BTW: I also wanted to add for the record:

I know exactly who my H WAS & now IS.

I realized exactly who I was & now AM.

I didn't know who OW was & didn't care.

Now I know who she is & my opinion of her has only been shaped by her actions since I have met her, not her actions before that time.

I have tried to deal w/ this situation from the perspective of where we are NOW & that is where I have created my opinion of all parties involved from.

My H never said anything negative about OW. He hardly knew her @ all & certainly not enough to comment. He did not influence my opinion of OW. He also formed his opinion that he has of her now based on her actions these past 2 years.
**********
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There are some very distinct patterns of behavior that are quite predictable. Call it human nature if you will because most of us will fall into those patterns quite naturally.

That is why it is called a stereo-type.

NTMO If they don't want you mailing to their home, what is the big deal? They can get you on harrassment if you continue to mail to their home. Why would you be sending them anything? Why can't this go through the attorneys? As long as you have one and they have one, let them do their jobs. I think you could be charged for this. PO Box or not, you need to go through legal channels. Their laywer is telling them to ignore any correspondence from you. He is probably telling them they can toss it in the trash. If they don't want you contacting them at home, that is their wishes. They can get that set up legally too.

As for who is playing games. I believe you were playing games. THEY do not want to coorespond with you. That is not game playing. That is not wanting to correspond with you. Pretty plain to me.

As for the insurance, they can do that too. They do not have to have his name on anything if they so choose. You can't force them to. He does not have to put the oc on his work policy if he chooses not to. They may be investigating ways to get the policy without them having to have anything to do with it. We did that too. Oc is on work policy through our business, but he is not listed as a child, but just another name on the policy. What difference does it make as long as oc has proper coverage? Or are you trying to put the screws to him? If you were not playing games, why are you so concerned about him taking responsiblity? You already saddled him with an unwanted child, forcing him to pay for 18 years. Haven't you gotten your pound of flesh already? You have stated that you didn't think you could have another child, and that is why you chose to keep her, never thinking what that choice would do to others.

Now you say this is making them look bad? That is in YOUR eyes. Trust me, you and he already look bad in the eyes of the judge. She can do whatever she wants to protect her familys finances, as long as it is legal. The law will protect them too. We made it CLEAR that the ow was not to call or write for anything. NOTHING. And she did. She was charged with harrassment. The law will see to it that you get child support and insurance, but that same court will also see to it that you leave them alone if that is what they want. They have rights too.

I don't think you are remotely seeing this as it really is. This is a financial settlement. PERIOD. The judge will look at what the ATTORNEYS say and do. Your harrassment of them, and not doing what they wish to do, will be seen as petty too. The whole thing is sordid anyway, so don't think you are going to look like Donna Reed in front of that judge. Our ow thought that she, as the oc mother, would be treated like some innocent woman. Not the case. So don't think you are going to come out of this smelling like a rose before the bench either. You (and he) are just another, standard issue, illicit affair, producing a child that the courts are going to have to be bothered with for the next 18 years. You BOTH will be looked upon in less then stellar eyes. He for evading, and you for being the ow with an oc. They will see right through your "I didn't think I could get pregnant" excuse. That is one they have heard a million times.

You make a judgement on the bw, from your ow standpoint. I can imagine what her descripiton of you, waaaaaaaaaaay before the emr would be. I have a feeling she would not say decent things about you either. Stabbing at her is rather two faced, considering how you are all up about the innoncent oc, forgetting that YOUR own actions created this mess for everyone. She too is a victim. Age doesn't discriminate.


So, you think she is being unreasonable? I don't. I think they may be working things out with their attorney. And if you think that attorney is only listening to her, you are wrong. That is not how it works at all. THEY are working with the attorney. She can't make decisions on this, he has too. THEY are doing this together.

I think your best plan of action is to go through the laywers PERIOD. That is what you pay them for. You could find yourself in hot water by sending them anything at all. You are best to let your attorney handle it all.

We paid thousands in fees, some seeming rather silly. The end result was peace. We knew where we stood at all times. By having things done legally we were never left open for any surprises. Neither was she. It works out the best for everyone, BW, MM, BC, OW and OC if all is done legally.

