I have hit the Jackpot tonight. So many old friends with warm support and good advise.<P>TNT...well in theory you are absolutely right. However in practice if I told him I what I wanted to resolve my hurt feelings I'd increase my odds my feelings would be trampled again. Or he would do it, but without emotion, which would completely miss the point.<P>Maybe I am not seeing the obvious, my wise friend. Do you see a solution I could spell out to him?<P>Yes, he is human, well as far as I know <BR>Still I think he could walk away from his Mother's or Father's grave pretty much unfazed, too.<P>He does adore his kids and show affection. Pets, too. Actually he isn't too bad in the physical affection department with me. He has learned to hug.<P>Can you teach someone to feel?

Are you still up tonight too?<P>I just posted a reply on Delilah's thread on intimacy. Sort of off-topic, but it seemed they were still up and it's more like talking when we're on at the same time. Hubby is out-of-town, kids asleep and I'm exhausted but fighting it. I just won my own little battle, though, if you want to read over there...<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Lora,<P>Make it too easy. An interesting point. By the way, I didn't know my Sleeping Beauty Husband slept at your house, too LOL!<P>My H never experienced another serious relationship. His Mom is a little different, but did a great job with the family's physical needs, but too great with the emotional. His dad who is wise and kind was not there too much as he was growing up.<P>I think my H grew up without anyone to mold his emotions positively.<P>I think he takes the physically enablement of his life pretty much as a given, but I don't think he realizes how good he has it with me emotionally. I don't nag. I truly try to accomodate him without complaining whenever possible.<P>Actually if you could rent a naggy *****y wife for a week, I think it would be a great investment.<P>My H does lawn care and car care in addition to providing the majority of the income. I do everything else(I also work 20 hours a week), except when he occasionally steps in.<P>Although he works hard, I think the difference is he gets to be focused and he gets to set his own schedule. He is not use to accomodating and compromising.<P>Too easy? You could have a point, but I signed up for the deal and he really doesn't have more time and I really do want him to spend time with the kids. Don't know what to do with this thought.<P>Too easy?

Yup, I'm up, H on night shift...although now he doesn't have to go in again until the first day of the Art Fair! I'll go and read that thread!

FHL,<BR>MY H is working too and I am going to an art fair tomorrow! I have been working 20 hours a week and so felt it was really my job to do all the household stuff. Now I find out maybe he resented me working part time. I am working my way up to full time in case i have to support myself soon.<P>My H didn't have a good emotional role modle either. His sister told me his Mom didnt want kids and made that clear to them. She is not very good at talking either. Nor was his Dad.<P>My H thinks I nag somtimes, but I truely am very patient. I too wish He could live with a true nag for awhile. Maybe OW will turn into one. <P>I hope you have a great time at the art fair... Where do you live?<BR>Lora

Did your H want you to work more or less? Truth be told, I think my H thinks I should be working full time (I haven't worked full time since my 3rd child was born 5 years ago).<P>My job may be ending due to the business is being sold and a management company will take over. My H is being supportive of me staying home full time for a while because his schedule is so busy and someone needs to shuttle kids, but I think he is only trying to pacify me. He would really rather have me work full time. How he thinks our lives could handle that right now with our views of involvement in our children's lives, I don't know. I do think he thinks I'm slacking, although he would never verbalize it, so I guess it is unfair to assume that.<P>I live in Michigan. I want to go the the Ann Arbor Art Fair.

They are the same man!<BR>Mine wants me to work more too. And we don't have kids so I guess maybe I was a slacker. But he has different days off every week and i have to work regular hours so now that I am full time we only see each other every 6 days for 3 evenings and every 4 weeks for a weekend. Maybe that works out better for him to have an EMA, but not so great for a marriage.<BR>Lora

