Hi. (This is also posted as a response in my previous thread -- the "mega-mess" thread)<P>Well, now I know I'm not completely NUTS. Now I know that I'm not just imagining that I'm being ignored by my husband.<P>We had company last night -- friends came over to watch the basketball game. During a commercial when no one was talking or watching the game, I asked my husband, "What would you like to drink? Would you like water, Sprite or a fruit juice?" My husband just sat there as if he heard nothing. I repeated my question twice more. I was so embarrassed -- the room was completely quiet except for the TV commercials. My friend's husband finally asked, "Are you EVER going to answer Jill? She's asked you three times what you want to drink and you're just sitting there." Then, my friend said, "I was just sitting here wondering the same thing...are you going to answer her, or are you going to sit there?" Finally, my husband mumbled, "Water."<P>I was so humiliated. I was on the brink of tears.<P>This morning, my husband tried to hug me and I said, "I'm sorry, but I really do not want a hug from you right now." He said, "What did I do? I just got out of bed. How can you possibly be mad at me already?" I said, "That's really my fault. I went to bed angry with you and I shouldn't have." I calmly recounted last night's events to him. I calmly explained to him how I felt humiliated and ignored.<P>You know what he did? He walked away and went to work. Now, I'm sitting here. I'm trying to get ready to start my day at school. I feel hurt and lonely and angry and tired...and nobody even cares. It takes a ton of pressure and pain to make me cry. You know what? I'm crying.<P>Yes, I'm vulnerable. No, I'm not vulnerable enough to turn to another man for comfort.<P>You know what? Regardless of the whole his needs/her needs thing, the last time I checked, it's common courtesy to answer someone when they are speaking to you -- a courtesy that is even paid to strangers on the street. Acknowledging someone's presence is just the decent/human thing to do.<P>I guess I shouldn't have been so hopeful when I saw my husband reading "His Needs/Her Needs".<P>Regardless of my affair...regardless of anything else...I can't be ignored and neglected for much longer.<P>My DOGS love me more than my husband does.<P>Jill<P>

Jill,<BR>I'm so sorry. I wish I had some wise words to make everything ok, but I don't. Try and be strong. I'm here for you, anytime. I love you man!!!<P>------------------<BR>You can't live with them, you can't kill them!<BR>Viki

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>So, sorry, Hon. They can be tough, sometimes, can't they?<P>You know, Robert was always an awful lot like that. He would get his mind in some direction and not even realize he was being rude or mean. And to tell him! You know, the man who was always there if anyone ELSE hurt my feelings would do just what your H did...just turn and walk away if I told him about something HE had done to hurt me.<P>Since we've gotten back together, we've talked about it. And we've both learned a lot. I try NOT to let little bouts of rudeness bother me, though they're not very many, he's trying hard now, too. And, instead of saying "you hurt my feelings", I say, "I'm having a moment." He understands it means I'm insecure for some reason and, since I'm not directly accusing him, he's reassuring and supportive. He DOES figure out that something he did or said is the reason and lets me know he's sorry eventually....but only because I don't point it out to him. AAAUUUUUGGGHHHHH! <P>This is working for us. I changed my reactions and behavior, he changed his. And we're both getting what we need. So we're both happy. Little changes.<P>You're working so hard, but just hang in there, ok? Maybe you guys will be able to find the "formula" to work for both of you too.<P>Lori

LostVa,<P>Good lord, that takes so much strength. I would go nuts living a lifetime of having to play that game. I would much rather just be able to say directly "It hurts when you do this" and for him to say "I'm sorry, I won't do that." and then not do that.<P>Why is it so hard for guys to "get it" when you tell them something directly? If I did something that hurt a loved one's feelings, I would want to be told directly. It hurts my brain too much to have to try to guess and figure it out.

truthseeker, you know, I always felt that exact same way, but now I discover that it's not a big deal. "I'm having a moment" IS my way of saying I'm hurt...I only use that phrase if it's something HE did. With anything else, I can tell him directly. So, it's just a different group of words, but a group that HE can handle more easily. I thought it was stupid, but it's easy and it works! And it DOES prompt "did I hurt your feeling, Baby?" a whole lot. And then, if he initiates the conversation, we can talk.<P>At first I thought it would be a pain, now, not a big deal....and it satisfies both of us.<P>Lori<P>

