Hi Missy...<P>Everytime I read what is going on in your marriage...and following this thread, I am reminded of a facianting account in the Old Testament. The prophet Ezekiel is led up to look over a valley of dead, dry bones. God ask him: "can these bones live?"<P>Ezekiel gives a good answer in replying:<BR>"Lord...only thou knowest"<P>Then, God tells him to speak to the bones and Ezekiel obeys as the winds of God blow through and bring theses bones back to life, flesh and all.<P>You remind me of Ezekiel as you look at the "dead,dry bones" of your marriage. For all natural reasons, it looks pretty bleak. You obviously know more about your marriage situation than anyone else on these boards. But then, God even knows more about it than you.<P>You truly have every 'biblical' reason to move on. But that does not always mean that is what God wants you to do. And only you and God can come to terms with that. It sounds like you have a lot of friends here who are just concerned for you and recognize how vulnerable you are to any kind of attention from any man at this point. <P>You certainly feel that you are entitled to have a healthy and loving relationship, as well as being treated with dignity and respect. No one here would disagree with that. <P>Just make sure you allow things to happen in the best order. If those "bones" are not going to come to life ever again, then bury them first, before moving on. <P>God will guide you my friend.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>Whew! So relieved you have a SOH and LedOL, F A!! <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know what "SOH" is, but what is "LedOL"?

Missy9~<P>Lots of advice here, eh? My guess is that you, the one who will take the action and the one who will experience the consequences, are also the one with the answers. And I think relevant question here is not just, “Should I continue this relationship with this nice man friend?” It is very much also “Should I continue this relationship with my husband?”<P><B>Do you want to save your marriage?</B><P><B>No? </B><BR>Do you expect this friendship to help you get out and if so would it be acceptable to your friend to be used for this purpose?<BR>Do you want this friendship to continue after your marriage ends?<BR>If, in you minds eye, you are actually anticipate a relationship beyond friendship with this man, have you considered the ramifications of it starting out as an affair? Do you really want to find yourself in a relationship with a man who would wink at your marriage? Are you comfortable with how you would feel about yourself if you go beyond friendship while you are still married?<BR>What would you advise your husband if he were considering a similar relationship?<P><B>Yes?</B><BR>Would having this relationship be in aid of that? Or would it be an attempt to comfort yourself in a very uncomfortable time in your marriage?<BR>Is this relationship you are contemplating really likely to be appropriate within a marriage, especially a troubled marriage, in particular <I>your</I>troubled marriage? Will you have to be secretive about it, or can you be open and honest about it? Would you be able to include your husband in it?<BR>Would this friendship make your husband more, or less, inclined to work on fixing your marriage?<BR>Would you want your husband to have an equivalent relationship with a woman?<BR>What would you advise your best friend if she were trying to save her troubled marriage?<P>If you answer is, <B>"I don't know"</B>, well try asking yourself, are you ready to <I>end</I> your marriage? Again, if you don't know, count yourself among the Fence Sitters.<BR>Fence Sitting is a very valuable skill. It is foolish to make decisions without adequate information, even when the only missing input is from yourself. "Do I, don't I…?" Until you have adequate information, you are as likely to make bad choices as good. You <I>can</I> make the choice not to choose yet. That <I>is</I> legitimate. Just keep in mind that you are unlikely to be allowed to sit there forever. You will fall, or be pushed. And when those kinds of things happen, you nearly always find your self on the side of the fence you didn't want to be on. That's a valuable exercise in itself. Imagine being forced into off the fence. Which side do you see yourself struggling toward… or against?<P>Please know, Missy, that there are no right or wrong answers, only honest or dishonest ones. And you don't have to answer on this board, only in your own heart and mind. You can keep working on your marriage, or not. You can even take a bit of a break from working on your marriage without ending it. Just remember that you cannot have an affair, emotional or physical, and expect to be able go back to your marriage.<P>All the best~<BR>DT<BR>

