I hate to bring up something you may not have thought about, but... maybe it will help you. I was sure at one point in time that my H was too close to his co-worker and thought constantly that she was out to seduce him. I even asked him point blank if he was sleeping with her. I brought it up verbally/nonverbally MANY times. <P>This is the slap in the face. My H did indeed have an affair. Not with the woman I suspected, but a stranger he met by chance!<P>Moral of the story is this... I knew our marriage was in trouble or I wouldn't have suspected him with co-worker. Thought I could keep tabs on that situation and then wham! someone sneaks in the back door. It may not be about this woman herself but about unfulfilled needs in his relationship with you. <P>Don't be so busy watching the front door that you don't have time to watch what's going on in your house and someone sneaks in the back!!!!!!!

I know this is going to be hard for you, but I found that after 2 weeks of not eating, not sleeping and crying all the time I was ok. For the past 2 weeks I've been happy and carefree. I've lost about 10 pounds and people have noticed. I got a rose from a guy at work yesterday and my H found out. (he's supposed to move out the first, in with the OW). He says that I look really good and is confused as to why I am so happy and don't care if he leaves. Let me tell you I'm really confused about this myself. But now he knows others are interested in me and he's not sure if he's going to move out. He told me that reality has set in and he's really confused and he doesn't really want her. <BR>This may not work for you, but try and see if it affects him if you go out with friends and have fun. Try not to get those LB's going and see if maybe you can become that person you use to be. I know that we can't always go back to who we were but what changed? <BR>I'm sure some of you will be like this is bad advice, but not really. It's still part of Plan A. I don't ask questions anymore and he tells me everything. Who knows maybe I have a rare situation.

Correct, we're not married (by mutual agreement). However, I can't call his behavior (to date, anyway) "inappropriate"; it is she who is making moves, in my opinion, and my guy (being a guy) just doesn't see it. I'm afraid that the combination of her deposit love units (she has ample opportunity) with his even being aware of it AND my doing lovebusters in my panic and anger over this situation (I can't seem to help it) will result in disaster. I need to know how to conduct myself and strengthen OUR bond during this period during which I can do nothing but wait and see if something more develops between them or not. The last suggestion sounds a little like game-playing? We're honest with each other (so far, at least)!

Honest with each other,maybe? You sound as if you really can't be 100% sure of that,and he certainly isn't being very considerate of your feelings,or he would address then instead of dismissing them. That alone is a red flag that something is up.If he had no attatchment to her,he would not hesitate to actively curtail her inappropriateness,even if he himself has done nothing inappropriate. In a nutshell, if he cared deeply about your feelings regarding this,and did not want to see you so upset and consumed by this,he would DO something.He obviously is getting SOMETHING out of the situation that feels good to him and that he doesn't want to curtail.What that SOMETHING is ?????? Don't be so quick to just blame OW. He is a grown man and can control the situation if he so chooses. <BR>

As hard as it is for you to do right now, try to concentrate on doing things to make yourself feel good. Go workout at a gym, go for walks, go shopping and get yourself something that looks fantastic on you! Do whatever it takes (within reason....) to boost your self-esteem. Start thinking about you! And, as I suggested earlier to someone else, seek out a GOOD counselor. Not a marriage counselor, but someone YOU can turn to. My counselor has been a true God send--she's been there for me when my world was falling apart around me and when I just needed to talk to someone who'll listen. Do it for YOU. YOU need to think you're worth it, or why should HE??? Keep your chin up, don't let him or "her" take away your control over your life by being top priority--make YOURSELF top! By the way, is OW married or single?? <p>[This message has been edited by WoundedHeart (edited March 23, 2000).]

Thanks for the good advice, Woundedheart; makes sense. To answer your question, she's married, but her history suggests she doesn't take that commitment very seriously. Next question: to let him talk about work (and her) sets me off and results in my doing lovebusters; to discourage him from talking about her (and work; they're interelated) breaks down communication between us. Which would be better for the survival of our relationship?

quandry<P>I have to tell you that my H and Op are now in a truly obsessive unhealthy relationship. THey are almost "merged". <P>They work closely and have for a few years. I have always warned him about her>(He is very naive....obviously i underestimated the damage addiction can cause) He always dismissed my worries and I always believed him because he told me he loved me and acted like it.<P><BR>There has been a lot of stress in my H work environment and he has worked incredibly hard for a few years. Many hours with the OP who I think has been after him. <P>They went on a week business trip and that was the end of life as me and my kids new it.<P>He is polar opposite of himself and things keep getting worse. <P>I would do whatever you could to stop this relationship with your H and OP. Maybe you can show him some of the info here. Or at least the last chapter in Surviving an Affair where they talk about protecting your love bank. Because it can happen and it is truly destructive. <P>I think In my case there is some underlying covert depression but just the same it is truly devastating to me and the kids.<P>Good luck. I'll keep watching your posts and let you know what is happening here. I am about 4 months into discovery but 2 months since he moved out. I am about ready to make a move here to demand some respect without love busting. <P>H really needs a reality check because he is living in a miserable fantasy!!!!

