Nerly... I think I am falling in love with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

Just wanted to say, N2Mo, has been very supportive to me , and has given me very good advice when responding to my posts and I AM A BW!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thank you angels! That is nice of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mary,

I post regularly on TOW and they tolerate me because I mind my manners and I am never disrespectful nor do I ignore them as human beings who are often struggling. No BS goes on that board EVER without being reminded that it is the TOW board and that their primary concern is to protect the purpose of their board and the pain that some of their members are experiencing. I was told in no uncertain terms what they would tolerate from me...and I have been diligent in respecting their position.

Nowhere is that MORE evident than on their OWN pregnancy board which is OFF limits for BWs. All BWs are swiftly booted from a board where the heartbreaking problems surrounding pregnancy are raw and fresh. Why? Well because those people are often in deep pain and need protection....and guess what...so are the ladies here that are struggling from the other side. BWs are repeatedly told that TOW is NOT interested in their pain...in fact the phrase that is used over and over again to anyone who dares to suggest that the OW has some responsibility in these tragedies... "KNOW YOUR PLACE".

BWs who go there and remember where they are and that their pain is not welcome on certain issues....because that is NOT the purpose of their board are treated well. It is not very different here. Yes, you are the mother of an OC. I personally think that children should be cared for by BOTH parents....but it is NOT my choice and this board will never tolerate the kind of insensitivity that you practice by expecting to be heard here.

There are undoubtedly ladies who have enough time away from the pain of this incident to learn from you (the same is true on the TOW board as well) unfortunately....many aren't....and just as BWs are asked to mind their manners and remember where they are....please extend that same courtesy to the ladies here. Forgive them, as you wish to be forgiven....and recognize that spilling your pain on this board...especially when you have alternative places designed to support YOU...is unwelcome, pretentious and rude.

star*fish...

You frustrate me!! How do you so easily, so tastefully, and so diplomatically say what I have been mumbling, bumbling and doing such a poor job conveying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thank you.


Pep.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nerly... I think I am falling in love with you
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both of us are very strong in our belief in the Marriage Builders Concepts.

Because of your confession and my reciprocating feelings, and following our MB principles, I see the need for immediate exposure and I have to let you know,,,,,


I'm telling Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

STarfish, I have never ever bashed a new bw. Nor have told any bw xmm or whatever that my way is the way. I actually agree on some issues. But it's not seen as I'm the xow. In post that your referring to it started off by me answering questions by someone HERE who was asking specific questions....it went from there. I was bashed for being honest about my feelings. ON TOW, I've never gotten into a fight with a bw. I think with all the bw who come on the pregnancy board there really was only one that got me on a bad day and I may have said something to her, but still I never told her to leave or anything else. I welcome bw coming over to our board. I don't push my belief's on others. I'm not sure where you got that. But I also feel I had right to defend myself to the poster here who twisted every word I said and made it something it was not. Most of what she said about me is not and is very clear it's not. I was asked questions by another poster and I answered. I was then bashed and heckeled by someone else for answering questions. I don't come here to cause problems. I'm not that way. I'm have always gotten along with everyone. I've made mistakes in my life and boy do I learn from them. At least I can say that. Long before I was a ow I was a bw, more than once. It sure felt good to come to my senses. I don't agree with everything everyone says, but it's not up to me to say your going to H*ll for that. People poss there opinions on me, and on BOTH boards.....why am I limited to say how I feel. Just because I feel it does not mean it's what everyone should do. I've had enough ladies tell me I've been of some help to them on both boards. There is a small few that don't like me and they are far from newbies. There is one poster who is a bw w/oc who use to post here. Her and I email all the time. And yes we have agreed to disagree at times. Because I say something about how important it is to me about my children, it's just assumed right away that I'm saying no one else matters. If you and the others only knew what I did to protect xmm's kids in this mess when my stbxh wanted to open the can of worms to his family. He was so upset over what was going on. I had to plead with him not to do this to his kids....not xmm (I did not care as he did not) but his family. I am not as harsh as you may think. Most of what you looked at is a response that I was defending myself. Pep I think asked why would I care to as I don't know her....I guess because I am not that person and even though I don't know these people, you never know when you will. Plus it's JUST NOT ME. I'm tired of looking like this horrible person because I don't agree with her and becasue I have told her it's not always the ow...sometimes it's the mm or bw.....it has to do with personaility I feel personaly and not the title. Also circumstances can bring things out in people. I aprricate what your saying starfish, but I think you misunderstood me.

Mary,

STarfish, I have never ever bashed a new bw.

Bashing is not the issue chere...I am not acusing you of bashing. I am suggesting that this place is a sanctuary...a safe place for BWs...just like TOW is a safe place for OWs.

Nor have told any bw xmm or whatever that my way is the way. I actually agree on some issues.