Whoa. Ouch. Bob & weave. Covering my eyes to avoid the virulence. <P>Missy, just make good, thoughtful decisions. <P>I always told myself that I was married and my H's actions had no effect on what was right for me.<P>As I said, my marriage was miserable for 2 solid years. I stayed with it for 18 months. Would I sentence you to that? Nope. I would only tell you that my loving husband is back...and he was SOOOOO gone and has gone to the trouble of wooing (luring? ) me back to our marriage. Still no guarantees, and no matter how I would feel about another man...he wouldn't have a nice airtight warranty and guarantee either.<P>Oh, and when I served my H divorce papers, he told me I could date. Which at that point, I didn't want to do anything he told me to .

Hi everyone,<BR> I read through this thread, and can relate to a lot of it.<BR> Lor, I think it is great for you that your husband is wanting you back. That must be a tremendous feeling, especially after what he put you through for so long. I wish my wife would pursue me or try to woo me back. I forgot how it feels to have my wife show any interest in me. I am starting to think that it is sad that she knows whenever her affair fizzles out (if it ever does), I will be waiting for her with open arms. In the mean time, I keep holding onto a shred of hope that this, in fact, will happen one day. This really sucks.<BR> Hey Missy .... I can see dragantraces point in that you must decide if you want to continue your relationship with your husband. If you start getting the friendlies with another man (whether it is just platonic or not), you may definatley lose all you chances of ever getting back with your husband. This, of course, differs for every situation (only you really know what your h is like), but, if he knows that you are spending time with another M, he may either get jealous and realize what he is missing, or he may take it as another reason to never come back. Also, you gotta be fair to your new friend. He may not want things to be so platonic .. which may complicate things if your H does comes back. But, I do know what you are going through. I am facing the very same dilemma. I have met some very wonderful women over the last few weeks (I do have a lot of free time on my hands now !!), some of these women are asking to go out (as friends, or whatever). Do I, for once, get some of my own satisfaction?? After months of total rejection, a little female companionship (and affection) would be a nice change. After all, my wife is getting more than enough (from both me, and the OM). Maybe I am just being bitter an venting ...... I don't make a whole lot of sense these days.<BR> Anyhow, good luck in your decisions. My thoughts are with all of you.<BR>Boozy

I read all this and think...<P>Your reasoning and thinking is kinda the justification my wife gave me for her affair. I don't/didn't mean for it<P>"But, I do not miss him that much anymore. In fact, I find myself thinking about this other man I met more than my h. I look forward to talking to this other person"<P>What does that say to you? Are you still married? You wanting your marriage to work?<P>"I think h has been so rotten to me that he has totally emptied all the love deposits he had in his bank with me. "<P>It's always this way...lets state the bad times and never the good ones. He obviously wasn't totally to blame for the state of the marriage BEFORE the affair.<P>"I think I am ready to give up the fight." <BR>Of course you are, you are subconsciously replacing him. <P>You are cutting him away from those things he loves.. you stated the baseball games, you are encouraging others to exclude him. This doesn't sound like decent behavior to me for plan 'b' it sounds like you are driving him to her.<P>Where is he to go if he is thinking of changing his mind and act? He can't go anywhere, he's cast out, his children are there but he can't include them in his life (really). How the heck are you thinking he might be able to come back?<P>I like Lostva's Plan 'A'ing, it helped me with my Wife and her affair. We are working on it. <P>Your post's really do sound like you are having an affair and trying to justify it. Sorry.<P>Anyway, those who know my past know I made some mistakes... Lostva was always right. She really was my angel.<P>My 2 cents<P>J