If you were suing me for a car accident, or whatever, you would not be allowed to contact me at all, once there were laywers involved. This is no different.

LynnG, I stopped at the 3 or 4 line. If you can't read something right, don't read it at all. First of all.........I don't care where I send things. IT WAS A PHONY ADDRESS!!!! Why on earth would I send anything else but medical receipts? Oh I forgot....I'm the ow and it is the way all ow are? It was medical receipts LYNNG!!!!!!!!! THERE CHOICE NOT TO GO THROUGH THE ATTORNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as the insurance papers YOUR WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! If they wanted everything sent through the attorney's it would of been at THERE COST. The judges here like for parents to get along for the the kids sake, they don't care about the cirucmstances. It was ordered BY A JUDGE THAT HE PROVIDE 100% MEDICAL COVERAGE FOR HER. Let me also add that he has a pitbull attorney. One of the best in this city and respected. So please you have no idea about my case, and you did not even read it correctly, so don't tell me what is going on with my life and my child that you feel is only best for my child's father and his wife. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!
Edited to add: I did finish reading your post..just could not help myself. I'm not your OW and your not my BW........you have no clue what your talking about. Your case was so long ago and just because your ow was to scared to fight you on things, does not mean you were completely right. As far as him not talking....he's not.....Your not always the smartest cookie in the Jar Lynn. As well, I don't harrase them. I have done EVERYTHING through my attorney. I've done everything legal. It has not been me who has had contempt charges brought up on me. It has not been me warned by the judge, it has not been me not doing anything that the judge has asked. You think it's a good thing to lie to the judge about a mailing address that you want the medical receipts to go to? Do you think it's a good thing that you've been ordered to provide medical coverage on your child and not do it because you don't want to put a signiture on the application? I had no problem putting her on a seperate policy. They asked me to get quotes. I DID IT. JUDGE TOLD THEM TO DO IT, BUT I DID IT!!!!!!!! Sent them all the quotes (through the attorney) sent them the application as per the judge's order and because SHE does not want he's name near something that HE HELPED CREATE it's good that they are doing this? LYNNG?????? Where the heck is your thinking coming from? Don't put me somewhere I'm not!!!! I just want this over with and go on!!!! It has NOT been me to keep this going. SO please think before you jump to a conclusion.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

LynnG, I just re-read my post that you responded too. How on earth did you get all the answers you got from what I wrote? How are earth can you say I should NOT be sending medical receipts to them when the judge ordered it? How can you say I harrased them? I don't call them, I don't send them anything other than medical receipts. I don't stalk them. I work less than 2 miles away from them and am in the same business as them. I avoid him/her at all cost. If I have buisness with the company he is associated with directly I have someone else on my team do the leg work. THey were ordered to pay all back medical right then and there in full.......I agreed to payments. I knew they could afford to pay it all, but like the ole saying goes "pick your battles carefully". Your entire post to me was way out of line. You took every word I said and twisted it to make me out as some woman out to get them and harrase them. NOT. I don't play games. I don't involve myself in people that do. It is what it is. Just because you think you've been there and done things does not mean you are looking into every situation and it's the same. Just because you were able to do certain things with your case does not mean that everyone that tries it is going to get it no matter how good of an attorney they have. Times have changed since your oc was born. It's been almost 18 years. What I'm about to say to you, I really don't mean as an insult, but it sounds like your ow was scared to death of you. Who in there right mind these days will agree to some of the things that you've been able to get. In fact his (xmm)attorney in court ask for no contact between him and I and the judge said NO. He said that we were in the long haul together and everyone has made there choices and have to live with those and try and get along. No one has harrased or anything anyone so it will NOT be in the order. He also explained that if he (xmm) insisted that receipts go through the attorney's it's all at his cost. That little comment you made about he does not have to sign the application for insurance. OH YEAH he does. He does not want her on there policy which is fine by me. I'm not upset over it all. The insurance we picked out is a better policy than theres. He is financally responsible for it and order by the judge to do it. I would say that directly disobeing the judge is not a good thing Lynn, would you not say the same? As far as him not wanting a child that he has to support for the next 18 years....well that was both our faults. Not just mine. No matter what I say to you, or even if I had written proof of what I say your still going to put it back on me as I'm the ow ruining the xmm life with his family. It's not black and white. As mother's don't we ALL put our families first? But it's wrong for me to do it because xmm did not want this child. He's doing what he can live with and I'm doing what I can live with. That does not mean I will allow him or anyone else walk all over my kids. I sincerly know the mistakes I made and am not proud of my actions. I do however have a child that is a product of this whole thing and I had to do what I could live with as he did too! I just wish that when you speak, you would read what is really writen before you attack. It's not always deserved.

