Momma:<P>You aren't discouraging me, it helps to understand the other side as well. I have been concerned about contact and it has happened. I was just curious about the emotions it makes one feel. It is hard for anyone no matter what side of the affair you are on. <P>You asked if we are married and yes we are. I am doing ok for the most part I have bad days as well. We are working on making our marriage better then before. Time & patience is the key for everyone. <P>I appreciate your help.<P>BH

Sorry my posts are messed up. For some reason, it's not updating, and the only way I can read other replies is if I go to "post reply" at the bottom of screen. I don't know what the deal is. They're probably tired of me posting so much today! <P>

Momma:<P>Explain something for me, why would OW go to the same place when she knows my h is there and yet she is pregnant by her h? <P>This hurts a lot and I am not use to any contact and since it has been four months, I don't get it.<P>BH

Hi Momma, Sifted, and Bighope...<P>Momma...thanks again for your insight. You must be one incredibly strong woman! I love your question...you must have been reading my mind about the "friendship question." My OM and I thought we could be friends, we actually parted ways saying we still very much wanted to be friends. We've tried, but it's really hard. That's the key to this entire problem....because contact is made when you're friends. On one hand, yes it's been nice being on a platonic, friendship level, but we're both still to afraid of how to keep a safe distance, if you know what I mean. The OM and I used to relate on such a deep level, and naturally, that has changed. But we can still talk about personal issues. I'm still not certain I can or should be his friend. I honestly wish we'd never messed that friendship up like we did. He was an awesome friend, and we are so very much alike. He totally understood me in a way my H never has. <P>You and Sifted totally understand this! We are all experiencing the same type of feelings. I, too, talked to my H about the feelings of withdrawal. Yes, he does know about OM (most, but not all of it, however). He is/was very confused by all of it. He knows the OM and I had a powerful emotional attachment, one that my H and I never have shared. But that is something I have to let go of. The OM is also married, unlike Momma's situation. So I knew we would only hurt and destroy our spouses if we continued on the path. <P>I also try to focus on the negatives to try to deal with staying away. But the good creeps in as well. My counselor has helped me a lot. He has assured me that my H and I will one day be as passionate as my relationship with OM. We're just not there yet...and have a very long way to go. <P>Momma, your description of just plain old having a bad attitude is how I feel. I'm so moody it's unreal. I'm so angry at myself for all of this mess! That's a big one for me. I know the enemy will use that anger to condemn us and keep us in a perpetual state of rage, but I am not going to allow that! Some days are certainly better than others...and yesterday was a big yucky day! <P>Oh, yeah, Momma, you had asked about your H working the late shift. That's us too! My H works nights and that does make it difficult doesn't it? We discussed that today...and we would both prefer him home at night, but he doesn't have much choice. So, like you, I come here and "talk" to you and others. It's such a comfort. I work my own hours, so it's nice for me.<P>Sifted...hang in there! And at least know that I'm right in the middle of this as well. We will get through this! I know we will. God's promise to us is that He will never leave us nor forsake us! That we can do ALL things through Christ....even get through this. Knowing that we are doing what He would expect from us. Repenting and turning away from our sin! <P>Bighope....in response to your question, I'm so sorry for your pain. Perhaps the OW was just so deeply entrenched in the withdrawl, that to see your H so consumed her. Sometimes there is no rational explanation in this kind of weird relationship mess. It makes people do the strangest things. Things you would normally never do. It takes so much strength to let go...she probably just caved in. Sounds as if your husband didn't give her any sign that would lead her to believe there's any chance of starting up again. Maybe that's all she needed to let go for good. <p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 19, 2000).]

