In this specific case, we're talking about an OW, who conceived a child with a MM, and continues to muscle him in every way she can to get more money out of him. He's NOT an ATM. THAT is what burns me up.

Maybe I read wrong but the original post stated that the OW was trying to get to the money that should have been paid to her in cash for the last two years. That is why she was trying to get the xMM to sign the saving bonds so that she could use the cash as the law sees fit for her to use. That is not trying to use him as an ATM.

As far as her threatening to take him back to court or through the AG's office, this would be a very valid and reasonable path for her to take if Yelodazee and her H had refused to sign over the savings bonds. She has not been able to use the money as she needed.

Also if the noncustodial parent was downsized as many have been in the past 2-3 years, that person also has the option of going back to court to ask for a reduction in child support. That's fair.

Well the papers said the money was to be paid by December 31 of each year, x amt of dollars. There were no stipulations as to how it was to be paid, he chose a savings bond hoping she would put it away for future use. She is the one who gave the child our last name on the birth certificate, but chose to wait nine months to request a paternity test and cs, in my opinion that is her loss, and we shouldn't have to compensate her $7000 for nine months. I don't have a problem with her spending the money on a car note, but in 3 years she has had five very expensive cars, she is going from car to car and we are floating the note, I understand she needs a mode of transportation, but she doesn't need an elaborate $700 a month car note either! and that is the problem I have with the car note issue. H is going to cash the savings bond on Monday and give her a cashier's check, we will make a copy of the savings bond as proof she was paid accordingly and on time, as far as the court ordered documents go. And she is also the one who wrote in her own handwriting that she accepted the savings bond as form of back cs. If the court ordered the money to be paid in yearly installments and H has done that and he pays her cs biweekly, deducted from his check, how can she do anything? He is not behind or delinquint. Then ow told h if he didn't do what she wanted and sign the bonds, she would call me and tell me everything? like what else is there to tell? and that she would have all of hte back cs, held out of his check immediately! This inferiorates me that she has this much control over my life!!!

Also does anyone know this, H hasn't made as much past few years, but we are not talking about a significant difference, not enough to go back to court over. The cs waas set three years ago, I know in TX when determining cs they also consider the other children you have at home, since cs was set we have had another child. H told ow she better leave well enough alone b/c if they went back to court, it might result in her payments being lowered, ow told h, her payemnts could never be lowered she would always be guaranteed this amount. Does anyone know if this is true?
Thanks so much for all of you input, I really feel better about the whole issue.
Yelodazee

Wow Stormy where the heck did you come from? All you said to her was really "common sense".

Star, I think what cheerful was talking about was only CS and nothing else that would go with a D with a married couple. I totally understood her post as I understood betryated post what she said and it was addressing what she said. Although I see what your saying, when it comes to cs nothing else like assets etc is considered when the couple is not married or sharing assets. I don't think she was putting JT down. She was just using her as an example. JT deserves what she is receiving. Betrayed was basically saying that ow are an atm machine and always going for more. This is not true in all cases. In most cases that I've seen. I really hope that this thread does not turn into a board war as it's a good thread. Just as Yelodazed is well aware of what is going on. I don't think they gave the savings bonds as a cruel thing but a thinking of OC's future. It's just that she is owed that money and it's now undertood how it works and why it works.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by yelodazee:
<strong> Also does anyone know this, H hasn't made as much past few years, but we are not talking about a significant difference, not enough to go back to court over. The cs waas set three years ago, I know in TX when determining cs they also consider the other children you have at home, since cs was set we have had another child. H told ow she better leave well enough alone b/c if they went back to court, it might result in her payments being lowered, ow told h, her payemnts could never be lowered she would always be guaranteed this amount. Does anyone know if this is true?
Thanks so much for all of you input, I really feel better about the whole issue.
Yelodazee </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yellowdazed it goes off a chart and I'm sorry I don't know that chart by heart. It depends on the difference. Also yes if the judge is determining another child it could mean at very least that your cs would be lowered by maybe 25.00 or 50.00. I can't say for sure as I don't know your personal business how much your talking about. I would go on a website that explains it better like where stormy sent you. They put in alot of factors though. In my state as well they figure in the other children, but in my case xmm does not have to help with daycare and he does have to pay 100% medical premiums (which is less than one week of daycare) and they did NOT factor in his kids for these reason.

