Thanks Pepperband, but no need to apologize, he really was a loser. No need to sugarcoat those lying cheating ba*#**....I Don't think I need the book, believe me I have learned from my mistakes,plus that was the first loser I had ever dated, they were usually good guys. I have since been dating and if I even think they don't measure up to my standards, I'll drop them like a bad habit.

Oh and Delean I apologize for the way I worded my first post, it was a bit insensitive. I just know how miserable I was choosing to stay with my ex after he cheated on me. I can't understand why you choose to deal with two oc so I wonder how you cope.

(((sigh))) I just love defending myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No worries, xAx. Do not think I've asked the same questions of myself.

First off: 1 ongoing a. Not a series of a's. There is a difference in the nature of the sin. Not a lot of difference in the grander scheme of life, but it's still a difference.

My dwh is a broken person. No, I don't think I can fix him, but he is in a process to fix himself. Will he? I dunno. Do I owe it to 7 years of a HAPPY marriage (and 3 years of confusion on my part) to stay to see? I think so. Do I owe it to ALL the children to try. Yes. I think so. Do I have a breaking point?...dern skippy, and it gets closer sometimes - today, it's farther away than it was 2 weeks ago.

You've no idea the abilities or capacities of yourself till put in a position to prove them. I hope to God no one has to prove them, but they are there.

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> for why he stood by my side I don't know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's unfathomnable, no? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Do not question it. It is like asking, "Why is space a vaccum?" There is no good, easy answer till you meet with God. It just is.

There are things you learn from this...things you are taught by going through life. Whether or not you choose to learn from them or cry "woe is me" is purely up to you. The first is, don't make all encompassing statements, it'll only go badly to prove you wrong - ie:

1. That ship is unsinkable
2. The world is flat
3. It'll never snow here (said in 1988 in Austin, TX - Dec. 1989 - SNOW - UGH!)
4. I'd never stay if he____ (fill in the blank)

Yes, I hurt....dwh is in a horrible amount of pain (of his own making). If he learns from this, maybe he'll be a better person (as am I) for it. I made vows to God and to him and to myself to try. It is hard. It is MY path, not yours - unless your feet are upon the same path, or you have some kind of training that might help me, your words hold no real meaning because MY path is as unfathomnable for you as yours is to me...you do have my support for your choices, I only expect the same in return.

Yes, your first post was a little lambasting, but I thank you for your apology...tho unnecessary. I am used to the double takes and, "say whats???" about my life's story. I am also very innured to the, "If it were me, I'd have booted his butt to the curb." The only real answers to your queries and comments are, "Thank God it's not you - right now, thank Him. It's harder than you even dare to imagine, but there are things/reasons to stay that make it more than worthwhile."

Nio is my hearts own true love. Is there someone else out there that could be? Probably (I'm totally nummy - lmao). But there are more good reasons to stay with him than to leave (for right now...ask me again in 2 weeks how I feel - this journey is nothing, if not curvy and trecherous).

- Kimmy

I understand we should not judge a person until we've walked a mile in their shoes, but I have tried the shoe on and it really sucks. I feel for you Dealen-de I really do, but honestly the path ecord your husband has whether he has had an affair with one or 7 OW I still don't see too much hope. Maybe I'm just being negative, but obviously I don't carry much hope for the male race lol. I guess good luck with your Marriagebuilding, but don't give it too long, don't waste away your life in hope that he's going to change. Not that your life is miserable now, but I'm sure it could be so much better with that heavy burden off your shoulders. Just keep praying, God will show you what he has in store for you and what he wants for you.

Who's to say it'd be better without him?

There are no gimmies in life. None. The only true gimmie is the Word. I count on no man. My only faith is just that, faith.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't waste away your life in hope that he's going to change. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is subjective. Hope is not. You may see it as a waste, I may see it as something more to be learned...about Nio, about me, but nothing is lost in the learning. Time....time well spent in learning is never wasted, imo.