Quandry, what is it about the OP that you think is attracting him? What do you think is MORE attractive about her than you?? How long have you two been together? Do you have a personal life outside this relationship? Sorry to throw a bunch of questions back at you, but I have to have a little background in order to try to help. I hope, though, that you will take my advice about seeking a counselor--trust me on this one, it will make a world of difference in the way you feel about yourself and help you handle this situation more to your advantage than the OP's.<P>------------------<BR>Wounds within take longer to heal....

Quandry, I do have some advice for you, but can't reply in depth now. Sit tight; I'll be back.

Don't mind answering questions (makes me feel like a celeb): We've been together for a number of years now, and I guess the main advantage I feel she has over me is simply time and exposure; suffice it to say he has a VERY full life, is VERY busy (it's all legit; not barhopping w/ the boys or anything), and the amount of time we get to spend together has always been "an issue." I guess I'm mostly threatened by the fact that she HAS him most of the day (and sometimes nights, when they travel), whereas I feel the little I get isn't enough to keep us close and strong. Additionally, everyone knows that the "work face" - always pleasant, always affirming, always entertaining - can be much more appealing that the real-life problems all couples face at home. So I guess it's just that she has ample opportunity to deposit love units (w/o his even realizing it), whereas our time is very limited and isn't always Disneyland (that's inevitable). And my being freaked about this just makes it worse; I now spend our precious hours lovebusting. Finding diversions and a counselor for support are both good suggestions; thanks.<p>[This message has been edited by quandry (edited March 24, 2000).]

I'm afraid I can't tell you how to get there, but at least help you focus on the goal:<P>Like many on this board, I am on the other side of infidelity. Don't "wait it out".<P>Harley has four rules. Besides avoiding LBs and meeting ENs, there is honesty and time.<P>It sounds from your last reply you may not be spending anywhere near 15 hours having fun together. What can you do on your side to up the time??<P>Leaving a job is not usually the solution. If you were following POJA, what solution would you be enthusiastic with?? What changes can he make?? It would be pro-active if you presented some possible solutions rather than lbing as you said you had done.<P>My h has always set up his life to avoid others "depositing love units". Another reason I was so totally shocked. No, he admits when a time came that he felt miserable, he went looking for the affair.<P>Mostly the things in the SAA book: not riding in the car, going to lunch, etc. except when he has to for bus. Still not "waterproof".<P>How I would talk to him:<P>Do place the emphasis on your relationship, and your feelings when discussing it with him. Not that you don't trust him, but that you don't feel comfortable with things the way they are. It would make you happy if you could both figure out a better way to schedule your lives, etc. ( to include your time and any ways to distance himself from her).

Thanks for the reply and tips; I do want to be proactive rather than just sit around feeling like a victim and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Not going to lunch, not riding in a car, etc., are all things I've asked of him, but he tells me those requests are unrealistic, and of course I realize they are. These things are part of his job; their JOBS entail riding in a car together (which necessarily includes having lunch together and almost certainly talking about more than the weather after awhile). I think modern work practices really suck, as they do, in many instances, throw potential "partners" together; how many affairs have started on business trips. If she wants him, she's got a great shot at him. All I can do is make HIM want ME more, and that's what I need help with.

If you can just overcome the LB's (and I know it won't be easy....), be loving, patient, and understanding WHENEVER the two of you are together...what do you think would happen?? It just might be that he'd start spending more time with you and less with the "distractions." When was the last time the two of you went away for a romantic weekend? Why not look into some of the "Weekend Getaways" that many of the big hotel chains advertise and then suggest the two of you take advantage of one. Tell him you've been feeling "a bit down" lately and you'd really love for the two of you to get away. Then, if he agrees to go, ask him to promise you that just for this weekend there will be NO mention of work or related topics. (And YOU promise him the same!) Try concentrating on the love and romance you two have shared and don't let the OP come up in mind or spirit--just enjoy being together and having fun! Might be you two can restore some of the LU's lost and even add a few more! <P>You still didn't answer my question, "What do YOU do for a personal life outside your relationship?" Also, do you have any children? If so, how old are they?<P>------------------<BR>Wounds within take longer to heal....