You, in the original message I replied to, were judging his wife, as you have many times. I was clearly stating what I thought.

I clearly realize that you, as a mother love and adore all of your children, as we all do. HOWEVER, you seem to blame his wife for everything and I find that disingenous. SHE can't be handling this, it has to be him. She may be with him and her wishes are being heard and respected, but ultimately it is him who is giving the nod to the laywer.

As for our court case, If the ow was so afraid of us, I doubt she would have played her manipulative games. As a matter of fact, our Laywers handled 99.999% of her. In court, it was clearly spelled out, by our attorneys that everything was to go through them. Every legal beating she took was cause of her own actions. She harrassed inlaws by sending them un-wanted photos, had the gall to try to speak to our children, would drive by our house, etc. She would call our house when she was had a retraining order against her. Her troubles were self created. The punishement and time spent behind bars were all of her own chosing, as she was aware of that there would be consequences for her actions. She wasn't afraid, she was just a slow learner.

As for you. One thing that I always remember is how you "thought" you couldn't get pregnant. When surprise surprise, look what happened. I feel sorry for his wife. The pain and hell she has been through and you give her not one iota of care, but instead complain against her. Then in the next breath talk about the needs of the oc. As if the oc were all that mattered. Sure, the oc matters to YOU. As she should. But to THEM it is HER pain and HER feelings that matter. If they have a laywer and he knows there isn't a policy in place, there is a reason. But you jump right away and blame HER. That is where I get quite angry. SHE did nothing to you at all. YOU are the one who was party to her hurt. YOU are the one who created this mess (and him) but she had nothing to do with it.

Lynn, as I said YOU DON'T know it all. I have always stated that all actions regardless of who does them are his fault. After all he is the one who is an adult and has choices. As far as the attorney goes.........I heard his attorney tell my attorney over the phone that he has only spoken to xmm once the rest of the coversations have been with her. In fact when we went to court he never came........SHE DID. The Judge quickly asked her leave and made it a closed session. Your right she has never really ever done anything to me, but I've seen with my own eyes (not through xmm) what she has done to people and it would even be beneath you Lynn. You see this is about money, not custody so she can talk for him. If we were dealing with custody then she would not be able too. You group everyone together Lynn. It's wrong. You think ALL ow stalk and harrase and everything else. I've had to have my office screen all my calls now because xmm calls me wanting to talk and I won't talk to him. I've had to changed my phone numbers. So don't assume when something is said that you have all the answers. As far as it always sticking in your head that I thought I could not have any kids? Your point? For the record it was not a thought.......it was medical and proven. Also, I'm no spring chicken Lynn. I had my twins late in life and 5.5 years later the baby came. NOT on purpose as you want to group it all together. When you have someone willing to work things out friendly and fair...you don't rock the boat. You don't pull things on people that are unnecessary and hurtful to even your own family. You don't be stupid. As far as the medical insurance goes...your right there is a reason it's not in place yet.........there stupid and that has been taken care of too. When you tell everyone here to get a attorney have you ever heard me ONCE tell you what a bad idea that was? Thank God for my attorney. Poor xmm has to HELP support the child that he brought into the world. POOR POOR MAN. His wife choose to stay in the relationship after she found out. She has to accept what the judge says just as he does. Just as I have had things to accept. Geez Lynn, can't you step out of the box for one moment and stop judging everyone as you see fit to your liking? Then make excuses for any and every xmm/bw bad actions and conding it, whereas you see an ow protecting or saying hey this is what happen and it's bad and you lash out at it. Bad is Bad....Good is Good. No matter what hat you wear. You see not all ow stalk, or harrase or send pictures to family memebers or call the xmm. You need to step back once in awhile and stop judging so much and being so mean it's not called for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi Mary