You are exactly right, we gave her the savings bond, actually H did it by himself, hoping to start palnning oc college, just as we have started to plan for our own children. That is why I came here was to ask for advice on what to do, not to start an argument. I know there are alot of been there, done that here, that is why I am asking ofr your advice, H and I are new at this and lost. In one of the first few post someone said that is compensation for the months she didn't have cs and she should spend it how she wants because she spent her money then, that totally changed my opinion of it, I told H you can't controlhow she spends the monthly amt of cs, so who are you to say how she can spend back cs, that she has already used. I understand now, but I still can't go for the expensive car, you know how I feel about that, and I still don't think she should be compensated for time she chose not to tell h it was his child. From the time of paternity on I agree she should be paid. I guess this is so hard for me because I grew up in a divorced household, I was an only child, my dad had to pay my mom $150 a month cs, he very rarely paid at all and I saw my mom struggle to raise me without the money, which I know should make me more willing to think she deserves the money, and I'm not saying she doesn't I'm saying the money is for the child's needs and the child's best interest, I don't think a $700 a month new car note is in the child's best interest. As she told h when he said the money was for oc, she said the money is for her, ow, and oc. So go figure! Once again H did not get bond out of spite, he thought he was doing best interest of the child, whose mother replied what if she doesn't want to go to college why can't I have money now?

Yelodazzed, I totally agree with you. Let me tell you what I did when I got pregnant with xmm's child. I knew it was going to be another mouth to feed and that things were going to be tighter and he would not be helping out at first and I still had my two other kids to provide for. I had a really nice van at the time. Very roomy, had everything you could want. I got the tempature outside it told me which way I was going and I had more room than I could think of. My payment was high and as I was figuring out all I needed to budget I realized that although with a 3rd child I really did not need that much car or that high payment or the extra gas it took to drive it. (I drive alot with my job). So I traded that van in for a 4 door family car that was 200.00 less a month car payment and better on gas. I still had a few extras in the car for comfort but it came with the car I did not add it. I also found a cheaper condo to live in. I gave up a little space, but got in a nicer neighborhood (well I lived in a nice neightborhood before) but this is a newer one and because I'm in the business I found a great deal. But I have to agree with you about the car payment. If she could afford it that would be a different story. I have two other children and I want it to affect them the least as possible even though they do complain about the car at 6 years old <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .
I also agree that if she did not tell your husband about it that he should not have to pay until he was told. That is not fair. I also think that if you WERE NOT in the situation then you would feel differently if you heard it from someone else. You know? I have always said that we go off our experiences that we go through and that is what gives us the opinions of where we are at.
Also if oc does not want to go to college when he/she is older there is always other things like a down payment towards a home, or a wedding or anything.

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

like what else is there to tell? and that she would have all of hte back cs, held out of his check immediately! This inferiorates me that she has this much control over my life!!!

Trust me, they would not take ALL the back pay of his check. That is not allowed especially if it goes over a certain percentage of his check which in very extreme cases could only go up to 50%. What could happen though if he gets behind more than 12 weeks worth of support, Texas usually puts in an order to garnish tax refunds.

She is the one who gave the child our last name on the birth certificate, but chose to wait nine months to request a paternity test and cs, in my opinion that is her loss, and we shouldn't have to compensate her $7000 for nine months.

I take it she had a private attorney then. Sometimes when you go through the AG's office, it takes them some time to set up your case, get a court date and serve the non custodial parent. I dropped off my application for my first son less than a week after he was born and it took 5 months before we ever got offered mediation. And he had signed the BC so paternity wasn't an issue. So when it was all done, my ex started out owing 7 months worth of arrears. Now that was over 10 years ago and I have heard that they have gotten a little faster. Not much but some.

Also does anyone know this, H hasn't made as much past few years, but we are not talking about a significant difference, not enough to go back to court over. The cs waas set three years ago, I know in TX when determining cs they also consider the other children you have at home, since cs was set we have had another child. H told ow she better leave well enough alone b/c if they went back to court, it might result in her payments being lowered, ow told h, her payemnts could never be lowered she would always be guaranteed this amount. Does anyone know if this is true?

Each party has the right to go back every three years for a review. It can be done sooner if there have been dramatic changes in income levels that could either raise or lower the payments. But it is based on a chart and there are actually two ways to calculate when children are split up into several households. But be careful, because usually the view the children in the order they are presented to the court. So if you already had a child before the OC and then had another one afterwards, the OC will usually be viewed as child #2 and most judges would not lower support because of you having the third child. Don't want to upset you but the general argument is that your husband was already providing for 2 kids, so why should child #2 be penalized because he decided to have one more. Sad but true.

