Lately I have been mostly lurking, "surfing" MB and amazes me how much prejudice the content of some posts/replies of the Infidelity Forums have (specially the General Questions one). <B>It seems that under the banner of "Christianity" some members justify their lack of love for their fellow human beings and their close minded disapproval of other ways of thinking/living.</B> <P>I wish we could have back that good 'ol MB Forum from a few months ago, where you could be what you wanted, say what you pleased, ask for help, give advise, just vent and even post humor knowing that <B>you would never be attacked for your beliefs, and that no matter what your problems were, nobody would be judgmental and that everybody was your friend.</B> <P><B>If we continue to post hate and prejudice we will have the same response. There is a place for everything and there are even some hate web sites around; this site is not one of them.</B><P>I know that many people here know each other well enough to know when one is having a bad day, but think about the newbies who just found this site; remember when you first arrived to MB, didn't you feel attracted by the compassion and love here? <B>Where is all that compassion now? Where will the newcomers find it?</B><P>I don't intend to lecture here or change anyone, but I say that if a member can't reply to a post with a text that is respectful and intending to be helpful, he/she should just abstain.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>

Thank you, Alex.....<P>I lurk only occasionally now....for the reason you have stated above....<P>the intolerance and pettiness is draining on the positive energies we try to come here for...<P>the 'good feelings' I used to get (a few short months ago, as you pointed out, Alex) by coming here are gone...<P>never would I have believed the prejudicial and inflammatory intolerance I suddenly see 'popping' up on the boards....<P>I am greatly disappointed in some of my fellow beings on this planet....<P><BR>as for you, (((((((((dear Alex))))))))),<BR>I hope you have reached a level of some mental clarity in regards to your situation...<P>how is your lovely D ? you are a wonderful parent, and a really nice human being, Alex, don't let what you see here influence that...shrug and let it roll off...it's too easy to let the quagmire (sp?)..suck you in and change your whole mood and focus for the day...<P>have a great day, Alex, give your D a hug, enjoy the beautiful place you live (envy coming at you!!)....and smile....<P>Dylan<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

Hi Alex -<P>(and Hi Dylan!!!)<P>I hear ya.....that's why I am on a mission!!! So are some others!!<P>It is up to US to get out here and start posting our little fingers off!!!!<P>Change it back!!<P>There are a lot of people stuck in a negative place....it is spreading like mold!!!<P>So help us....break out the old scrubbrushes!!!!!<P>Love Ya and HAVE AN UP DAY!!!!!<P>Big Hugs,<P>Sheba

Alex:<P>You're right -- people come here looking for advice and sometimes love or attention or just a place to vent their sadness, thoughts and frustrations. I agree that there are some pretty hateful responses to posts around here lately. It's one thing to be straightforward in stating an opinion or talking about something that you feel strongly about. Regardless of a person's lifestyle choices or decision making skills, and regardless of PERSONAL opinion, it is wrong to attack a person who is in need of help and guidance. <P>I'm with you on changing the MB forum for the better...<P>I agree with your post whole-heartedly!<P>Have a most excellent day! <P>Jill

Hey, Sheba - see....we're not the only ones!!!!<P>Thanks a bunch Alex. Trying to figure out how to change things, but looks like this post is gonna be the catalyst!!<P>Just told someone the other day that if the board had been like this when I was lurking, I might never have written my first post....and then where would I be now???????<P>OK, Alex has sounded the trumpet! Back to a positive board!<P>Lori

I agree with you Alex.<P>We have to present the truth in love. This is what will get us through this all.<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Yes Alex, I dropped by tonight on a whim, and was shocked to see what you describe! <P>There is love here, true enough, and yes, it needs to be spread around a bit!!<P>This needs to be MarriageBuilders, not MarriageBusters, and that's how it will be perceived if the hate wins out!<P>Hello, by the way, to Dylan, Lori, Sheba, Jill, Rob and Hanora... nice to see you still building! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