There is also agreement on TOW between OWs and BWs...that doesn't make their perspective welcome on the pregnancy board.

But it's not seen as I'm the xow. In post that your referring to it started off by me answering questions by someone HERE who was asking specific questions....it went from there. I was bashed for being honest about my feelings.

That's what I'm trying to explain. Your honest feelings are probably very difficult for some of these ladies to hear...they just aren't ready. It is not much different for many OWs who are not ready to be exposed to the pain of BWs. Surely you can understand that.

ON TOW, I've never gotten into a fight with a bw. I think with all the bw who come on the pregnancy board there really was only one that got me on a bad day and I may have said something to her, but still I never told her to leave or anything else.

I'm not acusing you of ugliness....I have no idea what you have said or not said to BWs. The point is that this particular issue...the children created by affairs...is so volatile that both boards try to offer unconditional support for their members from each side. If you want to post on MB....I think it's only fair that you follow the same rules that y'all expect BWs to follow over there. Post on the EN board where folks are not in such pain and all perspectives are discussions are far less hurtful for our more distressed members.

I welcome bw coming over to our board.

Yes...on general. I welcome you to our board...on EN.

I don't push my belief's on others. I'm not sure where you got that.

Please tell me where I accused you of any such thing. I did not. But you feel the need to be heard on this issue (because it is important to you) on this board (which is really designed to support BSs) filled with folks who are just begining to deal with some of these issues. Many of these ladies will get to a place where they may be able to accept OC in their lives and heal....but time will do that.

But I also feel I had right to defend myself to the poster here who twisted every word I said and made it something it was not.

Twisting words goes on in every forum on the net...it's sad but true. However, feeling a need to defend oneself from anonymous posters...isn't a "right" it's unecessary. None of these people can truly malign you in your real life. Offense is taken...not given. I personally...don't take it and you shouldn't either. It's not necessary to respond...simply to know the truth of who you are.

Most of what she said about me is not and is very clear it's not.

I believe you....I just think these kinds of discussions interfere with the real work we do here. The purpose of this board is to help rebuild marriages...just like the purpose of TOW is to support folks who are in affairs. You are at cross-purpose with the folks here.

I was asked questions by another poster and I answered. I was then bashed and heckeled by someone else for answering questions. I don't come here to cause problems.

Good...you don't strike me as a mean person. I know you consider the guilt and pain that BWs share on TOW to be sometimes inappropriate..you've said so...surely you understand that I'm saying the same thing here.

I'm not that way. I'm have always gotten along with everyone.

And I am not suggesting you don't post and learn here...but perhaps the EN board would be the most appropriate.

I've made mistakes in my life and boy do I learn from them. At least I can say that. Long before I was a ow I was a bw, more than once.

This always surprises/confuses me....how someone who has "felt" this pain is willing to risk causing the same pain to someone else.

It sure felt good to come to my senses. I don't agree with everything everyone says, but it's not up to me to say your going to H*ll for that.

I don't believe in hell...or heaven either. But I do believe in kindness and compassion. For you...and for the people here. I am asking you to be compassionate and understand that right now...even though you may be trying to help these ladies understand the plight of the OC...that they aren't ready. And that those of us who are veterans on this board...will try our best to protect them. Truth IS important...and hearing all sides is essential for that...but timing is also an issue and that's why this board is designed for this time in BSs lives. Let them heal before you expect them to face your reality.

People poss there opinions on me, and on BOTH boards.....why am I limited to say how I feel.

I am respectfully requesting that you limit not WHAT you say...but WHERE you say it...just like on TOW.

Just because I feel it does not mean it's what everyone should do. I've had enough ladies tell me I've been of some help to them on both boards. There is a small few that don't like me and they are far from newbies. There is one poster who is a bw w/oc who use to post here. Her and I email all the time.

I have the same relationship with ladies on TOW...but I respect their board. And I respect their desire to protect those who are hurting.

And yes we have agreed to disagree at times. Because I say something about how important it is to me about my children, it's just assumed right away that I'm saying no one else matters. If you and the others only knew what I did to protect xmm's kids in this mess when my stbxh wanted to open the can of worms to his family.

Again...no one is accusing you of being a bad person...only of having bad manners...sorry.

He was so upset over what was going on. I had to plead with him not to do this to his kids....not xmm (I did not care as he did not) but his family.

Chere...these ladies don't want to know this information...it hurts to hear it...it hurts right now.

I am not as harsh as you may think. Most of what you looked at is a response that I was defending myself.

I never said you were harsh...only that you are breaking rules you would not allowed to be broken on your own board.