Momma,<P>You asked a question about your husband working nights again. I'm not sure what you are referring to, so I can't answer that right now.<P>I hope we didn't bring on your sad feelings by talking about our struggles today! You were doing so well. Our moods are certainly affected by what we dwell on. I admire your decision to stay with your husband and that you keep reminding youself of that choice. I think it would be especially hard since the OM was single.<P>In my case the OM is also married, so we are both OP and WS. That has plenty of its own complications. Sometimes it is hard to believe I am even in this situation and typing this. <P>You asked if I made a decision between OM or husband. For me the circumstances have a big influence on my decision. Initially my decision is not based on feeling "in-love" at this time for my husband, or even evaluating and deciding he is best. At least at this point I can't say that. I think it was NoMas who said something about, given different circumstances (being free, etc), he might very much like to choose the OW. I could probably say that too, but given our situations and committments we've made long ago, I don't feel like I can have/choose the OM. I have read that some think that is "unfair" or "dishonest" towards husband (to go back because it is the "right" thing to do). I see it as a starting point, with the hope that more will develop and I will put effort into that. Isn't that what a committment really is: sticking by someone whether you feel like it or not (feelings come and go).<P>The challenge about a promise to someone "until death do us part" is that we do change and grow (sometimes independently of each other) and that can influence how we feel towards someone. In my case, the OM would often say, "I wish I had met you long ago", to which I would think/reply, "I wasn't the same person then. I have grown and matured". So, we do change (hopefully for the better), and that is where committment and real love comes in. <P>Well, now I'm rambling for sure. These are many thoughts going through my head these days about love, committment, life, fulfillment. At the same time I struggle with the loss because I really liked who I was when I was with the OM (and I don't believe it was all fantasy). It seemed like a good "match" for this time in my life, but love doesn't work that way! And the loss is giving that up.<P>Hope I didn't turn your thoughts back to OM. I think I better go do something else now too, to get my mind somewhere else. SIGH. Life is hard, but good can come from it. (Does this sound like a "pep" talk? - probably is!)

Just had to post a little more since I just saw Wings post. Thank you, Wings, I can really identify with all you say, especially about being such a good friend with the OM and way you related on such a deep level, which you haven't attained with your husband. Well, that is my case, too, and I'm not sure it will ever be there, given our personalities. We had a talk about it yesterday and he said if we are out hiking (recreation is our one area we do get along greatly in), he just wants to experience everything around him and I want to talk about things, ideas, etc (I'm an intuitive and he is sensing). In a way I'm "interrupting his experience in nature", but I am so inspired to share things at those moments! I live in a world of ideas and he lives in the world of senses around him. At least we both realize it now (which is how the "types" help), but that doesn't mean anything will change, we just know how we are different! Well, maybe something can be worked out, but it has made it kind of a lonely relationship for me. I'm sure you both understand.<P>I think it would be very difficult to stay friends with the OM. I would love to also, but there are so many feelings, I don't think it could be kept at a friendship level, even if we tried. I am sorry, too, I messed up the friendship part, but I'm not sure how the progression could have stopped anyway. A relationship grows and develops, you can't really keep it at a certain level, which is why "opposite" sex friendships are difficult to maintain in adulthood.<P>Just some thoughts, but I know how you both feel...<P>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 19, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 19, 2000).]

I have rarely written here,but I usually come to the sight several times a week and read. As you can tell by my name, I had an affair with one of "our" best friends. We went to church together, vacationed together, and spent most weekend evenings together. Our children were best friends as well. Somewhere along the way, the OM started meeting unmet needs I had. I didn't communicate to my H what was missing, and then got angry at him for not knowing. Anyway that is a brief background of my affair. The OM was ready for us to leave our marriages and start over. He proposed several times. I knew I had to work on my marriage. Not only because it's the Christian thing to do, but because I married a man I loved, and he deserved that commitment from me. It's been a little over five months since the relationship ended. He did talk to me once 4 months ago at church when we both happened to be in a hallway alone. They have since left our church about 3 months ago, so I haven't seen him since then. <BR>I understand how difficult this is for you all. It's encouraging to me to hear from other women who have been in the same situation as me. I missed the OM like an addiciton the first few weeks. Now I wonder more about whether it's been hard for him to get over me! (I know that sounds rather snobbish!) My husband knows everything about the affair and we are working to rebuild our marriage. It's not an overnight thing. My advice to you all is to keep working though. You will build a closeness with your husband if you try. I look at what my life would be like now if I had left my husband for the OM and I'm so glad I'm here. I still care about OM, and had known him for 9 years, so I don't think it was fantasy . I do think the picture he painted of our future together was fantasy. I think I was the newest acquisition in his life, and my husband has deep unconditional love for me. <BR>I have truly felt the pain you all are feeling. It takes time, prayer, patience, and lots of love. We aren't a success story yet, but we get closer every day. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to offer some encouragement!