You sound like intelligent woman. I disagree... I have hard time... accepting the fact that men don't have more rights... they should be getting more rights..then just "NO CONTACT" And thats all he's allowed to decide on. I think that both a woman and man both go in this knowing the risk...and when the unthinkable happens...guess what... they both don't get to decide what happens to the child...only the woman. She gets all the choices...and the man gets his hands tied behind his back... and he has no place to go. ( and you expect him to be reasonable? I know I wouldn't... just stand in his shoes) You admittly said here that you made a mistake... but you got to choose the outcome...he didn't...he had to go by what you wanted. No matter if he came to you at the time and said he simply..screwed up..but can't possibly can't handle it finacially or emotionally...he avoided it..knowing that his voice doesn't matter.

I think we all make mistakes... but I have a different view... I look who is ALL that is involved... I feel that woman should not always KEEP a child just for the sake of having a child. Not if its going to cause the hardship & devastation on both families. This is where I am big fan of adoptions. Better for the child...better for the other innocent victims in this senario.

We are not entitled you know. We hold an awesome power..we create life... I think when it comes to a baby... we hold the bag on this one. But I don't think that we have the right to keep a child if its going to hurt our own families..and others...both financially / emotionally. You see it here all the time on this forum...you hear the heartaches from the devastated spouses...the children...the OC ( defending his mother / hating the father)

I will always continue in my efforts to fight for more equal rights to men... You see it too many times... where the women get the breaks in the courts..over the men. Fathers are not valued like they should be, their voices not heard.. look at the laws in this country. They are outrages... more than not the man is sack with these outrages amounts of CS.

I feel that just b/c a man makes a mistakes... he or his family should be held accountable for the next 18+ years....especially if the man has expressed that he didn't want more. Now I know what you are going to say..then he shouldn't have screwed around. And you are right. But she should not have taken that risk either.

I hope this is making sense?

wiz

<small>[ October 22, 2004, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: wizard ]</small>

