Got some down time here...will address a few questions.<P>Girlfriend...about using a female to pour my heart out to. Did I know better? Well...in "real life" I did. But I really have not had much experiece with establishing "relationships" via email and such. I really kind of felt "safe" in that sense. Maybe I was naive, but I thought that nothing could come of it. I had come across a post of hers (my friend) that really touched an area of need and I responded. Our coorespondance was rather casual for about 6 months...just every once in awhile conversations. <P>My problem here at school was a very "physical" temptation...seeing this person everyday...and knew something was wanting to "unfold". I used the MB as a place of escape. My friend just happen to be there and really was a help in getting me to avoid things here from blowing up. Little did I realize, that my heart would slowly drift towards hers. But I know that a genuine "friendship" developed between us. Are these ever healthy when male and female are involved? Well, I would not advise them. But that is another matter. <P>But feeling safe behind a monitor and keyboard hundreds of miles away, I guess let my guard down, thinking I was "safe".<P>JL...<BR> I really would not want to take the route of blaming my wife. I realize that it takes two people to make a marriage work. Let me just say this...<BR>My wife and I are wired differently in several ways, but we seem to have made it ok for about 17 years. She does not have much of a sex drive or feel much of a need for a lot of affection, cuddling, or the "full course". IT has always been an issue in our marriage...because I really desire to give that and receive that,but we seem to have survived. <P>Also, she has never been one to dole out much compliments or praise, or 'admiration', which I found in the last couple of years, I was really needing. Turning 40 had some effect on me...and I just started feeling that sense of 'worthlessness' and 'spinning my wheels" thing that some men felt. <P>Then, with my wife's school, a decision we both were in agreement when she started, it really sucked what life was left in us...out.<BR>She was not career minded and pursuing her own dreams. We have some major expenses coming up with kids and such and it was the only time to do this. I just don't think either of us knew what was coming. <P>The more I began to share with my friend, as she became my 'best friend' over the course of the year, the one I began to talk to and share my heart...the sense of relief and warmth and wonderful feeling that I got from that...was so intoxicating....that I threw caution to the wind. I needed someone to talk to ...and my wife just couldn't be there for me. <P>Guess some would say that a "real man" would just 'suck it up, be tough, forget about personal needs and needing to be admired and a hero in my wife's eyes' and such. But with her being absorbed with school...and she was really the one true friend I had, even though we had our differences, it just seemed to be the final straw.<P>Now that I have "fallen"...it's not like I am anywhere close to being a 'hero' in her eyes, much less deserving of any admiration. And things in the "bedroom department" have only deterioted. So in reality, I feel like things are worse now, than when they were when I got in this place to begin with.<P>I guess I am starting to sound like I am whining here, and I apologize for coming across that way if I am. I am must so tired of being in this place of not feeling like I can go in either direction. I've wondered if there is a "wearing down" process in situtions like this, where you get so weary, that you just surrender to the desires of your heart...and break the hearts of loved ones in the process. <P>My greatest fear at this point, is just "putting everything on the table" with her...bearing my heart and soul and letting her know what has happened to me. I guess it is only fair to her to do that. I think it would devestate her to no end, hence, my hesitation in moving in this direction. <BR>Obviously, going the other way, and pursuing my friend, (not that she would want this) would also devesate my wife and kids. <P>I guess in a perverted way, I am trying to protect my family, by doing nothing. Yet, it is only a matter of time, when this thing will blow up in my face, and really cause harm. I guess the worse thing that could happen, is if I told my wife what was happening, that she would just not understand, and want me to leave. I just dread putting her and the kids through anymore pain. (My kids do not know about my meeting OW last December) <P>And yes....I hear the crowd in the balcony hollering down at me: "YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE YOU SCREWED UP!"<P>Yes...thank you...you are right!<P>Think I will sign off for now. I appreciate the comments and advice and prayers offered here today. I really do.<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 16, 2000).]

