</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> JM

As soon as I outed Entwife... which I had all rights too! You blacked balled me.

Also, instead of letting the person I was posting to...come to her own conclusion..and had the ability..to delete the post herself...

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also - I don't have moderator powers HERE. Your post about ENTWife was deleted HERE. That wasn't my doing, I didn't report the post or ask for it to be deleted. That was YOUR moderators HERE.

Starfish,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> starting a thread on this board about sending birthday and Christmas cards to OC, for instance, is probably not all that sensitive. You must have had some inkling of that...becayse you added the disclaimer that "you weren't trying to start any contact debates" which tells me you knew the potential was there even though luckily it remained a good discussion.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Threads on that sort of thing are started all the time by BWs, I didn't see a problem with it, or see it as insensitive. My comment regarding it not being a contact debate was to illustrate that I wasn't asking about visitation, just a specific point about cards and gifts. I started that thread in direct relation to a situation I was experiencing at the time, and in those cases I often get great perspective from posters here.

Just as often BWs, whether posters on this board or not, start similar types of threads on "our" board asking motivations or thought processes behind choices OWs make.
I see it as a great way to further understanding, both the good and the bad...

:-)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

I started that thread in direct relation to a situation I was experiencing at the time, and in those cases I often get great perspective from posters here.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So your purpose was to help your own situational problem unrelated to marriage building, correct?

Do you think that is/was appropriate?

Pep

Ya know what Pep?? I have held my tongue for a long time.....

Exactly HOW many OCs does your H have??

Oh, that's right..NONE! (if I recall you have a couple of adopted kids)

So why do YOU post here????

I post to issues that deal with the OC, and yes, occasionally (very occasionally) to posters dealing with marriage issues such as abuse, because I know what they're experiencing.

I don't just blanketly advise people to remain in situations that are harmful and damaging emotionally and PHYSICALLY simply because they're married....yes, seeing some of that here REALLY bugs me. When a woman is in DANGER, the last thing she needs to be doing is "Plan A".

No, I will *not* encourage such posters to *build* that type of marriage.

Other than that, I stay out of it.
Maybe since you don't have an OC, YOU should stay out of THAT.

Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

Exactly HOW many OCs does your H have??

zero


So why do YOU post here????

To help marriages in trouble.


Maybe since you don't have an OC, YOU should stay out of THAT.

Why would you say that? I am here to further the Harley's goals of helping marriage.


Pep

edited to add... I do not care who you are, or your past history of WW, BW, OW, OM, BH, whatever ... I ONLY care that what you post is helpful and not hurtful to the newbies who read here.

Posting about birthday cards to OC may be helpful to you personally, but is that helpful to any one whose marriage is falling apart due to adultery? I think it is not helpful, it is distracting and possibly confusing.

Realize this, I do not think your intent is to hurt others when you come here.

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Here's a crazy idea , if you don't like a post don't read it,Duh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
It helps to hear all prespectives of a situation, and you can deal with a situation better that way, yes it may sometime hurt to see or hear things , however, in the long run you may be better equiped to understand and deal with a situation.
I personally have found other prosectives helpful, yes even those of ow, i can see what they are feeling and use that to help with things as far as oc.
BTHY im an Bw and have learned from the ow both the good & bad one's on what to possibly expect now and the future from our XOW.
It helps to be prepared for all situations/outcomes and help prevent future problems in a marriage

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: angels1966 ]</small>

Here's a crazy idea , if you don't like a post don't read it,Duh. [Roll Eyes]

Ahhhh sarcastic and insensitive...exactly the sort of thing that can really cause hard feelings here. This is especially sad coming from someone who I know has had a hard time. As I said before...the consideration that I'm asking here is VERY MUCH the in line with expectations on TOW...that we respect the sensitive boards and the folks still actively hurting. I suppose that your glib response is that if folks don't like posts...well they just shouldn't be stupid enough to read them (duh).

