Once again...I think you did the decent thing. Maybe I should have written an email like your friend, but I don't think it would have made a difference. He has never contacted me, but I have fallen off the wagon a few times. In one of the emails I took the same approach in if you ever cared, you would be up front...no response. I fell off the wagon twice, twice was ignored...and felt worse for it, so that is that. <P>Anyway....you are right, every situation has a different set of dynamics....what will work for some, won't for others; however unless you are involved with a stalker, there is no harm in being kind and considerate to all injured parties.<P>

So tell me....can the pain of withdrawl become so intense...that you buy into the "lie" that nothing could be worse than this...so you follow your heart and go against all the wise counsel and truth and logic that you have ignored for so long...to satisfy the intense longing and desire within that you feel you can't live without?

NO MAS,<P>Regarding your question: "can the pain of withdrawl become so intense...that you buy into the "lie" that nothing could be worse than this...so you follow your heart and go against all the wise counsel and truth and logic that you have ignored for so long...to satisfy the intense longing and desire within that you feel you can't live without?<BR>"<P>The answer is Yes.<P>But it's still wrong, and it will come back to bite you in the butt, I guearantee it. I think you already know this, don't you? I know. I'm there too.

I'm having a BAD day so forgive me my comments. (I guess this is a bad way to start)<P>It is hearing the remarks of the WS about the feelings for the OP that make me want to tell my H to take a hike and move on. I don't even know if he feels the way that that some of the WS here tell the story.<P>Of course I am angry, of course I am hurt, but I want to tell my H "grow Up". Actually I did tell him that recently as well as I would make it easy for him and divorce him. I told him I would also like to find a companion, a step father for my children. I told him it might take me a little while because I have been home taking care of the house and the kids, and have not had the good fortune of having my "soul mate' work side by side with me for 5 years. <P>I am sorry, but WHAT IS wWRONG with you people. The "thing" missing in you is not what your spouse is not giving you, it is what you are not giving yourself!!!!!!<P>My H's response to what I said was....no I don't want you to get a divorce, I didn't say Op was what I wanted. The problem is in me and not anythting to do with OP or you.!!!!<P><BR>I have counseled with S.Harley a few times. I find him so helpful. He did say to me recently that affairs tend to be about a weakness in an individual at a given time and then NOT protecting yourself at that time of weakness. The marraige may not have been THE problem!! (problems do exist in ETOH, or drug abuse, physical abuse etc.)<P>He also told me that the person who is having the affair cannot distinquish between cold and hot. If they are feeling warm with Op, then they HAVE to tell themselves they were cold with their spouses.!!!!!<P>I'm sorry, but the pining away really incenses me right now. I have certainly had my opportunities to feel good when someone paid attn to me, but chose not to. <P>And believe me I can come up with my own list of complaints. I didn't because I know that people are who they are. You accept them. When they are your spouse, you respect them, you trust them, you believe in them!!! At least I did. What was wrong with me then!!!<P><BR>By the way JILL, I know you are a betrayer, but I hope you don't get too mad at me and my response. I have always read your posts and admired your ability to be introspective. You seem to SEE it for what it is, even if you cannot CONTROL it. That is human!!!!!

NoMas:<P>Hang in there... *sigh*<P>Believe it or not, things will get better. Just please keep in mind how important the NO CONTACT rule is. Don't sabotage yourself, okay?<P>Tootrusting: I appreciate your comment to protect my feelings. But, it wasn't necessary. This is a place for people to say what's on their mind...I can take it (most of the time ).<P>Jill

Hello all,<P>This is my first post, although I've been reading here since mid-January. At times I've wanted to reply to others, but didn't have the time to think my response through. I know feelings here are quite fragile (mine included) and so I am hesitant to just write off the top of my head. As was already addressed here, our experiences share some commonalities, but in the specifics are intensely personal. <P>With that in mind, NoMas, I would like to address your question: "can the pain of withdrawl become so intense...that you buy into the "lie" that nothing could be worse than this...so you follow your heart and go against all the wise counsel and truth and logic that you have ignored for so long...to satisfy the intense longing and desire within that you feel you can't live without?".<P>I cannot answer for you which way you will go, but I can share from my own experience. From what you have shared about your background I imagine you are experiencing quite a spiritual battle within you. I can identify with that. For me it has looked like this: I have/am holding my fist tightly closed with something I do not want to surrender to God. Five or six months ago I had my fist closed so tightly that I didn't even want to think about surrendering. I didn't even want to pray for help to do that. But through this journey of surrender God has never let me go (He remains faithful, even if we are faithless for a season). Every once in a while He put something in my path (a certain CD, a women's retreat...) that kept my heart from becoming completely hardened and making that decision that you fear. Now, ever so slowly my fist is opening and I am able to release to Him what doesn't belong to me and begin to think about resting in what He has provided for me, rather than taking for myself provisions that He didn't intend for me. It has been a process and I can only think that the softening of my heart has been by His grace. As you mentioned once before also, I felt at times completely powerless to do what I knew I ought to (though I really wasn't). The only part I had in it was a heart that still treasured my relationship to God and couldn't get all that way to the place of denying Him. But, getting my heart to a place of surrender has been His work. He is faithful. Keep hanging on to Him and let Him do the work in your heart.<P>I hope this makes sense and I hope I don't get roasted! My feelings are still so fragile. I feel like I am finally able to turn away from where I was, but not able to completely turn all the way back yet. I am standing still, just glad to be at this place of opening my fist and releasing what isn't mine.

I didn't put my signature, which explains the name, so here it is.<P>------------------<BR>Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

Hello "sifted"...<P>I really appreciated your words. You really described to the "t" what I believe is the internal struggle I am having...and that is me having to willfuly open a very "clinched fist" and let go..of what was never mine to have in the first place.<P>It is the eternal battle of surrendering our will to God's. I believe the greatest battle Jesus faced was not the one on the cross, but in the garden. In agonizing prayer for 3 hours, he came to the painful place of saying "Not my will be done, but yours".<P>Perhaps the motivating factor that helped Jesus reach that point, was he caught a glimpse of all of broken humanity, including many of us here on these boards, and he saw how much we would need him someday...and it was His love for us that pushed him over that "hump"...to lay his life down in a very painful way...for our good. Now it is our turn to do the same.<P>Toothtrusting...<P>You ask "what is wrong with you WS's?"<P>I can tell you simply...we are hurting. There have been times over the years when one of my children have come home from school and shared a hurt they were experiencing and would tell of an incident at school that hurt them. My first thought would be: "Why...that isn't anything to cry about...get a grip!" <BR> But then...I am always reminded that to them...it is real pain they have...regardless of whether I feel it or not, whether I understand it or not.<P>Pain...is simply that....pain. We come here looking for healing and comfort...a place to bare our sinful souls. We are not saying we are right or wrong ...but sometimes, we are just saying: "This is the way we feel".<P>