Wiz, I understand what your saying to the fact that depending on things that happen to us in our lives is what we stand for etc. A example. When I was going through infertilty treatments I had(have) medical problems. It was explained. I could not believe that insurance companies did not cover the treatment or the drugs to get pregnant. I joined a group and started rallying to have it covered etc. It cost my husband and I over 250 thousand dollars to have my twins and we were one of the lucky ones. We were finally able to have a not just one baby but two. On top of my female problems I also had reproduction problem due to my mom taking DES while she was pregnant with me for morning sickness which caused miscarriages which I had plenty of those too. 8 of them. All with the treatment and on meds to help it while pregnant. Hey insurance will cover for a man to have penial implant if they have diabetites, but with a woman who have fertitlty problems and are known problems they won't pay? So to that respect I see what your talking about. You are on the other side of the fence with this and your looking at it with what YOUR husband and the OW did to your family and what there actions are costing YOU (not just xmm) for 18 years. If I was in your shoes BEFORE this happened to me, no before I even went through all the infertlity I might feel the same way. But like I said things happen to us in life that make us feel strong about the way we feel about things. I never once considered abortion, but I did consder adoption and went as far as to go and talk to a counsler at an adoption agency. Then I went and talked to my minister and laid it all out to him about what I had done and what had happened. Xmm and I both knew my history and we were both just waiting for me to loose her. Just as I was going into my 2nd trimester I got into a car accident......and thought for sure that would do it and she survived everything. I had put it in God's hands (and for all of you who feel I don't have a right to talk about God, I'm sorry but I did) Then I was diagonised with a 2 vessell cord and the list goes on......but she was determined to be here and I knew I had to accept this. Xmm told me when I told him I was pregnant that he would not be emotinoaly involved but he would take care of her financially. From the beginning he said that over and over. I accepted that too. It was not until he finally told his wife that he tried to renig on that. And as much as I hate to admit this now........we had unprotected sex for 13 months. He knew it was unprotected as well. He knew my history. I knew this man for 13 years. He saw what we went through. We had talked about if I were to ever get pregnant what I'd do. I told him the truth. I never lied about what I'd do. So I feel he is half responsible for our child. Wiz do you see where I'm coming from? This is something that most of us BW/OW will never agree about as we are on different ends of the fence. I will also agree that in SOME states yes the man gets the raw end of the stick. In my state Men are equal. There is a cap on cs and a cost of living share. It's very fair. I know his wife has every right to hate me. I know she has every right to be bitter. I also know she owes me nothing. Her husband does owe our daughter something though. Let's face it WE all have had to make choices and live by them. I don't distrupt there lives at all. Well I guess monthly I do but again, she made the decision to stay with him. I did apoligize to her when she called me up. I understand that she did not accept it. There is really nothing more that I can do other than to leave the face of the earth and that is not going to happen. What started this whole thing was some things that Lynn took out of context. She thinks I'm blaming his wife for things that she had nothing to do with and that is not so. What I hate is being lumped into one catagory. You can forgive your husbands but because we choose to keep our child and your husband is paying cs we are evil vile people. I'll admit I was off track for about 13 months, but I quickly got back on track and realized what I had done with xmm and could not believe I was ever in it. I am very remorseful about the affair. My feelings for his wife have NOTHING to do with xmm and everything to do with how she is as a person. AND NO, it does not make it right what I did for who I feel she is. I'll also admit that WE both used that as a HUGE excuse for doing what we were doing. I'm being very honest with you wizard and know I'll be chastise for it, but I'd rather be honest than blow smoke up your butt. I honestly hope that they can rebuild there marriage and get past this.

Goodmorning Mary

I just took a glimpse at your post. I am just on my way out the door... to work.

I just caught the $250,000 part of your post ( WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).. I didn't get the chance to read it all...I like to write more to you....unfortunately no time right now.

Thanks for posting back... thank heavans its friday!! I work less today work til 3..yippy! Its been brutal..at work. Love the job though. I go and find peace there... most of my kids are teenagers... at times it can be war zone around here. Fighting over clothes... over french fries..you name it!

Talk later!
wiz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> Goodmorning Mary


Thanks for posting back... thank heavans its friday!! I work less today work til 3..yippy! Its been brutal..at work. Love the job though. I go and find peace there... most of my kids are teenagers... at times it can be war zone around here. Fighting over clothes... over french fries..you name it!


Talk later!
wiz </strong>[/QUOTE\

Geez mine are only 6 and fighting over clothes and french fries you name it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ October 22, 2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

Hi Mary Sorry it took so long to get back. I can't believe it..I slept til 9am...

Anyways... I understand your position. I am far from being an angel by any stretch of the imagination. We all make mistakes.. I know I have made plenty in my life time.

I am very strong advocate of children. I know that you have struggled with this issue for long time.. I saw your very first post you know. I respect your opinion b/c your not trying to eliminate your role in this. Mary I realize you are trying to make the situation as fair as you possibly can. There are some things you can't even control. I know the laws in this country when it comes to the welfare of children. You have to do what you have to do..if you don't the government will step in and do that for you. Which I agree on that. A child must be supported. I am just more on making the playing feild more even for both involved.

As far as his wife is concern, its just going to take time. Try if you can not make it about them... the smartest thing you have done is to look after your little girl. ( I can almost see it now.. I bet those two little twin boys must be so proud of her) The best advice I would give anybody under this circumstance is document.. and have absolutely everything in writting. I know you been having difficult time getting them reciepts... Maybe just hang on to it..until they request it? Have you tried suggesting to have a third party that is willing to handle reciepts and messages...
Once everything is set up legally, you don't have to have another thing to do with them.

I am sorry Mary, I am not sure..but are you still married to the father of the twins...?

If I am asking too many personal questions ... I am sorry..just curious....