NoMas...<BR> Forget the imaginary crowd in the balcony...most of us are pretty willing to admit we are far from perfect. I, for one, would not dream of telling you that "YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE<BR>YOU SCREWED UP!"<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I guess in a perverted way, I am trying to protect my family, by doing nothing. Yet, it is only a matter of time,<BR>when this thing will blow up in my face, and really cause harm. I guess the worse thing that could happen, is if I told my wife what was happening, that she would just not understand, and want me to leave. I just dread putting her and the kids through anymore pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You really do need to put your cards on the table, you know. Could I suggest that you start by doing a counseling session or two with Steve or Jennifer Harley, or a good local counselor, who could help advise you on how to best break this to your wife.<P>Your wife does deserve the chance to understand you and your needs. Sometimes, spouses (even us "sensitive" females) can be pretty darn dense and self-absorbed. Looking back, I realize that my H did try to reach out to me as he was getting "sucked in" to an EA. I was busy with job, kids, PTA assignment, sick parent, etc. & didn't pick up...was clueless. It does not mean that she doesn't care...<P>Good luck!<P>Kathi

NoMas,<BR>Thanks for letting me take a peek into the mind of the betrayer. I guess you guys still puzzle me after all the months I've been coming here. I just wish my H had given SOME consideration to our marriage and life together. Instead, his OW divorced her 2nd H for my H and now I have filed for divorce from my H. So soon they will be free to live out their fantasy. I honestly wonder if it can hold up under the pressure of everyday life. You know, jobs, kids, bills, home repairs, illness, etc. She has no children and has been married twice before. Maybe third time's the charm for her. Wonder how she'll treat my kids? Wonder how they'll treat her knowing what she's done? Wonder how my kids will feel about their dad and marriage in general? The only thing I've learned at this point is my H isn't sorry, he blames me for his unhappiness and I will NEVER get involved in a relationship again. I don't ever want to give myself up totally again and have someone else stomp all over my heart. I would rather be alone. I'm not sure where this is leading, I think I wanted to say these things to you since my H won't listen to them. Sorry if I seem like a psycho, but I really was affected by this thread. There are so many avenues to consider in a situation like this...it is painful for everyone involved. No one wins...everyone loses. It's just time for me to pick up the pieces and move on. Believe me, I thought I had a good marriage...but I didn't. If only H had seen fit to discuss it with me rather than find someone else.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Ok, so you do understand the Spring stress syndrome. Hang in there No Mas. There's no reason for you to be stuck in misery. I think there have been some opportunities for you to bring this up to your wife. She's asked if you have been talking to anyone...there's an opportunity. There's no real way to prevent the hurt she's going to feel, but if she suspects anything (which she must because she's asking) then it is already hurting her. If you can, make the decision to stop contact with the OW before telling her. It will help in the long run if she knows that your looking for help to rebuild versus still sitting on the fence. Then share a no contact letter with your spouse before sending it. <P>I'll give you another analogy to think about. It's one that I like.<P>What happens to water that isn't 100 percent pure and it sits motionless for a long time...It stagnates. You can choose to do nothing now, but the longer you wait the more the love you do have for your wife will erode. The journey back will be tougher.