Momma, sifted, wings,<P>I feel like apologizing whenever I post to you guys, 'cause I'm one of the few betrayeds that consistently seeks out your threads.<P>I don't know why, but I can identify with everything you say except missing the OM since there was no OM.<P>I identify with so much of what you say about how different we are, about how I see Harley principles really working (did you catch my story thread?), yet still wondering if it can ever be sooo intense?<P>I mentioned once that one thing I learned about him from the emails with OW was that he can be very tender and caring. I thought he could turn that my way, but it was many months (even since he says he is over OW) before I felt the tenderness. But the intensity...the expression of it was all on her side. But I could tell how deeply he felt it as I gave him a shoulder to cry on during withdrawal.<P>So it may be that our hs aren't so much incapable of feeling intensely as expressing those feelings??<P>I hear some questions about being better matched with the OM. I wonder if he would be here if he had been better matched with OW. Although the intense feelings were there, she was 21 and he was smart enough to realize there was no long term anything there. So it was that mostly, doing the "right" thing, especially for the kids. He apparently felt nothing for me.<P>I too wonder if I could not find a better match. Those first weeks after discovery I wanted to meet someone myself. Not to get back at him, no. Such a hunger was awakened in me to experience that in-loveness myself. I had been committed to him through the years of not having my needs met, and suddenly I felt I was no longer obligated to him, not since he had broken his vows.<P>But even before I read of all your struggles I know an EA is not the answer. I have set my heart on the goal of a wonderful relationship with my h and I'm staying the course.

Hi I am the Cheater!<P>Thanks for your story. It is such an encouragement. I know some people think "Christian" and "affair" don't belong in the same sentence. I have no justifiable explanation or defense for my own actions. I am a sinner, I have fallen and I am repenting. Thank God for His mercy and grace to cover me.<P>I have had the same thoughts regarding the "fantasy". I don't think every affair relationship is based on fantasy, but I agree that the idea that it will "all work out and everyone will adjust and be happy (including children) IS a fantasy. <P>I haven't had any counseling (nor has my husband), but I think it is a necessary part of the healing process. It seems very important for building a stronger marriage, which is my desire. Anyone have any thoughts about this? In our area it is hard to find good Christian counselors. Possibly we will have to drive 45 minutes to an hour. We tried in January to get an appointment with some Christian counselors in another town - and they were totally booked. I think God has His perfect timing, and maybe now we should pursue it again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by siftedlikewheat:<BR><B>I haven't had any counseling (nor has my husband), but I think it is a necessary part of the healing process. It seems very important for building a stronger marriage, which is my desire. Anyone have any thoughts about this? In our area it is hard to find good Christian counselors. Possibly we will have to drive 45 minutes to an hour. We tried in January to get an appointment with some Christian counselors in another town - and they were totally booked. I think God has His perfect timing, and maybe now we should pursue it again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Siftedlikewheat,<P>How about the Harley phone counselling? We counselled with Jennifer Harley, a great Christian counsellor. She co-wrote SAA with her father and helped us take the necessary steps towards rebuilding.<P>Not sure if that's what you meant by "healing". She said it was their experience not to tackle the pain head on, that it would heal in time if the relationship was strong. That has been very true.<P>Being on the phone was not awkward as I originally feared, and it saved getting sitters and driving. If you prefer a man, there is her brother Steve, both very well qualified.<BR>

Hi Guys...<BR>Gosh...take away the names...and no one could guess who wrote what...since all of us could have said the same exact thing.<BR> <BR>Wings....I was unaware you were still battling with contact. I have stayed away from the boards lately. The whole friendship thing is so true. My friend and I, (yes...we resumed contact)...have a very deep emotional bond...and since we are miles apart, it is an EA for obvious reasons. But talk about being able to talk,share, open up freely.... I never had anything like this in my own marriage. And I don't mean to suggest my marriage was "bad". But I got a taste of something that truly is hard to turn away from.<P>Sifted....how long has it been since you were in contact with OP?<P>Schizzo...I saw your post a few nights ago...about your eyes filling up with hot tears wondering why your husband could not love you like he loved the OW. That was the last post I read...didn't even know what to say to you. I felt bad that my words made you feel that way.<P>I know so many have urged me to share with my wife about my struggle...but there are reasons (which I cannot post here) as to why I cannot do that at this time. I am not trying to carry a "martyr's flag"....but it can be a painfuly lonely struggle.<P>I know all the truth, logic, and reason there is about my case. Problem is...my heart is unyielding. I am in love with a woman in the deepest sense...and both of us, as strongly as we feel for each other, both know that we cannot have each other. Yet...we both have failed miserably at trying to break off contact. And with each failure, the sense of defeat comes back stronger on us. We have likened it to trying to climb out of a very steep and icy slope or ditch. We make one small step forward, and then we slip right back.<P>So...as you can see....I have no encouraging news for anyone here. But...that is where I am at these days. <P>****sigh*****

