Look at cheerful...just b/c she puts more care into the child??

Actually Wizard, I was making a general reference to all custodial parents, whether it be a former wife, an "other woman", a single woman, or a man raising that child- The courts take into consideration the physical care the custodial parent gives.

Once again bringing up JT (Sorry to keep using you as an example JT, but you're now a single parent receiving CS). She receives $2300. She probably doesn't spend an additional $2300 of her own money on the children per month...but I'd best my last dollar that she's making breakfast, packing lunches, driving those kids to school, soccer practice, dance lessons, helping out with homework, taking them to the doctor, making dinner, doing their laundry, etc. etc. etc.

Since she contributes things that money can not buy, then her H will be contributing for the things that money CAN buy- like food, clothing and shelter.


Once again, it doesn't matter who the custodial parent is, they're the ones working hard every day to make sure every ounce of that child's needs are met and then some. The non-custodial parent makes up for their physical absence with monetary contributions. It's just the way CS works.

Well
Cheery

I hope that when your child grows up has better morals than you. I hope for you child sake that he/she will grow knowing that you don't sleep with a still "MARRIED person"!!
THATS called respect... you don't involve yourself with person that is clearly in the process of marital problems...

How are you going to explain to your child when it turns 18yo; what a weak and pathetic woman she is... and couldn't even have the good moral compass to stay out of bed with a married man? How are you going to explain that you didn't at least wait til the guy was divorced??
While your explaining to your child how pathetic the father is...you better explain how pathetic the mother is too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'll give the facts and leave it up to my child to form an opinion on their own.

The only thing my child will need to know at the age of 18 is this:

" I fell in love with your dad at first sight, I knew him for three years before we dated. Your dad told me he was unhappy in his marriage. He chose to start a relationship with me once his relationship with his wife was over. We cared for each other very much. We both felt very blessed to have a child together and he wanted to be a father to you more than anything. He ended up reconciling with his wife and I have not talked to him since. I don't know why he chose not to be a father to you, I can't answer that, only he can."


Why does it have to be some ugly story? It's not.

" I fell in love with your dad at first sight, I knew him for three years before we dated. Your dad told me he was unhappy in his marriage. He chose to start a relationship with me once his relationship with his wife was over. We cared for each other very much. We both felt very blessed to have a child together and he wanted to be a father to you more than anything. He ended up reconciling with his wife and I have not talked to him since. I don't know why he chose not to be a father to you, I can't answer that, only he can."

THE Man WAS Still Married! You mean you "planned this pregnancy before he was even divorced??!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And you figure JUST b/c you loved each other that was the green light to get pregnant?? CLO...you are the scary type. Women like you able to concieve and actually raise children..boogles the mind.

And as far as him able to raise this child, How the hell do you know? "only he can"??

I strongly suggest that this child gets the "truth from a counsellour"

Does he have children at home??

Another thing that caught my attention.., he presued you...it's a two-way street honey... YOU could have said NO to the relationship. Ummmm fell in love with him at first site?? Makes me wonder who presued who? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I so agree with you wizard. i can't believe there are women out there that believe crap like that. She subjected her child to this type of situation and unfortunately the child will pay the price because of the choices she made with a MARRIED man. He belonged to someone else. How could a woman really think that a man will leave his FAMILY for a woman like that just because of this child.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong>
THE Man WAS Still Married! You mean you "planned this pregnancy before he was even divorced??!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't say anything about "planning" the pregnancy, that was your assumption.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> And you figure JUST b/c you loved each other that was the green light to get pregnant?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never said we loved each other now did I?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> CLO...you are the scary type. Women like you able to concieve and actually raise children..boogles the mind.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm scary because of a few posts I've made on this website? You know nothing of my personality, devotion to family, my education level, my career, how I live or other qualities. Let's face it, you don't know me. You can't base my entire being on an internet message board conversation piece.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> And as far as him able to raise this child, How the hell do you know? "only he can"?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said only xMM can explain why he has not been a father to OC, not that "only xMM can be a father to OC"- that's rediculous.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I strongly suggest that this child gets the "truth from a counsellour" </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the truth. Were you there? Do you know something about my life that I don't know? Just because I don't go into the sob story of what this did to BS doesn't mean it's not the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Does he have children at home?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. Does that matter when I tell my child at 18? Nope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Another thing that caught my attention.., he presued you...it's a two-way street honey... YOU could have said NO to the relationship. Ummmm fell in love with him at first site?? Makes me wonder who presued who? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, re-read that. I never said that xMM persued me. I said he chose to have a relationship with me. I didn't say that I was an innocent bystander and I didn't say that xMM was an innocent bystander. WE both chose to start a relationship. That's how relationships start, by the choice of two people.