(The father of my first child is now responsible for providing for 6..yes..6 kids. My son was #3 presented before the court. Yet the other 3 presented later were much older. But because their moms waited, they are viewed as later kids. But try as he could, my ex and his lawyer could not make the judge lower the payments of the previous cases. So he is one of the few that I know that has 50% of his check taken out by his employer every pay day...and it still doesn't cover the full amount for any of the cases.)

§ 154.128. COMPUTING SUPPORT FOR CHILDREN IN MORE THAN
ONE HOUSEHOLD. (a) In applying the child support guidelines for
an obligor who has children in more than one household, the court
shall apply the percentage guidelines in this subchapter by making
the following computation:
(1) determine the amount of child support that would
be ordered if all children whom the obligor has the legal duty to
support lived in one household by applying the schedule in this
subchapter;
(2) compute a child support credit for the obligor's
children who are not before the court by dividing the amount
determined under Subdivision (1) by the total number of children
whom the obligor is obligated to support and multiplying that
number by the number of the obligor's children who are not before
the court;
(3) determine the adjusted net resources of the
obligor by subtracting the child support credit computed under
Subdivision (2) from the net resources of the obligor; and
(4) determine the child support amount for the
children before the court by applying the percentage guidelines for
one household for the number of children of the obligor before the
court to the obligor's adjusted net resources.
(b) For the purpose of determining a child support credit,
the total number of an obligor's children includes the children
before the court for the establishment or modification of a support
order and any other children, including children residing with the
obligor, whom the obligor has the legal duty of support.
(c) The child support credit with respect to children for
whom the obligor is obligated by an order to pay support is
computed, regardless of whether the obligor is delinquent in child
support payments, without regard to the amount of the order.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, § 1, eff. April 20, 1995.


§ 154.129. ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF COMPUTING SUPPORT FOR
CHILDREN IN MORE THAN ONE HOUSEHOLD. In lieu of performing the
computation under the preceding section, the court may determine
the child support amount for the children before the court by
applying the percentages in the table below to the obligor's net
resources:

(WARNING: This chart probably will not come out right but you can always go to the website to view it)

MULTIPLE FAMILY ADJUSTED GUIDELINES

(% OF NET RESOURCES)

Number of children before the court 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Number of 0 20.00 25.00 30.00 35.00 40.00 40.00 40.00
other 1 17.50 22.50 27.38 32.20 37.33 37.71 38.00
children for 2 16.00 20.63 25.20 30.33 35.43 36.00 36.44
whom the 3 14.75 19.00 24.00 29.00 34.00 34.67 35.20
obligor 4 13.60 18.33 23.14 28.00 32.89 33.60 34.18
has a 5 13.33 17.86 22.50 27.22 32.00 32.73 33.33
duty of 6 13.14 17.50 22.00 26.60 31.27 32.00 32.62
support 7 13.00 17.22 21.60 26.09 30.67 31.38 32.00


Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, § 1, eff. April 20, 1995.

But also take in consideration that they could use other factors to add or subtract from these guidelines as well:

§ 154.123. ADDITIONAL FACTORS FOR COURT TO
CONSIDER. (a) The court may order periodic child support
payments in an amount other than that established by the guidelines
if the evidence rebuts the presumption that application of the
guidelines is in the best interest of the child and justifies a
variance from the guidelines.
(b) In determining whether application of the guidelines
would be unjust or inappropriate under the circumstances, the court
shall consider evidence of all relevant factors, including:
(1) the age and needs of the child;
(2) the ability of the parents to contribute to the
support of the child;
(3) any financial resources available for the support
of the child;
(4) the amount of time of possession of and access to a
child;
(5) the amount of the obligee's net resources,
including the earning potential of the obligee if the actual income
of the obligee is significantly less than what the obligee could
earn because the obligee is intentionally unemployed or
underemployed and including an increase or decrease in the income
of the obligee or income that may be attributed to the property and
assets of the obligee;
(6) child care expenses incurred by either party in
order to maintain gainful employment;
(7) whether either party has the managing
conservatorship or actual physical custody of another child;
(8) the amount of alimony or spousal maintenance
actually and currently being paid or received by a party;
(9) the expenses for a son or daughter for education
beyond secondary school;
(10) whether the obligor or obligee has an automobile,
housing, or other benefits furnished by his or her employer,
another person, or a business entity;
(11) the amount of other deductions from the wage or
salary income and from other compensation for personal services of
the parties;
(12) provision for health care insurance and payment
of uninsured medical expenses;
(13) special or extraordinary educational, health
care, or other expenses of the parties or of the child;
(14) the cost of travel in order to exercise
possession of and access to a child;
(15) positive or negative cash flow from any real and
personal property and assets, including a business and investments;
(16) debts or debt service assumed by either party;
and
(17) any other reason consistent with the best
interest of the child, taking into consideration the circumstances
of the parents.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, § 1, eff. April 20, 1995.