Pep I think asked why would I care to as I don't know her....I guess because I am not that person and even though I don't know these people, you never know when you will. Plus it's JUST NOT ME. I'm tired of looking like this horrible person because I don't agree with her and becasue I have told her it's not always the ow...sometimes it's the mm or bw.....it has to do with personaility I feel personaly and not the title. Also circumstances can bring things out in people. I aprricate what your saying starfish, but I think you misunderstood me.


Mary...you sound like you can be a caring person...so please...try to understand that this is not personal. I could go on the TOW pregnancy board and be the nicest person imaginable....and I would still be asked to leave and post on general.

Although I don't agree with what you've said about me not minding my manners....I will only post to those who want me to. As far as pushing my feelings on people I don't....but again, I will only post to those who have in the past posted back to me. I will say that there are probally about 6 bw on our board and we talk about the same things we do here, and they have not been asked to leave, so the general thing I'm not sure what your talking about. I don't go on general very often myself. I still think you took me wrong and my intentions and my words, but that is okay. It's okay to agree to disagree.

When I went over to TOW, I asked for clarification about posting...many folks, including a moderator, told me that only OW were allowed on the boards outside of General. I have stuck to that rule...not because I would be "kicked off" (because I have noticed several BWs who say they post on other boards there) but because I respected the fact that that it is their sanctuary. I wish you would respect that this is our sanctuary. The EN board is the board where diverse discussion occur...not the "Infidelity Forum" which is where people are hurting the most...and this forum has more pain than all the others.

I can't make you stop posting here...well actually...maybe I could LOL...but I won't. I prefer to just keep reminding you that your presence here is counterproductive to many of the BSs who are experiencing this from the other side. I still contend that it's bad manners (whether it's true or not) to share statements like you had "to beg the MM not to hurt his kids". Often in an effort to "prove" how noble you are...you unconsciously say incredibly insensitive things. Rather than just "defend" the type of person you are....why not BE the kind of person you say you are. If you are truly as compassionate as you say you are...then you will continue your discussion on TOW..not here.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Or how about this:

How about wearing your BW hat while you are here? Are you sure your marriage is over?

Starfish,

Just wanted to state that as a Mod on C&A on TOW, BWs ARE welcome to post, and that comes straight from the site admin. There are protected boards on TOW, but C&A isn't one of them.

Yes, BWs who come in screaming and swearing might be edited or deleted, but so would OWs here...
As a matter of fact, I have rarely ever used my Mod privlidges to edit BWs...

I just wanted to clear that up. If you want to post there, post away...

Ditto what MeNtheBoyz said. BW ARE welcome to post, and some do on a regular basis! We will stop any bashing that goes on though, or general nastiness that comes up once in a while.

MeNtheBoyz,

I'm sure you are who you say you are, I just don't know you. Since I don't...I'll ask on General again for further clarification about what you've said here. I have a pretty good idea of what they will say since I've asked before though....I'm sure the thread is on there...but it was when I first started posting. As I said...A moderator is the one who told me that non-OW belong only on General which is designed to be open to all perspectives.

It's not that C&A is "protected", anymore than this board is "protected", but it is a board like this one where because of the content...I believe it's a particularly sensitive place for anyone to expect someone to be very interested in the "other" perspective and I would never try anyway to "help" folks by presenting arguments designed to make them feel bad about their choices. These issues are complex and devastating on all sides.

Thank you very much for the invitation, but I don't think it would be good manners considering what I've already been told. I don't like to see either board disrupted....because I respect what each board is designed to do and I have helped folks from all sides of this triangle. I know how deeply these issues hurt...I know that folks need to vent sometimes without worrying about offending others who may be situated on the other end.

As far as moderation....practically nothing gets moderated here besides obscenity. I've seen far more moderation on the TOW board but that's because when BWs go over there...they are often really badly behaved! yikes! Y'all have some very mean and nasty trolls....part of that is because obscenity is so ordinary. What I do know from seeing it happen over and over again...is that you protect your "own" quite fervently, and make it very clear which perspectives are going to carry the most weight. That's understandable...but so is the reverse.

I still think the infidelity forum is a sanctuary for folks who have been deeply hurt from affairs and are trying to rebuild their marriages and that folks who aren't dealing with infidelity have 7 boards on the "Issue Forum" where people are not hurting so badly to discuss their feelings.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

JM

Thats furtherest from the truth. You taken a personal... stand..not a byass one. You don't take yourself "out of the box"

As soon as I outed Entwife... which I had all rights too! You blacked balled me.

Also, instead of letting the person I was posting to...come to her own conclusion..and had the ability..to delete the post herself...

And the post was far from bashing...she asked me something..I just answered her... she may have not like my answer. And we are not talking about a woman that had an affair at all... she was grown OC.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You deleted me for different reasons... you did it..b/c you were pissed at me for other reasons. Are you not so suppose to be byass? Are you suppose to look at it like it is?