FHL,<P>Do go and have a good time at the Art Fest.<P>No, I don't think you can teach anyone to feel, but maybe he feels, just doesn't show much. You can only help to improve their actions, the feelings may follow.<P>My clueless one is really doing much better.<P>But it hasn't been smooth sailing. We were talking about separation just last weekend. Some Lbs on both sides, followed by what is just not ACCEPTABLE to him, so I told him what is not ACCEPTABLE to me. I'm sometimes afraid my 5 year old understands far too much. We were having this talk in a hotel room right in front of him.<P>Anyway, it was pretty scary. We've been doing good plan As and suddenly reach a point that we just have to get some things straight, I guess.<P>We never used to argue like this, and I'm sure there is a better way (without the Lbs), but it sure is better than sucking it up like we used to. We really believed we had a good marriage because we never fought. But we never tried POJA before either.<P>Anyway, the oddest thing was that, after all the tension, he was still scared to tell me his opinion about me and my emotions. I told him we had nothing to lose at that point and held my breath. I guess I blew him away because I AGREED with him. I can be as defensive as the next guy, but will not try to defend myself if I agree I'm wrong and I did.<P>So we left it being civil to each other rather than close...And a couple of nights later we had the most awesome sexual experience ever! Was it the openness or the angst of feeling we were losing each other or what???<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Lora...wow...so many men want their women home. I have always tried to sell myself on the idea my H had very equal views of women and men and didn't give much thought to roles, even though the roles we do play are pretty tradional. Oddly it wasn't about the money, either. I think it is more of pulling my weight.<P>Cindy,<BR>I don't know. A few times since this whole mess I really have stood my ground about a few things and the confrontation wasn't pleasant, but it was productive. Most times I figure it is not important enough to argue about. I really am more flexible and more easily content, do I truly don't mind bending most of the time. Can you say conflict avoider that USUALLY can side step resentment? I know you could.<P>I am still not completely comfortable with POJA in my marriage. When two people are so different, even in recreational pursuits, it just seems like compromising the joy out of life. It would simply be impossible to be enthusiastic about everything. I am glad it is working so well for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithHopeLove:<BR>A few times since this whole mess I really have stood my ground about a few things and the confrontation wasn't pleasant, but it was productive. Most times I figure it is not important enough to argue about. I really am more flexible and more easily content, do I truly don't mind bending most of the time. Can you say conflict avoider that USUALLY can side step resentment? I know you could.<P>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Are you calling yourself a conflict avoider? I'm tired, I didn't get the last part.<P>Well, I don't always start the arguments. He basically was all cold and distant and talking about things just not working out. Hours later I found out it was because I forgot to bring the sunscreen to the waterslide!<P>And yet he admitted he could no more have told me what was bothering him before the three hour conversation than I could have. He distanced himself and started telling me it wasn't working, yet he needed my help to figure it out???<P>Obviously there is more to it. He started beating himself up about not bringing it, then asked himself why he should have to worry about it at all with all the things he has on his mind! He was juggling work on his cell phone + he made all the flight/ hotel arrangements for us. He was right! It was the way he got angry and quiet and couldn't tell me why.<P>He has always been a conflict avoider. I have spent the last six months pushing, wanting to know why he was withdrawing emotionally. We came back from a previous trip on cloud nine. Then, he goes alone to OW land and comes back withdrawn. The change was so marked, I thought he had renewed something! But it is his way of working things out or whatever.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited July 13, 2000).]

Yikes. At least mine doesn't want me to stay home...though he vascillates between encouraging me to "develop my career" and "slack off." When I "slack off" (i.e stay where I am in a well-paying but nondemanding job) I have more time to devote to him. But sometimes I think he figures I'm not using my brain enough.<P>I don't know about my H's mother, because she died when he was 12, but from what I've seen of his family, they're of the "hide the emotions" variety.<P>This morning he said, "I know how stressful this is for you."<P>THEN HELP ME OUT A BIT, DAMMIT! DON'T MAKE ME DO ALL THE COOKING, ALL THE CLEANING UP, AND THEN GO UP AND CODDLE YOU!! THEN UNDERSTAND THAT I MIGHT NEED A LITTLE EXTRA TLC.<P>BRAIN DAMAGE!!!<P>This morning I had to tell him how impressive his new biceps are (he's been working with weights in the mornings a bit). Of course, this makes me feel insecure, wondering why he's suddenly taking so much concern with his appearance. You know what that means, right? <P>Or is it just so he looks good on vacation? And for whom?<P>I don't see him quitting smoking, Mr. Health-Conscious.<P>I do think I've taken off a little bit of weight, though. Of course, that's bailing out the ocean with a teacup.<P>Sorry to intrude on your rant, FHL.....