Jill,<BR>I see shades of my X in your H... the main difference was that he never did that to me in public (or with others around). He was very good at putting on a "public face".<P>I think the <B>MAIN</B> difference is that you H doesn't realize he is doing it. Because my X only pulled that kind of stunt when we were alone, I think, at least on some level, he did it intentionally. <P>I'm sorry you are having such a rough time right now....<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>thoughts & prayers,<BR>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

Hey Jill,<P>I can truly relate to what you are saying. I'm at a place where I'm feeling very frustrated and worn out with the whole situation too.<P>I know that most of your posts have been about your affair, but I'm sure that you realize that the affair was a reaction to a deeper problem in your relationship.<P>So, once again, I'm going to repeat the advice that I always see on this site. Ask your husband to make an agreement with you to try to improve your marriage and go to a counselor together. Work on the problems that exist in your relationship separate from the affair.<P>You should not have to tolerate any treatment that makes you unhappy, but the problems will not go away on their own. Let's face it, sometimes men (and women) just don't get it, and if it is not important to them they don't see any reason to change.<P>You must let your feelings be known and stand up for yourself. If not, the resentment will grow to unmanageable proportions and destroy what's left of your relationship.<P>I wish the best for you. From personal experience I know that this is very hard to tolerate.<P>Peppermint

Jill,<P>Perhaps he is "distant" because of what you have been going through & he knows "something" hasn't been right in the relationship for some time.<P>I know of a few other marriages where a spouse had an affair, decided to fess up & work on the issues. When they did, the other spouse who had begun pulling away said, "Surprise, I've been having an affair for the last 5 months because you were not "available" in our relationship & I didn't know how to fix anything. I thought you didn't care."<P>Not to say he is having an affair, but he very likely has noticed all the changes in you, which you tried to hide or minimize, & he hasn't understood what to do or what was going on. I know I was going crazy for the 3 months before I found out about my wife.<P>Just some thoughts.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I'm sorry Jill. Boy that's frustrating. Looking at a possible sunny side of the behavior though it might be because he has been doing a bunch of introspection (a good thing) and is a little scared to open up. He chooses silence instead of talking about it and hurting you. That is certainly not a state we want any of our men to remain in long, but his intentions for not responding probably weren't because he wanted to ignore you, but because he didn't know how to answer you in a way that wouldn't provoke a conflict. Last night? I'm assuming you were watching the Florida, Michigan State game. I asked my husband a question too during a break. It took two trials before he heard it. I think he was still replaying the referee job. He was mighty upset with them.

