Okay, back for more "helpful" marriage advise... lol

Starfish.. come on now... you are NOT A BS W/OC.. you have NO idea of

YES YES YES the drama and emotions and pure sick pain - the ultimate pain of losing EVERYTHING and THEN OC??

Hey I appreciate your wanting to help for whatever reason your heart leads you.... you are an OC....

You can tell the girls here they are basically petty, full of drama and immature in your polite way all you want..and many will say "thanks".... but this IS pregnancy/child section.. I'd say this is the first stompting ground for us because THIS situation DOES warrant lots of extra REMINDERS FOR LIFE of the A.. we MAY need extra time to rant, rave,argue,bicker...etc....

Please don't make posters here feel they are stupid and childish,and care not to build their marriage .. and love drama. YEAH RIGHT!! We NEED to do this HERE.. and WE ALL support one another too, I believe. The OW/OC discussions just get BIG cause its life- they stir up the most irritations,etc. Hey, its healthy for me- and many here- this is the only place we can get some garbage out. If OW stirs this up in me, or us- and we get it out, so be it. Many, many OW/OC discussions have helped me learn a lot.

The OC issues many time MUST come first cause its the hardest, larger than life hurt of them all-- and once we get thru that part- we ARE more capable and more down to earth enough to seriously be able to work on our M.

I am living this issue- and I was a HARD CORE ANGRY person inside-- and NOW myself and H are over that part (most days).. and are really working on our M - and we could not before- its like a mandatory horror phase for some of us-- and THEN it starts to get better.

Starfish-- please I beg of you to not pick apart my post sentence for sentence-- I just dont have the energy to rebut and rebut again.. and just as the OW are accused of here-- well, it just will take away from MB... LOL.. really, this post is NOT personal against you, dear- just a little explanation of why we DO need to exhaust Ow/Oc subjects at times!!!!!!

and I was a HARD CORE ANGRY person inside--

Gio123...I think you are still angry. Which is why you seem to attack people who don't agree with what you have to say.

Personally....JMHO as "certain" people like to say, I don't see why there is so much "bashing". Everyone makes mistakes. EVERYONE. Don't we all fall short of the grace of GOD?

ent

Oh for crying out loud, what is with all the ow coming on here lately?

I am sick to death of reading the ow point of view and how everyone should bow down for the good of the oc. Or how everyone makes mistakes. Or how everyone needs to act like an adult. The PASSIVE AGRESSIVE meaning behind all the self serving words are plain as day. They want to control. They feel the oc should be treated the same as the BC. It is all a moot point here.

This is for marriages. People here do not need to concern themselves at all with the oc. THAT IS WHY OW/OC DON'T MATTER. If a couple is rebuilding their marriage what they chose to do is of no concern to anyone but them and THEIR FAMILY. The ow/oc and their needs and wishes do not matter.

I personally see right past their messages. I see all the two sided remarks. I see absolutely no benefit for an ow to be here to discuss the oc. Last year there was a post of how no contact was bad for the oc. WHO CARES? This is not the place to discuss that. TOW is perfect for that. HERE the concern is the marriage and how the couple will chose to handle the oc. GET IT?

But it is good that all the wives get to see just what type of people ow are. Lets them see how important it is to get a laywer, stand tall and stand firm. And YES I am using that as a blanket statement. You show me an ow who gets pregnant, and has the discussion with the mm. When she wants the child and he is telling her he does not, I want to see the ow who walks away, and doesn't force an unwanted child onto him, but instead decides that since she wanted the child, SHE will raise it ALONE. Show me the ow with the balls and the guts to take full responsiblity for HER decision to keep the child. THEN you might find some respect.

But as far as this site goes. Usually they are justifying (I didn't think I could get pregnant, or it was HIS fault, etc....) But almost always in a passive agressive way.

There are women on here new to pain and in shock. I don't think they need to hear, or even care about the ow/oc until they decide what they are going to do. And when they make those decisions, they need to make them for THEM and not with the ow/oc in mind.

gio,

I'm not sure why you interpreted this the way you have....but for the record...there is nothing stupid, petty or immature about the this situation or the people experiencing it. I didn't say that...nor would I. The arguments, however, can be all of those things and they often are.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hi LynnG
Always Brilliant!

Thanks for reminding us all.... the purpose of this board is to help members; suffering this tragedy and regaining their lives back! And to move on... to live better than ever marriages..and lives....

wiz

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> JM

PLEASE!! You deleted a post (on TOW)I had answer CP's questions & NOTHING in that post warranted that....especially when this poster I was posting too... had the ability to delete the post herself?? I just found your behaviour "weird"

** Well, whatever - I don't even remember the post in question - must have been important to you though. My most sincere apologies for deleting a post that must have been important for you. Please come back and repost it.

Hmmmm
Makes me wonder about you...

**No need to wonder about me. I'm just fine.


I just wanted to see what JM had to say about the incident..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

**I'm glad that my opinion is so important to you? Like I said before, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. No desire to. No need to. Not THAT important in *my* life.


=====moving on now........

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Jm

NO Sweat!!

