NoMas...<BR> I feel very deeply for you. You remind me of my H back in December or so...a basically good, principled man in a situation he stupidly let himself slip into, and now cannot extricate himself from without a lot of pain to all. It was important to me to realize that my H was in pain also, that he was torn...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How...in the world, do I tell her I am so deeply involved emotionally with this same woman, and that in my attempt to "come home" I am going to go through some deep<BR>withdrawl ....and if she ask me "did I ever tell this woman I loved her", how do I tell her yes without ripping her heart out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There's no good way. My H was very, very reluctant to tell me, because he thought he could deal with this on his own, but it did not work. Finally, he told me that our marriage <B>was</B> important to him, that he wanted to be happy married to me, but that he has "feelings" for someone else, and it was preventing him from being able to fully throw his heart into working on our marriage. Of course, I asked if he loved her...he said he was having a very difficult time, was trying not to, but did feel "in-love" with her.<P> He did some good things that helped me...he told me he WANTED to be in-love with me, not her, and was trying. He asked me to give him time. He never defended himself, but told me he knew he was at least as much to blame as I was for the fact that our marriage wasn't great before all this. He held me when I needed a hug, and left me alone when I wanted to be alone. When I told him I was angry and felt betrayed, he told me that he could not blame me a bit. We basically supported each other, whether he was crying bcs he missed her, or I was crying because I felt betrayed. We did the EN q'aires here, bcs we realized that our marriage needed improvement, and the follow-up exercises. We read "Surviving an Affair" and talked a little about that. Things are good now and getting better all the time. It was like going through a tornado...but everything that was worth keeping made it through, and a lot of the garbage got blown away. Some things are being rebuilt, and are stronger now than ever before.<P>So, do tell her. Expect a lot of turmoil, but be sure she knows that you are in turmoil too, and are telling her of this because your marriage IS important to you...<P>Prayers for you, my friend...<P>Kathi

Hi NoMas -<P>Your last post drove me to tears...you get down to some really deep and true exposure of your feelings and emotions.<P>This is the way to talk with your wife.<BR>Don't sugar coat....don't hold back...don't suck it up and sound matter-of-fact. Just put it all out there....from your soul, ya know?<P>Let her hear your torment, fear and confusion....<P>Hearing that will impact her so much that her concentration may very well take the form of easing your pain moreso than her own. I am not sure of this, we are all different, but I know that if it is true raw emotion and not false bravado or sugar coated BS - then I can <BR>focus on what to do to help and make the marriage better rather than swim in hurt, pain and uncertainty.<P>Follow what JL has advised.....baby steps. Just keep being honest and "real" with yourself and everyone else.<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>PS - Forgot to ask this.....How much does your wife know about MB - like the principles, POJA, ENs, filling needs interdependency, etc.? Is she familiar with the fact that this can happen if things are "off" in the relationship and that it can be worked through? <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited May 17, 2000).]

NoMas,<P>I just had another thought. I know very dangerous. But your description of your W's reaction to the meeting and such as been bugging me a bit. Somehow it sounded off to me.<P>I was wondering if your W is also feeling guilty for the state of the marriage. She knows she has been off to school. She knows she hasn't paid much attention to you. And she knows something is obviously wrong because of the first lady last year and now this OW.<P>Is it possible that she realizes that she has been less than the perfect W and is mad/angry not just because of your behavior but her role? If this is the case, then it is important that you reassure her that you want this marriage to work. It would be very painful, but their may be guilt issues on both sides. <P>So much to say and think about, but NoMas it seems all avenues out of this mess lead to the same step: talking with your W. Your going to need each others help with this no matter what is decided.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

In answer to a few of the previously asked questions..<P>My wife is not all that familiar with MB. I mentioned it to her last spring when I came across this sight...ordered the book, "His Needs/Her Needs", and I even printed out a book of stuff of the concepts page. I thought it was wonderful material. She just never really has had the time or "want to" to start reading through a lot of it, mainly for two reasons. She has been overloaded with school material to read and study, plus, once she realized that I "met the OW" here, there is a bit of a bad taste in her mouth of this web sight, which I can understand. Ironically, I know the same to be true for my friend and her husband. He feels the same way about MB, which is sad, because the concepts and material here I believe is very practical and beneficial.<P>My wife is not much of a communicator. She tends to bottle things up and say little. She is not one who is quick to admit her own faults with what I would call genuine sorrow. Probably a pride issue here. I would imagine JL, that there could be some buried "guilt" in her realizing that it takes "two" to make a marriage work. <P>I have always been the one that was willing and able to "talk first" and "express sorrow" and "admit fault" in the marriage. I don't mean to make her out to be some cold, hard-hearted woman. We are just "wired" differently. Because she keeps so much bottled up, would also suspect that she too is hesitant of "opening up" for fear of what could come 'blowing out"of her own heart as well. I know that when I confessedto the meeting back in January, that not a whole lot was resolved afterwards. She expressed briefly the other night that she still has a lot of pent up anger that she does not know what to do with. She really is afraid, much like me, to just open up for fear of hurting me as I am about hurting her.<P>For example, back last spring, when I was somewhat "crying out" for help from her, she was somewhat stressed with everything...told me she was hesitant to just speak her heart for fear of hurting me, and when I pressed her on it, that is when she just blurted out that between school and the kids, she just didn't have much left to give me. I knew then why she was reluctant to talk. And that was a pretty effective blow to me. I felt like I had no place to go then.<BR> The school was very important to finish. We were both in agreement over that...for various reasons. I did not want to sabatoge that in anyway. So you can see why I am reluctant to press issues...sort of like walking through a minefield or on eggshells.<BR>I just never know when a "good time" is. Honestly, I think she would justlike me to get my "act together" and get back to "normal". <BR> Sadly, she told me recently that she realized that I have changed...and will never be the same again to her. Well, who of us ever "stay the same?"<BR> We both, are really so stressed and locked in our own private pain right now, that neither of us really know what to do. I think it unnerves her a bit, to see me so quiet and withdrawn, since I have always been the "talker and communicator" in the marriage. I don't even initiate the sex anymore...I got so tired of the "rejection" and "to tired" tonight replies. I think that has worried her as well...to see me losing "interest" in that department. I told her not long ago...that it just wasn't worth it to me anymore to try in that area.<BR> I have not given up on the marriage. For some crazy reason, call it faith, I still think we can get through this. I don't have a clue how it will happen. I just want to go to sleep, wake up, and have it be over. Guess a lot of us would like that, eh?<P>****sigh*****

