is not an emotional issue about anger.

This is about making calm rational MARRIAGE BASED decisions that protect everyone .... including YOU!!!

My M is growing stronger, not perfect, never will be, but H is making an effort to do everything we have agreed upon. So what do ya think.

This is so wonderful your M is in early recovery.

This is a very tender time for your M.

It takes (on average) a minimum of 2 years to fully recover.

Protect your home and yourself and your marriage fully.... and you can STILL be a fantastic step mother to OC without weakening your marital fences.

I would URGE you to call Harley's for an appointment before you make this possibly damaging decision to invite a former lover of your H's to dinner.

God Bless.

Pep

<small>[ October 10, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

" H is making an effort to do everything we have agreed upon."

Sunny, I meant to comment on this.

What if being in the same room with OW causes your H discomfort because he will (very likely) still feel an attraction to her???

His own feelings of attraction may be damaging to his recovery!!!

Think this through looking at it from your H's point of view.

He was "addicted" to OW (using MB terms) and now the addiction comes walking into his home invited by his wife ... and stirs up an emotional mess.... inside him.

This sort of contact this early in HIS recovery could be quite damaging to him. He is probably very fragile in his recovery, and being a guy, he may not show it.

Most of the FWH on the other MB forums admit that any contact with OW.... even accidental.... stirs up feelings of attraction .... especially early on in recovery.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Originally posted by needtomoveon:

.My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....

NTMO...

I do understand your desire to make certain you child is safe at all times. I would NOT say you have a "right to inspect" BW's home yourself ... I would say you have a "responsibility to protect" your child.

And, this is where the legal system steps in.

To protect the child, to make sure all parties are responsible... a COURT APPOINTED inspection (of all places the OC will be) by a neutral person is necessary.

Too bad about the costs. The attorney costs are all due to the irresponsibility of the adulterors to respect boundaries.

The attorney fees are a small price to pay for knowing your child is safe during the visit.

Cutting corners is where the adulterors messed up in the first place.

It's the "cost of doing business" for the families victimized by affairs.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually the attorny's fees are a large price to pay for childlish behavior. having the order taken seriously and have him obey it. The money spent on both ends could of been used for our own families. But I will fight for my children till my death. Procting my kids is very important, and I guess I look at this way...if they wanted to see my home I have nothing to hide, they are welcome to see it and inspect anyway they choose. Most xow would cut off there arm before being with the xmm again as well. Just because we had there child does not mean we wish for them to be our husbnad or would carry on another affair with him. Most of us have learned our lesson the hard way. Sunny has to do what is comfortable for her. I'm sure she knows that she has NO idea what tommorow will bring her with all this (who does right KT?) but we all have to do what we feel we have to do. I'm sure just by reading her post in the past that Sunny is smart enough to know her boundries, and limits. She has gone through rough times with the xow. I'm sure her gaurd will be up. She's a smart lady. I'm sure she has some reserved feelings about it also. Who wouldn't in her shoes? I as well would having the bw in my home, but would still do it to avoid any conflict and put minds at ease......we're talking about a child, not a dog or peice of furniture. The courts take time and money. They want to start a relationship with the child now. I'm sure as smart as Sunny is her attorney's have put things in place and she probally discussed this issue with them too. Sunny do what you feel you need to do. Hope for the best, but expect the worse...that way your not disapointed. I wish you luck in it, and hope that your dd gets to spend some quailty time with her new brother.

I have not read the whole thread. But I think that working a visitation arrangement can only be good for all the kids involved. I have invited Om and his wife in to my home, and in time she has invited me to their home. We share special holidays with daughter such as birthdays and school events and plan such parties together.
We are not friends, we are not buddies, and we do not discuss any thing other than my child.
As a mother in any situation if you did not share a child from the beginning, doing so now, will come with many questions and fears. This is natural and frightening for all parties involved. The first day Om took my daughter for a few hours with his wife, D cried and cried, then I cried and then his wife cried. It was difficult and painful at best.
They understood and have worked hard to ease my fears. I have been in her room at their house; I have seen pictures of it. In fact, there is a picture of my family in her room.

While this isn't a direct conversation due to marriage building it is a problem faced by couples that have a child in this situation and can be very beneficial to learn all the ways this works out. A marriage in this crisis can heal and often does, with and without contact. But those who have contact should always make sure they are doing so for the right reasons and doing what is best in the interest of all children.

Never assume, that just because you make a mother feel safe about her child, it is a direct line to her sleeping with her husband. If a husband is going to cheat he is going to do it no matter what you do in this situation.

My visitation arrangement works beautifully with Om and his wife, I do not have the desire to jump into bed with him. I have a strong desire to make my daughters life filled with JOY, LOVE and PEACE.
Lets just say thru trial and error we have worked this out and it is working.
Good for you for trying.

By the way, This is a marriage building concept if both arties agree, it also gets rid of some of the drama and stress. Better for a marriage and for your children.

Mom of Five,

Excellent response! You said just the types of things I was thinking. Thanks!

BTW, I don't know about other states, but as my child's primamry legal and custodial parent, I DO have a LEGAL right to see thier home (not that I want to...)At least I know that's true where I am....

I am trying to remember its been so long but the OW wanted dad to have supervised visitation, mom could not be present, and she wanted to know where OC would be at all times, and wanted to see OC's room. The judge told OW an address and phone # was all she was going to get. The court saw him as a fit parent. He got unsupervised visitation with a NEWBORN and the judge saw no problem with mom being there. In the end the OW made herself look bad.