WoundedHeart, to answer your question, I have a few close friends, but am basically introverted and a homebody. Enjoy solitary activities, and no kids. If this is going to be your advice, it won't be the first time I've been advised to "get a life" to make him jealous, etc., but I'm not into game-playing. And I simply have no interest in leading a frentic single life; been there, done that. I want to be half of a couple; that's the lifestyle I choose. I just don't want three of us in this relationship!!!

Yes, work on your relationship.<P>Are you sure they HAVE to do all those things together? I worked for 7 years in an environment where I travelled and dined with co-workers. Even there I didn't HAVE to. There was one man who was a loner and rarely joined us. But we were in groups, not pairs.<P>I'll get flamed for sure, but yes, it is bad the way things are at the work place, but it is a direct result of women joining it as they have.

I'm a woman myself and hate to speak ill of my own kind, but I totally agree; working in a crowded office is one thing, but in jobs like my guy's - in which a man is paired up to work w/ a woman (they're partners) AND must travel (I guess they could sit at opposite ends of the restaurant when they eat on the road, but that's not very realistic), it's inevitable that they will become good friends, at the very least. Very dangerous trend for marriage.

I don't advocate playing mindgames or trying to make your SO jealous and I don't think that anyone else has either (from what I've read). I believe the message here is to try to stop driving yourself nuts worrying about something that cannot be changed, i.e. SO having to work closely with this woman. If you've voiced your concerns to him regarding this, what else can be done at this point? If you continually bring it up, it will be considered by him a MAJOR LB. <P>Like others have noted, the relationship with him is the main issue and working on improving that aspect should be the goal here. Trust seems to be a factor for you, since it does seem as if you don't trust him. I don't remember reading if you said you had a counselor. Are you currently seeing one? That may be a start. And planning a getaway or dates (something different) with him, as another person suggested is a great idea. I can certainly understand your concern, but once you've voiced these concerns to your SO, the next step should be to change the focus to work on those issues that make you feel as if you need to be worried about this situation. Take care.

I wasn't going to say "Get a life," I was just going to suggest that you try to spend time with your circle of friends rather than sit home and brood over this. I've found that all I usually have to do to get a LIFT is just visit with a close friend or go somewhere I want to go--even a movie by myself (a COMEDY, of course!!). Usually I'll invite my H, by saying "I'm going to "whatever," you're welcome to come or I'll just go by myself." Nine times out of ten, he's said "Well, if you're going, I'm going." As for being an introvert, I think all of us are introverts to a degree. We all need our space at times--it's healthy! As for trying to make him jealous by playing games...not a good plan. Honesty really IS the best policy, and playing games (in MY mind anyways) is a form of dishonesty. <P>Sorry for rambling...when what I really meant to emphasize to you is the importance of keeping yourself healthy by doing things that make you feel good. <P>------------------<BR>Wounds within take longer to heal....

I have to tell you that I truly trusted my H. We had what appeared to me and everyone in our family a pretty good relationship.<P>The work environment has been such the last few years of placing them together too many hours a day. They also lunched together and rode in a car together. Now they are co-dependent and it is really really icky.<P>I should have become concerned when my H began telling me too many details of her unhappy marraige. He started to sound too concerned about her well being. I actually think this thing started without him realizing it. Because he is also addicted to work right now.<P>One thing that I think in retrospect is that I should have pursued a better or stronger relationship with her. I keep thinking that maybe if she got to know me as a person she would have thought betteer. <P>I had a similar situation when I was in my late 20's with a married co-worker who was interested in me. He even snuck a kiss on the lips one night at a party. I avoided him and became friends with his wife whoo also worked with us. She and I started doing some activities together. I know it helped me, because quite truthfully, I thought her husband was attractive.<P>In my case it may not have worked anyway. I thing this OP has really been after my H. and wouldn't care. But it was just an extra thought.<P>I do think you may want to caution your SO about the types of conversations they have. Believe me, with enough time anything is possible.