Trust me...you CAN get through it. But, you need your wife's help to do so.<P>NoMas, ther's never a good time to tell her. Just do it, and be sure she knows you are talking to her because the marriage is important to you...that you are not throwing it & her away...but want her help...<P>Kathi

Boy so many places to go....where to start.<P>Maybe with a story of hope... Draw the parallels where you can. I can't guarentee things will go this way for you, but I wanted you to see that there is an opposite side from the nightmare you are envisioning...<P>I've already told you about what happened prior to D-Day. There were actually two D-Days. I had had an argument one morning with him before going to school about coming to bed with me at night. I knew he'd been staying up till 2 or 3 in the morning to talk to her, but still didn't know the full truth. I asked him how he could continue to deny me this one request when he knew it meant alot to me. He told me matter of factly that it was because he wasn't attracted to me. He was repulsed by me. It made his skin crawl to have to sleep next to me. Here I thought our marriage was back on track. That was sure a wake up call. A week later he had cybersex with her right in front of me. He didn't know I was close enough to see the screen. A week after that he let me read the email where he told her he was sure I knew it was over, how he wanted nothing more than to be with her. As all of this came out emotionally I was in shock. Somehow I managed to calmly walk into the bedroom and asked him if we could get counseling. I managed to ask him what had gone on. I managed to swallow down most of the tears, and bite back most of the anger. There was one thing in the front of my mind...I love this man, find a way to save this marriage.<P>It wasn't that I believed I would be alone...It wasn't that I believed I was as hideous as he had made me out to be. I knew I could find somebody else and have happiness, but this man had given up his blanket to me when I was cold, even though it left him cold, he had held my hand at my grandmothers funeral, he had cheered me on when I got my first job out of college, he had held me when I wasn't sure I could be a good teacher, he backed me up with friends even though he knew I was wrong, I could go on. I believed in him, I believed in me, I believed in us.<P>I can't say the road was easy. He was determined to convince me that he was a lost cause. He's a Taurus, and fits the bill of stubborness quite accurately (he'll tell you that himself.) I knew I could be just as stubborn, and I was patient besides...<P>We went through 3 months of intense withdrawal. I think there was some serious depression issues too. (he had lost his job so had quite a few feelings of worthlessness) During that time if I so much as touched him he would writhe away. We didn't talk too much/on my therapists advice I kept the conversations superficial. My emotions were still raw...his were raw, and I think any attempt to cover issues would have probably swept us into a huge LB battle. We did alot of recreation time together. At first it was activities that we could safely engage in that didn't open up alot of opportunities for talking...Movies, sporting events, comedy clubs. Little by little we started talking on deeper levels. It took 5 months before conversation was at a place to start working on Sexual fulfillment. Two months later we began working on Affection. <P>Today...I have a sense that we are going to make it. It's so great to see him move into my touch rather than writhe away from it. He coos when I tell him I love him. He tells me he loves me. (he still acts a little scared to tell me that, but we're still growing.) He takes it upon himself to do little jobs around the house. (I fought with him for three years on this issue. I can't possibly begin to explain how encouraged I feel at the fact he does these things.) He told me this morning that he was sorry for leaving the tv on all night...(evidence that I exist again in his world, and he is concerned how his actions might affect me.) <P>I think back on D-Day and all the horrible things he said. They don't matter any more. It's an event in my life just like any other. The intense sadness is gone, the anger is gone. What matters to me now is going home and seeing him smile, cuddling in his arms, laughing at his jokes, beating him at a board game (lol). (ok. ok he usually beats me.) <P>I wrote in my calendar somewhere in the midst of all of my misery after D-Day, "This too shall pass." I knew even then that I would crawl out of the abyss, that it was a moment, that I had the strength to make it through.<BR>You do too.