lonelymom,<P>As far as the first issue you brought up, like the others I don't think it's healthy for the kids to be exposed to OW and I think it is her that is pushing the issue and not your H. But I definitely would draw the line there. <P>Now let's address this issue of last's night incident. Yes you have turned the stove up higher if you get my drift, but all is not lost. My first suggestion is that you automatically stop contact with old boyfriend. I had a one night stand and it almost destroyed me and the pain of it still lurks in my heart. You need to look yourself in the mirror and face what you did head on. Your H may not be man enought o face what he has done to his family, but you must now be woman enough to face the fact that you made a mistake. And that's what it was a mistake. Trust me as soon as you are able to face this and move on the closer you will be to healing your marriage. It's taken me entirely to long to understand this. ANd I've almost buried my marriage 6 feet under. It's not too late for me and definetly no too late for you. You can do this. We believe in you. Fight for your marriage. This one night stand is going to look like revenge to him. And believe it or not though he's having an A, he is going ot be pissed about your ONS. But don't despair. No LB's and Plan A all the way. It works. <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

LM,<P>First of all,<P>You can edit your original message and click the box to notify you when a comment comes in.<P>Second, In regrad to the old boyfriend. Don't kill yourself over this. I know it felt great to fell wanted, and I really don't think this is the worst thing thing in the world, as long as you end it now.<P>Me honest with the old BF, and tell him you are trying to work on your marriage. He's been around this long, he will be there after your conflict is resolved.<P>Just try not to feel hat he is your only chance at happiness. I know that is how my ex feels about OM, an that is what killed us.<P>Hang in there. See, I told you Jim would show up.<BR> <P>

Hi friends !! <BR>To chick, don't know your first name but I hope you get over the flu soon. To the rest who replied, I was scared to sign on today!!<P>Thank you for being understanding. I figure if this forum will help me I have to be honest. And I am honest.<P>I did tell OB last night that I loved my H. I told him that hypothetically he could come back tomorrow. He said that he would not be the happiest, but would not interfere if I asked him not to. Yet he said that he saw me go through this five years ago and it wasn't pretty then either. The fact that he even supported me last night was amazing. I kind of left him in the cold back then. For H, although we weren't married yet then.<P>I think he knew how hurt I was. He had seen me at my best and at my worst, and when he saw me last night, he knew I was at a bad point. He knew I had been mentally abused for five years before hand, and never imagined it happened again. But he knew my self esteem and emotions were confused. He treated me like a lady and made me feel so special> I believe if I never see him again, last night lifted me up a bit. To feel like a human again, to feel like a woman, like a person worthy of being admired, loved and treated like a princess. That alone, I have a great respect for him for. But back to the topic, yes I made a boo boo. Not sad about it. It wasn't a revenge thing, although yes I agree it will appear that way. No offense to the wonderful men on this site, but for some reason, some men can't get over what I have done, even if they did do it first. Its a double standard, but it is true. I have seen it with a lot of my girlfriends who have been cheated on. When they did it back , it was not a happy sight.<P>Am I confused about my marriage? No. Do I still want to Plan A? Yes. But I want to set some kind of ground rules. Must I have to hear about him and HER shoved down my throat every minute. I live with her, we will be home at six, we are going out tonite, oh SHUT UP ALREADY!!! You think I don't picture them making love every night (well not last night anyway). But can't I somehow set a rule that we only discuss the kids right now. What about child support, he is cutting me off for not allowing kids to meet OW. Is it a LB that I fight for my money for my kids? I mean, this is a direct consequence of his actions. Not a revenge factor. I feel strong enough to stand up to him this week.<P>Yes we disgussed counseling. He has asked three times, The last time we went as a family he wanted to come home the next day. But he wants to come home and jump in. I felt he should change jobs, end it with OW, stay with mom at least a week, start intensive counseling and dating with each other and work hard. Not just move home and go on, we have to solve all these problems he made, then get down to WHY it all happened, Then get down to repairing the marriage. <P>Is it better to admit to him last night, and get it over, should I save it for counseling, should I never mention it again, he did leave and am I really required to tell all, even though he tells all, I hate it. I don't like to lie, but don't want to regret it later, when it could come out to haunt me.<P>This Plan A, I might give myself a reasonable time limit, but we have court soon for child support. He will be MAD at me because when he doesn't pay the court will take back pay also so he will have no money, making me look like a bad guy even though i have ALL the bills AND NO money right now. While he pays OW bills and takes care of another man's child.<P>Oh God, give me strength to do the right thing. You are all in my prayers tonite! <BR>