NoMas,<P>Please don't feel bad about your words affecting me.<P>It was really weird the way I broke down and cried, out of the blue. But it led to a good discussion with my h - can't remember exactly - something about not longing for one who is there, the feelings we're looking for may be different.<P>As you can tell by my last post here, the biggest question I have is still whether we can really get to an intensity I long for...<P>Yet at the same time I post my story of hope with equal passion. Maybe I'm still living up to my name - schizzo.<P>Did any of you read my story? Did it make sense?

schizzo...<BR>When I read your post the other night....I went out for a long walk. Lots of thoughts I chewed on.<P>I think you might have been the one who mentioned that God gave Eve to Adam to meet certain needs. I was reminded how it was God who said: "It is not good for man to be alone." <BR>That was why he created Eve. <BR>Sadly...so many spouses today...though married, are so very much alone. I don't think I even realized how lonely I was...until my friend (DJ) came along. She too was experiencing the same loneliness in her own marriage. We started out encouraging each other....and ended up allowing our own hearts to be knit together.<P>Many marriages...that 'drift' to this point, did not get there overnight. And they are not fixed overnight. It must be a painfully slow process. I am not sure what it takes...to motivate oneself....to put forth the effort...when you are so tired....and have "tasted of something"....that seems so much wonderful than anything you have tasted of in the past.<BR>Sure....everyone says it is a make-believe fantasy.<BR>I am not sure I buy that. Oh...I see where some of that comes into play. But...."DJ" will always....be a person...who I know would be a perfect fit in my life...if ever the opportunity allowed itself.

NoMas,<P>Actually I agree, it is not always or only fantasy. I think your case is very different from my h's in that. That's why I said earlier that if he had picked a better match in the OW, he might not even be here today.<P>He's different from a lot of guys here. He was definitely looking for "love", it was never a friendship that crossed the line. She was 21, pretty, and so vulnerable. He wanted to know if he had what it takes to make her fall in love. He didn't expect to fall in love also. At least that's what I get out of it. Sex was not what he was after, but a way of winning her heart. They did it on the first date.<P>There is still anger that pops up now and then. I was home taking care of two small kids, I felt he had shut me out and never bonded with them. And still I was trying to do the best I knew how.<P>He never had to worry whether they would be well cared for. I was here taking care of them while he was off in Brazil. I thought he was working hard and sleeping alone in his hotel. But neither were true. His trips became more and more about being with her. They stayed up all night, woke up next to each other. He even told me she snored.<P>Then he would come home and pretend everything was fine. I called a lot when he was gone, never thought I needed to check on him, just to talk to him. She was there sometimes when we talked.<P>I honestly never thought I would be facing this in my life. I didn't marry until almost 30 because I waited a long time to meet the "right" guy, and I believed it was wrong to have sex outside of marriage, even when I was single so I waited. Now, I am facing the fact of teaching my kids, and I just don't know anymore.<P>We have set up our entire lives by the teachings of the Bible, so I could not understand him doing this. Six months with one woman (this while I waited for his flight from Mexico, he took an earlier flight and lied and saw someone in town), then a few months off till he met #2. I don't believe committment is enough. I've learned the hard way that Harley is right. But what happens if I'm incapacitated or something? He runs from problems.<P>Sorry for the ramble. Maybe it's 'cause he's in Brazil, her place.

