sunny,

Star* I know there are different steps and WE use them here. We dont tell people if they dont their M doesn't have a chance. Some may work for some, not all. Depending on the situation. And thats why we are here to HELP. To give an example, inspiration, a shoulder. Not to say if you do it this way it will work or that way. If you just be NICE enough or never LB, or write your H a letter and tell him thats it, he will get out of his FOG and find his brain that has been stuck in his selfish butt and pull it out.

I don't know who's "style" of help you're talking about...but it sure isn't mine. None of what you mentioned would resemble anything close to what I would tell someone.

But MB is right, we are not here to chnage your H, just YOU. Things to improve you: Get the anger out, safely, dont hold it in. Make yourself this strong attractive person that you know you can be, w/o being mean. The principles are the same for dealing w/ anyone, respect, compassion, caring, forgiving, loving. Some BS try their hearts out and guess what they still end up in a D.

Making yourself strong and attractive is a fabulous first step...one that many folks her are trying to achieve. It is only the first step though...and learning how to create compatibility and strengthen negotiation skills is what will ensure a happy marital future.

Was this site a waste of time to them, do they not get to come back or stay w/us because they are not working on a M any longer? [Mad] HELL NO! Just because you tried and you did all of the priciples and it didn't work doesn't make them any less of a person. AT ALL!

Excuse me? This is really confusing...WHO would/has ever said this? This site is never a waste of time no matter what happens to the marriages here....I've said that a million times.

We are here to help people face and get over what they are going though, so yes they can improve their M or the next relationship they are in!

That's exactly why most of us are here...though I doubt that's why TOW is here. I don't think most of the ladies here from TOW are interested in causing trouble...and many may even want to help...but they are not interested in improving your marriage or helping you learn MB concepts...that's pretty much a given.

M&TB~

It's not necessary to explain to me. I was taking up for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think for the most part you've been very careful to be respectful here. It was wrong for me to assume Gio was quoting something said on this board. I should've known, when you didn't refute it. Okay, so I'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp, or whatever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

sunny~

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just because you tried and you did all of the priciples and it didn't work doesn't make them any less of a person. AT ALL!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry, but I find this very offensive. When has anyone ever said or even intimated that someone is less of a person when things didn't work for them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> My heart breaks when things don't work for someone, and I'm quite sure that's the consensus of most here.

Again, I think we need to take a breath, and really think about what we're saying, assuming and quoting.

~ad

I was soooo relieved when I finally found this board. I wish I could have found it sooner when I was in the thick of my H "fog" and the OC issue and he was trying to decide what he would do. I would have been stonger in my opinions and having more confidence in what was right for me. I read this board for quite awhile before posting a little. It has helped me more than my IC in many ways.

But what has happened to it? So much fighting and looooong posts about what?? MB? Helping with OC issues? (Which BTW, I think have to be dealt with together. Or they may be no marriage to build.)

This site has been a lifeline to me and I hate to see people with valuable experience leave for other boards when so many need their input.

Star*Fish, I don't know you or your story. But since you have recently been here, you seem to be getting people riled up. Is that part of your coaches training? To rile up ladies in pain and those who are wanting to help them?

THATS ENOUGH, GO HELP SOMEONE ! THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD NOW THAT NEED OUR SUPPORT. I will not waste my time no longer in defending anyone with the right to free speech. Or bickering who needs to be here or not. We are all here for a reason, I'm going to find mine!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

LBelle,

I've gotten several requests from other folks for quite a while now to come here...BECAUSE folks were "all riled up". This has been going on for years on this board...so sorry...I won't take credit or blame for causing it or fixing it. My story is well documented all over this board...and easy to find. As far as coaching goes...there are fifteen proficies...and some of them are about having provocative discussions, relishing the truth, honing in on whats important....those things don't come easy sometimes...but they are just as vital as venting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not sure what you're angry about at all. If you could be more specific or at least explain, I might be able to figure out exactly what you're so upset about....and give you a better answer. I'm willing to try.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you are not asking me why I am "angry" about my life situation? That would be very very insulting... but I think you are asking me something else? As in---