You know, it surprised me that there was that much flaming going on earlier. My thoughts...<P>Don't complain about harley principles here on the board. If you aren't here to support your marriage you are in the wrong place. You want someone to back you no matter what you are in the wrong place.<P>But if you are confused and unsure you are in the right place. There is support like you couldn't believe. But you must read the info and even more so... live it. How can it work if you don't live it? If you want your marriage to work, here we are.<P>Harley's principles are not guarenteed but they do give you a better than average chance of getting your marriage on track or coming out of it knowing you did your best and knowing you can survive.<P>What do you want... I don't like those that sit on the fence personally. Saying that you must have all the info to make a decision is just another way of delaying. A wise person told me $hit or get off the pot. Make a decision, its the easy part... following it through is the hard part.<P>I should post this as a separate message line.<P>Flame on <BR>J

F A:Laugh-ed Out Loud. Sorry 'bout that.<P>NoMas: For the first time I thought what you wrote was beautiful. I enjoyed that alot. You really are minister, aren't you?!<P>F A and Missy and whoever: Just wanted to say that it is virually impossible for me to have an opposite sex friend. Present company excluded. But to that list I'd also like to add no opposite sex masseuse! I kid you not, this morning I just came from one (my back was screwed up from work) and I'm almost positive I almost had an EA!!!<P>God help me! My massage therapist says he's in love with me!<P>Missy--what the hell did you start here?!<P>I was NOT going to divulge that--I'm just a spewing volcano. But if not to you guys, who?<P>

Wait a second Simply J. I do not agree at all with what you wrote. Please go back and read all my other posts. <P>I am not encouraging others to exclude my husband and I have always stated that he was a wonderful husband. I have also stated that I would take the blame for my part in his affair gladly if I knew what that was. I have honestly searched my heart and soul to figure this out. My h can't even tell me what went wrong. In fact, he says nothing went wrong he just fell in love with someone else. <P>I do not pretend to be a saint. But I do feel I am a good decent person and a very thoughful person. I would never dream of cheating on my spouse. I have been seperated now for 7 months all of which I have tried to follow the Harley principals. <P>My h is the one who has changed so much. I can not see into the future and predict the outcome of this affair. Until then what am I suppose to do? Just sit back and let him walk all over me. Let him treat me mean. Why should I? When you get treated this way let me tell you it does not feel good. <P>I do not keep him away from the baseball games. He chooses to stay far away from all the fans because he is embarrassed to see people. Everyone knows what he did. He was a very popular person in our community and let me tell you, he is no longer thought of as a nice person. Again I ask you is that my fault?????????????? I say no way to that...People form their own opinions of other peoples actions not me.<P>You really hit a nerve with me tonight simply J. <P>I was nothing but a wonderful wife for 12 years and a wonderful friend to him for a total of 19years. He will be the first to tell you that. I resent the fact that you say what I am doing is like having an affair myself. You could not be futher from the truth. <P>I am NOT involoved with this OM. I do enjoy his company and we get along great. That does not mean that I am having an affair.<P>What my h did was have a full blown affair and that my friend is wrong. I am not a bad person and if I didn;t want my marraige to work, do you think I would be spending all this time on MB. Do you think I would go out and buy all these books for the fun of it? DO you think I would get up at 6 am to spend an hour phone counseling with Steve Harley and paying good money for it if I didn't want my marriage to work???<P>I have always wanted my marriage to work. I want my family life back BUT I simply said that time is working against me. The more time goes by the less love I feel toward my h. The more people I meet that make me feel good the more I realize that there is so much in life to offer and perhaps I would be better off without my h. <P>Thats all I was saying when I started this thread. <P>Perhaps I am coming to the realization that my h simply does not deserve me....<P>