Nio was not like this before he broke. CHANGE happened. If it happened once, who's to say it won't again? It's up to him, no? CHANGE and reactions to changes happen no matter what....it can be good, it can be bad, but nothing is ever the same. I am not the same as the day I took my vows (both times - cute, loving story Nio and I have, really), who's to say that he won't look at me and my changes and not be happy with them?

Doormat? (snort) I take less offense to that and more offense to the wasting time comment...hehe! (I'm really not offended. The only offensive question is the one unasked)

Looking back at my life, I will honestly be able to say I gave it my best and my all.......the ball is squarely in his court now. We will see.

There is too much too be lost right now by walking away. If the scale tips the other way, who knows what I'll do. The pain is worth the gain right now. Really and truly. If the converse was true, I'd have a way different story.

My new fav quote: The juice is worth the squeeze.

My gooodness woman you see everything as roses don't you? I used to be like that too, until my roses were stomped on.

.......the ball is squarely in his court now. We will see.

Why is it up to him, he's the one who messed up, you call the shots.

You say Nio is hurting now, was he hurting after the first OC as well, cause now there is two. So let me get this straight you think he's finally learning his lesson right? Sorry I am agitated at your husband, not you. It seems as though we as people sometimes mistake kindness for weakness hmm. I know in MB your not supposed to LB, but has your husband seen your mean bone yet? Does he know that dammnit you will survive with out him if need be? Cause you will, you know that right?

Totally LOL @ the juicy squeeze comment, if I may paraphrase!

Funny, Advent started yesterday & our word for the week which the first lit candle represents is HOPE.

That IS what this season is all about. Kimmy, I've no doubt that you are NOT wasting your time. As you said, it is never a waste. HAving dreams that don't come true are not a waste......it's the fun in the dreaming that counts.

I am soooo cynical(or maybe it's jsut my 'realistic' nature) now but I try not to let it rub off on those I love. I don't want to discourage my ktbunch or anyone from dreaming & hoping. I still hold onto MY secret dreams.

And this applies to a marriage as well, rocky or not. I have heard, read & known of sooooooo many LOST & hopeless marriages be reborn that it's not even funny! But it's true.

I hold my own marriage as living proof. I thought, "if MY marraige could be saved & reborn w/ this OC crap thrown in.....ANYBODY'S can" then I met marriages in WORSE shape than my own & also being restored. I don't believe it can happen w/o God, if truth be told.

The Bible says, NOTHING is impossible w/ God....I don't doubt it one bit. I don't 'feel' it w/ the emotiional part of me I believe it w/ the logical intillectual part of me. Does that make sense?

I just KNEW my marraige was hopeless. My dreams had been shattered & totally destroyed. And I thought, if MY marraige can't make it, if MY H could cheat on me then who else is? How many other people are living lies? How many other men are sitting in my church living a lie? Maybe God is a lie. I was about to go hope-broke.

Then the light went on-----& I realized----who the heck am I? Aren't I living a lie myself? Aren't we all? So yah, WHO am I?

I KNOW there is nothing lost in hope. NOTHING. But oh so much to gain. So you dream big & it doesn't happen--does that mean you stop dreaming? OR maybe you can try harder to make it happen. Who knows?

What's to lose if you just go balls out & it doesn't work out? SO what? To me-it's ALL about LOVE. Not the wishy washy feeling but the real kick @$$ VERB that holds the key.

Kimmy, you know what that is & you aren't afraid.

So xAx thinks she made a bad choice in a man----yah maybe BUT if you hadn't........you would not have your angelbaby. There is always a lesson to learn. YOU changed so why not anyone else?

My H & I both were a bunch of immature losers...well, I wasn't a loser but...anyhoo we were pretty lost. I was sooo miserable that I used to HOPE he WOULD cheat so that I could get a D, get out of the marraige & NOT look bad. HOW CRAZY IS THAT?

Oh---& then it really happened? Of course it was when I wasn't feeling like that anymore!

