<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSR:<BR><B>Welcome sharlene</B>...<P>Your patience with your H is truly remarkable... <P>I have a post of general welcome post I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>For some clarity... a short time ago the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums...<BR>Staying in the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum will give you the most responses! <P>It sounds like you've been doing what we call a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>

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Plan A: Avoid angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, annoying behavior and dishonesty (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and... whenever/wherever try and meet you H's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> (it seems to mean this <B>is</B> something you've been doing)...<P>do read up on it(<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>)...<P>If in fact this is the case... and there is absolutely no way your H will leave the OW... you may be forced into a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan B: Avoid contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has ended (page 79 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...in your situation as a basically a SAHM... this may mean a separation... so this should be a last-ditch type decision. I'll give you some legal references... if you need them later.<P>Do get the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> and read it!<P>I'd say stay with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> for a short while longer...<P>after you do the reading and research... think of perhaps having a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A>. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>! He can evaluate your situation very fast and very well... and help you make the decision of <B>when</B> to move to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>!<P>Prayers... <P>Jim

<BR>I think that trying2_4give is right on!!I am one of Shar's friends. I have seen her in uncontrollable pain. She feels trapped. She has done everything for him and I mean EVERYTHING, and He has done nothing for her!! Her GHEALTH is on a downward spiral. He tells her to deal with it. He says he is happy, what is her problem, PLEASE!!!He is not there for her emotionally or physically. He never spends anytime with his girls. It is emotional torture! No human being should go through this, NO ONE!<BR>ps This seems to be a cycle for Shar. This is NOT the only relationship like this for her. I feel for her, but it seems all I can do is listen, I also feel helpless.<BR>Pauline<BR>

<B>Pauline</B>...<P>Sharlene has some very good friends and your reply is great proof of that! <P>I did have a second reply to Sharlene... where I did try to make my <I>opinion</I> clear that her situation is <B>not</B> a good one... <B>at all</B>! All that you've said... and what came out in <B>her</B> second post... says that her H is bordering on being an abusive spouse through his obsessive controling behavior.<P>The fact the she/you feels(believes) her H's claim of <B>polygyny</B> "is cr@p" is a very good first step.<P>Sharlene... You might want to check out getting a new counselor. If the abusive situation has not come out in your current sessions... you need to find a new counselor. <P>Is your husband in counseling? If he is as controlling as is indicated... probably not... <P>Many of us are in various forms of abusive situations from spouses (I am in one as well.) While the support here at the forum is <B>very... very...</B> helpful... it is <B>not</B> a substitute for "professional" help.<P>Sharlene... you need this!<P>Compassion... love... and care... <BR>You'll get all of that here... <P>But to work on this kind of relationship... with your kind of problems... and many other hidden ones most likely too... "professional" help is called for!<P><B>Pauline</B>... you are a good friend!<P>Jim

to the top for lonely mom. Each topic posted is a thread.

sharlene,<P>I can't imagine letting OW into my home to "talk it over." (over a hot flame with a fire poker in hand maybe..). This is your decision though - how would it help your relationship with your H? How would it affect the rest of your family? Only you can decide. Bummer

A little clarification on "polyamory", if you please. <P>Even people who practice this (and no, I'm not one of them) will tell you that a) it requires a lot of work; and b) THAT EVERYONE HAS TO AGREE WITH LIVING THAT WAY.<P>In Tucci's case, she is NOT agreeing. If her H wants to be "polyamorous" (and let's see how polyamorous he is when it's HIS WIFE who wants to sleep with others), she can't stop him. But she doesn't have to participate. She has a right to want a marriage she can deal with.<P>Plan A my butt. This is a get-the-h*ll out situation.