Dear J, you are being unfair. That missy loosk forward to talking to the other man shows that she is alive and going to make it. And why is missy obligated to carry a torch for the man who left her high and dry? Hubby has behaved badly. He is not trying to fill her love bank, and though I dont' have time ot read all the posts all of the time I admit I may have missed a positive post. Like maybe he sent a nice card or did something thoughtful? Doubtful. He's still blinded by the OW><P>"But, I do not miss him that much anymore. In fact, I find myself thinking about this other man I met more than my h. I look forward to talking to this other person"<P>"I think h has been so rotten to me that he has totally emptied all the love deposits he had in his bank with me. "<P>It's always this way...lets state the bad times and never the good ones. He obviously wasn't totally to blame for the state of the marriage BEFORE the affair.<P>Er, J, for 7 months the guy has been in the red and still making withdrawals. In some states that can earn you a term in prison ("And you don't go writin' hot checks down in Mississippi, And there ain't no good chain gang." Courtesy and acknowledgement to Johnny Cash.)<P>"I think I am ready to give up the fight." <BR>Of course you are, you are subconsciously replacing him. <P>Not fair. We all get tired of doing all the work in Plan A. He's openly flaunting another woman, has rubbed the B**** in his daughter's faces, how cruel can anyone be? <P>"You are cutting him away from those things he loves.. you stated the baseball games, you are encouraging others to exclude him. This doesn't sound like decent behavior to me for plan 'b' it sounds like you are driving him to her."<P>Yo, wake up, come here because I wanna hit you upside da head J. This man wanted to bring the OW to the baseball games if I remember right. Missy's friends and neighbors are decent people with enough conviction to stand by the innocent party and support her. What *** they would be to welcome the wayward spouse and make HIM the welcomed party on the bleachers in their midst. That would be supporting evil. My bet is that if he returns he will be welcomed into the fold once again, having gotten himself on the right track and making amends to his family.<P>"Where is he to go if he is thinking of changing his mind and act? He can't go anywhere, he's cast out, his children are there but he can't include them in his life (really). How the heck are you thinking he might be able to come back?" <P>J, he is cast out from the society of good people, people who are tempted to stray and don't because it would be wrong, or who are disgusted by those who betray and abandon their families. He can't include his children in his life? Sure he can, he can arrange visits away from the slut he's shtupping (can I use that word on the internet?) Maybe he could visit them at the mother's home. <BR>If he wants to come back he might have to act like a man and own his behavior and work to repair things.<P>"If that suggestion is ridiculous, sorry missy, I haven't probably got your whole history straight. " <P>The only thing you had right, J, is that it takes two people to mess up a marriage, they both contribute to the mess. And I'll take credit or blame for my own share, probably the biggest portion.<P>(My two bits.)<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited July 22, 2000).]

missy,<BR>I'm with you. Although I don't have anybody in mind right now and I'm not divorced but if there is an opportunity I will go for it. Like you feel I think my H doesn't deserve me right now. He's not mean to me anymore but he doesn't want to make a decision and right now he says he loves me and OW and keeps seeing both of us.<BR>Before I thought even if he's having an affair while I was married I wouldn't try to see anyone, but I really think he should be the one to file divorce.. He always ran away from problems and at the end someone else solved problems for him. I even packed his stuff for him when he moved out(because he didn't do it and it was annoying his stuff was everywhere!). So at least he can do this(filing divorce)taking his responsibility.<BR>After the D-day if he wanted to work on our marriage I was happy to do so, I even told him that, but because he felt he was missing a good opportunity he didn't want to do it. He still holds his final answer and who knows how long it will take to decide. And during this period I just have to be loyal to him?? Hmmmmmm I don't think so.....<P>Meg<BR>

OK, let's put it this way:<P>What if the reason my husband turned to another woman was because I was a ***** on wheels for 5 years? Because I treated him badly, didn't meet his emotional needs and made withdrawals from his love bank?<P>Over and over, I am told, when I tell people that I was MEAN to him sometimes, people say "But, even if that's true, that doesn't justify him having an affair! He should have told you he was unhappy! He should have divorced you FIRST!"<P>WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE?<P>Meg, you are separated from your husband, I take it, and you are feeling like he has treated you badly, he is being a [censored] (sorry), he is not even acknowledging you have emotional needs and has withdrawn just about everything he ever deposited from your love bank.<P>You feel that you deserve some happiness. You know what, my husband believed he deserved some happiness, too. But most people here would condemn him as an infidel.<P>It is the SAME fog our spouses walked into - the same justifications, the same excuses, the same "yeah, but's" The only difference is that our spouses did us wrong first.<P>Do two wrongs make a right? Nope. Doesn't matter if you want to quote scripture or just want to be realistic.<P>Are you married? Do you want to see other men? Then get a divorce first.<P>It is the way THEY should have done it - the same applies to US.<P><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I can see clearly now,<BR>the rain is gone ...