If you ever want to talk more. Here's my email. enordlee@hotmail.com.

wiz

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
You can forgive your husbands but because we choose to keep our child and your husband is paying cs we are evil vile people. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NTMO ... You kept this miracle child of yours and you love her and your other children... because that's who you are.

But really, why are you on Marriage Builders?

What do you personally GAIN from a site dedicated to saving marriage ---> when your issues are not related to marriage building?

Hypothetical:

If I post to a site dedicated to helping arthritis pain, but I do not have arthritis, I have migraine headaches .... what would I gain by posting to arthritis sufferers all about my headache problems?

Would I try and convince them that my migraine pain is just as important as their arthritis pain?

What do you care what MBer's think of you? What possible difference could MBer opinions of your character make in the quality of your life?

Are you here because you seek respect from strangers (women) who do not carry the stigma of "OW"? I suspect that is (in part) the reason you return to MB ... to present your issues that are not related to marriage building so you get some validation ---> despite making a major error in life, you are still a decent human being.

Validate this for yourself. It's not the affair that defines you, it is what you do with the lessons you learned and how you conduct the rest of your life that matters.

Re-read the quote I began this thread with ... and ask yourself.... "So what does this have to do with making MY life better today?"

Am I a little bit correct?

I bring this up because conversations like this distract from marriage building for those married women here (WW or BW) who really REALLY need to concentrate their energies on Marriage Building... not on what OW or , in your case, FOW think about the betrayed marriage situation. It does NOT help the betrayed marriage to become bogged down into this sort of discussion. I am asking you to stop. Please.

Pep

Pep, this is probally one of the nicest post you have post to me. This was between LynnG and myself. I have done nothing wrong. It was Lynn I was talking to. Most of my post have to do with ow/oc/bw/mm. I don't put my 2 cents in the MB principles as my marriage did not last. I'm sure you can agree that NOT every thread here is soley on the MB principles. In fact most are not in this area. I have never once ever said don't do plan A, don't do plan B, or even suggested something different. Really there is only 3 people out of everyone that I have run ins with. I don't need to name names. You know what Pep, if you would post to me more like you posted to me on this, you and I would get along better too. People come on both the two other sites that I go on and I don't do to them what you and a few others have done to me here. I can co-habitate with others. What LynnG did was uncalled for towards me. She took every word I said and twisted it to something she wanted to think I said. I don't do that to people. Not even to you which you've been known to do that too. There are other xow who come on here as well who feel the same as I do, but because I speak freely (as I should and defend myself) you pick on me? If someone came and twisted everyword you said and you KNEW it was wrong and was trying to make you LOOK like someone other than you were, you would (as I've seen you do with me) speak up. As for going on a site as you spoke about....I have been known to go on other sites that maynot be me, but I'm interested in for whatever reason......alztimers..for instance...my father has it. I don't, but my father does. No I'm not in my married home anymore (and long before my mistakes) but I am in some associated with this subject. Majorly. The only person I really don't have respect for is the one person who attacks me all the time needlessly. We've had bw come onto our site and blast the ow and we belived them and told them not to put up with it. To my knowing there has only been a couple that were asked to leave and it was not me who asked them to leave. I've never even suggested to someone trolling or just venting over there that they leave. I'm sorry you don't agree with me being a part of the message board and you feel it all has to do with people just rebuilding there marriage and no other subjects are discussed. My mistake I guess, I can't read either.

double

<small>[ October 23, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

You know what Pep, if you would post to me more like you posted to me on this, you and I would get along better too.

My purpose is not to get along with you as a person. That is a possible bonus of communicating with you, but not my purpose. My purpose is to help others with their marriages. Why can't that be your purpose too?

People come on both the two other sites that I go on and I don't do to them what you and a few others have done to me here.

What goes on at other boards has nothing to do with what I am saying to you. The subject between you and I right now is THIS board, and the subject at hand.Helping people with damaged marriages.

I can co-habitate with others. What LynnG did was uncalled for towards me.

I am not Lynn... so stick to the subject and conversation you and I are having, please.