(I know there is a lot of info involved by I always think it best for me to post directly from the statues so that others can see how they are written.)

You are exactly right, we gave her the savings bond, actually H did it by himself, hoping to start palnning oc college, just as we have started to plan for our own children. That is why I came here was to ask for advice on what to do, not to start an argument.

Yelodazee, don't worry. As you can probably tell by now, I have had extensive experience with the child support system of this great state of ours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <trying not to choke> I think your husband had a great idea. And this system is not the easiest to navigate. But I couldn't afford the lawyers so i had to learn to "play ball" the best way I could be researching and rereading this statues until they all started to make sense to me.

As far as spending habits go, yes I do know of some moms personally who would wait until the CS came in to go get their nails and hair done but their children went without school supplies and winter coats

As far as I go, if I can't get it at Wal-mart, its quite possible it just doesn't exist...or at least that is what I tell my kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So my budget is very low and I chose to spend money more on my kids to the point that I often go without stuff. How many of you know of other women who only have one pair of shoes and will wear them until they fall apart which makes her go get another pair. I splurged once at a Payless BOGO's sale and thought I was the cat's meow buying 4 pairs of shoes at once. What a freaking concept. Of course that was my allotment for the year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Or how about a woman who only buys one bra at a time. When it no longer supports me, it time to go buy another. And because of my size, finding a good bra under $40 isn't often on my radar.

Ok, I am rambling again. The point I was trying to make is that I too think $700 on a monthly car payment a bit outrageous. Now if it was a Ford F-350 King Ranch edition truck, you might have to let her slide. I mean quality costs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> Sorry apparently the hot toddy I am consuming is making me a bit wacky.

So Yelodazee, I'm glad that we were able to help you out with a different perspective. Just promise me that if I ever do make it to law school, you'll be the first person to hire me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Stormyweather ]</small>

Speaking of shoes.........oh man that was my weakness. I don't buy cheap shoes as I'm on my feet on the time and I need to breath in my shoes. I have not bought a pair of shoes in way over a year. Thank Goodness all my shoes are well made and last me. I love SHOES

Thank you so much for the advice, yes of course I would hire you! Give me a discount, Lord knows I will need it. As I stated before, H cannot get behind, the cs is automatically deducted from his check to I guess oag, unsure about where it goes but I definetly know it is directly deducted. He has held up his part of the agreement, by payin gher the money each year as directed, we have unitl 31st to pay 2004, and we have it ready, (I guess it won't be in form of savings bond, HA HA!) I must find humor in this or I won't make it! anyway he has held up his obligation,what can oag do if court order says it is yearly payments? Can they still garnish wages or tax returns, ow says yes, but she is a first hand liar, learned that the hard way. Anyway girls, I have finals to study for. I feel like you guys are family and I am glad I am here, it's nice to be able to talk to some people who are in the same boat and do not judge you! As for now I will sign off saying God is in control and i will leave it in His hands, I like to quote the serenity prayer, God grant me serentity to change the things I can, accept the things I can't and the wisdom to know the difference....Maybe that will become my motto, because I think He is telling me this is one of those things I need to learn the difference.
Yelodazee!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong>
Is CS a reward ?
Is CS something you work for ?
Is CS a merit badge for higher achievement ?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's "awarded" to the custodial parent through a court of law.

I will stand by my statement when I say I think the custodial parent deserves CS. They are raising these children on their own. CS will help take at least one stress factor away (finances) while the non-custodial parent still has to be responsible for the child they created- if not in a visitation/physical contact sense, then at least in caring for basic life needs.


Stafish,
I think it's great that JT recieves $2300 a month. What irritates me is when I see women get less than $1000 to care for an infant. Daycare alone in some states can be near $1,000. There's virtually nothing left to help pay for food, clothing (and babies grow fast!) or to help the parent out with basic needs such as the house payment, the electric bill or the car payment.