NoMas,<P>It seems to me that by not addressing this issue with your W, you are guarenteeing (sp) that your marriage will fail, your children will be hurt, the OW will be hurt, and so will her family. You are running from the one possible solution that may cause the least pain.<P>I don't think your reasons for feeling the way that you do are invalid. In fact most women who come here complain about the samething with their H's. THESE ARE REAL ISSUES. If you don't think so, then why would an otherwise honest man and devoted H first be infatuated with a woman in work and then a woman here on this board. You need something desperately and you went and got it.<P>It is not the recommended thing to do, and most certainly not the way to go about things, but the need for companionship, friendship, yes sex, and all of the others are real. Your W needs to understand your needs or this marriage is doomed whether this OW is involved or not. <P>Lostva, put it very nicely in a post about why she could forgive her H. She said that she had taken a variety of marriage vows only one of them was fidelity. She had met that vow, her H had not. But by her estimation she had failed her some of her other vows.<P>NoMas, this isn't an attack on your W nor is it justification for what you have done, but a marriage does require that the spouse meet some of there other spouse's needs. Honor, cherish, etc. are all vows that both spouses make. Wait I'll get to you when I can, is not a vow taken by either party.<P>You and your W need to talk and you need to talk now. I believe if you do and she understands what you want from her and what you are willing to give, then you will be able to get off of the fence. <P>I truly believe that you are on the fence because you don't want to spend the rest of your life in a barren relationship. So get with the program and talk with your wife. Talk to the Harley's about this and see how to approach it. Maybe your W will do counseling. After all what is more important to her the school or her marriage? What is more important to you?<P>You willingness to take all of the blame and be noble about this only extends to your blame for the affair. It doesn't extend to the state of your marriage. In the case of the marriage, being noble and taking all of the blame is wrong. Wrong because it isn't true and wrong because it will end your marriage. You need to separate what you have done in the affair to what you and your W have done in the marriage.<P>Many things to consider, but it's time to get with it. The fate of two families rides on your ability to take some action. You know the right action to take, but you need help from your spouse to make it the really right action to take.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Keridwen<P>Let me first say...how sorry I am that you are in that place. NO ONE...should have to experience that. While I am not in a noble place myself, the ONE thing that has kept me from going over the edge is I know I could not live with myself ever...knowing I could cause my wife to someday write...what you just wrote. Thank you for exposing your pain to me.<P>Beth...<P>You are correct. I am counting the days! :-)<P>JL....<P>Thank you again for ariculating in a very clear way. I will strongly think on these things. You made your point well, and I appreciate it. My wife just completed her schooling this week. I have been in a "holding pattern" until she got out, not wanting to sabatoge all the hard work she has put forth. I realize that the price tag on all this will be much higher than we ever anticipated. <P>Blessings to you...

No Mas,<P>I read this entire post enthusiastically. Maybe you remember my stbx's posts. Her name is Tired Lady. I was once where you are now. I agonized a great deal over making that choice between my wife of 17 years and being with Mia. Like Delphi, Mia also stopped all contact with me. She avoided me like the plague, not an easy thing to do when you work at the same company and are involved in mutual projects. But she did it quite well. I was in a situation where I needed to really evaluate my marriage, try to see if there was still a "spark" left and then try and re-ignite it. It was a good 11 months later when I decided I could no longer pretend that I would work on the marriage. There were too many mountains that had built up over the years left unexplored. Tired Lady would agree with this. <P>I was lucky that Mia still was available and wanted to reestablish a relationship. But she wouldn't have unless I was free to do so. I agree that you need to make the decision to stay or not and then do it because it is not fair to anyone involved being a "yo-yo". I am very much in love with Mia, and she with me. I have found happiness with her and our life now. My marriage with TL was over many years ago. We just lived through the motions of day to day living and not as husband and wife. I wanted more out of my relationship. I think TL did too.<P>Whatever you decide you need to understand that your choices will affect everyone involved. And there will be much healing needed in the aftermath.<P>Good Luck to you.

I can only respond with "oh god", I can't believe my stbx would be reading these posts and then of all things, responding to this one. Well I guess he felt he could contribute something.<P>Listen NoMas, I am in total agreement with BonnieSept when she said either [censored] or get off the pot. I truely wish my stbx (known here by Exhausted Man) would have done that 18 months ago. It would have spared me all the hatred, hurt, anger and frustration I am still enduring. Please, please, stop lying and decieving your wife. It's bad enough we (the betrayed) already know our spouses don't love us like they used to if even at all. It's a slap on the face to have them "pretend" they are trying when in reality, they want out. Why subject us to this type of torture?

NoMas,<BR>Thank you for your candid reply. <BR>I found it interesting. I wonder if that's whats behind the ever increasing number of affairs that start on-line? (false sense of safety & distance).<P>NoMas...your reply to Keridwen shows me that you do sill love your wife a great deal, and because you suggest that she would feel great pain over your feelings for ow, you must know that she loves you also. <BR>You seem a very caring person, please tell your wife what you need, not "half heartedly" (PUN INTENDED), as if you expect rejection, but hopefully, LOUDLY, give her those things she might be missing. You have so much to build on, memories to share. Treat her as you would your *friend* and she may surprise you!<BR>All the best.