JL is saying he is an amateur??? I am such a novice on these boards and feel very inadequate to even attempt to offer suggestions or advice. Yet, I do want to say that reading some of these posts just made me laugh - and I needed that today! And, I do not mean to say that I am making light of your feelings, FHL - not by any means. But, Ilove the humor in some of the replies - bash his head with a 2x4,claw hammer(one of these would come in very handy right now!!), clueless, brain damage.... so true - I really do think it is "man-think" - JL recommended the book "Men Made Easy" which I am eagerly devouring - it is really giving me a new perspective on "man-think." I highly recommend it. <BR>FHL, my feelings would be hurt, too. Yet, I do agree that he did not intend to hurt...<BR>I am so sorry about your dog - we have one, also, who is getting up there in years(as I am) and I dread when she starts declining because they are such a member of the family!!!<BR>Take care - A

Dazed, you are always welcome to join my party.<P>Thinking back, the last time I started a thread may have been Valentine's Day when I didn't even get a card.<P>Now Dazed, you know he has come far just to acknowledge your stress. Maybe the next step would be for you to agree, tell him that just having him around you is great, then ask him if he would like to do anything to alleviate your stress.<P>Get a brain would be the obvious request, but that would be a LB, wouldn't it?<P>So lets soften that up a bit and say today I need to think about x, y, & z...would it be possible for you to handle one of these things?<P>If he sees your stress, it may make him anxious, but he might not be able to draw the line from point a to point b. In other words, he feels the tension, but feels powerless to address it. He might welcome a suggested task that truly helps you and makes him feel a part of your team.<P>

Men made easy...I'll try to check it out. I must have gotten a basic model with no optional equiptment <P>The maddening thing is, I'd be so easy to please AND I have spelled out what I need. <P>All I need is congruent affirmation in words, body language, tonal quality and actions that I am a priority, I guess really that I am loved and cherished.<P>I don't need gobs of time with him...would be nice, but I'm fine on my own, too.<P>I don't need gifts or bold gestures. I have said before I wouldn't be able to enjoy them due to the head injury I would sustain when my head hit the floor if I did receive a mushy card or a flower or an unexpected gift, even an a expected gift.<P>I don't need him to help around the house.<P>I would love long conversations and exploring ideas together, but that's not going to happen and I have other interesting people in my life...you guys for example.<P>The sliver of time it would take to make me happy would not cut into his schedule. In fact it would save time over-all, because I would be happy as a clam and probably be more efficient and try to communicate with him less. <P>It would be a Win/Win situation. Too bad he can't/won't take that little extra effort

FHL,<BR>If you know your needs, like deep conversation, are there any recreational activities the two of you can do to meet that? Think outside the "box" and use something he likes?<P>One of the best things I did last fall was watch my H's football team, the St. Louis Rams (YEAH SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!) every Sunday with him at a sport's bar. Now I knew or cared very little for football...but now I do (THE IDIOT'S GUIDE TO FOOTBALL was helpful) and my H is always willing to talk about the Rams. He goes to their message boards like I come here. The conversation starts about football, but can segueway into other good topics. I mean, FHL, we were separated most of the football season, yet sat together for a couple hours every Sunday. We were separated when I hosted a superbowl party.<P>I also sometimes just say, I need attention, I need conversation with YOU or call him at work and tell him I need some alone-time with him that evening. He doesn't mind any of these approaches, he'd rather not be guessing and inexplicably disappointing me. Nor does he want me out somewhere else getting my needs met...I guess that's the good God is making from the mess we've made of trying to do things our way.<P>Just some thoughts for you.<P>By the way, I haven't been posting regularly anywhere, but I think something good is coming really soon .