<B>Hi Dylan, Sheba, Jill, Lori, Rob, hanora!!!</B><P>OK, I started this but I don't know how to get it rolling, for starters I just posted a "HUMOROUS FOOD FOR THOUGHT" note at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002574.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002574.html</A> <P><B>We could also TRY (at least try) to wear the other member's shoes when replying</B>, try to understand their pain, their doubts, their confusion... <B>we're all just human, for crying out loud!</B> <P>I have been tempted to respond to some posts in a bitter mood, thinking that maybe (just maybe) my hard learned English could convince somebody to change his/her mind, but <B>who am I to EVEN THINK of changing others when I have enough trouble trying to understand/change myself?</B><P>Thanx Dylan & Hanora for remembering my D. She's having a ball this spring break <B>(just thinking than in a few years she will be a REAL spring breaker-LOL)</B>. Early last week she was kinda bored while she & a friend were trying to match a sleep over night... on Thursday D went to the friend's home and spent the day, then on Friday AND Saturday the friend was over here & we took them both to see a 3rd. friend visiting from PA. She spent last night over a 4th friend's home and the 3 of them spent the day here (w/o the 3rd. one); later W (yes- we still live under the same roof but that's another story) took them to the movies to watch Tigger and tonight all 3 are gone to the 1st. friend's home to come back here tomorrow and then on Thursday go to a water park... UFF!!-Thank God all this is been taken care by a 4 crews of parents!! <P>Enough said about my D, I told you about the last week of her life to point out that <B>nothing that we may imagine/dream/think/does makes sense unless is helping us or others to grow.</B> She is the most important person in my life and I thank God for lending her to me, and also thank the wife for being the vehicle to bring this wonderful little angel to this world (Dylan, I am not a wonderful parent, just a parent). <P><B>Let's do something great with MB. We owe it to the other members and the newcomers!!!</B> It's 7 of us already; Jim (NSR) will be back next week, and with him, Bill, Tim (Medic) and others we're a whole lot... we can do it! <P>Take care.<P>Alex<P>PS: Sheryl, I guess we were typing at the same time but you are faster <g>. You're right, let's spread love around a bit.<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B><p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited April 25, 2000).]

Alex<P> I agree with you 100%. All of us here are going thought some hard times and sometimes get carried away. WHAT MAKES THIS PLACE SPECIAL IS THE FACT THAT PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE AND FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE ARE WILLING TO OFFER HELP AND ADVICE OR HOW THEY FEEL. <P> In my case I have found the general questions forum to be to hostile. I want to help but the amount of ill feelings can become overwhelming.<P>Joe

HI everybody, <BR>I'm here too, and also agree with all of the above <P>Glad to see us all here, willing to make this a positive and understanding place.<P>I'll try to come more often.<P>As for being positive... ah.. you guys know me... always there LOL<P>Hugs to all<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

HI ThisAlex,<BR> <BR> I don't think it was OUR FAULT WE SNAPPED AT THEM. I think it was when we got these!!<P> <P> THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING!!! WE LOST IT!!<P> OK, only fooling. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] <BR>Yes, I'm one of the ones guilty of being harsh with a couple of the newbies AND have tried to make up for it. I just feel I "snapped back" at a couple that really tried to bend the VERY good advice they can get here to "Their" situation that REALLY doesn't mirror Dr. Harley's methods. <P> AND one or two were RUDE and condescending to what we are trying to accomplish here NO MATTER HOW nice we were.<BR> <BR>AS IN THE WORLD, MAYBE THESE ARE THE ONES THAT NEED US THE MOST?????<P> I guess as WE grow the problems WILL get a little more "BROAD" in our problems and no matter what, there's no excuse for being rude.<BR> I apologize to all for MY part and will try to remember the anger and hurt we can have when we get here. OK I'll be a good boy Lori and Sheba!! [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] <P> WITH A NEW COMMITMENT TO LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING AND TRYING TO HELP ALLLLLL. FRANK<BR>P.S. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I had to get those out!! I'd be too tempted to use them on OM!!

If I may be the lone "dissenter" here, I'd like to point out just a few things:<P>I've been here for over a year now, and I've seen this phenomenon before. There are cycles at this board just as there are in all aspects of life. We all perceive the turnover in membership here as bringing positive or negative change to the board at various times during the year.<P>The truth is that we make the board what it is. There used to be an old "unwritten" rule around here that if a post makes you angry, you avoid responding to it -- in fact, you try not to even acknowledge it.<P>The fact is that we're all permitted to post just about any opinion we want to here (as long as we obey the forum's rules about vulgarity, etc.) What fans the flames of controversy here is when somebody becomes "outraged" by the ludicrous nature of somebody else's post. Some folks LOOK to create conflict by posting controversial statements. We only encourage that kind of behavior when we reply in anger. <P>If a post upsets you, don't deal with it anymore. Or, if you feel you must respond, wait a day and compose a thoughtful and polite reply. If you feel that someone is getting bad advice, or a poster is getting on a soapbox about something you don't agree with (for instance, religion), start your own post to counter it, but don't slam the other person. He/she is entitled to his/her opinion just as you are.<P>Keep in mind that emotions run high here, especially when there is a great influx of new members. The emotional aspect of what happens to a betrayed spouse (and a betrayer, for that matter) when an affair occurs leaves our feelings raw. As "oldtimers" we need to have patience and understanding with newcomers who don't know how to take this sudden upheaval in their lives.<P>Finally, let's all remember that we are all human. We all make mistakes, and we all say things we wish we hadn't. I've had my fair share of angry words with others on this board. Most of you have seen them. <P>However, I hope that I've learned from allowing my emotions to get the best of me. I hope I've learned that I only made myself look bad by reacting in anger. Hopefully, those who post angry thoughts will come to learn that as well.<P>Here's the long and short of it: I don't think the atmosphere here is really any differnt than it was a year ago. It's how we react to the influx of new people that determines whether we like this place or not.<P>Let's all do our best to avoid <B>disrespectful judgments</B> about each other as well as our spouses! <P>Just a few thoughts from a "lifer." <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Hey guys, I really want to clarify the meaning of hate. Forgive me, but since this thing happened to me I am unsure of anything that I think so I wanted to clarify.<P>Are you talking about posts where someone is being judgemental about subjects like religion, or judgemental towards the betrayers????<P>I have read those replies also. But sometimes I find we commiserate with each other regarding what has happened in our lives, and even though we are trying to hold on to our MB beliefs, we allow our anger towards our WS come out. I was hoping you are not referring totally to those type of posts, because I guess if you are I need to apologize because I have not always been positive on this particular board either.<P>I have vented on many bad days so I don't vent at my H or with my little children. I love bust here on the board so I don't lb here at home. <P>