There are other xow who come on here as well who feel the same as I do, but because I speak freely (as I should and defend myself) you pick on me?

I am not picking on you. I am asking you to contribute to marriage building.

No I'm not in my married home anymore (and long before my mistakes) but I am in some associated with this subject. Majorly.

Please explain. I don't understand what you mean.

I'm sorry you don't agree with me being a part of the message board and you feel it all has to do with people just rebuilding there marriage and no other subjects are discussed. My mistake I guess, I can't read either.

I would like your purpose for posting here to change. I would like your purpose to change into a helping attitude rather than adversarial.

I would prefer you left all other board issues on the other board.

Pep

Hi Wizard.......9 am?????? Man you are lucky <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I have twin girls...and yes they are very proud of there sister. One of the twins tries very hard to be her "mommy". She has no problem changing even the dirty diapers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> before I get to her. She's a light sleeper and if she hears us up at night (which is not often) she is right there wanting to help.
You can ask me anything you want, I don't have a problem with that.
Yes I have already looked into a 3rd party (well they did first there attorney and they did not want to pay our attorney's to handle it) and I talked to my CPA about it, but I don't have the money for him to handle it. We do document everything. My attorney commented the other about how thick my file was with copies of all the letters xmm's wife has sent and notes on all the stuff that they were to do and have not yet. So everything is documented. The thing is I don't want there life or what they have etc., I just want what is right and fair. I actually offered him a deal before we went to court that was below guide lines just to avoid major attorney fees (which my attorney was NOT HAPPY about)that I knew would kick both our butts, but it was disgarded and now they have to deal with what the court has ordered. I say they, but mean him....afterall it was him who was involved in this with me. In my state the laws are really very fair on cs and there is a cap here. The highest someone can get for one child is 750.00 per month and there income has to be very high.
Has far as still being married to the twins dad, yes I still am. We have been seperated for 3 years. There is no chance of getting back together, but on a good note, we do get along very well now and can stand to be around each other for more than an hour. He's a good man. He just could not figure out what team work was, or what being married was all about. He was raised very different than I, and we were in counsling more than not and he just was not willing to figure it out. He has a relationship with the kids but it could be more. They worship the ground he walks on as they should. He has seen the light on a few things regarding the kids and has been better about them. My parents have been together for 55 years and his divorced when he was 12, and it was a very hostile while he was growing up. Most of his problems stem from that and he just won't (can't?) get past the difference. He was really upset over my pregnancy at first (even though we had been split up a couple of years). Some I think was pride as we had tried so long and spent so much money into haveing the twins. His first words out of his mouth was "and we tried so long and so hard?" He too was in shock. Those were not the words I expected out of his mouth first. After he got over the shock of it though he was real trooper. He put the baby on his insurance until I got things done with xmm, and he even helped out with some of her expenses. He even babysat twice. The girls when they talk to him at home will put the phone on speaker phone and tell the baby to say hi to daddy. Thankfully he thinks it's funny and understands. The girls knows the baby has a different dad but I don't say that she is there half sister. To them she is there sister period. And your right it takes time. It just needs to be put in stone and let it be known that this is just the way it is. You know if I'm asked a question I don't have any problems ansering them. I may not give an answer that is popular, or liked, but I will be honest. Thanks for asking Wizard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep, your right this is not about Lynn but you went off my post to Lynn which I needed to bring that up to you.