Jill:<P>As a man, I am very hard on other men (husbands). I know from own experience, how I had something beautiful from God and I abused it and destroyed it.<P>When I finally woke up it was too late! I know it takes 2 in a marriage, but I failed as a husband and man of God. Guess I thought my wife would always be there and I took her for granted.<P>Now she is my "ex" (I hate that word) so I choose to use the term "former" after nearly 34 years of marriage.<P>Unfortunately most men (I'd say 95%+) do not wake up until it is too late! <P>I have said it before and I will say it again, most men are 'jerks' and 'wimps' and do not have enough brains to come in out of the rain!<P>This is why that statement "Behind every successful man is a good woman" is so very true!<P>When the Bible says the woman is the 'weaker' sex....it is only talking PHYSICALLY! I believe in every other area, a woman is stronger than a man and would make a better head of the home.<P>However, God has a sense of humor and he appointed the man as head of the home, intending that the man would humble himself, fall on his face and cry out to God and tell Him "Lord, I don't know how to lead, how to be the husband/father/lover I need to be..please help me".<P>Therefore I feel the Lord appointed the man as head of the home, not because he was 'more' qualified..but actually least qualified.<P>Then, even though the woman, who is more naturally able/gifted to lead, more qualified; she has to submit to her husband.<BR>This is intended to break her pride.<P>Anyway....I am a strong advocate of the equality of men/women. One time I sensed the Lord showed me the only reason He differentiated between a man/woman in His word was for OUR sake and not HIS.<P>For IN CHRIST, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE.<P>I also believe SUBMISSION is meant to work both ways! A man must submit to his wife as her brother in Christ and joint-heir of the grace of God.<P>I said all of this to say I am grieved to think at the extent of wake-up call it will take for your husband before it is too late.<P>God has been teaching me over the past 4+ years what it means to really love a wife as Christ loved the church and that is why I have cried out for a 2d chance to do things right.<P>I feel He has given B....to me and that in time we will be married. I want to live the rest of my life reversing all the mistakes I made in my 1st marriage.<P>I desire to serve, love, honor, esteem, value, protect and cherish my wife! I had to lose everything to finally wake up and begin to become the man I should have been all those years.<P>When God gets ready to put a home/marriage back in order...He ALWAYS begins with the MAN. He will deal with and crush the man and then begin putting him back together.<P>The best thing a man (or even a woman) can do is to yield to the dealings of God, not matter how painful they may seem.<P>Oh..could I write a Best Seller on "How to fail at Marriage"....but as I wait for my blessed 2d chance....I believe some day, I could write a Best Seller entitled "How to Succeed in Marriage".<P>The greatest desire of my heart is that someday, somewhere, in church or a public setting of some sort; my wife will stand up and declare "My husband is a man of God, my husband is totally in love with Jesus and my husband truly loves me as Christ loves the church".<P>I wish I could reach through this computer, all the way into Louisiana, wherever your husband is...and just shake him real hard!<P>After years, years of angry, violent, twisted and perverse behavior....I praise God He has broken me (and continues to break me) and given me such an appreciation for words like: gentleness, kindess, tenderness, caressing and passion.<P>Oh to any man reading this post...please wake up and become the man of God, husband and lover God intends you to be before it is too late!<P>Jill, this doesn't excuse you to sin, for 2 wrongs do not make a right....you still have to answer to God for your behavior/actions; I pray somehow, someway, your husband will wake up before it is too late because you sound like a very special person who is being ignored and taken for granted.<P>Blessings upon you and Grace from Our Lord Jesus Christ.....<P>[censored] from Texas<BR><p>[This message has been edited by [censored] (edited April 04, 2000).]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I am SO SORRY. And, I DO care, as I know so many others here do.<P>At least you've got dogs !!!<P>Back to seriousness...He sounds depressed. Not an excuse, or meaning you have to put up with it, but he does. Whether that is it or not, you DO deserve common courtesy. <P>You are a wonderful, caring person. Your intelligence and personality shine thru on your posts. Don't let his behavior dim your own view of yourself... <P>lots of ehugs--<BR>Kathi

Jill<BR>Sorry you are feeling neglected.<P>Do you think there is anyway your H "discovered" you were posting here and read your story?<P>Just a thought.<P>Hugs<P>Cat

Jill: I remember those days when my spouse and I were younger and then again after our bad year. Before when we were younger, I finally got tired of fighting a brick wall, I ended up going the other direction which hurt me to some extent, but also helped me grow up and stand up on my own feet. This last time, I fought back, however, my own mental ability was on the edge and still is. I reminded him that it takes two to make or break a marriage at least in our case. I did not get to this place by myself. He told me some hateful and hurtful things to make it look that I was to blame. I will admit I did make some pretty crappy decisions, but I will not take all the blame. I told him I want our marriage to work and that I love him dearly, but we are going to work on this together. He has to talk to me and I to him. So I will ask him how his day is going. I will let him tell me about every little nonsense thing that happened at work and I listen. I will also talk to him and sometimes he has a habit of interrupting. So I tell him firmly that when he's done, I will tell him about my day. It can be now or when he is sitting on the pot, but I will get my two cents in. We have talked even while one of us is in the bathroom. I don't know if this is good advice for you, but I felt that dammit we are going to learn to talk to each other and build our friendship and trust in each other. I made a mistake, we made a mistake in our marriage. What can we do to learn from our mistakes and rebuild ourselves together? Whatever you do, stay strong. He has to also make an effort with you. This ignoring you publicly or walking away is (I hate to say this) but going to drive you away again but not to the arms of another OP(hopefully). Is he testing you? Is he still angry with you? Does he even know about the OP? I can't remember if you told him. I will keep you in my prayers.