Hi Missy -<P>I want to start off with giving you some very BIG HUGS cuz you need them....we all care about YOU and with all the back and forth here that may not have come through consistantly to you.....<P>All that I am going to say you probably won't like, but please KNOW that I truly say it with your best interests at heart. I don't want to see you in such pain anymore, I don't want you to create more pain on top of what you already have.....<P>What I do want you to do is to experience as much "good" out of this hell as you can. So I am going to point out some things that I believe you may not be able to see clearly because you can't emotionally "step back" yet and see the whole picture. OK?<P>Let me begin with some basic facts and questions for you to think on....<P>Your H is having an affair. He has seemed to convey to you that it was not things with you - but some sexual excitement/self image things with himself that led to this. You feel that it is primarily the adoration and sexual experiences that have led him and kept him attached to this woman. Is that correct? <P>OK...say those are the facts of it....<BR>What was life like at home leading up to this? Was he in a rut..with work....with you....with life in general? Did anything excite him? Make him act like he felt "alive"? Are there things that could have been different about your recreational time together? Did you put the kids before him? Did he (or you) put work, bills, etc. before anthing else?<P>ANYTHING that you could think of?<P>It all could boil down to midlife crisis, some need for a greater purpose for HIMSELF than what he was experiencing. Who knows.<P>I do know one thing......HE IS NOT ALONE in feeling what he did/does and is not alone (unfortunately) in his actions.<P>Everyone here is dealing with the same thing in one form or another (betrayer or betrayed). That tells me something very important that leads to the hurt being lessened......he is not doing it TO YOU....Do you understand that Missy?<P>HE IS NEEDING something and has been pulled by that need into a situation that serves it. Just like a drug, hence the often analogied "addiction" that you see talked about. <P>YOU do not enter into this addiction, in his mind it is completely separate from you and the kids. <P>This is very important to understand Missy because when you do you will be able to lessen the pain and hurt and realize that he is not being mean to YOU, but is simply caught up in an addiction that he probably doesn't even know he has. <P>You are angry.....you are hurt...you are confused and you just want to feel good!!<P>Betcha he said those same things to himself......<P>On your side....he is the one to cause these feelings for you.<P>On his side...."something" caused these same feelings for him.....we don't know for sure what. BUT believe me, something did.<P>So he goes and finds something that makes him FEEL GOOD!!!!(or it finds him)<BR>And look what happened.......<P>Now you say that you like having this guy from group around cuz "he makes you feel good".......do you see the similarities? <P>You say it is not the same....sorry, but it is the same - just H did it first.<P>You believe that this man has the morals and values that are equivalent to yours. Then I must ask you....what is this divorced man doing with a married woman?<BR>Being divorced for 3 (?) years, in a group to cope with it and yet he doesn't know better than to "make you feel good"? He doesn't know the vulnerabilities that you have and will show up in the future? What does that say?<P>I know and agree that you should be able to feel good.....we all should. But what we sometimes fail to realize is that it is OURSELVES who have to make our own good feelings about our lives!!<P>A man is not what you need to make you feel good......You need to feel good with YOURSELF....by YOURSELF....before any other person enters the picture.<P>What is the definition of an emotional affair Missy? Is it not when another person makes you "feel good"?<P>I would also like to raise the subject of the children....what example is this showing them? Dad runs off with a woman......Mom is hurt, etc....than Mom and Dad don't talk about anything or even sit together anymore and now some man is around Mom.....<P>AND THEY ARE STILL MARRIED!!!!!<P>Do they see problem solving? Do they see any devotion? Do they see any love?