Lonelymom,<BR>In regards to the kids, when my then w left me back in July, she wasn't seeing the kids very much and was keeping the kids away from om. When they got the apartment together, she told them she had a roomate and then that he was just a friend. My kids figured it out on there own that this was mom's boyfriend. They believed that we were already divorced since she wasn't at home.<P>Then she tried forcing the om on the kids and everybody. Our son was at her parents for a week and when it was time to pick him up, she left me a message that om was going with her as he didn't want her to make the 1.5 hr ride alone. I went ballastic !<P>I was fighting her tooth and nail not to expose the kids to om. A minister told me that it would be a eventuality and I might as well relax. He told me to trust in the Lord, myself and the kids. He said he knew I and there mother had raised the kids morally and that I would have to trust them to see for themselves that what she was doing was wrong.<P>I asked the kid's counselors too if the would suffer any harm. They both said as l,ong as I keep the lines of communications open and my now x was descreet, they should not suffer any long lasting harm.<P><BR>You will never be able to convince your h that there will be no harm because all they think of is physical harm as opposed to emotional.<P><BR>The last few weeks my x has been taking kids shopping with om accompaning them. I think she is trying to paint a picture of the happy family. The kids hate being around them and do whatever they can not to be around him. But she continues to bring him around.<P><BR>I really don't blame you for trying to keep your kids away from om, it may help to break them up if he does miss them, but don't expect any legal help.<P>If he is hurting you financially, file for legal separation and he will have to pay you support.<P>As for your encounter, please don't do that again if you want to save your marriage. Everyone on the board knows how much pain and loneliness you are going through.<P><BR>Hang in there, get into counseling, and may God Bless you.<P>Bob

{{{{{{{{{{<B>lonelymom</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>lonelymom</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>lonelymom</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I'm so sorry for your pain...<BR>I know it well.<P>You are loved here... and yes.. you're still not alone... you are not the first to have had a "rebound"...<P>Again, you are loved... <P>We don't chase anyone away...<BR>...and we've had some truly dispicable people pop-in with the most bizarre ideas of marriage and marriage building...<P>I offer you my compassion...<BR>...welcome to the world of humanity<BR>...a world filled with mistakes<BR>...a world of more hurt<P>First a prayer for your health... <BR>...STDs are always a concern.<P>Second a prayer for your emotional health... <P>You might not see/feel any of your own guilt... but... it will come.<P>One of the major goals in recovery is to apply <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse. This will now be made somewhat harder for you... though not insurmountable. <P>Yes... do continue with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and B(in time)</A>... it's the best recourse... <P>I have to agree with RDW(Bob)... on the "separation" and the "encounter".<P>Other recommendations...<P>Don't "fight fire with fire"... you'll only get burned!<P>If you have good grounds to move out of state... that would be OK... but <B>not</B> to punish H... (to save your sanity... in the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> way... it's OK)... but also don't let this be an indirect punishment of the kids!<P>As far a the subliminal messages...<BR>...I don't think this is all that great either... although my W thinks/says I do this.... My approach is to bring my kids up in the light of the relationship my W has... and continue to teach on the principle of "love the sinner... hate the sin". There is nothing I do that is subliminal about this. I do tell my kids to <B>always</B> love their mom. I even ask them to pray for OM... (to find God's will.) I am very open with my kids in the area of their faith... and I don't mince my words much. There is right and there is wrong... <B>Learn to recognize the difference</B>... Strive for the right... admonish the wrong... <B>but</B>... again love the sinner.<P>Hard things to do...<BR>...many say... it can't be done!<BR>I... with my values... those that I choose to pass on to my children(to become their values) in the 85% of the time I have them... continue with this approach.<P>Prayers again... for you! <P>Jim