I just figured that you could explain it..but like I said... it doesn't really matter. And your response doesn't come to a huge surprise to me. I figure you would say something like that...

I mentioned it only b/c you were inviting people over to your board.. I just wonder why you bother...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Giovanna,

I wasn't going to respond, but only because I DON'T want to pick fights with posters on a board that is their comfort zone, but I'll say this:
As I said in an earlier post, I never claimed to wear a halo. Yes, there are certain "hot button" issues that upset me, and I am not immune to the temptation to express anger. Especially at times when something may have me riled up in my own personal life, or when I see my own friends dealing with a lot of ugly things, yes, I get snippy. However, on "my" board, that is my place to do so. Just as several BWs who post both here often vent and say things that might be harsh but are perfectly polite on TOW.

And no offense, but while I do remember you being in a lot of pain and posting on TOW, you were often quite rude and confrontational...Understandable maybe, but you don't wear a halo either.

I won't take up any more space here on this issue, but you are more than welcome to discuss it with me on TOW.

(and btw, I have posted more than once to you here in a very supportive and kind manor)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
I might as well give my bias upfront....I don't like to see any child emotionally abandoned by a parent...and that includes OC...but even if the goal is to embrace OC...the healing must begin with the marriage. The foundation must be laid to provide a good environment for ALL the children...not just the OC.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And here is my bias upfront. I have no bias. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> OC contact or no contact is none of my business. It is solely the business of the married couple. This is an issue of "special" recovery that must be 100% POJA'd if the marriage is to be a joyful refuge for both husband and wife .... after recovery. Both spouses must be comfortable with the jointly-made decision. The circumstances are too varied situation to situation for a blanket "this is right" and "this is wrong".

This important decision can bring the couple closer together, if made using POJA.

Pep

Gio~

Where did "Ryans/M&TB" say "*****NEWSFLASH*****" to a BS in pain? I know "4tori" said it to you in your thread last week, and then later went on to offer what seemed to be a sincere apology, but I don't remember "M&TB" saying it to anyone.

I think we all need to take a collective breath around here.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

Star, yes I am Sunny was Sunnydale, but I turned into SunnyDelight, when my anger left. Not to say it doesn't creep back in every noe and then. Thing you say I dont really disagree with. Its just there is no step one, two, three, that makes M work. All people and all situations are different. Mine is different than others because I have faith in the one that created me and know that going though what I am, I have something to improve! And as you say, MB is not here to help me change my H, its to help ME change to better my M. I have read and re-read the princibles, plan a and b and how not to LB and all of this is fine. I had to find SUNNY and what SUNNY wanted, needed, and if my H was worthy or capible of changing himself so we could be a team. Alto of his change came from me finding myself and where I needed to be. The ow in my life was not the reason my M went south, it was me and H. She just stepped into a situation where she was used to step in where I didn't want to me. That is her mistake she will have to deal and live with. H was weak and he is stronger now. We really didn't make a whole lot of issue on the OC until close to his arrival. So yes, we have grown fast and recovered fast and can say now since we worked on our selves, we then could work on M and then we agreed POJA on A-OC. I think everyone here jumps into plan A-Be nice-Be sweet-Dont LB, and end up being this person that is not them. They need to get the anger out. And guess what that involves the OC. On this forum, it is a big part of getting over anger and working on the M. So I do feel it important for the WS here to get out the anger and talk to someone that IS past it so they can work on their M's. And bickering w/ ow helps to maybe get this out. Those of the ones that dont want to deal w/ can get on the private board which is almost takes forever! So we started our own. Therefore we help some go to a safe place away from OW and the bickering. And if the private board was more open to the BS, we really would have a safer place to go. Ask crazymom. So if you truely want to help us, help improve the private board here and help. If you do have a say or influence. I'm all into finding a solution to a proble instead of fighting about it. And that too helps my M. Not try and run someone off that doesn't agree or wants us to hear what our WS, may have done or told the ow in our life. They have a voice too and yes this is MB, but it is also a public board and have ever right to type what they want.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They have a voice too and yes this is MB, but it is also a public board and have ever right to type what they want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree...and don't we all? We are all exersizing that right...you in your way...I in mine. I will continue to champion your right to express yourself...and I will do the same for me. I respect the things you've written here...but unfortunately they don't apply to everyone, they apply to you and your process and what you uniquely need to address this issue (subjective thinking).

Many folks believe that being in the middle of this kind of emotional issue gives you special insight...and it does. But what it lacks...is objectivity because you ARE in the middle of it and can't achieve objectivity when you are. When your thinking is clouded with intense emotional ups and downs, it's impossible to be objective. There is great value and opportunity for knowledge in both subjective and objective perspectives on this issue. The dynamic here is one solely focussed on the subjective, which tends to be hyper-emotional and charged with very little to balance it out... since both BS and OW are both involved critically in different ways.

Autumn, M&TB said this to a BS on HER board- a BS who was NOT confronational, who was IN PAIN and was trying FOR C w/oc.. however, NTMO gave her the ****NEWSFLASH***** I spoke of and mocked the BS in general saying BOO HOO who cares about YOU. It is upsetting BECAUSE she and her friends that she "protects" come here. Why?