See, I gave the facts and you formed your opinion didn't you?

The only difference is that you are hearing it from a BS point of view with preconceived notions that I (a sleazy tramp) targeted a relationship with xMM (a now noble family man) for the sole purpose of destroying a marriage; meanwhile you were thinking about poor Mrs.BS (who as far as you know could be a serial arsonist) and all of her innocent suffering along with her beautiful, pure and holy children of the marriage.

You see, my child will hear it from the point of view of someone who was raised by mom and dad was never around. It'll sound much different.

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

Cheerful sadly I know your type all too well.

So now you are saying that you concieved a child without loving this man?? You said it yourself you fell in love with him at first sight ?? Right?

And as far as calling you a "sleazy tramp" its seems to me that you can't read either?

And you actually said it all with your satement, "Yah he had children at home" And your child wouldn't careless.( and it was quit evident that you didn't care either!) I hope your child does care. I don't want your child follow in his mother's footsteps...

I would most curious what your going to tell this child about your last name?? (for others that don't know, she changed her last name to the same as MM) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> That alone makes me think you are scary!
It still makes me wonder why you are here all the time?

I'm afraid that we have moved away from the original topic of this thread. Being that I am also an OW, I am not here to make others feel uncomfortable. But I am more than willing to offer my side and other advice if I can if asked...on more appropriate threads though.

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Stormyweather ]</small>

Cheerful,

I'm not sure what state you live in, but CS guidelines and formulas are really different from state to state. Some states, like yours, take into account the amount of time that each parent spends in contact/NC with the child (but for some that is mainly to define custodial and non-custodial status and not to compute CS)...others go on numbers and equations alone, still others use antiquated formulas based on some very strange origins (Russian believe it or not). There is a huge movement for CS reform that will make these things as fair as possible to everyone....MM, existing children, and OC, spouses, ex-spouses and single custodial mothers. Even so, it's highly unlikely that those laws will make it significantly easier for OC to have the same financial benefits that children protected by marriage recieve. It is a harsh reality and one of the challenges of this society as it cares for it's children.

I won't acuse you of planning this child, since I know nothing of you, your relationship or your intent...but it's simple logic that you didn't prevent pregnancy adequately before the certainty of the divorce was a reality for the MM with whom you were involved. Unfortunately, that's helped to create a situation where your child's father lives a stone's throw from you and refuses to be participate....which you seem very angry about, and yet deny it's relevancy. That must be a bitter pill to swallow, and I'm sorry...but not knowing him, or the circumstances that factored into his decision to go to NC...I cannot know what his constraints or reasons are (anymore than I know yours) and I only hope that each of you can find peace with circumstances as they are.

I can only say with certainty that the women here are unlikely to be married to the MM in your life, and they should not be the focus of your anger and bitterness. It cannot be helpful for you to read the raw feelings of women who are similar to the BW that shares the MM sperm donor who deserted you....and yet you seem drawn to this place. Do you know why? You say you are not a member of TOW....and I won't challenge that, but don't you think you might find more support there? And if support is not what you're looking for....if it is instead creating controversy, or challenging the views here....what possible gain is that for you but to hurt women who had nothing to do with your abandonment or the plight of your child?

Sorry I got off topic.

My original reply was to support CS whether it be for an OW, a BS who has divorced H or a man raising a child on his own.

I also wanted Yelo to make sure her & H had an acceptable confirmation of payment of arears otherwise it may be considered a "gift" that they would need to pay again.

And then Wizard came along telling me that I need to quit sleeping with married men and expecting everyone else to raise my child. I just had to respond to her because she is completely off-base. I probably should have chosen to start my own thread, or ask her for her email address.