This kind of action is why so many don't post all that often on that board...

JMO
wiz

Starfish,

On TOW I am Ryansbob.

Trust me, we've gone round and round about who is allowed to post on C&A, and BWs are welcome.

True, some Mods may be quicker to dlete/edit than others, but we try to keep a balance.

We welcome spirited discussions with both sides opinions represented, we just don't like them to get too "ugly"...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> JM

Thats furtherest from the truth. You taken a personal... stand..not a byass one. You don't take yourself "out of the box"

Not true. I am very far "out of the box" and have gotten in trouble because of that on my own board - for not moderating enough sometimes.

As soon as I outed Entwife... which I had all rights too! You blacked balled me.

I didn't black-ball you - how could I do that? It's a PUBLIC message board. I think (and still do) that what you did was wrong.

Also, instead of letting the person I was posting to...come to her own conclusion..and had the ability..to delete the post herself...

And the post was far from bashing...she asked me something..I just answered her... she may have not like my answer. And we are not talking about a woman that had an affair at all... she was grown OC.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Bring that up with the "grown OC" yourself. I'm not going to get into a "they said, we said, you said" contest with you Wizard.

You deleted me for different reasons... you did it..b/c you were pissed at me for other reasons. Are you not so suppose to be byass? Are you suppose to look at it like it is?

Me? Pissed at you? Hardly. I don't KNOW you to be pissed at you. If you come to the board, and post something rude - it will be deleted. Sometimes people ask that other's posts be deleted because it offends THEM.

This kind of action is why so many don't post all that often on that board...

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting.

JMO
wiz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just my honest answers. This doesn't belong here. If you have issues with TOW - bring them up there - not here.

Ah...Ryansbob! Okay..I DO recognize that name....thanks for clarifying. You guys don't have a search engine on TOW..so I can't pull up that old discussion (maybe as a moderator you can). It was just a very short thread where I was apprised of where I should and should not post. I do however, have several PMs warning me to "mind my manners" and stay where I should...even from other moderators.

There is alot of rhetoric that BWs are tolerated better on TOW than OWs are tolerated here...and it's just alot of finger pointing from both sides I think. I don't think either site has an abundance of members with much tolerance because emotions are just too high....I understand that and don't judge people who are in pain. The truth is that outsider perspectives are not tolerated there well at all...nor here either. Consequently, I try exceedingly hard to just help people when I have something I think I can really contribute, stay out of the sensitive areas...and not stir up trouble. I'm not a BW since my H has never had an affair or an OW...so I'm not carrying around that kind of pain...but many folks here are....and many folks there are hurt too.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Starfish,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think either site has an abundance of members with much tolerance because emotions are just too high.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is one of the reasons *I* am a Mod. My situation lends a unique absence of certain raw emotion that allows me to be very tolerant. now don't get me wrong, I don't wear a halo...I occasionally have strong opinions that others may not agree with, but overall I'm fair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Consequently, I try exceedingly hard to just help people when I have something I think I can really contribute, stay out of the sensitive areas...and not stir up trouble. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is exactly what *I* do on this board.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Consequently, I try exceedingly hard to just help people when I have something I think I can really contribute, stay out of the sensitive areas...and not stir up trouble.

That is exactly what *I* do on this board. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I'm sure that's true...everything except "stay out of the sensitive areas" part anyway. This board is THE most sensitive board we probably have....it's also the board that probably holds the most interest for you because you are on the opposite end of this...I understand that. Your posts are generally very respectful and kind....I've certainly noticed that. And while you may post with alot of sensitivity almost always ...starting a thread on this board about sending birthday and Christmas cards to OC, for instance, is probably not all that sensitive. You must have had some inkling of that...becayse you added the disclaimer that "you weren't trying to start any contact debates" which tells me you knew the potential was there even though luckily it remained a good discussion.

As I said before...no one is going to stop OW from posting here...hardly ANYONE gets banned from this site, in fact the three folks I know of who were banned (like Omnam) weren't OP. Still, it would undoubtedly be far more gracious for sure if the posting by OP was done off the infidelity forum and in spite of what you say here...I think that a similar feeling is shared at TOW by most of it's members and I respect that.

Wizard....
I didn't see the thread that was deleted about me. I dont' see how you "outed" me. I am a BW trying to make the best of a bad situation that I had no hand in creating.
I have followed some of the MB principles. Primarily the plan b. It has worked and my H and I are strong and still in love.
I regularly post on TOW because these ladies have been invaluable in helping me see the other side. If I cannot let go of my pain, grief, and anger..then I cannot help my family get past the affair.
We have contact with OC. And I love that little girl as my own.
In fact, sometimes I have felt unwelcome here because I have contact.
The only times I have seen BS's "reprimanded" is when they post spiteful things in order to hurt people.
ent