If I had not stuck around--------I would not be married to the man my H IS TODAY. He is totally the man of my DREAMS that I was even afraid to dream about for fear that 'he' did not exist. HE is a man I totally ADMIRE, (which I never did before). I trust him w/ my soul much less my body & my babies. (not w/ my deodarant though! LOL eeewwwe!)

Is he perfect? puuuhleeze! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But is he perfect for me? You better believe it!!!!!

There are reasons for marraige VOWS & they aren't to be taken lightly. MArriage is NOT for the faint @ heart.

I'm rambling I know..but there is just no need to lose HOPE ---EVER! We learn to make beter choices & decisions but no need to lose HOPE.

Kimmy, xAx, whoever & anyone----you can hope as long as you want & that does not make you weak or a loser. It means you have faith in somthing bigger than yourself.

I think, HOPE is a risk & you can't fully LIVE or LOVE w/o risk. We are always so afraid of getting hurt so we hold back & then we can't fully enjoy or feel the fullness of our selves.

It's like......you might be afraid of the slide & w/ good reason, you might fall over the edge, it is pretty high-but you know what-if you don't climb to the top & go down, you will never know how it almost feels like flying!

Or the first time you jump off the swings when your so high you can almost swear you are gonna go right over the bar. Yah you end up coming down on the sand--every mother's nightmare-- but do you see the rush & look in the eye of the kid who just jumped the highest? And most of the time---they NEVER get hurt!!!

Or how 'bout the time you finally took the ladder ALL the way to the top of the high dive. It's sooooo scary from way up there. ANd it grows higher w/ each step. You're higher than the building! But the feeling you get when you cannon ball right into the DEEP end----what a thrill! (I know kimmy would NEVER cannon ball/belly flop but dive gracefully in hanh?) Yah you might belly flop sometimes--but so what? It heals! LOL
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Sorry.....Yah...maybe I am getting to philisophical & mushy w/ this post....sorry......maybe I am over-dosing ont eh Christmas Spirit-but I say............HEY! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think you get my point.

Long post just to say......change IS possible-I've seen it happen.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ooo
xxx
kt


It's the MOST wonderful time of the year!

No xAx, I dont' think kimmy has ANY doubt that she could make it w/o Nio. LOL

ALthough, half her heart might be missing...???

And anyway------I think she is strong enough to know that this is something she WANTS & she is willing to fight for it in whatever way she deems necessary & to bow out if need be as well.

Kimmy, forgive me for speaking for you as I know you don't need anyone answering for you.

Nice post KT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> One must always hope, but God also says do not put your hope in man.

Hmm judging by what you've read about what my ex has done to me (read earlier posts) would you think of me as in idiot if I got back with him? Let me give some more insight, he used to smoke weed daily as well (didnt know when I fell in love with him) now since our breakup he stopped smoking, hasnt gotten an attitude and supposedly has stopped talking to the girl and broke down and cried like a baby when i told him I went on a date. So he's changed for a bit, do you think I would be an idiot if I got back with him? I do, and my friends and family would too. I wished for nothing more than to be together with the father of my child, but I cannot not be with or love someone who makes a fool out of me.

Your right, my hope was not in man, God did all the work, H & I were just willing participants.

I wouldn't think you were an idiot but only you would know if it was too soon to trust your X & that would tell whether that would be a wise decision or not. kwim?

Being hopeful does not mean you don't have boundaries or keep your guard up for a time & a season.

How many women go right back to a guy @ the first sign or promise of 'change' w/o anything to back it up? That is where it all starts to fall apart.

It's about taking care of your child first, which is getting yourself in a healthier frame of mind & taking it from there.

Your child's father would have a lot of work to do to PROVE he had changed. Then there is that little thing called 'commitment' which includes a ring & a date! LOL

Then you go from there.

Just like you would need to PROVE that you are a stronger & healtheir individual as well. How? By not putting up w/ bad behavior from anyone. Staying strong & sticking to your boundaries. kwim?