It helps to hear all prespectives of a situation, and you can deal with a situation better that way, yes it may sometime hurt to see or hear things , however, in the long run you may be better equiped to understand and deal with a situation.

Don't you really mean it helps "you", because not everyone here is in the same place you are angels and you certainly can't speak for everyone. Not everyone has the same situation you have. And you don't really expect a whole forum of "angels" anyway do you?

I personally have found other prosectives helpful, yes even those of ow, i can see what they are feeling and use that to help with things as far as oc.

I'm glad you have...and I think that when the time is right...most people find other perspectives can be very helpful. But again...what is "personally" helpful for you RIGHT NOW...is not necessarily helpful for others.

BTHY im an Bw and have learned from the ow both the good & bad one's on what to possibly expect now and the future from our XOW.

angels...I'm so glad you have found some peace since your early posts in June...but you certainly didn't arrive with the same laissez faire attitude that you have now. You were pretty angry. How receptive do you think you would be to perspectives on one of those bad days? That's what I mean about "timing". Back then, you were anticipating the birth of the OC and very scared and worried. Now that you are in a better place...you expect everyone else to be too huh? And if they aren't...well...so what..they can just "ignore" posts?

It helps to be prepared for all situations/outcomes and help prevent future problems in a marriage

Again...this blanket generalization will not apply to everyone in every situation and every time of their life...especially not THIS time. You can try, but I've lived long enough to know that there are some things that can never be sufficiently prepared for. You have 83 posts and have been here since June...so you are operating from a very limited perspective/experience that is only about you and what you need and where you are. Both TOW and MB have been hashing this stuff out for years.

Besides...if one of our members REALLY wants that other perspective...it's easy enough to go read at TOW. I would caution all of our members however, to respect their privacy and be courteous of their sensitive boards.

Nerly said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The issue on this forum is trying to rebuild your marriage while dealing with the secondary issue of an OC.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thing is, going by that standard, (which btw I agree with), NTMO is certainly not the only one to make OC issues, primary issues. I think many posters of all labels have gotten caught up from time to time in all the OC stuff, before the M has even been worked on. The issue on this P/C forum should be trying to rebuild our marriages, but unfortunately it's often the issues of OC that seem to take a front seat to the M recovery.

If only the issue of the OC was recognized more often as the secondary issue, and the M, the first priority, I believe more M would recover. With a recovered M, or at least one that is working toward recovery, the issues of the OC will be and are much easier to iron out.

Star, do you have a OC? I dont really know you, so just asking. I know PEP doesn't and we dont agree all the time. But if it wasn't for the decussions on OC/OW that happen here, would any of us figure our what was best for our families and our M? I too was very angry when I got here, my situation is different then some one w a one night stand or an abusive H, they are all different and we get here and we read and we kind of pick and choose who we can and cannot talk to. And who we dont agree or agree with. Thats why its PUBLIC. Like Ron Howard the comedian said they threw me in P U B L I C. And I think we all know its public and anyone can post and offer what ever they have to the situation. PEP doesn't have an OC, she really doesn't know the feeling of dealing with the oc. BUT she sure knows the MB concepts. And for that I have learned alot. And for those OW that come here, sometimes I get what they are saying and those I dont, I dont bother w/. Even as a newbie. I had the oldies to take up for me and get the ow so called off my back. But I have learned from each of the people here. I would hate to see anyone here leave, just because I didn't agree with them. My 2 cents again.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D
Delighted to have Lynng as a "Legal-plan me" supporter
Delighted to have KT as a you can do this girl supporter
Delighted to have some of the OW here to show me, yes some of you do want C to work and people do change.
Delighted to have BBG-Niecy as my now you calm down girl supporter
All all of the rest of you here that help me daily to get though and be the best me I can be!
LUV,JT,Albany,stacia, all of you we are Sis by Fire!