Bob and Jim,<P>Thank you for your kind words. I agree with you both on those issues. <P>It really bothers me that the morals in this country are not more admired. Kids should not be exposed to OW or OM in many situations.<P>Last night my H kept calling here, I refused to talk to him. So guess who called me ! OW <BR>AHHHHHHH, I was furious. I have NOTHING to say to her right now. So I was not pleased with this game playing. Plus my H called here every half hour all weekend, claiming to talk to the kids, but I wasn't here, nor them, he said he had me followed too> I don't believe he should call here like that, its like he is trying to somehow stay close in our lives. What would the OW think of all this?? How bizarre.<P>Well, H is going to the lawyer this week, on Wed. I have no intentions of telling him of my evening before then, because he will really be furious for a while. I personally, on his part, don't see what he has to be upset about, he left on xmas, he told me to take a hike, and has rubbed her in my face for a month now. <P>I still don't feel guilty. I believe you when you say it will come. I do. I am looking at my situation that I am going to stay on Plan A. I don't see my marriage being fixed before a year, because he has dug such a hole for us to work out of and it only gets worse. This week, I really don't want ANY contact with him but I have no choice. I think if I avoid him for a few days I can clear my head. <P>I didn't think of him hardly at all yesterday. In a way, it was a good feeling, because I dwell on things. Did I dream of him and her??YEs I DID. <P>I am going to the doctor today. STD's, yes a concern because he has a vasectomy, so he and I were safe, but he and her, NO WAY. ME and OB, safe again. But I don't know what kind of person she is, I opt not to call her a person these days, but I have to get used to her seeing the kids.<P>Jim, I read a lot of your posts, you have a lot of good advice, are you a counselor of some sort? I would like to hear from any other people who had a "rebound" and let me know any helpful things. <P>Have a great day to you all and I will try and sign on through out the day. I am really nervous as H called here last night, wanting to know where I was all Saturday night. I don't understand his concern. If anyone can explain to me, why he feels the need to know my whereabouts, while he is living with her, please let me know.<P>Where we live, if you have voice mail, when you leave a message, there is a name recorded automatically before your message comes on, its called a name greeting. Well it used to say OW and her son's name, now, it say H, OW and her son. UGGHHH, he called here about 6 times that had her voice before his on that announcement. Has anyone experienced this>? It is truly disgusting. <P>Does anyone know how H can go start a whole new life with OW, and a whole new family in one month. Can he really be concerned about his kids after doing this? Or is he using them to get to me, which is how I am starting to feel. He has a way of asking them questions and getting answers that he doesn't need. Who out there had their spouse move in like this within a month, or any period, and did you still save your marriage. I have seen a lot of posts where the spouse moves to parents, and still sees the OP, but this seems like such a big step, I wonder if I should feel this is a permanent thing because of how quickly they are moving forward. I have heard through the grapevine that OW is extremely controlling of my H, which I can't figure out because HE HATES to feel controlled, and is very selfish (as is OW) . Can a relationship such as theres really go on to marriage and even be all that great when its 2 completely selfish and disrespectful people involved, and even last week he told her he was coming home, now they are living happily ever after.<P>I feel like I am going to get sick. Please reply friends, if any of you have any experience in these areas. As far as the kids being exposed, I am SO disgusted about this.<P>Dana<BR>

All I can say is look at this web site and please call the number. If we hadn't we wouldn't be where we are now- in recovery... <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.org" TARGET=_blank>www.retrouvaille.org</A> <BR>1-800-470-2230<P>Dr. Harley's plan A is a good first step. The books definitely helped. But when there is little or no meaningful communication and there are children involved...this program really helps.<P>If you are attending a church- they may know about this also.

Hi everyone,<P>Just spoke to H. Seems he filed the taxes without me and got $4K back. He is using it to file divorce against me. He claims it is all because I held the kids from him. (ya right). He claims I asked for it by not allowing the kids to go there. He is getting his vasectomy reversed, getting married and having MORE kids. <P>I told him that is awful irresponsible, since after ten years, he can walk away from his first marriage. He claims he left me not the kids. And the family will rebuilt without me. <P>He said he did meet her three days before xmas. I asked him to swear to this, and of course, his word is worth garbage, but he holds true to this. He says the relationship feels really good . (most do the first few months). But I don't know what else to say.<P>No he doesn't know of this weekend, and no I am not giving him any ammo before his lawyer meeting this weekend.<P>I think he is jumping the gun on the divorce, but thats just me. I guess I will need to find a "divorced" forum soon since I can't save a marriage that ended.<P>He keeps digging a bigger hole for us. He won't give me child support,won't pay any of the bills he left behind, stold the tax money and now he wants to take absolutely everything he can take. <P>I feel this is totally ridicoulous 6 weeks after he left, I question when he met her, but right now, can't dwell on that. Just have to look at it from my angle.<P>I almost feel like maybe I should just accept the marriage is over. Who out there could have the strength to fight this battle?? Do you know anyone who has.? I have heard of instances where someone filed divorce fast and regretted it, but still. I am too confused to think. Nothing at all to do with this weekend, but he really ruined my good mood today.<P>Thanks for letting me vent !!!