Starfish, Ask yourself why you visit TOW- it's probably the same reason I read here. Once again, I was not out to hurt anyone, I wanted to advise Yelo to ensure that Monday's payment to OW would not be considered a gift.

ladies,
I think we are way off course here! I even said some hurtful things myself. The thing that I try to tell myself over and over is, revenge is not mine. The Lord in die time will handle all of our sins, I will be held accountable for not allowing h to see oc, just as he will be held accountable for A, and ow will be held accountable for A also. Unfourtunately children have to suffer the consequences of thier parents sins. Let me give you a little bit of history on myself. My mom met my dad in a diner, she was a waitress, he was having marital problems and he confided in her. He ended up divorced they fell in love got married. She said nothing happended until he was divorced and the relationship began out of pity. They were married a few years when I came along, when I was a few months old, my mom caught my dad with another woman. He left us for her with me crying on his leg. Fast forward 27 years, I call my mon crying telling her of H's affair. I asked her why didn't you stay? She said to me for the first time ever, keep in min I am 27 at this time, b/c he didn't want us. He had left and came back to visit,she told him she loved him and wanted to make things work, she said I was crying and pulling on his leg, there was no response from him and he left. Unfortunately my father died 5 years ago and I never knew this about him, and I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but I do know that I am paying generational sin, I am now suffering the consequences my father put me in as a child, and someday oc will suffer the consequnces her parents have put her in. There is one thing I do know, nothing is impossible with God, and this too shall pass. I just asked for advice on cs, I didn't mean to offend anyone or stir up mixed feelings or anyone to get hurt over this topic, and I apologize if anyone did. anyway thanks to all of your support, H will cash savings bond tomorrow and put each year in money order form and give to ow, so ther should be no more problems. Hopefully....and if there is I will do as I was told in church this morning, cast all your worries on God, give them to him and leave them there, do not pull them back, let Him handle them, because He is bigger than I.
Yelo

Yelo

Sorry I TJ your post. Good luck its seems that you have good head on your shoulder.

I am sorry about your dad. Your mom sounds like very honourable person and should be commended on raising such a compassionate woman.

Again Good Luck and Please have everything documented and cheques should be put in a money order... NEVER in a personal cheque...she doesn't need to know your personal info.

Bless you.
wiz

SPEAK TO A LAYWER BEFORE YOU DO A THING. PERIOD.

Do not get pulled into her games either. As long as you are doing everything to the court order, you are fine. TALK to a laywer first before anything is cashed in.

I agree 100% to never give an ow a personal check. To much personal info is there.


CLO --- Remember that your oc one day may show up at XMM and they will have their side too.

I would imagine that any 17 year old could figure out right quick why there was no contact in this situation. However, that said, should our oc ever come around he will be told our truth and his mama doesn't come off so good from our side. And based on your behavior here, I am sure your child will be told quite an earfull on you and your behavior. I doubt the word "mom" will be what you are thought of at that point.

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: LynnG ]</small>

One reason we do not have c with oc is because my oldest child is ten and she adores her father, I simply cannot imagine what htis would do to her world if she knew the truth. I said I would never tell her until 1) she was old enough to handle the truth, understand about sex and what has happened and 2) I would not tell her until she could understand why I chose no c and that was to protect her and her other siblings here at my house. If she chooses to hate me so be it. That is something I will deal with then. Everything that is going on now with savings bond and cashing it, the yelling and screaming over the phone regarding the issue, blah, blah, blah, this is why I do not want c. h doesn't understand my side ofhte story, I came from divorced home, he didn't I know first hand how things can get, I have been there between the screaming and fighting. My children WILL NOT be exposed to this, that is my main reason for no c. H thinks he can control ow and whole situation, but he also has a hard time admitting that he CANNOT CONTROL THIS SITUATION.

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: yelodazee ]</small>

Well I can tell you that my children eventualy learned of oc existance and were extremely pleased that we did not make them the laughing stock of their friends by having the child in our lives. They were mortified to learn of oc, and were terrified that oc would come to the house of anything. I explained why we went no contact and they were not upset, but gratefull that we chose as we did. They do not want to be like those people on the Springer show.

My children are very happy to not have the intrusion in their lives. I'm sure the oc has figured out by now (17) why he is not part of our family too.

Thank you Lynn, it is very comforting to know there are people out there just like me, I keep thinking we are the only people in this situation and if people knew about a or oc they would look down upon H, well I have forgiven him, he made a mistake, or they would look at me and think what an idiot. I am happy to know oc is not in your life and it is ok. I feel like I am carrying a scarlet letter around wth me.

There are tons of people like you and I who live through this, paying child support and having no contact with the oc. I can also tell you that over the years I have made very good friends out of women who were in the same boat as I. We sorta became a quasi soroity. It is funny how we just find each other. I can tell you that we also know of people with oc and they have contact.