I wanted to avoid posting to this thread...<P>To All:<P>Love is a process. Just because your spouse is no longer "in love" with you doesn't mean that you can't rebuild that love and end up with a marriage that was much better than before. That's where I strongly disagree with BonnieSept's and TL's argument that if the wayward spouse is no longer "in love" than they leave.<P>It's a very convenient "out" that makes a shambles of the lives of several people.<P>Now for my "judgement". You see TL and EH and Mia. The reason that TL and EH failed at saving the marriage is because they lacked the help to do so. They didn't have appropriate marriage skills, and they were in a pretty bad way with the marriage. They didn't go through a process that would allow them to save their marriage.<P>EH is now happy with Mia. But I'm 95% sure that this will not be true in 5 years. We have two people who were "cheaters" involved in a relationship in which they apparently haven't learned the "skills" necessary to have a good marriage. It's honeymoon time right now---but statistically speaking, this will end soon enough.<P>BonnieSept is an "anomoly" (although she hasn't made it to a 5 year mark either), in that she and the OM worked through the "skills" necessary to build a healthy marriage. I would have advised her to try that with her husband---but he was an angry, punishing man (alcohol involved too, Bonnie??) and she didn't think she had a prayer.<P>The bottom line is that the key to having a successful marriage is to learn the skills necessary to build and maintain love in a marriage. The MB "process" is a way to do this (not necessarily the only way). And you can do this in a marriage that's gone sour---there are plenty of success stories out there. Even if your spouse doesn't "love you", or you don't "LOVE" your spouse---I encourage you to just do the plan for 6-12 months, under the guidance of a coach who can help you put it in place. You will be successful.

Thanks K. I was going to respond with something similar, but you articulated it perfectly.<P><P>------------------<BR>"He who loses money, loses much; <BR>He who loses a friend, loses much more;<BR>He who loses faith, loses all."<P>Eleanor Roosevelt.

Like K, I also really wanted to avoid posting on this thread. Just a few observations, my opinion only.<P>First of all, the title of this thread is somewhat deceiving. NoMas is sharing what is going on in his heart and mind only. My husband was "wayward", but his heart and mind is nothing like this.<P>Also, what real purpose is served? Most people here have been betrayed, and it hurts to have a husband tell about his deep love for another woman and how he is continuing to deceive his wife. Most of us empathize with the partner who is being cheated. This thread seems to reiterate a recent one "Once a cheater, always a cheater".<P>I do think NoMas intended to share his feelings, pain, guilt, and struggle. I understand that part, and don't mean to be unkind. I believe NoMas was a member here before under another name, left when he had the affair with another poster, and returned under the name NoMas, which means no more. But there is more.<P>There have been disrespectful judgements from both betrayeds and betrayers. Those serve no real purpose, other than venting. NoMas is cheating on his wife, he knows it is wrong and he knows that he will be told that here, over and over. He knows that there is NO justification for adultery, and admits that he is weak. No one can make the right choice for him, no matter how impatient some of us get.<P>Some betrayers visit this site so that they can convince themselves that they are trying to save their marriage. Some want sympathy for the sacrifice they claim they are making. I don't know anyone's heart but my own, and neither does anyone else here. <P>Let's all just try to be a little kinder. If a thread or poster bothers you, ignore it and avoid them. If you want to add another perspective, do it diplomatically and read your post several times before you send it to make sure that emotions aren't overruling your good sense.<P>Everyone here needs support, but that doesn't mean that each of us has to support everyone here. Some situations on this board just infuriate me, so I leave them alone as best I can. I just do not like the turn this site is taking lately and hope it will revert to its old helpful ways!<P>Please remember, this is just my opinion.<P>Peppermint