I was also very young when I had my first & H & I first got married. I can relate to that aspect. Looking back-we both had A LOT of growing up to do.

WE were in a bit of denial over that. I was more mature (than H) but still only 19 w/ baby & H to deal w/. New inlaws that I barely knew! whew! Talk about crazy. WE had no idea who we were much less who we were meant to be to each other.

It's kinda wierd when you are up all night w/ baby & friends are up all night partying, or you are living on your own w/ H & friends are w/ parents & a curfew! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> kwim?

You think you know so much @ every age you are & the younger you are the more you think you know. But as you get older....the more you realize how much you don't know! LOL
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I'm only 31 now w/ 12 years of marraige, 3 kids, & 1 OC (H)...........I think I am too young to have gone through this much already! @ the rate I'm going, I figure I should know EVERYTHING by the time I'm 45!!!! LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One must always hope, but God also says do not put your hope in man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again this is what I wrote"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are no gimmies in life. None. The only true gimmie is the Word. I count on no man. My only faith is just that, faith.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes God has to remind me that this is his business I'm doing and to please give it back...but my hope is in Him to work on Nio, if He uses me as a tool to hammer the point home, I'm there for Him. My vows were as much to Him as they were to Nio and the world.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You say Nio is hurting now, was he hurting after the first OC as well, cause now there is two. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it up to him, he's the one who messed up, you call the shots.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you ever seen someone in a deep depression? Someone who has totally lost their Way - who've taken a different Path than God wished for them? That is Nio - it has been Nio for about 3 years (since his mother died and he began the A). Seriously, you do know that depression is an illness, right? That it works by firing certain chemicals in your brain, and by having those chemicals released on a constant, steady basis creates a habitual firing of those chemicals so that the brain is in constant stress mode. That IS my husband. He is only now learning how a body deals with stress and what steps he can take to alleviate it. His body is being litterally eaten up by the stress. He is also a comfort eater. When he stresses, he eats, he gains weight. Also an illness, also a toll on a body. It is a vicious circle...depression, bad decisions that begets more depression that begets more bad decisions that begets........

I was listening during the sickness and health part. Because the illness is in his brain does not make it less an illness. Can I make him well? No. But I can be there for him when he takes the steps to make himself better.

Depression causes "normal" people to make horrible decisions for themselves. Really. Ask my bio dad...oh wait, you can't. Because in HIS depression, he shot himself. But he should've known better, right? He was a psychotherapist who worked on a suicide hotline....but no. Depression ate at his brain, till the world looked like a desolate and lonely place.

This is not an excuse. This is something that I understand and take into consideration when weighing my pros and cons regarding my husband.

To answer your question: It is up to him, because it is not in MY power to fix him. Only HE can make the changes necessary in his life to get better. I cannot force him to see a doc or therapist. I've done my work. I'm here for him and God is here for him....it's up to him to do his part. I cannot force him to make good decisions. I can watch and see if he's doing so, though...and make my own decisions regarding our life together accordingly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I understand we should not judge a person until we've walked a mile in their shoes, but I have tried the shoe on and it really sucks. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought about this comment a lot last night. While I agree that you might've slipped on my galoshes for a brief moment, I'll have to tell you that your situation and mine are TOTALLY different. I've known Nio for 10 years. 7 of those VERY, EXCEEDINGLY happy. When his mother died, Nio hit rock bottom...and he is only now climbing out of that pit. Will he get out completely? I don't know, but I'm here with a rope, ready to help.


- Kimmy

Kind of off topic, but not really. One thing that keeps pressing in my mind is FORGIVENESS. And, since other's have already brought up The Word, well, who has given the ultimate forgiveness? And for MUCH worse than our respective WS's have done to us! And, there was NEVER a limit on how many times, in fact, even with the verse of "70 x 7" was just a figure! You are to forgive as many times as you are asked!

