Nomas, thank you for the page reference. I have this book and several others by Dr. Harley, but I will not be at home for several days. I will respond immediately when I can get my hands on my book because I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT believe that Dr. H is saying that the feelings of "love" that wayward spouses have for the op are really love - addiction yes; real love, no.<P>

Leilana....<P>You really puzzle me.<BR>You wrote:<P>"You may be harmless and powerless, NoMas. But never doubt that YOU are being<BR> manipulated by someone who isn't. I have no doubt you and he are not one and the<BR> same. But you seem to be doing his work here."<P>Just WHAT is this "work" of his that you think I am doing??????<BR>And why in the world do I 'rile' you up so?<P>Listen.....I come here to "vent" as many people do. The things I have expressed about this OW and how I feel about her...are very deep and our hearts were very much entangled with each other. The more we struggled to get loose from them, the tighter they seem to ensnare us. I have spilled my guts here sharing the despair and torment of being in such a place. I KNOW it is wrong...sin...and against everything God stands for...and His institution of marriage. That adds to the agony that I feel.<P>I could never share the depth of this turmoil I feel...to my wife. I don't know how she could bear it. I can only give her "bite-sizes" at a time for her to digest. If there is any good from my posting here where other betrayed wives might read....would be this: Perhaps I have enabled them to see what similar struggles their WS are going through. Not to garnish sympathy, but simply understanding. Reading the post of their broken hearts, has helped me so much...keep from going over the edge. Their encouragement to share with my wife...and the horrors of what they have felt...have helped me see into my wife's own broken heart. I apprecciate this so much. I know...that I am going to find my way home...and that my marriage is going to be restored...and better than ever. I have no doubt of this anymore.<BR>This has been one 'hell' of a journey...and there is still some distant to travel.<P>But I really think you are barking up the wrong tree to imply that I am being 'used by Satan' here on these boards. Who knows, perhaps many other readers do as well. I have simply opened my heart and been very honest here with what I am going through. <P>I have not given up the fight. I am not going to throw away 19 years of marriage and ruin many lives in the process. Keep in mind that never once have I ever sought to justify my problem here, nor have I looked for others to support me in this destructive relationship. I have also responded to post that were a bit on the "salty" side...just ask "Justlearning"! And I do appreciate her words of encouragement..especially after I announced that my wife was aware of what was going on now.<P>Hey Wesse.....<BR>I didn't say that Harley said it was "real love" that the WS would always have. He just simply stated there that the WS would always be "in love" with the lover, and that he could never have contact with her again. You'll see when you find it there. Someone posted that in his other book "Surviving and affair", that he apparently ommitted this statement, as the book was written later. It would be nice to get a clarification from him on this here. ANyone want to contact him and ask for that?<P>By the way, I am here getting settled in for my week long retreat. I stopped by a library in town to log on....I feel good about being here and am very optomistic about the upcoming week.<P>Thanks again for everyone's support and prayers.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMas:<BR><B>Leilana....<P>You really puzzle me.<BR>You wrote:<P>"You may be harmless and powerless, NoMas. But never doubt that YOU are being<BR> manipulated by someone who isn't. I have no doubt you and he are not one and the<BR> same. But you seem to be doing his work here."<P>Just WHAT is this "work" of his that you think I am doing??????<BR>And why in the world do I 'rile' you up so?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR>Just the fact you put out questions that don't encourage people in their struggles, you make them question why they should even try. You say "How come you don't throw in the towel?" How supportive is that to people already asking themselves how they can possibly have the strength to go on?<BR>That's the "work" I object to. But I guess it's good that we question this belief of Dr. H's, yeah? It needs to be clarified. I don't buy it. You seem to. We are butting heads on this. You stepped on a nerve. That's why I'm riled. But I still love you!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Listen.....I come here to "vent" as many people do. The things I have expressed about this OW and how I feel about her...are very deep and our hearts were very much entangled with each other. The more we struggled to get loose from them, the tighter they seem to ensnare us. I have spilled my guts here sharing the despair and torment of being in such a place. I KNOW it is wrong...sin...and against everything God stands for...and His institution of marriage. That adds to the agony that I feel.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm listening, NoMas. Please VENT! Please do! I do! I never ever was against you expressing yourself. I want to see you move ahead, too. I guess I just want to see you out of your fog so much that I'm expecting too much of you. I want to see you focus on your W and her qualities just as much as you do of the OW and yourself. But you know what--you sound so much stronger today than you did at the beginning of your post. So much less focused on your warm fuzzy feelings towards the OW. I am so thrilled and encouraged! God Bless you, NoMas!<P>Ouch! You called me "salty"! <BR>I like to think of myself more in terms of "spicy"! <P>[QUOTE}<B> Someone posted that in his other book "Surviving and affair", that he apparently ommitted this statement, as the book was written later. It would be nice to get a clarification from him on this here. ANyone want to contact him and ask for that?<BR></B>[/QUOTE]<BR>Someone! That was me, silly! But be sure you don't give me any credit for having a brain, ok!! The books are written 12 yrs. apart. I think he changed his mind after further research and experience. I'm hoping someone calls him, too.<P>Keep up the good work, NoMas!! Remember I'm supporting and encouraging your progress too, even if you don't believe me. I AM praying for you. Going to a luau party now with my H. OW and her H and kids will be there. I'll try not to throw in my towel!!<P><BR>

Oh, Leilana - what I have been missing by not reading here for so long! You make me cheer and laugh! You are wonderful!<P> <P>Try this one and tell me what you think! <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003886.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003886.html</A> <P>You GO girl!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...

Terri, <P>Thanks for that! I was afraid I came across as being scary and unapproachable here when the exact opposite is true. I'm having a day you would not believe. That was a hug for me whether you knew you were doing it or not. <P>I had already read your post in that other thread and was amazed at the work you did there--tho I didn't post under you I was very impressed. I totally agree about it being about the choices we make. Calling our relationships and actions "fate" and "destiny" is a total cop out. <P>It was great what you said and it was a wonderful way that you put it. Keep up the good work! You never know when your thoughts or beliefs or stories my be the reality check or encouragement or warning another person needs or is looking for. I've learned so much from people here. Even (especially?) from the ones I don't always agree with!<P>

Glad I helped you feel better about your posts ... I think you have brought some reality checks to some people, too! Keep up the good work!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...