I wish I had the answers you are seeking, since I too need to "get off of the fence". I find myself in a VERY similar predicament...I had posted here a couple months ago about my affair with "azhootie". Since that time, we have tried the no contact thing several times unsuccesfully. We both seem to cave in and either call or email each other. Before you know it we are right back in the same pattern. Both of us know that we can't go on this way but yet neither of us has the strength to let go.<P>I read your posts and they all sound pretty much like I could have written them with one exception. I DO consider leaving my wife and kids an option(not one that I totally embrace). It seems to me that if you don't see that as an option, things would be easier to move forward with, but oh how I know how hard it is to make ANY decisions when you are feeling what we are.<P>I wonder whether I can ever move forward from this hell I'm living in. I need to run, hope to post more later.<P>For what little it's worth, I truely do understand the pain you are living with.

My kids use to have a game called "Kerplunk"<P>There was this clear plastic cylinder type container that had all these thin plastic sticks poking through it at all different angles. Then, a load of marbles was poured out on top of the sticks. The object of the game was to go in turns, removing one stick at at time, and see who could get by without any marbles slipping through the growing gaps. Eventually, someone would pull a stick out....and "kerplunk"....they all came crashing down.<P>I see where marriage can be like this. I never in a million years would have thought I could have come to this place. But all those little things we should do on a day to day basis, are like those sticks in this game. You THINK you can get by OK when you begin neglecting certain things once in awhile. IT can be any one of a hundred issues that you face in life and marriage. <P>Even the subtle draw of sin works the same way. You take baby steps closer to a cliff and think "nothing happened....I'm ok".<P>But...sooner or later, when you least suspect it, your life...and even your marriage goes.... "kerplunk".<P>Sure...there are unresolved issues in my marriage. But it has not all come crashing down....yet. I'm just not sure how you start picking some of those sticks back up, and putting them back...when there seems to have been such a shift in emotions and feelings and hurts.<P>Just some thoughts.....<P>Hi Whattodo....<BR> I remember you...and have wondered how life was going for you all. How was Disneyland?<BR>

Cliche but one stick at a time. All you can do is try your best. Keep the faith. I know you can do it. <P>What are your main needs and what are your wife's? Maybe I can give you a couple of ideas to get started? (A bonus to getting yourself involved in this is it's kind of like a project that will wrap you up in something and take your mind a bit off of the withdrawal. If it's too hard to think of giving to your wife right now think of it as relationship practice with your wife.)

nomas,<P>This has truly been a great post to get a slice of the "reality" of both sides. And reality is what we perceive it to be.<P>I have to tell you, as the betrayed, the life I live is surreal. I am trying so hard to do the MB pricipals, but am having great difficulty.<P>Six months ago my H went on a trip with OP coworker and came home a different person. He was in such a grandiose fantasy....He denied any connection to me or the kids. (his family told him he was nuts and needed counseling and he went.)<P>I know there is a connection with Op since this trip (although my H has also told me that he missed me during this trip). It seems like an intense EA. My H moved out 3 months ago (urged out actually). He came here like he was in drug withdrawal. <P>All I know is that I have been consistently lied too. My H says he is lying and yet he says he cannot tell me why. My children are saddened and bewildered. My eldest d is in counseling. My H tells me one thing. ANd I hear a totally differerent story from the OP"s H., (she was living with him until mother's day...she is apparently tired of my H's procrastination.)<P>I have tried repeatedly to just get him to make a decision by making it easy for him. I keep telling him "hey if this is true love...go for it" I am not going to make him stay...I don't want him to stay......<P><BR>Yet, he keeps dragging his feet.....He delays me and wants to go to counseling...so we go....he tells the counselor that he can't talk to me and hasn't been able to for 2 years (in the beginning it was the whole marraige or longer....)<P>He admits that he never told me he felt he couldn't talk to me, he admits that there were alot of stresses in his job at that time. He admits that he worked long hours with OP at this time. Yet will not talk about OP in counseling...says Op is not the issue....Yet op has been telling her H that my H is "connected" to her and wants to marry her.<P>Meanwhile, I am living this surreal life. I don't care if he loves her or not....I just want him to make a decision. He seems not clear on anything. When the counselor asks him for an example of our conversation style he cannot give any. When I try to give my opinion of what it was like to me he says that is not true.<P>This should be a wonderful year for our family.... My eldest is entering middle school...my youngest is entering kindergarten. I have tried to be involved in all of their activiteis that he shared up until the "trip" yet we all (kids and me) feel a real let down.<P>How can you teach your children about truth...I wonder this....I do not want to lower their view of their dad in their eyes...but there is so much lying.....deceit........going on....I do not know what to tell my daugher (11). She wants to know...what happened? Did you and daddy fight????? (well NO)....how will I be able to teach her how to trust, when the person who she should trust the most (parent) lied....did not tell her mom he had any issues until another person came into the picture. and well he fell "in love"<P><BR>How do we teach our children what is real and what to expect from people when we don't give them good examples.....clear guidelines.<P><BR>I am so distraught today... I want to keep trying the plan A . (although family, friends and colleagues said I jumped through hoops for him) Yet I am an adult...I fell like I am the only adult in this situation. I keep wanting to put it all on the table and deal with it in a mature way, and my H refuses to talk about it....he just wants his "warm blanket" at work,,,,,and to come and kiss the kids goodnight every other night without dealing with the tough responsibilites of life...and parenting and marraige.<P>I guess I just wanted to let you know...I do understand your feelings....I just think it is such a cruel act to keep important information from a person who believes you love them. Please be honest. It is so painful to be the person who is being lied too. <P>