One other thing, when the bible does talk of D, yes it does say that infidelity is an acceptable reason for D, but that is AFTER you have tried EVERYTHING to save your M! In fact, the way I see it, if there is to be a D, then the one doing the betraying should be the one to file! And, before anyone tries to discredit what I'm saying, I know from first hand experience, as my H has had MULTIPLE A's, and we are still together!

It's not and easy thing to deal with, no matter WHAT side you are on, but if you just remember what Christ has done for us, it makes it easier to see the end of the tunnel!

As a WS, it is VERY difficult to forgive myself, as it is for the majority of those who are WS's. Many times, that's what ends up causing the most trouble! Heck, I was willing to walk away from my kids because of the guilt of the pain that I had caused to so many!

So, having been TOGETHER for 19 yrs, and married almost 16, I can say that it is worth trying to save, even if the WS isn't trying. At least then you can say that YOU tried, right? As for any time limit, well, that is, AS ALWAYS, on a case by case basis. But, to just give up RIGHT AWAY, you haven't even tried, right?

Having been on this forum for over 4 years, I can say that the majority of those who used the principles from this site were able to save their M's and are in a much happier place than they used to be. Even if the WS wasn't willing to read or "use" those principles, they actually were using them in reality! I recommend re-reading the principles and seeing how you can apply them to your M. Re-read the books you already have and/or buy/read some that you haven't! These techniques have been developed over MANY years, and with MANY couples in MANY different situations! Give them time to work first before jumping right to the D.

Ok, done with my lecture! I hope that many of you who are very new to this situation, or have been around, but are ready to give up, can look at this site and find the help that they need!

God Bless all your M's!

Tigger

Morning guys...

First I'll respond to KT's post. When I first came here I was engaged to my childsfather, but the posters here thought I'd be a fool if I married someone who I knew has it in him to cheat, since he had. So yeah I had the ring, just didn't have the commitment, and as I see first hand marriage isn't much but a piece of paper.

Kimmy: Depression? I know a little bit of how it works, but isn't that like me saying oh my ex cheated on me because he came from a bad home and has lots of issues because he does. It still sounds like your making excuses any way you put it. He did a bad thing plain and simple and he did it again. In his heart he knew. So you didn't exactly answer my question. He didn't learn his lesson after the first OC, what makes you think after the second OC he is learning his lesson. He knows he got away with it.

(double)

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Dealan-de ]</small>

Again, Angel, you are only seeing one teeny, tiny speck in our marriage. You have a microscope focused on one very hard time in our lives instead of looking through the macroscope to see the whole shebang.

I see the whole picture. I see the 5 gagillion little good things intertwined with the few bad things and weigh the two.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He didn't learn his lesson after the first OC, what makes you think after the second OC he is learning his lesson. He knows he got away with it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In this statement you are making an assumption about my husband based on looking at our lives through a microscope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Depression? I know a little bit of how it works, but isn't that like me saying oh my ex cheated on me because he came from a bad home and has lots of issues because he does. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it's not. It's a KNOWN and ACKNOWLEDGED disease. It's treatable through meds. It is something that you go to the doctor for. It is also something that must be taken into consideration when making life altering decisions regarding my marriage. Was he always depressed? No. Is depression a treatable/fixable thing? Yes. Those answers are on my decision scale.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He did a bad thing plain and simple and he did it again. In his heart he knew. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you honestly think that? There is no room in your mind to look at it through a series of events instead of funnelling it down to such a simple explaination? It is not that simple.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He didn't learn his lesson after the first OC, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What lesson? That the OW was manipulating him? No, he didn't learn it. That what he was doing was wrong? He did know it, but he also "felt" in love with OW - as well as in love with me. This was AFTER he realized what he was doing - after he became sober. He was caught in a oroborous loop, never ending that he could see. There are a million little lessons we learned, and a million more with #2.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He knows he got away with it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That one sticks in my craw. Sorry Angel. You cannot possibly make that assumption. He's gotten away with nothing. He made choices and God called him on them. Twice. I would like to know what exactly he got away with? Tell me what you see that he got away with. Please? He got a wife that he adores that cries periodically (literally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) because it does hurt, no matter how you look at it, and he knows he's the cause of the tears and fear. He lost his in-laws, the only set of parents he had left. He lost respect at work. OW calls to harangue him and tell him he's betrayed her. He has two babies with her that quite possibly could end up just like her - on welfare and in the 'jects of SAT. He has lost my son's respect - a boy he raised as his own. He will have to face our two children someday when they ask him questions about their siblings. He has lost financially and emotionally. And he has to live with it. All of these issues plague him on a daily basis. I know, because we talk of it. What gain in all this loss do you see?