I had you confused. I THOUGHT you were the mod on TOW preg. board that makes my skin crawl!!! This mod is as self-riteous and condescending as they come. Her own father is an a** dad, as TOW calls them, to a set of siblings who she talks bad about.. a woman who believes her xow mother and xmm father lived out a fairytale. However, the fairytale left the children of the M out of a father completely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anywoo-- Starfish, I really think your posts *could* be helpful, but you are not speaking to members here as people. You are writing in a way that is very, very mechanical, and almost condescending and arrogant. I don't see anything heart felt -- just robotic rebuttals AND I don't think people here need you to keep telling them "I'VE BEEN HERE LONGER- I KNOW MORE THAN YOU" type of attitude. No one likes that, especially since you are, frankly, an OC, not a BW w/OC who really does not have first hand knowledge of that pain.

If you approached in a softer way, I think myself or others would be more receptive to your insight or "help"...

Posting specifically to others to "remind" them of how much pain they were in JUST a short while ago (and NOW having big britches...) is not very supportive. Also doing all this homework on posters is just wasted energy and not received well. We don't need to be "reminded" of how our attitudes may change. I personally just don't like it. We all change our opinions and evolved over time when dealint w/this messy stuff. Its life.

Hey G123, I'd like to speak with you via email. I'm having trouble figuring out how to do the exchange thru a mod. Can you help me out? That is, if you want me emailing you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> THATS ENOUGH, GO HELP SOMEONE ! THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD NOW THAT NEED OUR SUPPORT. I will not waste my time no longer in defending anyone with the right to free speech. Or bickering who needs to be here or not. We are all here for a reason, I'm going to find mine! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this thread has caused you to waste time or prevented you from helping people...who's choice was that? You give away your own power when you blame others....so I hope you do go find yours...it's far healthier than yelling.

Star here is my email. We can go private, if you like! Please email me. mbsunnyd@yahoo.com
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

okay gio,

I DO truly understand that....and it's easy for me to forget that you ladies really don't know me or what my normal style of posting is. I've never been called either insensitive or robotic...in fact the criticism I usually get is for being too "nice".

Thank your for coming back and explaining...it helps alot. I will do my best to try not to be more approachable....it's just been hard to do with so many misunderstandings about who I am and what kind of agenda I have. I've been here so long....most people already know what my agenda is...and so it's been pretty confusing here with all these strange acusations flying around. I have a long history here for anyone who's willing to investigate that...and I hope you do.

I've dedicated a substantial amount of time to helping this board, so it's pretty disheartening for me to be accused of things that are so far from my intent that I am just flabberghasted.

I'm going to chalk that up to the high emotions and continue not to take offense because that won't help this situation. And I'm going to continue to try and help you guys put together some resources that will help you rather than just relying only on "similar" perspectives.

Thanks again.

Hey finding, I'll be right back, I'm gona check for something..

Star your right, I wasted my time and in the mean time let someone down that needed me. So Its my fault and I do learn. I still have a question for you so I mean it, email me. Oh and I really wasnt shouting but going from window to window at work, I do forget my caps are on, my bad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Starfish-- I know what you mean.

Its just like anyone here - whether OW/BS -- they WISH you could know what a great person they are, etc etc.. but you only get a small slice on the boards. It is SO easy to generalize and to make assumptions based on very little.

I know what it is like to be accused of being someone that in your heart, and "in real life" that you are not! I am the most accepting, loving and fun gal in real life-- I was trying to explain many times that HERE is the only place I can let out some UGLY... in real life I have this reputation to uphold - at home- at work- being this sweet, fun socialite type... and it it IS very hard many days cause I don't feel that way all the time anymore,...I don't always have what it takes to make people laugh anymore...

BUT here... I can be whoever I feel I am that day or what have you... I CANNOT do that in my life..........

We all need to be heard and understood.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Its just like anyone here - whether OW/BS -- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this is one of my pet peeves. There are more than just OW and BS here. There are us WS as well, who fit neither category.