<BR>What do they see? What are they thinking of all this? What is the feedback THEY are getting from others in the community? Do they learn that you can do anything you should just "leave" and/or give up when you get angry or hurt?<P>I am just saying these to help you think things through Mis....not to judge...not to accuse....not for any reason other than to help you "step back" and look at the effects and truths around you. <P>I care about you......<P>From the title of this thread, I believe that you haven't really grasped the MB material.....<P>I know that you said that you worked very hard on them in the past and I would like you to tell us EXACTLY how you did that.....what you did, for how long, etc. Perhaps there are things that we can help you to add to what you have done already.......that's what we are here for!!!!<P>It is my belief that you have not been able to get past the focus of what this is doing to YOU and that is why you are still is such pain......that is also why you are very reactionary at times. <P>What Simply J said about thinking of mostly the bad is absolutely correct!!<BR>You are definitely thinking of the bad present and have not let the previous 18+ years influence your demeanor. I say that because there is no way that someone can be ready to "give up' or "move on" from another person who has been part of them for so long. How does someone do that who is not "reacting" to what they are receiving at the moment. You are mirroring his behavior instead of truly thinking and acting for what you really want.<P>Example....you say you want your marriage. How is not speaking with your husband the behavior of a wife? Before you say - well he is doing it to me, let me say "SO WHAT?" That's for him to figure out......How does that make you any better than he is being?<P>Since he is following this need of his right now, how is your following your "need" bringing about any steps to addressing your goal of togetherness in marriage? If that is what you want, then you act like it right? <P>It doesn't depend on him acting like it.<BR>It starts with the person who is clear about wanting it.....Then, hopefully, that attitude will spill forth to the unclear eyes of the one addicted. Have you behaved like you want your marriage Missy? Or have you been so mired in the anger, hurt and shame of it that you just project the "victim" side?<P>Simply J was correct about something else....you have displayed a discouraging attitude with people regarding your H.....Remember the comment of "what a Jerk" to another? How about what you have mentioned about what people are saying....how did you participate in those conversations?<P>These types of comments, etc. are coming from a hurt pride and embarassed side of you......certainly not from a loving wife of so many years. Where is the compassion of your partner? Where is the worry about HIS mental health? Do you display that? Or is it just about your hurt, etc.<P>Where also is the respect that a wife shows for her husband? Or even that a compassionate person shows for an addict? <P>I know that you are a good woman....I believe that this is the most difficult thing that you have ever faced and it has caused you to misplace your belief in what you knew was real for all your years with your husband.<P>Right now H is not there....something has taken over his brain......<P>Does this mean that he is not underneath this crap somewhere within? Of course he is!!!!<P>Does a few months, a year or even two of going through this crisis erase all the good years? I don't see how you can say that he doesn't deserve you....he did before!!!<P>He is in an "altered state" if you will, is the real H not worth the wait and effort? If not - you must discover why that is? Was there a partnership or just a "as long as things are good" theme to your marriage?<P>God, I must have written a book, sorry Missy!!! I want so much for you to understand all the dynamics at work here. You don't seem the selfish type to me and when you make such comment as "He doesn't deserve me" etc. I feel your pride and anger coming through. ANY choiced made from those emotions will be bad ones and I don't want to see you go through that.<P>Again, I would like to help more...if you give us the details of what you've done so far with the MB stuff....we will pitch in and think of things to contribute if we can.....<P>I hope this can help you with some sorting out of your thoughts....<P>More BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR> <P>