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{FHL}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>You are tired. I understand the dog situation and I think I warned you a while back not to forget to take care of FHL. <BR>It is exhausting to care for a dog in that way but it is also impossible for you or me to even consider putting them to sleep.<P>It is also very tiring to always be responsible for the lion's share of the family. You are doing that. Maybe you do make it easy for him be that way. I know I do the same here. <P>You do have every reason to be disappointed in him. You aren't being oversensitive. Whether he did it on purpose or not, it still hurts that you are not #1 Priority.<P>Don't beat up on yourself for feeling neglected. Remember the Forgiveness Workbook? Allow yourself the feelings. <P>I know they are capable of learning sensitivity. It's just very very slow with some. I get tired sometimes of latching on to one thing in a million that is sensitive, then making a big deal out of it. Sometimes that's all we can do. <P>Hang in there girl. Find a way to have your time for you and the girls. Know that I'm thinking of you!!!

Lor, I eagerly await any good news from you.<P>Since my H only seems to like recreational activities that risk limbs, and I am not all that athletic, when I am sharing these activities I can't afford to talk...I'm concentrating on survival. It is hard to speak with your heart in your throat, anyway.<P>We do both enjoy sailing and maybe next year we will get another sail boat. However my idea of sailing could be set to the music of Christopher Cross. Problem is I think my H would have me out finding the Perfect Storm <P>Football: I love college football. Ironically my H went back for his Masters at my favorite team. He had student season tickets one year and we had a blast at the games. Now at least he tracks the team, but I almost have to teether him in the house to watch all but the biggest games with me. Sometimes it helps to make it a party, but then of course I can't concentrate on the game. Every year I ask for tickets to one game with him for my B. Of course this would require some effort because he would have to contact old profs or friends to scare them up. I try to find my own tickets, but since girls want to go, I alternate years with them. If I put pressure on H, he would go, but what fun is that?<P>Maybe a sailboat is what we need...wouldn't help this summer with H's schedule...maybe next...

WS...I KNEW you'd come!!!!!!!<P>Yup, you know how it is, and you are absolutely right.<P>OK..I'll allow the feelings, but try to stay away from the hammer Dazed suggested <P>Would a little wack with a 2x4 really be so bad? <P>He is sleeping now, but will be up soon. Would you believe he actually had the nerve to say how good it will feel to have the next several days off unexpectedly? The next time he works is the first day of Art Fair next week. He has these days off because he switched to working those days that he had off origionally <P>Now I know he didn't link that statement to my distress, but really, one little wack?

FHL<BR>I think one little wack would be acceptable. <BR>Remember hon, they just don't think the way we do. They don't relate one thing to another. Gosh I really understand.<BR>Maybe we need to learn to separate one event from the next like they do. In his mind, the time off now has nothing to do with the change in schedule. It is about the now and that's it.<BR>Yes you drew me out of hermitland. I've been worried about you.<BR>You know that these long hours of work do nothing for the building of relationships and the recovery. I've been living the same thing as you for a year.<BR>It sucks just a little. H had all this time to devote to the Bimbo. Three day weekends every week during the affair. Now he works 10 hours, 7 days a week? <BR>I think you and I are both feeling a little neglected?<BR>Psst...hug that puppy of yours every chance that you get okay?

FHL,<P>Did you read my 1 am reply? Guess I stayed up longer (and am barely functioning today).<P>Sorry, I went on about myself, but I was trying to talk about pushing him a bit.<P>You said it doesn't take much to make you happy, so you get by with less without building resentment (like I did, boy did I), but is it best?<P>You know, while I was looking for him to get busy with meeting my needs, being more affectionate and stuff, my h was trying to rework his schedule. I didn't get it, why was he focusing there?<P>Now I see that he realized he would need to realign his work if we were to spend time together and as a family on an ongoing basis. He figured this out on his own, there is hope! <BR>At the same time, I hear you WASSY. He had all this free time to spend extra nights away on business trips with the bimbette.<P>All I can say, is try to get inside his head. It's kind of dark and scary in there. Mine tells me that he was at a point in his life that he didn't care about losing his job, he was so caught up in the fantasy and didn't care about the future.<P>It is different with us. We are not some fling, but the future. His career and committment to family are so intertwined in his mind, I can never unravel it. But I understand he is working so hard again BECAUSE of his committment to us and trying to balance the time issue.