Dazed & Confused:<P>Well said! I agree wholeheartedly. <P>Peppermint

Well I told H to leave Saturday night and we fought and he didn't leave! He told me if he leaves it is irrevesable(he will never come back) He saw OW last night and then came home and asked me to agree to a 6 month period of time of going with his set up, every thursday at her house and tuesdays to see her for an hour and every sunday to watch movies and One weekend a month for their overnighter!!! He wanted an answer last night but I wouldn't give him one. Now what do I do!!!???<P>------------------<BR>

Sharlene,<P>Only you know how much you are willing to put up with.<P>But (there is always a but isn't there) you don't deserve to have to live this way. You have already put up with this stuff for over 6 months now. Why should you allow him to have both of you whenever and however he wants.<P>His refusal to leave SEEMS to suggest he wants you, but he wants you only on his terms !<P>As things stand he is having all of his needs met by both of you, so why should he back off from ow ? As long as you agree to this he has nothing to lose. <P>It is time to look at what is best for you and your children. Is this what you want them to believe marriage really is ?<P>IMHO, it is time for him to fish or cut bait to put it nicely. If he can't treat you with the love and respect you deserve now, what makes you think he will do so in 6 months ?<P>Your H needs to grow up, he won't as long as you and ow both let him have everything his own way !<P>I hope I don't sound angry at you, I am angry FOR you.<P>Please take a look at the life he is offering you, is it really worth it ?<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Others have given the rationale so I won't go into that but I suggest an immediate and strict Harley Plan B. Write him a letter telling him exactly what you believe and how you feel. Then separate and see if he comes back. If not, you move on with your life. The alternative is to continue to live whatever life your husband chooses for you to live. Don't let him do that. Good luck.

Charlene I AM SO UPSET RIGHT NOW, I AM SEEING RED and you are the one married to this THING! YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT YOU ARE SCARED SH7TLESS TO SAY AND DO IT! I wish I can jump into your body right now and take control, but since that is impossible I will just have to be here for you as we all are for each other. Charlene do you UNDERSTAND I mean REALLY UNDERSTAND that this man IS VOID OF BASIC COMMON SENSE AND LOVE AND PROTECTION FOR YOU. This just is NOT NORMAL. If he has a mental disability then fine, that's HIS PROBLEM. But now he is giving you one and this CAN'T GO ON, NO WAY, NO HOW! This is sick, truly sick. Yes you love this man, yes you are scared of having a life without this man, but it NEVER BE WORSE THAN WHAT YOUR LIFE WITH HIM IS NOW. You should definitly talk to a counselor for yourself. If this is a pattern for you, then you really have to work on your self-esteem or figure out what happened while growing up that MAY have made you so dependent on ABUSIVE MEN. It could be the not-so-good- relationships that you witnessed while growing up, self-esteem issues or whatever. But DEFINITELY seek a good doctor, especially for the kids sake. They should know that this is NOT the way to treat people, because someday, they WILL start treating you with the same lack of love and respect that your H is! This will not stop until YOU MAKE IT STOP! Sorry if I am too judgemental, but I can't pussyfoot around this one. TAKE CONTROL FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND RESPECT YOURSELF, he sure as hell doesn't!

Sharlene, <P>This has been going on since July. I think you see the progress, or lack there of, that Plan A has produced.<P>You, nor anyone else, should be treated this way. This isn't honesty in a relationship, this is abuse. <P>It's easy for us to say get out; but I know it's a very hard decision on your part. I can only say, that if you allow this to continue, your H will crush your spirit. You don't want that. You shouldn't allow him to trample your self esteem, destroy your hope in others, and disgrace your marriage in this manner. <P>He's saying that if he moves out he'll never come back. That may or may not be true. If it is true, then he let go of your marriage a long time ago and his only intention is to bring you down with him. Maybe if you left with the kids, he would get a strong dose of reality and he would understand you cna not be manipulated to his whims. <P>Sharlene, only you know the whole story, Only you know what to do and what you will tolerate. We're only giving advice in regards to what you are telling us. I know you're hurting, and I know nobody should be put into the situation you are trying to deal with. Go with your instincts. Don't compromise your beliefs. "To thine own self be true".<P>Best wishes, <P>SHA

Well he moved out tonight and moved in with her.I have never felt such pain as I am right now. The OW told H that he can't have contact with me because she won't tolerate it! What kind of double standered is that!!!I still love him and I want him back, am I being foolish here? He said he never wanted to move in with her but I made him choose. How do you get over this PAIN!!<P>------------------<BR>

Sharlene,<P>Remember that none of this is your fault. You didn't invite or welcome this OW into your life. Your H brought her into your marriage.<P>Your H is the one who made the bad choice. It is not your fault. Remember that! It is not your fault!<P>Is it possible for you to go to therapy, or maybe a pastor or priest for support? We are here at MB too and we will help you get through this.