Having been through this sort of thing, I disagree with many of the posters here.<P>Every situation is different, but yours sounds very much like mine:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, recent events have pretty much confirmed in my mind that this coworker is indeed pursuing at least an emotional affair w/ my guy and that their relationship is closer than it should be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Been there, done that. In my case, co-worker went from being "a twit" to "Oh, poor Dragon Lady she's in some trouble and they might take her kid away, to long phone conversations and E-mail to a business trip to San Francisco after which H decided our sex life needed spicing up.<P>My first attempt to discuss the situation was met, as you've experienced, with "You don't trust me." So were my second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. attempts.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I almost feel as if she's now embodying all the qualities I used to have that made him fall in love with me, while I seem to have lost them; <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Recognizing that is half your battle. In my case, it's that my H needs a lot of attention, support, and reassurance, esp. when he has job stress. At that time, I wasn't giving it to him; she was.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm freaked out by this to the point that I no longer recognize myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Also been there, done that, bought the "I Love Hell" ashtray. I had never, ever been insecure or doubted my H in my life. Now I was suspicious all the time, crying for no reason.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Instead of calmly Plan A'ing, I instead think about it constantly, feel her "presence" between us, imagine conversations and interactions between them, and am basically falling apart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is where you need counseling. I coped alone OK (they stopped working together August 1998), but when she got him a job at one of her clients, it started up again....and I went into therapy.<P>You need to find a cognitive-approach therapist who can help you detect these thought patterns and divert them. You may also have some self-esteem issues to deal with. You'll also learn that you can't change what he does, you can only change what you do.<P>Is there anything else bothering you that might be making you fixate on this? For me, any time anything else bothers me, I fixate on Dragon Lady. Now I know that when I'm thinking about it, there's something else I need to look at.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Due to recent health problems, our sex life has suffered, and I'm depressed and much less fun to be around than she. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well the sex is the first thing you need to work on. Whose health problems are the problem? Yours? What can be done?<P>Perhaps you need to get on meds to stabilize you so you can start working on Plan A. If not, try St. John's Wort. But get a counselor...soon.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I really don't believe this will culminate in a sexual affair (she's his employee, and he's too responsible for that), but he doesn't see the inappropirateness of her "advances," nor their growing bond, nor its effect on me and our relationship (or claims not to, anyway). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They never do. They think "I'd never do that." They also think if it's not the horizontal mambo, it's not inappropriate. Mine sure didn't...doesn't to this day.<P>But the bottom line is this: If their bond is growing, it's because he gets something from her that he doesn't get from you. I think you already know what those things are. You can do a twofold plan A -- avoid lovebusters AND fill the ol' bank.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I bring the subject up daily, question him constantly, and get into arguments with him about my not "trusting" him, in which he ends up defending her. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yikes! Are you and I the same person? You want reassurance, but I'll tell you a secret. He can reassure you till the cows come home and you won't believe it. So cut it out! Stop! Recognize that it's a lovebuster and doesn't help you either. It doesn't matter what you're saying, what he's hearing is "You don't trust me." It's like that Far Side cartoon where the guy is saying "Bad dog, Ginger...you're a very bad dog, Ginger, how can you be so bad, Ginger." And all the dog hears is "Blah blah Ginger blah Ginger blah blah blah Ginger."<P>Go out and buy Susan Page's book HOW ONE OF YOU CAN BRING BOTH OF YOU TOGETHER. Read the Harley stuff. Do something nice for you; that makes you feel good about you. I went for long walks every morning and did a lot of writing. Spend more time with your H. Plan some fun outings. The idea about a romantic "getaway" weekend is a good one. We started doing that last summer. Plan hikes, followed by brunch on nice days. Use your imagination to come up with fun things to do. <P>My H and I used to stay home weekend after weekend. Now I try to plan SOMETHING for every weekend, even if it's just going out to dinner.<P>Kill him with kindness. Treat him as you did in the beginning. Show him that YOU'RE the one that's worth being with.<P>It ain't easy, kiddo. I was lucky; I got results very quickly. And even so, I still worried.<P>Ultimately, after we were well into a recovery period (which means that contact was minimal, our relationship was better, and we were even communicating better), she called the house....again. And I couldn't take it. I ended up writing him a 2-page, single-spaced letter explaining exactly what bothered me. It was calm, rational, and non-accusatory. I ran it through six friends and this board before giving it to him.<P>He was angry. But after that, when she DID call, she'd acknowledge me by name, and started treating us like a couple for the first time.<P>I guess I got through.<P>Quandry, if you need to talk, E-mail me: filmgeek55@hotmail.com.