tootrusting....<P>I wish I knew what to say to you...even though you did not ask me to. I am so miserable. I KNOW I can't just leave my family and go chasing after "true love". I and my friend know this is crazy and would lead to a dead end. I guess I feel like I've just crossed over so far...and I just don't know how to find my way home. I weep as I type this. I am terrified of having to reveal my heart to my wife. I've hurt her so badly already when I confessed to the meeting.<P>It just rocked her world. How...in the world, do I tell her I am so deeply involved emotionally with this same woman, and that in my attempt to "come home" I am going to go through some deep withdrawl ....and if she ask me "did I ever tell this woman I loved her", how do I tell her yes without ripping her heart out. <BR>(Both my friend and I have at least admitted that in spite of these feelings we have, if it was genuine "love" we would have done what is best for each other, and breaking this off long ago would have been the evidence of that.)<BR> <BR>When I first told my wife a year ago about being attracted to another woman at work, she seemed so..."offended"...and unsympathetic...almost like "how could I be so childish and undisciplined"? It really bothered her that I could be drawn emotionally/physically to someone else. Well, I was no where near as deeply involved then, as I am now. I feel like either way I go, I am going to just completely destroy everything we have worked towards for the last 19 years.<BR> I am scared to death of this "withdrawl". I can't get this other person out of my mind or my heart. I think of her all the time. How can I be driving somewhere with my wife, and say, over the next 6-12 months, everytime I get quiet or stare off somewhere, she is going to suspect or wonder if I am 'thinking of her'. How can our marriage survive this? <BR> I just feel so trapped...that I can't go forward...or backward. I don't want to destroy my children's lives with my actions. I just die inside when I read post like yours or keridwen's and see what they are going through. I have seen first hand what broken homes have done to kids as I teach in a school.<BR> I feel so wretchedly horrible...like I have lost all my integrity, sense of self-worth, betrayed my wife's trust...I am literally paralyzed with fear and indecisiveness. It is a living hell where I am at right now. I just am at a loss for words or actions. <BR> My wife just finished school and will be startingher job soon after she takes her boards, which she has to really buckle down and study for. When is a "convenient" time to just bare my soul to her? We haven't had a convenient time to do much of anything for the past few years.<BR> And even in the midst of this torment and pain I am in, I would not even begin to compare it with the hell you and others have been put through...because of men like me. <BR>I can assure you, this has been the most difficult thing I have ever encountered in my 40 years of living. IF....I should somehow make it through this place...I can only imagine and wonder how I could help others from ever coming here themselves.<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 17, 2000).]