Shar,<P>It takes a LOT of time to get over the pain, and you just can't rush it.<P>Right now you are hurting like hell, and it's understandable. You love him, he broke your heart, and now he's moved in with the other skank (OS). On top of it all, he has been treating you like a dog for some time, hasn't he? <P>Here's what I say. Take care of YOU. Get strong and healthy again. If and when he returns, be sure what you expect, and I would assume that one thing you expect is for the OS to be completely out of the picture. He has more than punished you for his lack of integrity, and if your friend Pauline is right, you need to take care of your health and psyche.<P>You sound very, very sweet and patient. And I'm all for trying Plan A and/or Plan B when you aren't being abused. What he has done is ritualistically abuse you. It's time to take care of YOU now. <P>I am very sorry for your pain and suffering. But right now, you need to gain back your strength and take care of your girls.<P>Best wishes...

Sharlene,<P>I know you are hurting , we all understand.<P>I think at this point you need to do a strict plan B at this point. <P>First get in touch with your local legal aid service, they will work with you on a sliding scale payment system , you pay only what you can afford, file for custody of your children before you do anything else.<P>That way they are safe until you and h can work out a suitable agreement. If neither of you has custody the game of taking the kids back and forth can go on and on.<P>Next no contact at all with him. Let ow meet all his needs. Arrange for him to pick up and drop off the children at a friend or relatives house. This will give him a chance to miss you and to see that ow is NOT the prefect love goddess he seems to think she is.<P>I am sorry he has treated you so badly, you do deserve better. And look into some counseling. You need to learn why you seem (according to your friend) to be drawn to men who emotionally abuse you.<P>Make no mistake what your H has been doing is emotional abuse.<P>We are all here if you need/want someone to talk to. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Sharlene,<P>My H moved out and moved in with OW. I truly feel your pain. I mentally tortured myself for weeks. I lost weight, lost sleep and self respect for myself. I felt it was MY fault. <P>I am only five weeks into my ordeal. Some people would say I am actually doing a hundred percent turnaround from my severe depression. I could not afford to get meds for this so I had to do it alone.<P>If you can, please see a doctor, your health is important, don't let him rob you of this. I know a few people who took Prozac and Paxil and swear by it.<P>Also, I read His Needs Her Needs, This book put my marriage in a new perspective. I learned that I had been very abused for ten years compared to what a normal marriage can be. I also read Private Lies, by Pittman, recommended by my dear friend John. This was the first book I read. LEt me tell you, this really helped me understand that this is truly NOT my fault. Ok I had something to do with H being unhappy but a big part of it is H is unhappy with himself. But in all honesty, I was happy and he never let me know he was unhappy either. My case was a big surprise.He likes to put the blame on me, and justify his actions.<P>There is another forum I went on before called exwivesclub.com. I know it sounds contradictory to this site, for saving marriages, but some people over there are saving theirs too. One person gave really good advice, the first advice I ever took. Kill him with kindness. Always have the last thing said be positive, no matter how bad it hurts. Just so thats his last picture of you. I am no expert but maybe this Plan A can take on a new form now that you are seperated? I hope some veterans will offer some advice on that. I am trying to learn from everyone's experience. <P>I have been told that my H is filing for Divorce and marrying OW and having a baby (after his vasectomy is reversed). Do you know that I ended the call on a pleasant note, even though after I hung up and cried my eyes out. He called me later that day with some excuse, i couldn't tell you what, but ended the call saying "thank you and good bye" and I know his voice, he was puzzled!!!!!<P>I don't dare tell him this forum as he'll learn my secret strategy, but I am seeing it work. Not in the way that he is coming home, but I see it planting more and more doubts and confusion in his pea brain little head, maybe one day he'll think with the right pea brain head.<P>Surround yourself with friends, family and postitive experiences. Try to stay busy and keep a normal routine. Go to church. I found comfort in that. Read as much as you can on this subject. This may be a blessing in disguise, they haven't lived together yet. He may (and will) see this OW is no picnic and has NO RIGHT to be shelling out demands. THe grass is not greener on the other side!! I know, the OW told my H the same thing. You know what? It builds his anticipation and when he does see me he can hardly control himself. <P>See your doctor, meds can help the pain. Try not to sound really clingy , or pitiful when you talk, try and sound strong. My H can't stand when I get all teared up. He actually gets really mad *cause of his guilt. But he gets all the more confused when I am strong.<P>Keep us updated. I read all the posts above and have been learning of some of the other people's problems too. They are all giving you good advice. You will be in my prayers.<P>Oh, one last thing to the veterans out there, what do you think about Sharlene and H having sex? I know he can't see her, but I don't see this topic tackled too much and wonder now that the seperation has occured, if he wants to sleep with her, if you feel that is good or bad. NOT SCHEDULED, just spontaneous. Do you feel that maybe now he will have the time to miss Shar and in the end, maybe she can get herself a new perspective now that he is not living there. By the sounds of it, he might want to switch the roles a little. OW would be TICKED OFF,but oh well. <P>Sharlene, TRY TO KEEP YOUR HEALTH, I let mine go and am paying severly for it. Good luck .