lonelymom<P>I'm beginning to think betrayed spouses are issued a handbook of lame statements they use to talk to us! "I left you not the kids" (well, the kids look around and your not here, duh!) I'd been told that one too and many more that I don't care to recall.<P>I'll never forget when I was invited to a party Oscar night 1998 and our daughter needed a ride to a party and she called her dad to ask him to drive her home from the party. His first question was why couldn't mom do it. When she told him mom was going out he went nuts! Wanted to talk to me and told me I had no bussiness going anywhere and as I am the Mother I should be driving my kid where ever she needed to go and I'd better not go anyhwere, or else!!!!! LOL, I told him he had no room to talk, to go look in a mirror and when he is done besure to pick our daughter up on time. CLICK. I then hung up on him. Of course that was before I found out about plan A. <P>The whole thing makes you feel like a yoyo doesn't it? One conversation leads you to believe it's all over, the next he wants to come home, then he hates your guts and wants a divorce. ::SIGH::<P>It may be because he doesn't have a clue as to what he wants, or if he is ashamed of what he has done and if he tells you he is wrong he has to face that fact himself, or any combination of a number of factors.<P>You are in the earliest stages of this whole mess. I wouldn't say it gets easier to deal with,it's more so you become accustomed to the ride and are better equiped to deal with each new pile of doggy poop you have to deal with.<P>I have been fighting for my marraige for close to three years now. He filled for divorce 2 months after he initially left (Sept of 98), but never followed through on it. He left again 6 months ago and he hasn't filled and says he has no intention of divorcing me now or ever. He keeps insisting he's coming home. But won't committ to when, just says he's doing the best he can to work everything out and will return home soon.<P>How do I do it? I stay focussed on what I want (that being my H back) and strong. Of course my H has come home once before and is now giving me hope he will return again.<P>Will I stay in this holding pattern forever? Nope, eveyone has their boiling point. But seeing as this has just all happened to you in the past few weeks, I'd take a lot of what you H is saying and doing with a grain of salt. <P>If I were you I'd plan A and sit back and watch what happens.<P>The ride is a bummpy one but if your marriage survives it's worth it in my opinion.<P>Take Care and Fasten Your Saftey Belt,<P>Fingers Crossed<P> <P>

Fingers Crossed,<P>SOunds like our H are related?? He was really mad that I went out and left the kids with a sitter this weekend. He is also mad I wouldn't send them to his "house" with OW. <P>Your advice is good. Five weeks isn't long. I can't see myself doing it for 3 years, but who knows. <P>The statement your husband made that he will be back eventually and all,is another I have heard. He is now implying that if I see other people he will never come back because he can't forgive me or that betrayal (never mind saturday night, he's talking just dinner).<P>I believe it is scare tactics on his part. He wants me to be afraid to see someone else so that I sit here and wait, while he takes this relationship to its fullest with OW.<P>He is going to lawyer on Wednesday and has ALL the tax money and left me out. I wonder if I am entitled to half of that refund as we were married/? Need to look into that one. <P>He keeps playing all these dirty tricks and hurting me financially too. I can't understand what I did to make him hate me like this. He claims he loves me, but this is not love what he is doing to me, is something I would do to a person I hated, not loved. <P>Now he claims he and OW are planning a family. How? WHY? I told him, you walked out of a ten year relationship. I never cheated on you. I was like a slave. I did everything, but all he did was work one 40 hr a week job, golf, watch football and do yard work. I did laundry, cook, clean work 50 hours a week, kids homework, I did it all.<P>So I also told him that he has no right to bring more innocent children into this world now that he won't pay for his own. What a mess. I just don't know what to do. <P>Is this a possible bluff? We are nice one day and he argues the next. I try to stay calm, patient and loving, even today when he spoke of divorce, this is what I said.<P>Here's where I stand on it. I love you. I am willing to save the marriage. I feel you are making a terrible mistake, one that you will regret one day. I don't want to fight, or argue, we have to deal with each other the rest of our lives. If you change your mind on the counseling, let me know. I am sorry you feel that your issues are enough to walk away from our marriage and our family. But running to make another one in an attempt to hurt me, is not the best option here. If you need to talk, I am here, but I have to go now.<P>I might add he has a vasectomy. They talked of adoption, what fool would let them adopt, but anyway, I doubt he is up for a vasectomy reversal with no health insurance either. Could he be telling her what she wants to hear to keep her close too?? If he lies to her, do you think H would also lie to OW??<P>Good luck fingers crossed!

lonelymon<P>You asked if they lie to the OP too.<P>In my case YES. BIG TIME LIES!<P>I had to laugh when you asked this.<P>Right before he left yesterady he asked me what movies were new at the show. I told him seeing as I don't go to movies anymore, since he isn't there to go with me, I had no idea. I asked why he wanted to know.<P>He proceeded to tell me how he needed to come up with a movie he can tell OW he took the kids to. He even asked our D's b/f to tell him about some movie he had taken our daughter to earlier that week. But the kids had no idea why he was asking this.<P>LOL I guess he could'nt go back to her and tell her his day *seeing his kids* REALLY consisted of:<P>A) Making Love to his wife<P>B) Having his kids both gone all day and spending 99% of the day alone with his wife<P>C) Taking his wife out for an early dinner at one of the best restaraunts in the area<P>D) Telling his wife how he really can't stand OW any longer and can't wait to move back home.<P>E) Giving his wife a back rub<P>and assorted other goodies. <P>OOPPS Need to pick D up from school. I'll respond to your other questions later. <P>Fingers Crossed<P>