nomas<P>I can truly understand that this is the most painful experience you have encountered in 40 years...I have to say the same thing. THe fact that it is the person that I trusted so much that did this to me makes it even worse.\\<P>I think this is my cross to bear. I was 16 when my dad had an affair. Although he never left my mom I was so hurt by how he was so thoughtful to this other family and the children in that family who were my age that I punished him by witholding my affection for years.<P>I waited until i was 30 to get married. I thought I married a man who was polar opposite of my dad. Well, guess what, he is apparently as selfish and immature. (just quieter)<P>My H said nothing of problems in our marraige and even now can only be vague. Things that don't even make sense or that me and others (including my children and his mom ) would disagree with. He chooses to view things as they are to justify his actions. The sad thing is that he is the only one involved who cannot see it.<P>I'm not trying to change his mind. My H also told me he felt trapped by me, trapped by the marraige, trapped by the kids, trapped by the situation (op "put a knife in my heart if I have to give her up"). I openned the door and let him out...<P>And now here we are six months later...he changes his story now to....well, I wasn;t pretending when I told you those things...I did miss you...it is me not you.....<P>But he still lies. He still wants to be friends or work with or perhaps even explore a reltionship with OP. I tell him go ahead, just not on my marraige...and yet he cannot seem to let go.... Why???????<P><BR>I read the posts like yours and I am even more sure that the thing to do is leave. I am quite capable of having a life without him. I would never deprive him of what he wants..the problem is he doesn't know what he wants.....All he knows is the "warm blanket" feels good to a person who doensn' know how to make himself happy!!!!<P>I don't mean this to sound harsh but GROW UP. It's the best thing you can do for yourself and your children. DEAL with it. DO something...It is emotional abuse to do otherwise. <P>My H.s siblings think I should begin thinking of myself...taking care of myself and the kids. I started today to talk to my children about leaving this house. I have no family of my own. I am about 9 hours away from my friends. My kids only have me to rely on...I have to be in a place where I can maintain my sanity. It is not here in this house. I believed my H was what he was...I believed my life was what it was...it wasn't and so I am going to find another life....

NoMas,<P>First, having read this whole thread, I feel for your situation. However, the reality is that you will have to make the first steps. No one else can do it for you. You know that, so why am I posting this to you?<P>Well, it seems to me your lack of decision and action, is very possibly due to depression. That wouldn't be surprising now would it? If you aren't already on anti-dep. I would strongly recommend a visit with your physician or a physician and get this checked out. It is the first step you need to take no matter what else you do.<P>The next step is that you need to talk with W. You know that, I know that, everyone here knows that. But how to do it. Well, she knows you and OW met. You haven't met since, but you are in contact. I think you need to ask your W for help. There is no good time to do this, so now is as good a time as any.<P>I suppose you could wait to see if anti-D's help if you get them, but it seems to me you need your W's help with this situation. As for the withdrawl, well is it going to be worse than what you are in now? I doubt it.<P>Can you recover your marriage? You know you can. It is done here frequently, but you have to work on it and that cannot happen until you get sorted out.<P>Now you could try to go the route that Jill, Lacee, and others are trying, not telling spouse but breaking off the affair. <P>NoMas there are many options but they all require you to act. <P>So step one is address depression if it is the case.<P>Step two ask you W for help with withdrawl, now that she is out of school. <P>Step three spend time with your W, and get to know each other again. It seems that neither knows the other very well after these years of school and such.<P>After you do those steps, you will be ready to do some other things, but take these baby steps, NoMas. <P>You may want to consider counseling with the Harley's. I know that K must have mentioned this to you. After all he is ... well connected right K? <P>But NoMas, do the baby steps. It works no matter which side of this issue you are on.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

just learning,<P>I wish my H were the one you were responding too. Everyone (family, friends) believe that my H is depressed. He sleeps about 4 hours a night. <P><BR>He is in counseling. Others have told him...he still denies... I think nothing we can say can make people aware.<P>S. Harley told me that my H was like a drug addict and he would have to hit bottom. Well I am at the 6 month mark of D day and Plan A. I guess when I start plan B he will hit bottom!