Sunny... I worry about the freshly wounded men or women who come here on this board first, without posting on the other boards, and instead of focusing on their marriage ... they are immediately thrown into a series of discussions about the OC ... with NO knowledge of what it will take to get their marriage back together.

First things first.

Decide if the marriage can be a safe and loving place again. Learn the tools that can help the relationship. Make a plan together (POJA) to repair the damage the affair has done .... then discuss other issues. Like OC, contact.... and all that jazz.

Pep

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

star~

I could be way wrong here, but I don't think angels was making a general statement to BW here when she said, "Here's a crazy idea , if you don't like a post don't read it, Duh."

But oh if only we could be reminded to watch our choice of words each time we're insensitive or sarcastic, as on the board you mod--it would be awesome! I was just telling someone the other day you cannot even call the WS a dork without being scolded. I appreciate the accountablility and the intolerance of name calling. It also really helps in staying focused on the subject at hand.

I know and understand that, and read your post. I agree that the POJA need to be made first and at the beginning. Some people do have time before the oc arrives, some get the news on the day of and some 6 years down the road. So just depending on when and how much pain involved. Some people get over pain faster, fogiving comes easy to some, others the hate & pain eats at them. Me I was told when ow was 6-8 weeks, so yes we did have time to not worry about the visits or anything test, all that happens after the birth, most anyway. Others dont, they are told about the oc and H wants visits and oc is coming over next week, well that would be different you are slapped w/ working on M and oc issues at the same time. For them dealing w/ the OC in their lives IS working on their M. Look at taylorsstepmom- when did she have to work on her M and not oc issue? So I think all of us in this pie is needed and those that are to hurt, will be dealt with like they always have.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Other than extreme cases, such as MM & BW having to take custody of OC, there is plenty of time. When I say OC should be secondary, I don't mean to say to ignore OC issues and shove under the rug as if a non-issue. Quite the contrary--OC issues do need to be addressed. I just think far too many people are in a hurry to figure out C/NC and issues of that nature, when the M recovery hasn't even begun. In most cases, the OC isn't going anywhere, so work on the M first. Just like the M should come before our own children, so should it be with the OC.

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

No sunny,

No I do not have an OC, I am an OC. My mother remarried while I was very young and my step father adopted me....and abused me. I am also finishing my certification as a coach. I currently mentor both couples and OP who are trying to cope with all sides of the infidelity issue and recover not just their marriages...but their lives.

Like pep...I realize that many people BEGIN posting on this forum...and that it is sadly in need of refocussing on the marriage concepts and how to cope with this from the ground floor...instead of the OW/BW/OC drama. Much of this stuff...like this thread for instance... gets to the point where it simply takes away from the real work of this board. With that in mind...I'm going to move on and try to start some concepts threads to help some of the newcomers here.

Oh, ok star, just wondering. I know you and Pep are here to help us heal our M. And for that I am greatful. But we on the OC board, in order to work on our M have to deal w/ the oc issues. Like I said some earlier than most ans some more than most. But we still in order to work on our M have to get over this hump <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And I agree fighting among OW/BS really isn't all that about M. But it will also prepare the BS what to look forward to. because my understanding is I can only change my heart, right. I have to see where I am in this M. And beleive me alot of fueding has let me see both sides! I see the ow that want to work out C and dont. I see who the others here have made both sides to the issue work in their M. I was told to expect the worst, and in some ow here, I have heard it. And it helped me. Not all that was said mad me feel good and some did cause me pain. But seeing it and hearing it has made me a better person, not to be like that. Made me stronger for MY beleif's and where I stood. And yes even though Lynng may ask me if I hit my head, I know she has my best interest at heart. And have an ow tell me no I dont have a legal right to anything, thats a reminder just how hard this will be. And me try even harder to say yes I do in my home, maybe not w/the OC but w/ my family I do. And I do have a legal responsiblity to the OC to give him the best care I can because if something was to happen to him, I would be legally responsible. So this melting pot we have here is teachable to M and my recovery.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

sunny,

You are "sunny" aren't you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Let me ask you a rhetorical question. Which came first, the vulnerability in a marriage or an affair/pregnancy? Even though I agree that an OC is one heck of a "hump" there is a mountain of marriage problems to climb before you can even hope to get past that hump. Focussing on your marriage and your family and getting that back on track is essential to surviving the landmine field that surrounds this emotional issue.