lonelymom:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, one last thing to the veterans out there, what do you think about Sharlene and H having sex? I know he can't see her, but I don't see this topic tackled too much and wonder now that the seperation has occured, if he wants to sleep with her, if you feel that is good or bad. NOT SCHEDULED, just spontaneous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you're in Plan A (eliminating lovebusters, trying to meet emotional needs), and YOU'RE OK about having sex, then I'd say it's fine.<P>If you're in Plan A but sleeping with your wayward spouse will cause you resentment (and loss of love), then don't do it.<P>In Plan B, there's no contact. That's pretty self-explanatory... <P>And Sharlene---you haven't made your husband do anything. I think you probably should be in Plan B as well---eliminate contact with him. Encourage him to keep up with the children, however. And no dating or sharing problems with members of the opposite sex...<P>

Sharlene,<P>Listen to lonely mom. Everything she said is right on. Don't cry or show any inability to deal w/your situation around your H. Wait till he leaves to lose it unless you have little spies (your children) who might report that behavior. <P>I was so depressed and at such a loss, i tried to kill myself twice. It definitely drove my h to the OW. As I grew stronger and stopped contact w/him. He got more and more confused. I was able to finally do my kid transfers personally and the new person I am confused him more. I am not sure wether I am happy cause he is gone or the antidepressants I am taking. We are still getting a divorce, but I know that he wonders about us alot. He calls every once in awhile wondering if we are doing the right thing. It is about letting go. <P>I know that you are scared to death. It is scary being alone. But sweetie, you deserve better. You don't realize it and I didn't either, but you are in an abusize relationship. Healthy relationships don't look like yours. Take care of yourself and continue school. The pain does go away. Journaling helps you get through it. It is a phase and you will move on to other phases, like anger and sorrow. Be strong and keep posting!<P>Gerri

He came back last night.The OW told H that he could have no contact with me whatsoever and H said no deal and they agreed to tuesday and thursdays at her house and the rest with me. H says he loves me and I believe him and I love him more than I could possible describe. We did find out through this ordeal last night that she has not been truthful with H or me, she has been turning everything around to her benifit. So I believe the killing with kindness thing just my be my ticket! I am going to go back and read more of plan A and I have ordered the book "Surviveing and affair". I plan on reading everything I can get my hands on to make our marriage work and my H also agrees. Tell me what everyone thinks am I being a fool or do you believe in what I am doing? I feel I must fight for our marriage I love him to much to let him go.<P>------------------<BR>

Sharlene,<P>Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't understand why you are allowing and enabling your H's horrid behavior. Are you really going to agree to his arrangement to see you & OW?<P>Please, have respect for yourself. You deserve more than what you are getting. Do not allow yourself to be treated in this manner.