As far as my comment to you. What I meant was I have an oc. I deal with theses same issues. If you look at most of the threads on this board you don't see every post relating to the MB principles unless it stating are you in Plan A or Plan b. Or something to do with that. I as I explained to you do not discourage the MB prinicibles in anyway. As far as my marriage goes read my response to Wizard and that will explain somewhat about my marriage. It does not mean I did not try in my marriage before you say that...I gave it my all. My all to the best of what it could be with what I had to work with. As far as my contrubrition to helping to heal marriages, I don't discourage that at all. I don't bash any mm except my own and it's venting and by personal experieces as well as his wife. I have never blamed his wife for our relationship as has been suggested on here. I have encourage many woman here and have given support to woman on here. I have had a lot of pity for a lot of woman going through things on here as well. It's just not seen by you. I do appricate though that you were kinder to me and less sarcastic towards me on your post. You pep (and this is not a bad thing) use the MB principles more so than anyone. Even when someone maybe talking coffee (exterme example). I notice that when someone is on a thread and it's venting or discussions or debates (healthy ones, not nasty ones) and everyone is getting along giving there own opinions you pop in and grind the ow and use the MB principles to cast her. Not one soul in that thread was there, but you brought it in and cast out the ow for posting her thoughts and no one was even fighting. Not fair Pep.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I deal with theses same issues. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you don't. The issue on this forum is trying to rebuild your marriage while dealing with the secondary issue of an OC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> most of the threads on this board you don't see every post relating to the MB principles unless it stating are you in Plan A or Plan b. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are many more MB principles than Plan A or Plan B. Because a post does not specifically mention the name of the policy or concept does not mean one is not being suggested or used. Do you even know what the 10 Basic MB Concepts are? Many of the threads deal with POJA, RH, En's, LB's, giver & taker,,etc without specially citing them by name.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It does not mean I did not try in my marriage before you say that...I gave it my all </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Separated is NOT divorced. Having an affair with a MM while "separated" and having an OC does NOT sound as though you "gave it your all."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have encourage many woman here and have given support to woman on here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your little battles here with some of the members fars outweighs any support offered. They are distracting from the purpose of this site....
rebuilding our marriages!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nerlycrzy:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I deal with theses same issues. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you don't. The issue on this forum is trying to rebuild your marriage while dealing with the secondary issue of an OC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> most of the threads on this board you don't see every post relating to the MB principles unless it stating are you in Plan A or Plan b. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are many more MB principles than Plan A or Plan B. Because a post does not specifically mention the name of the policy or concept does not mean one is not being suggested or used. Do you even know what the 10 Basic MB Concepts are? Many of the threads deal with POJA, RH, En's, LB's, giver & taker,,etc without specially citing them by name.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It does not mean I did not try in my marriage before you say that...I gave it my all </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Separated is NOT divorced. Having an affair with a MM while "separated" and having an OC does NOT sound as though you "gave it your all."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have encourage many woman here and have given support to woman on here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your little battles here with some of the members fars outweighs any support offered. They are distracting from the purpose of this site....
rebuilding our marriages! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am very sorry I have insulted you in some way by being here. As far as my husband goes you don't know what all happened in my marriage and YOU don't know why we have not divorced yet. I planed A my husband for over 8 years and then Planed B him when I asked him to leave. My affair had nothing to do with my marriage. NOTHING. I never cheated on my husband or thought about it. I loved my husband with all my heart and it broke my heart that it did not work. I worked a very long time on my marriage. It's his choice that we are not divorced right now. He has been there for me as a friend through all this and I understand his reasons and as his friend am helping him too with this. I have no financial gain in prolonging the devorce. He has a girlfriend and has had one for a long time. She is very good to my kids and she loves my kids so I have no problems with that. She treats them very good. They love being around her and her family too. I was asked specific questions and I gave honest non sarcastic answers and it still is not good enough. As far as your first comment to me. AGain for any insults to you. I guess it's okay for you to speak your mind and tell me what it is you feel but I'm wrong as I did a very bad thing a while ago and had an oc. So anything I may have to say or contributed is moot and useless. Hmmmm.....

Mary,

You aren't reading what I wrote....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am very sorry I have insulted you in some way by being here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never said that. You do not insult me at all by being here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you don't know what all happened in my marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I don't, but I do notice you still refer to him as "my husband" and state you loved him very much. Still consider him a good "friend" and he has been there for you during some very trying times...hmmmm

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess it's okay for you to speak your mind and tell me what it is you feel but I'm wrong </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one said you were "wrong" about anything you said with the exception of the little battles with some members of this forum. It takes away from the purpose of the forum and many times scares off new posters.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> as I did a very bad thing a while ago and had an oc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NTMO, some of my very closest friends are FOW,,in cyber life and in real life. (with ONE major exception <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )Your chosen "label" does not define you.