That is exactly what I just mentioned on the other thread autumnday!! We can't forget, in this "General Welcome" thread or whatever it is,,to NOT forget we have many FWS's here! Their input and voice is VERY necessary on this thread!!

Thank you Nerly, I appreciate that a lot!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

However, I admit my post was rather whiny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I think we can all stand to benefit from one another, as long as we can, A) Dispense good common sense, marriage-building-based advice. And B) Get past the labels, especially since many of us are FORMER whatever our label is. To me the labels are more a point of reference, not something that defines whether we are capable of currently giving and/or receiving good, solid MB advice.

At the risk of sounding too whiny again, I'll shut up for a bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

Yes, AD, yes! You are greeat and I SURELY did not mean to leave you out- most (if not all) of the women here are FOW/FWS, etc etc... I did not mean anything - just a "typo" of sorts! LOL!

Oh God, gio--now I feel really stupid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I wasn't trying to say, "hey, look at me, over here, don't forget about me...". There are all sorts of different people on here in the process of recovering their M, that's all I wanted to point out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

edited to say: I forgot one thing, (and since I'm obviously not shutting up), we who are the FWS have not only been the benefactors of such great advice here, but have also been known to give some pretty decent advice once in awhile, (and even to BW), too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong> Jm

NO Sweat!!

I just figured that you could explain it..but like I said... it doesn't really matter. And your response doesn't come to a huge surprise to me. I figure you would say something like that...

I mentioned it only b/c you were inviting people over to your board.. I just wonder why you bother...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't invite people - I invited YOU. To repost whatever it is that you seem to want to get out. And I didn't know that I'd become so predictable. I'll have to work on that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok,

I have read this entire thread and my first thought is what a waste of time by people that have some serious problems to be addressed.

In case you are interested, I have no OC issues. I have no affair issues, and further I am a male. Now it seems odd to me that this particular portion of MB has evolved to what it is right now. With your permission permit me to offer you some history.

A long time ago MB was one single spot to post and everyone posted on that board. That included OW/w OC, WS/wOC, BS/about to have an OC in their lives. Given the activity on this site it was broken up into different main subject themes. But, still the people involved with OC issues felt they wanted a theme for themselves because of the lack of sensitivity of some posters. So MB created one, however, it was NOT just for women, or BS women with OC, or BS men with OC issues, or WS men or women.

It was to be a place where ANYONE with an interest in these issues could come and talk about them, it used to include men as well. Now I see that it does not. I find that sad because I know especially given the apparent popularity of the ToW site there are W's getting pregnant in affairs.

Over the years there have been many influencial posters here, and one of them was a man named "K". I will find his story if anyone is interested, but that man influenced me in such a profound way because he had a view of things thanks to months of counseling with Steve Harley that just blew me away. He viewed his W becoming pregnant with OM's child as an OPPORTUNITY. Yes that is right an OPPORUNITY to rebuild his marriage, and he did. IT has not been easy, his W has had medical issues and others, but that little kid is being raised in a loving family and his father loves him in a special way. I believe the little boy is now about 5 years old.

I became a poster on the MB site because of the posts of a lady pregnant with OM's child and it touched me in a very deep way.

What bothers me now is that I don't see the MB principles being used or discussed and yet I know they are profoundly powerful ESPECIALLY in the case of an OC. K's story was one of many that used to set the tone on this particular part of MB, and the tone was one of doing the best to rebuild the marriage and then doing what the individual couples felt was the best for the OC.

I don't sense that tone now, and it saddens me. I just see a bunch of women arguing about things that are NOT as important as helping another person deal with the traumatic events following an affair with the added complication of a CHILD being born into the situation.

Don't you all think it is time to step back a moment and think about how you could help each other, what you need to help you, and how the child in each case could be best helped? All of the arguing, the misinterpretations, the general wrangling, is not helping anyone, and this site is about helping other people, and in the process yourself.

I'll leave you all again, but please think deeply about this and if anyone is interested in K's story, I'll find it for you if some of the other oldies don't. There really is another way to address these issues and that is with grace, kindness, and care. Lord knows these quantities are needed in these situations.

God Bless,

JL