You mentioned that you were a Wiccan and this is why MM originally broke it off, etc....

Are you still practicing that; and

Is the Wiccan "faith" or whatever you call it-- one that condones men having 2 wives and families simultaneously?

I'm curious because I have read of your situation, and your MM is actively living a secret double life w/you and your child daily. You have always seemed to be ok with it until recently. I think you are even the one that has said you'd be happy to live w/MM, his wife and your children all together?

I know a couple of people who say they are wiccans. Whats up w/that?

I don't mean to sound dumb or anything.......but what is wiccans? I guess I can do a google....but if someone knows or blackrio step on in, seeing you are on....you'd know better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

From what I understand its a form of witchcraft <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But what I also understand is that those who are "Wiccans" are adament about it being GOOD/NATURE like witchcraft or something!!

I'm sure I'll be corrected about that because I truly do not know. With the people I have been friendly with, they were "work" friends and not real close w/them out of work. I never really had a reason to spark up a Wiccan conversation with them if you catch my drift!!

I know this wasn't directed toward me, so pardon my input if it isn't wanted.

Wiccan religion is a kind of witchcraft. It IS good/nature related. This kind of religion believes that all matter consists of energy (earth,fire,air,water) and that one's thoughts and actions affect the energy of all things. Wiccans believe that one can create change by use of chants or spells. Mostly, it is about ENERGY and the use of such energy to create change in one's life.

I'm no expert, but dabbled some a few years ago.

avnl: OF course it was intended towards you. I was being very serious when I aked. If I don't know something, I ask. Thank you for explaining it to me.

I am not truly Wiccan as I haven't selected a pathway yet. The ones that I feel a true affinity to don't have many practioners in my area and I'm not able to travel to larger cities for study session and other group meetings. So at this time, I'm considered a witch but not Wiccan.

I was ok with the notion that we could all live together IF indeed it could be pulled off. But most American women are not raised to be in sister-wives relationships and connected to the same man. Wicca isn't about what is allowed and what isn't allowed, per se. Wiccan ideas are big on focusing on balancing connections with those people and energies around us. My R with my MM is a positive connection between us but causes him too much negative energy in his other relationships as he continuously tries to keep this part of his life secret from his wife and other family members. So for me, there is no longer a balance and his negativity is outweighing whatever positive connection we share.

So in practice if his wife and I both considered all our connections to him positive ones and it outweighed the negative aspects, then it would be no issue.

We spoke a bit on this today about me potentially leaving the relationship. I gave him my reasons and told him that there is now a time limit to how long I will stay if certain changes aren't made. I'm trying to get him to understand that I am not running a game. I am not trying to get him to leave his wife sooner than he wanted. I'm not going to use our daughter as a pawn as I will be open to a visitation schedule regulated through intermediaries. But he is allowing our relationship to color his judgement where it is now threatening his other families existence.

For example, he is a few months behind on paying the mortgage on their house. This is because of his having to pay for my bills and adjusting his household spending to incorporate the extra costs. He figures his wife probably would suspect something if he told her she had to contribute more of her paycheck towards the household bills. (Current agreement is that he is responsible for household bills and she is responsible for child care and her own personal expenses. This was done when she was a full time graduate student and not working. She become an administrator at a school 2 years ago and she now makes more money than him but they never changed the agreement.) He was working side jobs to help cover my household expenses but they dried up during the holidays and haven't picked back up.

To help counteract this, I allowed him to claim our daughter on their taxes. Don't ask me how he plans to keep the official records from his wife but the extra dependent will allow him to catch up minus a small amount I requested so I can pay some of our daughter's expenses. Some of my friends think I'm crazy to allow this but this is one of the ways I chose to help bring balance back into his life.

How the heck is he going to put your child on his income tax without his wife finding out? WOW.

We shall find out won't we as he filed electronically and it was accepted by the IRS last weekend. He is leaving a very visible paper trail and I'm now wondering if he is trying to get caught by her.

Sorry, I just have to chime in for a second. Stormyweather , what is your story? Obviously you are the OW in your situation and I'm just curious to hear your justifications for continuing your R with a MM, or for holding out until he makes up his mind. I'm not trying to slam you, I promise. I'd just like to know if you don't mind me asking.

Man, I gotta get out more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

{Part of my explanation comes from other posts.}

I've known my MM for 13 years as we've met in college. (He's been married for 6 now.) We have been in and out of relationships with each other all during this with most recent before this being very intense and dramatic. I was with him through many tough times including his dad's heart attack, his struggles with his religious training, etc... All this happened before she even came into his life.

But at the time, he couldn't come to grips with the fact that here he was getting his degree in theology, getting ready to go to graduate divinity school and here the love of his life was choosing an almost Wiccan (read heathen in his book) pathway for her own belief system. He thought that after he left our town, he could force himself to forget about me. His wife was the rebound relationship. He met her, became engaged and was married less than a year after he left me.

Part of our bouncing that also happened while we were in college was due to the conflict of beliefs. I was advised by friends to leave the preacher man alone so as not to corrupt him with my free spirit/ energy connection ways.

He contacted me about a year and a half later in 1999 after he married but I held off from physical involvement until 2003. I really thought I could do like some of my other female family members and be involved in this type of situation indefinitely...but I can't. He's a wonderful father and he loves both of his daughters but I'm not willing to be part of his long term plans without some major adjustments.