Virtually 100% of the marriages with no contact have had good lives, marriages that mended and have lived fulfilling lives. I know of not one marriage that had contact that didn't put up with alot of drama, and who's children are better off for it. I know first hand how these people struggled, cause we talked about it all. I know first hand how angry and embarrassed their children were having to explain why "Johnny" who comes over to play is "dads son, but not moms" but who is younger then "Mary" but oldre then "Jane". Kids are sharp and let me tell you when Mary and Jane grew up and the full impact of just how Johnny came to be was clealy understandable, the lies, the pain their mother went through, the humiliation was horrible. They were extremely angry. I never wanted that for my children. I never wanted them to have to suffer the taunts of their school mates about it like Mary and Jane did. They grew to hate Johnny and would make plans away from home when it was his weekend to visit. The whole situation was fraught with tension and loaded family arguements. Thankfully, "Johnny" and his mom and family moved far enough away where visitaion was curtailed and eventually stopped. While I know for a fact that the couple continued to stay in contact with "John" for a few more years, they all grew apart. So what was the benefit for anyone? "John" has a father relationship with his mothers husband. That is who he turns to for guidance and support. So who benefited from any of this? Johnny? No. The poor kid was taken from his home where he was totally and 100% accetped and sent to his dads house where the children who were there, resented him. The parents were fraught with tension. Should they punish their children for having feelings? Do they over compensate to Johnny to make up for the situation? Do they overcompenstate to thier own children to make up for the situation? If the father gets down on the kids of the marriage for the way they feel, is he putting Johnny's well being above theirs? Thus creating more tension? If he lets his kids get away with being cold to Johnny, is that fair to poor Johnny? Or is everyone expected to just pretend that it is all ok, all one big Norman Rockwell painting all so they can appear as if they are "doing the right thing" when in fact everyone was miserable with contact. It benefited nobody, but hurt everybody.

Knowing that story, as it unfolded firmed my resolve for no contact. I also know of a story where "dad" wanted contact with his little girl oc. Sadly ow passed on. So dad, wanting to "do what is right" took custody of her. Her mothers sister, who she knew better then her dad, desperatly wanted to raise her. But no, dad wanted to "do the right thing". Well his children to resented the child and were very angry about it. His wife was not that comfortable either, having to explain to people the situation. Suffering the side long glances and the whispers. Well guess what, mm passed on too and the BW was left raising the child. She did a good job, as far as material support went, but it wore on her. Once again, nobody was happy until the girl finally went to live with her aunt. The woman who loved her unconditionally in the firstplace. Who benefited there? The girl was happiest and most accepted within her mothers family. She had to have been aware of what her fathers family felt and thought. How sad for everyone.

So those are a few reasons of why I do not see any benefit of contact.

I am sure there are some instances of where it works, but who is paying the price?

I have recently read where an ow thinks it is just to bad for the children of the marriage, that it is ok if they get hurt, they will get over it....how crude to expect them to suffer like that. Couldn't the same arguement for no contact be made? OC will get over not having father in his/her life?

I just think it is healthier for the nuclear family to move on without the oc. Life is hard enough as it is.

We are not the only people with no contact. Some are trying and I respect their choices. I pray they make it, and they probably will. I chose to not even consider it.

Cheerful,

I continue to explain my presence on TOW, and you continue to evade any discussion about your purpose. My participation there does not parallel yours here in any way. I coach/mentor folks involved in, ending, and recovering from affairs...including OP. There are a number of posters there who are not that happy in their EMR but don't feel comfortable sharing feelings of regret with the public/open board sometimes. I get PMs from those people asking for guidance, and I do my best to help when possible. One of the big differences, is that I'm not emotionally invested, nor have I been hurt by an OW. There has never been an OW in my marriage...so I have some objective distance, and no inclination to lash out because I'm not recovering from a similar situation....which makes it easier for me to remain detached, logical, and non-judgmental instead of conflicted or angry. I don't agree with most perspectives, but I don't get emotionally triggered by anything said to me either (nor do I try to push their buttons). I have never insulted anyone there or posted disrespectfully. I stay away from their sensitive boards, and post solely on General which is where married people are asked to post. I do offer a different perspective which is certainly not always popular, but I do it without attacking anyone and I don't try to stir up trouble or drama. I use exactly the same posting name on each site so I remain authentic. The few times other posters have attacked me....I don't respond in kind.

Posted by CLO:
"xMM pays a pretty penny because he chose not be involved. If he were to become involved in our child's life, his CS would be greatly reduced."


I think this statement about says it all, it's about sticking it to the MM for working on his M and having NC. Then she goes and takes his last name without telling him.

Wiz is right, we've all seen this type... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

just an update ladies, H did get the savigs bond and cash it, but he only got one and of course as usual I asked him to wait until he had both in his hands to cash them and he didn't! MEN!!!!!!!!