Hey Medic,<P>just got back from my weekend in Melb. There's an update if you're interested.<BR>I actually wanted to talk to you about this very subject. <P>What everyone has said is so true. I also have the type of personality that I would rather deal with 'something', and get it out of the way, than have it hanging over my head. Stewing, pondering, worrying, why just not deal with it?????<P>I also got tired of being the one who worked and worked and worked to resovle conflict in our house. We really didn't argue or disagree that much, but when we did, all he ever said was 'well, what do you want me to say..." OR "well, everything I say is wrong.." OR "you don't want to hear what I have to say...." OR, OR, OR, OR and the list goes on..<P>I got to the stage where if we disagreed, I also swept it under the carpet. I could not be bothered to be the only one to try and sort it out. I will certainly accept blame and fault there, I should have plugged away, but how do you make someone communicate effectively if <BR>a/ they don't know how, they never learned<BR>b/ it was never done in the childhood home<BR>c/ they don't want to<P>I also agree with what everyone said about them almost just existing, they're not grabbing life with both hands and running with it.<P>My attitude is that life is so short, and we only get one shot at it. I want to fill mine with love, laughter, family, friends and fun times... If we do that, the rest will come. I believe positive creates positive (all you rocket scientists and physisists out there will probably have something to say here..)<P>and when you are basically a positive happy person, good things come to you. For me, it is a simple as finding a carpark space when the whole shopping centre is jampacked... or getting all the green lights when you're in a rush.... etc etc. I have always managed to get jobs that I have wanted, sometimes not the first go, but I generally get there. I try to surround myself with positive happy people and it really does rub off.<P>Anyway, .02c isn't worth much with the exchange rate these days, but I agree with you all.<P>I also feel that this conflict avoidance stuff is something that they have to work out themselves. We can be there to support, offer encouragement, give them honest and open communication, but wait, I've done that for 12 years... Where do I go from here. I think this is a road he must travel himself.<P>thanks for this<P>Jo

I guess I'm taking the conflict avoiders side on this issue. In my case, everything to my x was a conflict. She expected to be treated certain ways and when she wasn't, then it was a problem she brought home.<P>I stopped communicating with her about any problems I had at work because then she though I was going to get fired, when in fact I was one of my boss's top guys. She didn't understand then why wasn't I recognized as that and promoted. The reason was I don't want a management job. So when she kept thinking I was going to get fired, guess what I quit bringing it up.<P>As far as having no zest for life. I have a lot of zest. But going out to dinner and a movie does get old. When we would go out, which was limited to every other weekend because of her work, the only thing she wanted to talk about was her job and her problems at work, again my job was off limits beacuse of the above and the fact she never showed any interest. We never went bowling,or sporting events because she doesn't like sports. We didn't play cards or board games with others because she didn't like them.<P>When we did do something different, we always had to get back early for the kids.<P><BR>Also because I traveled heavily the last 3 yrs, I didn't always feel like going anywhere.<P><BR>So I have to disagree with its the conflict avoiders fault. Someone told me, my SIL actually, that she was suprised I wasn't the one to have an affair.<P>I think it does come down to honesty and communication. I was not honest with my x back then and my interpersonal communication skills are weak. It that family thing, I only saw my parents fight once. I never saw them kiss either so I'm not real big on affection (I am dying for some now though!).<P>Unfortunetly (for her) I didn't learn all this till after my x's affair and she was unwilling to see if I could change.<P><P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Medic---<P>Ever thought about going into counseling?? I think you have made a major discovery here!!!!<P>My W is the ultimate conflict avoider (now known as CA). Her theory is that if you don't talk about it, acknowledge it, or discuss it, then it will go away!!! <P>I think that is why I am having such a hard time with all of this. I want to get to the root of the problem and fix it, while she is hoping that everything "will pass with time."<P>Keep up the analyzing!!!!!<P>Doug<BR><P>------------------<BR>Don't give up...don't ever give up!" --Jimmy Valvano

It doesn't really matters who was the conflict avoider <B>BEFORE</B> the affair (in our case I pledge guilty), but really <B>what happens during/after the course of the affair</B>; woozy gets right to the point:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B>...he chose to go live with the other woman because it was so much easier than having to work on our relationship. TOO MUCH CONFLICT THERE! He just couldn't face the amount of work he thought it was going to take...</B><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>During the month following my W's "confession" I used to tell her that she is lazy for not wanting to work on our relationship… until today she still complains about things as if everything was "normal" and we were just having a conversation, but refuses to work on these issues.<P>The betrayer spouse <B> believes that walking away from the marriage is the easiest thing, while at the end it's the worst because by doing so behavioral problems are not addressed properly.</B> The truth is, the betrayer carries into his/her next relationship (including the affair) a bag full of garbage that has to be disposed, but he/she doesn't seem to acknowledge this.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B><p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited February 27, 2000).]

thisalex,<P>I think my husband acknowledges that he is a conflict avoider and might be dealing with it in his counseling sessions. But I got the feeling from him that he is going to counseling to make the relationship with the OP better and not this one. Does this make sense??????