Hey NoMas...<BR>Where have you been? I've been wondering how you were doing. <P>Yes, I hate to admit it...my "no contact" didn't last very long. I see you're in the same boat. My "friend" and I have stayed away from one another, but he still emails me and wants to "talk"....I know everyone's advice is to just stop all communication...we do and then before long, we're talking again. Can we be friends...as Momma asked...is it really possible? I don't know the answers. <P>Thanks for jumping in here and joining us....it helps to know others out there understand! We all need to support each other through this difficult journey. <P>Schizzo..<BR>I'm not certain where you posted your story, but from what I read, you and your husband are trying to make that connection as well. Is that right? If he's going through what the rest of us are, he's trying with everything he has to get right with you, his wife, and make your marriage better. Did he get emotionally attached to this OW? Or was it just a fling? In any event...I'm sorry for your pain as well. It's got to be difficult for you to read this thread! <BR>I can tell you my husband is trying to understand what it was that attracted me emotionally to the OM so that he can try to fill that void. He always knew I felt it, but he didn't really take it seriously until I revealed some of the reality of my relationship with OM. Now he's listening and we're both working on communicating. <BR>Are you in counseling? <BR> <p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 20, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bighope:<BR><B>Momma:<P>Explain something for me, why would OW go to the same place when she knows my h is there and yet she is pregnant by her h? <P>This hurts a lot and I am not use to any contact and since it has been four months, I don't get it.<P>BH</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>First of all, not to stir up any trouble, are you positive the child she's pregnant with is her H's? Just wanted to make sure. BH, it's hard to explain, but it's so hard to stay away from OM. Especially for a woman. I don't know if she's intentionally trying to start something or if she just wants to see your H. I know you said it's been four months, but she still may be in withdrawal. I hope things get better for you. Since it didn't affect your H, I wouldn't worry about it to much. Just keep working on your marriage like you have been. Sometimes we have to go through those little obsticales, and I sure don't know why! It seems like when you're doing really well, something comes along and hits you! Hang in there! Sounds like your H is doing alright.<BR>

momma:<P>You aren't stirring up anything. I know ow isn't pregnant by my h. During these months of no contact how much pain he has been in. We are making steps forward. I also know she wanted to get pregnant by my h (my h told me she wanted too - scary). <P>I remember how things were during his affair, how he treated me and such (didn't understand what was happending at that time. He is starting to become the man I feel in love with again. He treats me so much better!! I watch for signs all the time. I really feel he is doing so much better.<P>Thanks for your concern, <BR>BH

Wow! I don't even know where to start, there's so many posts!<P>NoMas, I'm glad to see you post again. You're right about all of us being in the same boat. It's not the best place to be. I wish you the best w/your struggle, but I can promise it won't get any better until everything is straightened out w/your W and OW, both. I know you may feel a little better right now having contact w/OW, but it doesn't solve your problem. I hope your pain ends soon, believe me, I know what you're going through.<P>Schizzo, please don't feel like you should apologize to us for posting to us just because you're on the other side. If you can relate, it helps all of us. You can help us, too, because we can see the position our H's are in. I'm sorry that we're all here for the reasons we are, but I'm not sorry that I get to "talk" to all of you. You don't know what a tremendous help this has been for me!<P>I'm the cheater,<BR>I'm glad to hear your success, although I know you've probably worked hard to get there. I definitely can relate to you, too. Do you still ever miss OM? Do you struggle w/that at all? It sounds like you're doing really well. I think the best remedy is time. It's so good to hear how your relationship is getting better w/your H. I'm experiencing that, too, and trying to explain it to Sifted and Wings. You can get closer, but I think some take more work than others. You said, "I look at what my life would be like now if I had left my husband for the OM and I'm so glad I'm here." I could have written that statement myself!! I totally agree w/you there. When I think about XOM, I just remember comments like that. Thank you so much for the encouragement, it does help tremendously!<P>

Wings, I'm so glad you're here! You understand so well how I feel, it sounds like you're feeling the same way. I can't talk to my H any about XOM, because he hates him so much. He wouldn't understand why I'd still have feelings for OM. Other than that, we communicate really well. We just don't discuss that and everything's just fine. He really doesn't understand how deep it was either. If he does, he doesn't express it. I also don't want to put him through anymore pain or agony, because I've already put him through so much. Do you know what I mean?<P>I'm not as strong as you think! I'm trying, but I'm not very strong at all, sometimes!<P>And about the "being friends" issue. You're also right, but sometimes I like to imagine it's possible that we could be friends! Fat chance, I know!! <P>Another issue, my littlest one looks SO much like XOM. Sometimes, it really gets to me, then other times it doesn't. I don't really know how to deal with that some days. There's not much I can do about it, it's just something I have to live with. I'm still scared one of these days he's going to call and demand to see the little one. Guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. Some days when I'm weak, I worry that I'll give in to him if he does contact. Just venting again!<P>Have a great day!!! <P>

Bighope,<BR>I'm so glad for your positive steps forward! I'm also glad that the OW's child is her H's. That helps the situation, for you anyway! I'm so happy that everythings going well! Your story is encouraging, too! Thank heaven that you and your H have been able to work it out. It's nice to hear the positive stories! Keep up your hard work!! <P>