And regarding your statement about assets of the marriage- I agree with you. Unfortunately when xMM/H is paying his CS to the child he created with OW, the money does affect the W and children of marriage.
Contrary to your belief, I do not believe that the OC misses out. If the OW goes through the judicial system then there will be funds to help care for the child. Whether or not the father is present is irrelevent; the child will be loved regardless and male role models will be in the child's life- either through family, friends, neighbors, OW moving on and getting married or heck, even the "Big Brother" type organizations. Just as the xMM/H doesn't care about a child they have no contact with, I believe (based on experience) that the child will not care about a man who walked out on them either.

Yelowdazzed a thought this morning. Seeing that you don't have a attorney and you don't really trust ow. You or h type of something and have signiture lines on it for both your h and ow. When he hands her over all the money from the saving bonds have her sign it that your h has paid her to date x amount dollars for back cs etc. and that she agrees to it. Just to document what your doing and just in case she goes to the ag.

Cheerful,

I think it's great that JT recieves $2300 a month. What irritates me is when I see women get less than $1000 to care for an infant. Daycare alone in some states can be near $1,000.

I agree cheerful, but the problems with CS aren't specific to OWs....any single mother or divorced mother often has the same exact concerns. As you say, childcare is so expensive that any parent who finds themselves alone and working struggles with these same issues and a court system that attempts to provide something for chidren without being so burdensome on the non-custodial parent that they can live too. Add another pre-existing family and other chidren and it's never going to be fair. The only way to prevent this is for fathers/mothers to honor their marriage vows, not create children outside of that contract, and protect the children within it....because the reality of financial mayhem when that doesn't happen, ends up affecting innocents for the selfishness of adults.

There's virtually nothing left to help pay for food, clothing (and babies grow fast!) or to help the parent out with basic needs such as the house payment, the electric bill or the car payment.

I think the courts, in an effort to be fair, do expect the custodial spouse to also contribute to the cost of the child (when possible). So if CS is 1000, then matching those funds...is the responsibility of the custodial parent. Divorced mothers certainly use their job earnings as well as alimony or other forms of income to augment CS....they have to. An OW is expected to do the same, and really....if a father leaves his wife to marry the OW...the wife is in exactly the same boat. CS sucks...it sucks for everyone and it is rarely sufficient for raising children.

And regarding your statement about assets of the marriage- I agree with you. Unfortunately when xMM/H is paying his CS to the child he created with OW, the money does affect the W and children of marriage.

I do agree with you....it does affect them...but I think that's why CS payments aren't higher...the courts recognize that marital assets are jointly held, previous children are dependent as well, and so when using equations for CS...the non-custodial parent isn't expected to pay ALL the costs of raising the child...the OW will have to bear some of that burden too. If a father is paying 1000 dollars...why shouldn't the OW be expected to match that? And I know the answer...because in reality, her income doesn't match his...but neither is she responsible for his marital obligations....it's complex and almost impossible to make fair...UNLESS...folks who produce children become more responsible...and that begins FAR earlier than finances. It begins with child planning and birth control.

Contrary to your belief, I do not believe that the OC misses out. If the OW goes through the judicial system then there will be funds to help care for the child.

Well we don't agree on this....I believe CS is generally insufficient for most children, no matter who the custodial parent is exW/H or OW....and while OC can certainly flourish they are also at much much higher risk for poverty no matter whose statistics you look at.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ninety percent of single-parent families are headed by females. Not surprisingly, single mothers with dependent children have the highest rate of poverty across all demographic groups (Olson & Banyard, 1993). Approximately 60 percent of U.S. children living in mother-only families are impoverished, compared with only 11 percent of two-parent families. The rate of poverty is even higher in African-American single-parent families, in which two out of every three children are poor. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether or not the father is present is irrelevent; the child will be loved regardless and male role models will be in the child's life- either through family, friends, neighbors, OW moving on and getting married or heck, even the "Big Brother" type organizations.

Well, there is so much information about the negative effect of fatherlessness for children, that this comment really surprises me. Yes, other strong male role models are a great way to reduce the effect...and good parenting by the single parent also makes an enormous difference...but it is most certainly RELEVENT and subject of tons of study.

Just as the xMM/H doesn't care about a child they have no contact with, I believe (based on experience) that the child will not care about a man who walked out on them either.