Well, I just picked up "Lovebusters" yesterday, and read 3/4 of it so I can offer another perspective on this issue. <P>Conflict avoiders also tend to be protective liars as well as stay-out of trouble liars. (Sorry no political correctness today) They lie to avoid the conflict. This dishonesty sets them up for an affair. The way to combat is to be honest. From the very beginning. Ok we can't control their being honest, but here's what we can do. (According to lovebusters as I understand it.) We can make sure that we are creating an environment where honesty is safe. They will be honest at times. We just need to tune in our radars and make sure that that honesty is rewarded. (I.e. we show them how much we appreciate their honesty.) They are avoiding the conflict, so we need to decide how to temper the conflict so it's less scary. (And temper it in a productive way that doesn't cause us to avoid it ourselves.) I'm still working on that one. I think it's a skill that is going to take me some time to get the hang of. <P>Anyway, my take. My husband is a huge conflict avoider. (Also incredibly introverted.) He grew up in a highly critical environment, and well I have that tendency monster as well...Those times when I am less critical he opens up not only to me, but to the world at large as well. Now that I think about it, the experience of his losing his job last year was also a highly critically charged experience. All of this spun him into a pattern of withdrawal, conflict avoidance, and deceit. Thus the affair. Hmmmmm.

Claudia,<P>Yes, it makes sense. Your H is avoiding the conflict & work involved in trying to reconcile with you, while he is probably trying, in the relationship with the OW, to avoid his past mistakes. Still, this relationship with the OW was born out of a lie and most likely he is not addressing this fact.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>

Sometimes it is easier to see something in someone else than to recognize it in you.<P>Both my wife and I are CA's, but in varing degrees and in different situations (or even different times). At work I'm very direct and decission oriented, yet at home I revert to a more passive/agressive mode (what an over used term). I try to avoid any type of conflict that will make others uncomfortable. As my son told me, "you try to make everyone happy but all you are getting are smiles." He's right. In order to maintain what I consider the best (notice I didn't say what we considered the best) route to go, I would even stoop to lying. Better to not let everyone know what is going on and hope it blows over or I can fix it. Poor thought process!<P>My wife on the other hand would bring up conflict "topics" at home and if we started to get into them, she would clam-up and refuse to continue the discussion. Her idea of meeting conflict was to express her point and than go no further and expect a change. She met her work conflicts the same way. If everything was going her way, fine; if not quit!<P>So no, not only is CA found in the betrayer, but also in the betrayed. And, this makes it hard to work with the conflict, marriage.<P>Woozy and T.Alex are right and I can see myself and my wife in bonnet's reply.<P>

Zip - My W and I don't fit the theory too well either. (But it still may be true in MANY cases.)<P>For about the first 6 months of our relationship, while we were still courting, I was a conflict avoider not because that's my basic personality, but simply because I was so nuts about this woman that I didn't want to do anything to spoil what was happening. <P>My betraying W is anything BUT a conflict avoider. In fact, during the last couple of years of our marriage, she's actually gone out of her way to start bogus fights over just about anything at all. And when that started happening, there wasn't any WAY for ME to avoid conflict either! So I just rolled up my sleeves and went toe to toe with her verbally. <P>Now I think that a lot of those bogus fights which she started were just to give her an excuse to keep her distance so that she could save herself for the OM. <P>--Wex<P>

Beth writes: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Conflict avoiders also tend to be protective liars as well as stay-out of trouble liars. (Sorry no political correctness today) They lie to avoid the conflict. This dishonesty sets them up for an affair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Boy, does this sound familiar!!! The earliest and most consistent problem in our marriage has been that David will lie about little, unimportant things so as not to upset anyone. Unfortunately, honesty is very important to me, and so this did a lot of damage.<P>Conflict Avoiders also spend so much time avoiding conflict they often do not really know or express what they want and need in a relationship, despite being vaguely unhappy...which sets them up for an affair. The new person seems to fit their needs, make them feel more alive, and it sure is easier than working on things, isn't it?<P><BR>

I think you're onto something here. My wife has always been a conflict avoider, and a non-negotiator. Rather than talk about our problems, or honestly respond when I brought them up, my wife chose to withdraw. <P>She just started shutting down our relationship: companionship, family activities, affection, intimacy, sex, till there was nothing left. Along the way she had an EA which edged into a PA before it stopped. <P>Now she has anounced she wants out of the marriage, but in typical confict avoidance style, is very reluctant to talk about why, and refuses to commit to saving the marriage.<P>The irony of conflict avoidance is that they don't succeed in avoiding conflict forever. Inevitably, a big crisis will come and all the conflicts start to pour out. It can be overwhelming.

My H is obviously a "conflict avoider". I have been making his life miserable for 15 years but he never thought to bring it up or mention it to me until after his affair. Funny how that works isn't it?<P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com