The only bright spots in this mess are the kids. All of them. They are proof that God will take your bad choices and make the best He can out of them.

And yes, if you only concentrate on the thorns in life, you miss the roses. I CHOOSE to concentrate on the roses. It is a hard path. But it's not without it's own beauty.

Tig-

Forgiveness is a harder word to DO than to say. I've learned that lesson very well....

- Kimmy

The human spirit is nearly impossible to kill.

Kimmy I'm beginning to see yours just might....

Have you acknowledged yet that what your husband did was WRONG! So far the picture you've given me of this man is that he is some sort of gold covered saint, who is depressed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Is your husband still in contact with the OW, well I guess that's a dumb question on my part. They do have two children together. Do you really want to deal with that the rest of your life? Have that worry? Well I know you don't want that but are you prepared to live the rest of your life like that, because if you don't start looking at the "future" picture that's what you have in store for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you acknowledged yet that what your husband did was WRONG! So far the picture you've given me of this man is that he is some sort of gold covered saint, who is depressed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Um, you've not read my journal or my posts? I am -- acerbic sometimes...I'm a smart a$$ from a long line of smart a$$es. Nio's been more on the recieving end of it. He is no saint....snort...and maybe the picture here is golden (I really don't think so...I think it paints him in rather a pathetic light), but he's pissed me the hell off more than once, and he must make amends. The amends I'm demanding of him are that he FIX HIMSELF.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They do have two children together. Do you really want to deal with that the rest of your life? Have that worry? Well I know you don't want that but are you prepared to live the rest of your life like that, because if you don't start looking at the "future" picture that's what you have in store for you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The future...well, it'll come. Yes, I know I'm stuck with OW for awhile. If you've read my posts, though, you know that once we move, we will be filing for custody of the children. Read my journal (tho, I've been sorely neglectful of it lately). You'll see the reasons why we feel it'd be best, I'm sure. But once done, I think the OW will limit her contact with us. She already feels betrayed by him....what's she gonna feel about us having the kids.......I don't even know a word for it.

Nio is not some white knight. To quote Buzz:

You are sad, strange little man.

Someday, I pray he'll be a "happy, strange little man." LOL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by XangelX:
<strong> Morning guys...

First I'll respond to KT's post. When I first came here I was engaged to my childsfather, but the posters here thought I'd be a fool if I married someone who I knew has it in him to cheat, since he had. So yeah I had the ring, just didn't have the commitment, and as I see first hand marriage isn't much but a piece of paper.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This last line is so insulting to married people everywhere.

But I think it shows your lack of experience & maturity level so I won't take it personally.

You say it yourself you didn't have the COMMITTMENT so how what would make you think it's 'just a piece of paper'? It's the commitment behind the paper & you didn't have it.

The COMMITMENT to try your hardest, when things are ruff, to work it out. The commitment to love your spouse fully, strengths AND weaknesses. The commitment to turn around & face your own weakenessess & beg forgiveness & the commitment to do al that is necessary to try & repair the damage you are responsible for creating. The commitment to face the consequences TOGETHER.
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A fool to marry someone who 'has it in them to cheat'??? Do you honestly believe that YOU DON'T have it in you to cheat? We are ALL capable of anything & the ones who swear they aren't are living a life of false arrogance and are even more susceptable.
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Having a BOYFRIEND who cheats on you is WAY different than having a SPOUSE who cheats on you. They are NOT the same thing.
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And that whole 'depression' thing...yah, you really can't know unless you are the one in it & even then it is harder to recognize when you are IN it.