I don't think venting, that is howling here so you don't howl at home, is what people are refering to. It is the sort of post where someone asks for advice about a problem that is outside our experience (multiple marriage etc.) or poses a stance that is contrary to the principles we have come to believe in.<P>Response to those sorts of things is difficult. I think Lonestar is was who said if you don't agree with it, ignore it, if you have to respond wait a day.<P>I am reminded of my mother's advice "If you can't say something nice, keep your mouth shut." I think I will try harder to follow that advice.

Hey, I try to stay positive, but even I have bad days. Giver and taker...<P>I think if we form a positive coalition, even on those bad days we can counter each other out of them.<P>Maybe some positive guidelines...<P>1. If a positive lighthearted post isn't near the top of the first screen post one, or bring one back up.<P>2. Say something really complimentary to at least one person in the opposite situation as you every time you come on to post.<P>3. Hug alot.<P><BR>I think we are going to all have days when despite our best efforts a post hits us so negatively that the taker inside of us won't even allow the giver to ignore it. None of us is perfect. If that happens, when senses are restored a simple apology can go along ways.<P>Anyway, I'm in a really good mood today so want to send out all kinds of good vibes.<P> <P>

I think we are all singing the same tune here and yes, I was precisely referring to those topics that hit home in a negative way.<P>I.e.: let's say there's a <B>"help, new here"</B> post from someone who happens to be the OM or OW in a gay betrayal situation- I don't believe that a few months ago I could had said anything "nice" to him/her, and even today all I would write is a "get lost" reply, but in nice way, of course and more than one member would <B>reprimand</B> him/her for his/her unnatural behavior.<P>Another example? I remember a OW support web site mentioned here a few months back; although our reactions were not of approval to somebody who was simultaneously posting here and there for the most part (with a few exceptions) we were trying to be understanding.<P>The point is, we don't know it all, no one here has patented "THE TRUTH" and the pain that brought us all here was real in the first place. Some people shouldn't be in MB because of their particular problems but if we can't redirect them to another site or give them advice, let's give them time to decide by themselves whether they belong here or not. I am not more "Christian" for rejecting you, but for accepting and loving all my fellowmen regardless of their creed, race, religion (or lack of) or, among other things, marital status (or customs).<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>

Alex,<P>My thoughts exactly. I also have been noticing instead of encouragement some (DBMF)'s ---ha ha remember this term from the Outback in Cancun ---people are being about forward with their judgements of other people. Some people just come here because they just want a friend or someone to "be on their side". I appreciate your friendship Alex.<P>Greg<P>The door is always unlocked up here in Kansas

Great point alex. I just wanted to point out that no one is perfect, and a little understanding when the anger gets the best of us can go along ways as well. Now if someone is doing it on a daily basis...<P>It's one of those give me some latitude to be human every once in awhile and goof up. I'm not out to stone anyone and I will make ammends.<P>I've had some posts where I wasn't trying to be condescending or angry and I came across that way. In my own way, I actually thought I was being helpful but my choice in language got the best of me. It's the old Abe Lincoln quote. You can't please everybody.<P>Not that this is a personal attack on me by any means...I just put my foot in the shoe of someone who's anger did get the best of them, who normally is quite supportive and thought about how they would feel.<P>I guess it's one of those do your best...if someone gets ticked apologize, and if you get ticked by someone's response try to do your best to understand that we are all human, all hurting, and that it is nothing personal. The negativity is going to pop up now and then whether we like it or not. So when we are positive...spread it around. It will become contagious. Now it's time for me to go spread some hugs and smiles around....

Hi Greg!!!<P>You have to e-mail me the meaning of "DBMF"- I remembered the letters but can't seem to recall what they mean.<P>Beth, I guess it's just like in "real" life- face to face with our friends, co-workers, partners, neighbors, etc.- even children: <B>when we point at the act or behavior most likely we have a good response; when we personally attack the person he/she turns tries to defend his/her position even if what we say makes sense.</B><P>After all Dr. H's communication advice applies to every relationship, including our anonymous friendship through the Internet at MB. <P>Alex<P>------------------<BR><B>Live fully and always learn</B>