M&TB and ENT- this is exactly WHY I can become so "ANGRY" - not at my H or in REAL LIFE- but with you and the OW who come HERE so much- Yes, I am angry about the fact that *I* was honest, fair and NON trolling or MEAN, etc--- Yet I was ridiculed and bashed and sent NASTY pm's.... I was NOT confrontational UNLESS AND UNTILL FINALLY I was harassed and harassed and named-called some more- and then WOW I had the NERVE to sass back?? And stick up for myself???? Hey, I have to do that in my "real" life-- I'm sick of being so squeaky clean and PRISTINE.. I have feelings I need to get out. And you all being here STIR me up. So yes, I have "personal" reasons for my lack of patience-- not from OW in real life (she's a joke to H and me).. but from people HERE.

And Ent- I don't "attack" people that dont agree with me. I like a debate- I like opposing opinions, I can take a lot. However, I will strongly RESPOND to people who pretend to care here, and then who laugh and mock make fun of elsewhere like you and the TOW posters do. Two faced people here and in real life do not get a good response from me. Just because OTHERS attack on the SLY and I am up front. I have been THANKED many times HERE AND IN REAL LIFE for sticking up for the "underdog" or the people who are DYING to say what I did for them. Its just me.

And YES the anger is still not ALL gone! And WTF, I'n not allowed to still have SOME ANGER?? SHOULD I HAVE AN A or kill someone instead of posting here? YOU hang out at a place where the venom and nastiness is flowing- and you call me? Do that over there where you are an [censored] kisser.

Its amazing what me and others are dealing with, like TROOPERS to the outside world. Oh, and some still have ANGER FOR YEARS AND YEARS. Darn, I thought since my recovery only began in MAY of this year, I was on the right track?

Oh...and I forgot to say...actually there are some very well defined "steps" for rebuilding marriages...that is EXACTLY what the concepts/books/forums that Dr. H created do. Marriages have far more similarities than differences. The basic things needed to create romantic love and compatibility are the same for everyone: time, honesty, care and protection. Those are the foundation of this site..the Four Rules of a Successful Marriage (as per Harley).

Oh please, Starfish.. please.....

You are OC, right? And you post on TOW.. Your writing style is a bit familiar- reading your last post was like a riddle.... I RECOGNIZE those riddles.

Can you answer me this: are you wearing a poofey house coat and slippers and curlers in your hair right now? Is your life extremely boring? That may answer the question for me........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Gio~

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Star*fish is probably already answering this, but if I'm not mistaken, she's also Star*fish on TOW. No riddle or mystery there.

I tell you what...go on over to the EN board and ask folks there what I look like...most of them have seen pictures from the mb photo thread and many have met me in real life. You're way off chere. LOL

I'm not sure what you're angry about at all. If you could be more specific or at least explain, I might be able to figure out exactly what you're so upset about....and give you a better answer. I'm willing to try.

OH G-123 are we PMS'en! LOL I'm kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Star* I know there are different steps and WE use them here. We dont tell people if they dont their M doesn't have a chance. Some may work for some, not all. Depending on the situation. And thats why we are here to HELP. To give an example, inspiration, a shoulder. Not to say if you do it this way it will work or that way. If you just be NICE enough or never LB, or write your H a letter and tell him thats it, he will get out of his FOG and find his brain that has been stuck in his selfish butt and pull it out. But MB is right, we are not here to chnage your H, just YOU. Things to improve you: Get the anger out, safely, dont hold it in. Make yourself this strong attractive person that you know you can be, w/o being mean. The principles are the same for dealing w/ anyone, respect, compassion, caring, forgiving, loving. Some BS try their hearts out and guess what they still end up in a D. Was this site a waste of time to them, do they not get to come back or stay w/us because they are not working on a M any longer? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> HELL NO! Just because you tried and you did all of the priciples and it didn't work doesn't make them any less of a person. AT ALL! We are here to help people face and get over what they are going though, so yes they can improve their M or the next relationship they are in!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Autumn,

Actually, while I *do* remember having a bit of a rant and I *do* remember saying NEWSFLASH, it was NOT directed at a hurting BW. If I recall, it was a very general rant getting some things off my chest. As you know, we ALL get frustrated at times...

Actually, I am one of the *most* tolerant of BWs on "our' board...
MUCH moreso than some...
I can't say I've never gone off on a BW on "our" board, it has only EVER when provoked by someone being nasty.

And as I said earlier, LOTS of posters here go off on rants HERE, and still post very politely elsewhere...

Just wanted to add...that I post on TOW...solely on the General board where non-ow are asked to post. Because I am getting my certification as a coach and I mentor not only couples, but OP as well who are involved in infidelity...the TOW board is invaluable for helping me to understand that perspective as well as this one. Most of the time, because I show respect for everyone's humanity...I am well tolerated there...but not always. I do occasionally recieve some pretty ugly PMs or am accused of being a BW..but there are far more asking for help or telling me thankyou.

editted to add...I use the exact same posting name because I think that is honest and fair.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>