Hi Jill,<P>I am late for an appt, so this isn't well thought out, but I wanted to try to help.<P>1. Try not to look at Hs bad behavior out of context. It is obviously related to other problems in your relationship. Immature? Yeah, for sure. But sometimes that sort of thing indicates an inability to come up with a better response at the moment. It is really a cry for help.<P>2. You continue to have the benefit of having worked through and come to grips with your betrayal. You now have a better appreciation of what the relationship could be becuase you have been to the brink. H is still living in the fog. You are denying him the chance to see how close he is to losing you so he can come to his senses. <P>3. You mentioned that he has been reading HNHN. Have you two discussed it? Do you think it has or might occur to him to ask you about an affair?<P>Gotto run. Check in later.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

Jill,<P>I am sorry for your pain. I was reading the responses and I wanted to comment on [censored]'s. I know that many men are distant with their wives and they don't "wake up" until it's too late. Well, in my case, I was the one who was distant. I let myself withdraw from my H because of depression due to a lot of factors. I'm a survivor of child abuse, lack of self-esteem, financial difficulties, post-partum depression. I have battled depression in one form or another for 25 years. I don't know if that's what is wrong with your H or if he's just an insensitive lout, but I do know how it affected every aspect of my life, including the way I treated my H. My H didn't have an affair until I had been out of my depression for several years. Things had actually been good for us. I started Prozac about 4 years ago. I am now having to deal with the fall-out of what my depression ultimately caused. Not to mention the affair has catapulted me right back into that depression pit. Has your H ever been to a therapist? I think you guys should get some counseling together, then if he does have a mood disorder, he can be treated. I just wanted [censored] to know that sometimes the women are the ones with the intimacy issues. It doesn't really matter what causes them, we just need to learn how to deal with them. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

<BR>Jill,<P>I've known for some time that you're an honest person. I can see that the guilt from not telling your husband is eating at you like a cancer, compounded by the apparently growing possibility that the OM might blow this whole thing into the open for you.<P>I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that *at some level* you're reacting to these worries, and your husband senses it. You want to repair and strengthen your marriage to the point it can withstand a confession, but instead its disintegrating before your eyes.<P>IMO, you should confess and get what one poster termed a level playing field to rebuild your marriage. Only then will your husband fully understand what's happening TO him and BY him.<P>Bystander

Hi.<P>I'm sorry for being such a "baby" today. Thanks for the encouragement and uplifting remarks and advice. <P>To clarify a few things...<P>I've mentioned before that I've been married for 7 years. The first year of marriage was a "honeymoon year". After that, everything went downhill...second year of marriage until now...things have been EXACTLY like this (with the exception of the affair I had last year). <P>So that you can better understand how I feel, here is a really dorky illustration: If you were locked in a room with a dripping faucet (drip drip drip drip drip drip drip, etc.), the dripping would kind of bug you for the first few seconds. Then, after the first few minutes of listening to the dripping, you'd become a little more aggitated. Then, after a few hours, your nerves would be raw...after that, the dripping would probably cause dimentia to set in...the dripping would be driving you NUTS! <P>Well, in my marriage, my husband's neglect of my feelings represents the dripping faucet. I'm going nuts here...<P>In other words, my husband has not just recently been exhibiting this behavior. He's behaved this way pretty much from the beginning of our marriage. This isn't an overnight manifestation...I've lived like this for almost 7 years, and I hate it.<P>Obviously, my affair had a horrible impact on me and on my marriage. My husband has ignored me repeatedly in 7 years of marriage -- he didn't just start ignoring me around the time that I had an affair. I've resented his behavior for 7 years -- I didn't just begin to resent his behavior around the time of my affair.<P>I have already confessed my affair to God. I HAVE been held accountable in more ways than one for my actions. I do not necessarily feel that confessing my affair to my husband will in some way make me more accountable to God than I already am.<P>Right now, I am communicating clearly and I am doing everything "by the book", and my husband is STILL sitting there like a lump.<P>Yep...I do have my dogs. <P>Jill<P>

<BR>Jill,<P>I understand that your husband has ignored you for the last *six* years - the first was a honeymoon year I also understand the resentment.<P>I'm not bashing you, but claims that confessed to God don't carry much weight with me. I mean, God forgives all sins anyhow. Its being forgiven by those that we've harmed in our lives that counts, IMO. Deep down, I think you agree with me, too, but you don't want to risk losing your marriage by confessing. But the resentment of being ignored, the guilt over the betrayal, and the growing concern that the OM is going to blow the whole thing into the open are all starting to take their toll. Behaving by the book? For how long can you keep it up, especially when your husband doesn't realize the stakes involved?<P>I've sensed for a long time that you know the only way you'll have the marriage you truly want is when its based on total honesty. I'd surely rather see you risk losing your marriage through confession than either: (a) having the OM end your marriage for you by telling your H, or (b) watching a slow, painful descent into divorce by behaving in the status quo.<P>Bystander<BR>--<BR>Who likes cats ==^^== Hi catnip, wherever you are! <BR>