Instead...too often...folks here simply get so caught up in the drama surrounding the OC....that it's easy to blow off stuff like establishing care, safety, honesty and protection in their marriage. Do you doubt that if those things are in place...everyone of the issues surrounding this difficult challenge can be dealt with in a healthier way?

Think about this for a moment. What happens...like with "lonely" today who wanted to go pick up the OC with her husband...and there is no recovery plan, no POJA, no care protection or honesty? Well, you can easily see that it was a fiasco and weakened rather than strengthened her marriage. This board is pitifully weak on concepts and high on drama. That drama is encouraged by the influx of OW from TOW who keep the focus on the OC...not the marriage. I'm not saying they have an agenda...not at all...but they can only help with that one issue...the child.

The TOW perspective is invaluable for understanding the issues that surround OC...but they are not going to help you rebuild your marriage and that's got to be a huge part of the main focus here because without that...the marriage won't survive the OC. Bickering, dramatics, tit for tat and keeping the focus on OC...is exactly where this board benefits marriages least.

I might as well give my bias upfront....I don't like to see any child emotionally abandoned by a parent...and that includes OC...but even if the goal is to embrace OC...the healing must begin with the marriage. The foundation must be laid to provide a good environment for ALL the children...not just the OC.

Why the heck would an unmarried or unpartnered OW or XOW come to a site called Marriage Builders?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

PLEASE SOMEONE EXPLAIN!!!

And I, for one, don't want to hear or understand the "other side." If I wanted that, I would read YOUR board!

Go away!!!

garden bunny....thanks for stopping by. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I looked up your old posts...and I see alot of anger, but not much about you. Maybe it would help if you tried to explain how this has impacted you, and how you think this has impacted this board. It's easy to say folks don't belong here...it's harder to say why....and it's the "whys" that would really help.

JM

PLEASE!! You deleted a post (on TOW)I had answer CP's questions & NOTHING in that post warranted that....especially when this poster I was posting too... had the ability to delete the post herself?? I just found your behaviour "weird"

Hmmmm
Makes me wonder about you...
******************************

Hey now I figured out the writting style of Ryansbob... thanks for clarifying.
***********************************

I didn't read everything that has been written...but I think its time we move from this....

I just wanted to see what JM had to say about the incident..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Its no biggy? Some just have warped way of dealing with their emotions... i just couldn't figured it out..why not let the person that I posted for delete for herself?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I am so irritatd, Ryansbob- don't GIVE US THIS CRAP!! Just the other day you say *****NEWSFLASH***** to a very polite BS in pain...and then gave the BOO HOO POOR BS statement after. Rude, rude rude. And furthermore, I must LOUDLY agree that tow has about ZERO ZERO ZERO care or understanding of what WOMEN MUST GO THRU when their H has an OC.. OR MAYBE YOU DO.. since they feel its such a joke to be the BS......

The SAD fact is that when I was hurt and raw- I DID try to be kind, understanding and reasonable w/tow... NEVER FLAMED.. always posted openly about myself, my pain, and tried to respond to all-- pssssssf... what a waste. The SWEET KIND women there SWAYED my mind and began to make me see how right I was for supporting H in NC. I felt like the people their had no soul or something???? They were quite possibly the meanest people collctively I have ever met-- even to one another!!!!

Okay, back to "meaningful" discussions...LOL!

Heck, I got edited HERE one weekend for telling a nasty, troublemaking OW off ! You OW have it NIIIIIICE! In fact, there are practically MORE ow here than bs!!!!!