I know too many adults who have searched for bio-parents who would not agree with this statement. Most children want to know their bio-parents whether you're talking about affairs or adoption. It's hard to describe why. Just do a google search and see how extensive the info/help etc. is on this subject and be prepared if your little one feels so inclined....because there is a good chance he will. Children just ARE interested in their bio-connections...maybe you're the exception.

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

So if CS is 1000, then matching those funds...is the responsibility of the custodial parent.


Theoretically, yes. The courts however take into consideration that the custodial parent is contributing more than money; they contribute love, time, energy and everything that money can not buy.

xMM pays a pretty penny because he chose not be involved. If he were to become involved in our child's life, his CS would be greatly reduced.

In other words, money is the replacement for absent time.


I won't deny that there are thousands of people searching out their biological parents but that doesn't mean the entire "parent-less" population is doing so. When my child is 18 and finds out that "Dad" lived a 20 minute drive away all throughout life, yet never once inquired or showed any interest, I highly doubt there will be an undying need to meet such a sorry excuse for a man.

CHEERFUL
YOU ARE A PEICE OF WORK!!

There is a simple solution to your problem. STOP sleeping around with MM and making babies and expecting others to raise them for yah..wiz

"When my child is 18 and finds out that "Dad" lived a 20 minute drive away all throughout life, yet never once inquired or showed any interest, I highly doubt there will be an undying need to meet such a sorry excuse for a man. "

Forgive me for this but it is how I feel and I must speak up. Oc and ow live about ten minutes from us, H does not have contact with oc, and I know it is because of me. He knows I cannot handle that, I feel he is the on who stepped out on me and my three children, we were here first and I am his commitment. Therefore he must fix what he messed up at home first, and if that means no c with oc, then so be it. That is his problem, he is a grown man and he chose this path, if he wasn't man enough to think of the consequences of his actions when he laid down in her bed, then that's his tough luck, we must all reap what we sow. Unfourtunately there is an innocent child in the picture now, but also she has a mother to thank as well as a father for her situation. Yeah some may call her father sorry or worthless for not having contact, however what do we call her mother who chose to have an affair with a man she knew was married???!! We call her nothing we glorify and pity her for raising a fatherless child and we reward her with money for her senseless actions. I'm going to close before I get ugly!!
Yelo

There is a simple solution to your problem. STOP sleeping around with MM and making babies and expecting others to raise them for yah..wiz

Wizard, we don't expect others to raise them but we DO expect the other person involved in the equation to do what is needed and is legal required for him to do.

Also, its very easy to look back and advise us of all the "would have, could have , should have"'s of any situation. And in some situations, you might be right but again, every situation is different. Also, its wasted energy, IMHO, to always look to the past when its the present and future that holds a bigger influence on me. I can't change what has happened but I can try and handle it positively in the best way possible now and forever. And in my experience, not as easy as always "living in the past."

Stormy

I totally agree with yah...

But you know what I am sick of hearing "the same ole bull!"

I agree someone should equally pay for the sins... but in a situation like this... in most cases..its the guy that lands up being at the mercy of these stupid women...

Hey lets face it..as soon as the woman gets pregnant...guess get to decide to the keep the baby or not?? Does the man have a say in this? NO
If you want a fair playing feild then make it even... "a man has a right to decide in the fate of his own child?"Tell me..where do people get off..acting all so damn righteous... Look at cheerful...just b/c she puts more care into the child?? So what? She decided to keep that child? Because this idiot decides to keep the child..the father just has to suck it up... where are his rights?? Save your breathe... "Oh he could have thought of that when he was sleeping with her!" Thats a lame excuse to keep a baby no matter who it cost?? No matter if it cost the children of the marriage financial burden? Thats the attitude..right? I have heard all the idiotic excuses..

The woman decide to keep the child no matter who it cost? Does she give it up for a family that can clearly care for the child... No. Its woman that decided what fate hold the child...

If it takes two to make baby...raise a baby... then it should be the right of BOTH to decide the fate of that baby.

Where's my tongue!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

however what do we call her mother who chose to have an affair with a man she knew was married???!!


"Mom"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


I'm supposed to be sentenced to an eternity of being known by all as an evil, uncaring, selfish tramp because I was involved with a man who told me his W kicked him out and was divorcing him?

I don't think so- not in my life. I have better people in my life than that.

It's called unconditional love; something that is prevalent with family and friends. At least, that is how things work with the people in my life- we love and respect each other always. Instead of focusing on negative (affair), we focus on positive (the blessing of a child).