I always thought 'depression' was just some psycho-babble-mumbo-jumbo crap. UNTIL it hit me. I am one of the most logical, level headed people, not hyper-sensitive, not overly emotional & here I was literally going crazy. Not until I was in the midst of my own depression did I realize the severity of the 'disorder' or whatever you want to call it. It's not black & white as you seem to think.

You can't think straight, you are literally contemplating choices & decisions that are totally crazy but seem logical to yourself. Then you get some medication & you realize how insane it was. You have the same situations on your hands but now your brain is working properly & you can think straight.

Everyone is different. Everyone's marraige works differently.

How many people grow up in circumstances that they swear they will never repeat or do & then--suddenly they wake up & realize they have done the exact opposite & turned into the exact thing they vowed never to be?

It's like the addict. They KNOW the drugs are wrong but they keep going back right? To us, the non-addicts it makes NO sense what so ever but to the one caught up in it---it's as if they have no choice in it.

A are very much like addictions by the way. There may be no chemical dependency but there is plenty of emotional dependency.

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Tigger is also right about forgiveness. When you can learn to give & practice forgiveness it can open up whole new worlds. Forgiveness does not mean that you allow yourself to be treated badly over & over again. But to be willing to not hold the offense against the offender.

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sincerely,
kt

When I said marriage is not much but a piece of paper I meant through most people's eyes, not mine. I value the sanctity of marriage. I was raised catholic and try to follow the ways as best as I can. I made the mistake of having a child without being married, but believe me I tried to make it right, I suppose that's why I believed his lies. I was commited to making my family work, but after awhile I was starting to look like a fool, and was no longer credible, so I squashed that. I can honestly say this, since I've severed that relationship I have matured and grown spiritually more than I ever did when I was with him.

One thing though, before you guys jump on me, your preaching to the wrong person sisters, because sounds to me like it's your husbands who need it lectured into them.

KT I disagree with you on this statement:

A fool to marry someone who 'has it in them to cheat'??? Do you honestly believe that YOU DON'T have it in you to cheat? We are ALL capable of anything & the ones who swear they aren't are living a life of false arrogance and are even more susceptable.

If you had not been cheated on, you would not be saying this. I believe your saying this, because like Kimmy you kind of paint the ugly picture alittle bit better because it happened to you. That's just like saying we have it in us to kill, try drugs,yada yada. Doesn't mean we are going to do it.

But you guys don't really understand where I am coming from. What could a 22 year old possibly know about life right.

Actually, you probably know quite a lot...but there is still much to learn. I know a lot more than I did at 22, but not as much as I'll know at 50. I shan't preach it to you. It's up to you how much you absorb.

Suffice to say you are not an expert in this field and neither am I - tho I DO have more of an insight on this particular subject of my life with Nio than you do. Doesn't mean we can't learn together.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's it, I am convinced you do not have a mean bone in your body Kimmy lol.

I see what your doing. Your killing me with kindness....**I'm melting...I'm melting" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Yes life is a learning process, we never stop learning. While I wish I had never gone through what I have, or been wronged, I am so grateful I went through it now. I have not been in your pool, but I have put my foot in. If you've ever read my very first posts on MB, you would know that my childsfather got the other girl pregnant (she aborted). I have felt those awful feelings. I went through the crying, loss of appetite, feeling of hopelessness, the feeling that I was going to become my worst nightmare, another statistic; a single mother. I don't wish those feelings on anyone. It has been 1 yr and a half since the worst of it, and I still breathe a sigh of relief that it is over with, and I don't feel those feelings anymore.