Jill,<P>Personally, I don't think the guilt from not telling your husband is eating you alive. I think your husband's continued bad behavior in spite of all your efforts is what is eating you alive. You are a hairs breadth away from walking away from your H if he doesn't shape up, IMO, and it has little or nothing to do with your affair. It has to do with the way he is treating you.<P>Alot of people think that betrayers have to self-flagellate themselves forever to truly be remorseful. I don't think so. You already know that you don't want to be the kind of person who cheats, for all kinds of reasons, including hurting your H. I think cheating keeps some good people in bad marriages. Why? Cause they feel so guilty at first that they bend way, way over backwards to try to save the marriage. <P>What would you be doing now if you hadn't cheated? Do you think you'd feel justified asking for a divorce? Or do you think that because you cheated that you don't have a right to do that?<P>Alot of people here have some good advice. However, coming from my position and what happened to me, I don't think your H necessarily deserves a confession. Why? You said yourself that he treats the dogs better and has for a long time. When I had my affair, I was as ready as I'd ever be to get a divorce. Your H doesn't know how to behave,so , how much arm twistin', game playin' do you want to continue to do? In the final analysis, only HE is responsible for his behavior. So, how's this for a wake up call...<P>a) Honey, I don't want to live with you anymore and I'm finding my own place. You treat the dogs better than you do me. <P>b) Let's go to counseling or I'm moving out.<P>c) I want a divorce.<P>He'll figure out real quick that he'd better get his stuff together and that divorce is gonna happen TO him if he doesn't figure it out. Level playing field my *utt. Confession does not level the playing field. If you confess, you will be at your H's complete mercy. Don't really think you wanna go there. And if you do, be careful. <P>Don't let anyone "guilt" you into confession. Sure, you feel guilty about cheating. So did I. I still feel bad about doing that, however, my ex did some pretty rotten things himself. Ya think he felt guilty? Hardly. All it did was give him another reason to be mean to me. Will your H be the same way? Who knows, but be prepared if he does. That is my only advice. <P>One more thing, forgiveness from people you hurt is a nice thing, but you still have to forgive yourself regardless. Your H has hurt you too and should be seeking your freakin' forgiveness too, IMO. No need to be the betrayer martyr here. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 04, 2000).]

I don't agree with the Student at all. I have trouble even putting it into words why. That kind of answer just hits me the wrong way. Most of us who were betrayed feel there were problems in the marriage, but nothing insurmountable if there wasn't the third party involved, however, that other person sure woke some of us up to make changes (altho in my case it was too late by then). I think he needs to know the danger zone he is in, and him knowing what his neglect has lead to in the past is a good way. He needs to realize it before it's too late. I still think telling him is best. If he bails, you know what you have. I don't know. I could be wrong I guess but I very much believe in seeking and putting forth truth. There's the risk of him bailing out, but if you are near bailing out yourself, a heart to heart might be the only risk left.<P>I love all of what [censored] had to say by the way. I hope it works out for you. I do have to say tho, my H told me I love my dogs more than him before he left us (argh!), but in our case it was just an excuse and justification for him playing around (for years). I like my dogs; I LOVED my husband and kids and our family which is now over. He just today started getting nasty and is not paying bills anymore and e-mailed me to tell me to go back to work and put our youngest in daycare (which practically used to be a dirty word to him, no offense to anyone else who uses it tho). This all has nothing to do with your thing of course.<P>There is a problem that won't go away unless it is addressed and you seem to be the only one aware. He needs awareness big time. You can't address this problem all by yourself. Ask many of us here who feel like we were the only ones trying to save our marriages - it takes two.<P>I don't feel like I'm a lot of help. I just hate to see marriages go down the drain. The bible gave two reasons for divorce and ignoring wasn't one, so give him a chance to change. I hope he will see the reward in doing so - you are worth it.