My entire family (translations: parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc...) knows and knew from the very of my pregnancy about my relationship with him. They weren't surprised to find out we were back together. He has been accepted which isn't surprising since I have mentioned before that many of my aunts have been in Rs with married men throughout the years and often brought them to family events as well.

Why I allowed it to go on? Because part of me wanted to believe that the balance was working itself out again. He left years ago and it through me into such an negative emotional state that it actually took me a year to just get to the point to start the recovery process. I threw myself into school finishing the degree that I had faltered on years before and focused on my family. After school I then embarked on a celibacy period in order to maintain neutrality in my life. I focused on my family and career. This lasted 3 years. When he reintroduced himself back into my life, I finally started to feel the swing of balance stablize more and started to feel those positive connections once again.

But now the negatives of all involved are starting to outweigh the positives for now. After the birth of our daughter in August, I was placed by my doctor on the hormonal birth control ring. Its one where its inserted for three weeks and then removed for one week to allow your period to happen. Christmas night, I started cramping and bleeding heavily. I thought it was my period. That Monday because it hadn't let up, I went to the where I discovered I was suffering a miscarriage. I was both relieved and sad. Sad due to the loss but relieved that I wasn't going to have to go through what I had just went through being pregnant with our daughter and that I wouldn't have to think about how on earth would we have handled two infants emotionally and financially. If nothing else, that was my wake up call that spiritually the balance is shifting again and towards the negative.

Doctor then informs me that new studies have shown that when overweight women use hormonal birth control, sometimes our metabolism processes the hormones differently which leaves gaps in the coverage its supposed to provide. If that gap happens during our fertile time, pregnancies occurs. So I was then advised to wear the ring all 4 weeks and just remove it when its time to place another in. (This also explains how I got pregnant with my first son while I was using birth control pills some 11 years ago. The concentration was so high in my system that more than a few doctors have suggested it may have been a factor in why he sufferes from ADHD, anxiety attacks, Tourette's and a few others.}

Unless changes are made, I am ready to start the ending process soon so that spiritually and emotionally I can stablize things once again.

Yep, you're a witch alright.

Thanks for the explanation. I've read enough on you for one day.

Bizzare....simply Bizzare....did I say how Bizzare?

All I can say is Bizzare.....

all I can say is SAD - SAD -- SAD!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
This whole thought porcess is SAD......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Thank GOD for being the head of my Life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have friends that are Wiccans and they are nothing like Stormy. In fact they are normal people who lead everyday lives like us. They have alters in their houses and pray to their goddesses. It's never freaked me out. Their harmless and some of the best people you could meet.

*putting on flame retardant* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Is this the Twilight Zone?

They have alters in their houses and pray to their goddesses.

I don't have an alter as I haven't gotten that far and the pathways I like best are those that are respectful to both the goddess and god. Thus the balance of it all is still maintained. My pathway has a lot of Mid Eastern influence incorporated in which spiritual balance is one of the main aspects.

Wicca is just like Christianity in which there are different pathways which are like denominations. Each one has their specific ways of honoring the higher power they chose to repect or many are eclectic in which they often choose parts of the other pathways and put them together to make their own pathway. One of my friends chose to do this by selecting goddesses from various old religions (Greek, Egyptian, African, Celtic, etc....) I know a few that practice in covens and it takes 3 years of specialized study to be a full member. There are various ways one can be Wiccan and just like other religions, there are some pathways that consider themselves better than others.

As far as being just like everyone else, I am just that. I accept the fact that everyone is free to believe what they want and Its not like I walk around advertising such personal aspects of my life. My personal symbols are the Egyptian ankh which is the symbol of life and the Chinese Yin Yang which incorporates the balance of life. The Yin is the moon which in Wicca symbolizes the goddess (woman) and Yang is the sun which symbolizes the god (man).

Its all about balance. Sorry that it seems so far out there for many of you but its part of who I am and I don't apologize for that just like many of you wouldn't apologize for being Christian.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Stormyweather ]</small>

Storm, your belief has nothing whatsoever to do with christianity and cannot be compared to it in any way. in fact it is the direct opposite of it.

Life is Strange,

With all due respect, I have studied (prefessionally) many religions and I have found they all have the same basic structure, the same goal, and the same pathway to achieving their goal in a broad spectrum.
Religions only tend to vary in minor details of achieving our common goal and practicing the common beliefs.
Yes, Wiccan is a form of Christianity in that it is a branch of the Pagan Religion which was established before Christianity. Some Christians of today were called Pagans in old Europe if I remember correctly (I believe there are over a thousand forms of Christianity). Wiccan is a newer branch and termed a "Neo-Pagan" religion.

Some religions pray to God (Jehovah/Yaveh, Allah, Ja, God, etc.), some pray to prophets, some even pray to themselves or gods (plural) and goddesses.

My point is that if you were to delve into the heart of each of these religions, you would see that they contain a universal belief, it's simply the path that differs.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: CheerfulLittleOne ]</small>

Sorry...

Unless the path is Jesus Christ, it is in NO way a form of CHRISTianity.

It is what it is, and you are as free as any of us are to believe as you choose, but it is NOT simply another denomination of Christianity.