Terri,<BR>Thanks for your post. I know that in my head I will be doing the same thing my H did if I chose to see someone. I know I should file divorce if I want to see someone.<P>I strongly feel he should do that.. to take responsibility for what he did and what he's doing right now. When I asked him about it, he said, in his head divorcing is the right thing to do but because he still has feelings for me it's hard.. also he feels like being a failure is he gets divorce.<BR>So now he's not a failure because he's not divorced and he's having an affair... so for me he's a failure(or loser) anyway.<P>I'm still open to a relationship with someone else.. if I don't see anyone that's because I don't want to be seen like my H(and because nobody is interested ).<P>One thing it's different between my H and me when I see someone.. He had me but he decided to have an affair and he lied and lied and lied. I don't have my H and I will tell him the truth.<P>Meg<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simply J:<BR><B><BR>Don't complain about harley principles here on the board. If you aren't here to support your marriage you are in the wrong place. You want someone to back you no matter what you are in the wrong place</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Simply J, with all due respect you seem to do a lot of "interpreting" or "reading between the lines" of posts that you don't agree with. What you have just done to the posts by missy9 is exactly what you have done to me in the past. It seems that if your view is different from whatever has been posted, you add words that aren't there or meanings that didn't exist to create further distance between your view and theirs in order to shoot it down, and that's wrong. When reading your responses to missy, I was wondering what I had missed, did he read something that I didn't? Even in your above quote, you stretch it a bit don't you? I have gone back over this entire thread and I don't see anyone comlaining about Harley's principles, I see people, including myself, stating that there is belief in Harley's principles, much of which is simply good ol' fashioned "common sense", but that different people have different circumstances along with different limits of what we can or can not tolerate. I also have seen no one not supporting marriage or wanting someone to back them no matter what, but I will tell you what I have seen..............<P>I have seen those that have been betrayed, and I too have been betrayed, take the pain of being betrayed to a level of self-rightousness and indignation that has totally been unbelievable. Being betrayed and learning principles here on this board does not mean that all of a sudden one knows everything(there are those that have suddenly earned Phd's, become clergy, moral police, psychologist, etc.), or can't be wrong, or have the right to put one's own values on to others, and it sure as hell does not give one the right to tell someone that they are in the wrong place, to leave this site, or change the channel, all of which has been stated on this thread. <P>I will tell you what else I have seen, I have seen those that have been the most rigid, the most unbending in following the Harley principles have the least amount of success on this board, they are also the ones that seem to do most of the "preaching" on this board. Those that have followed the principles, but have tailored them to fit their own situations seem to be having more success, is that a coincidence, or have I been the only one that has noticed that?<P>Missy is a grown woman, she came here for advice and support, and she got it, probably more than she anticipated, but I'm sure she didn't expect to get hit upside the head as many times she has because she had a different view then some, and that's what's so sad...........different views are not allowed at MB? I guess the only people that should be allowed here is the group of people that should call themselves the Harley Disciple Posse <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited July 22, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>But to that list I'd also like to add no opposite sex masseuse! I kid you not, this morning I just came from one (my back was screwed up from work) and I'm almost positive I almost had an EA!!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ROFLMAO!!!!!<P>Leilana, thank you for being on this site, especially this thread, while we may disagree on this particular topic, we can at least disagree without being disagreeable.<BR>With your personality, a successful recovery and rebuilding of your marriage is right around the corner. <P>

F A<P>So happy my delirium has you ROFL but I'm serious!!<P>I came *this* close to having an affair!! <P>He said the most wonderful things to me--I was swept off my feet--the first time I went to him a few months ago my H was having an affair but I didn't know that yet--yet was very depressed. This guy didn't know I was married but said he couldn't stop thinking about me and found out I was married when he tried looking me up in the phone book. <P>He was VERY professional during the massage but kept forgetting what he was supposed to do next--he felt "off balance". That's when I asked him why and all this came out. <P>He said I was a "thousand year woman"--when I asked what he meant he said a woman like me comes around only once in a thousand years----big "sigh"!!<P>Said he wants to take genetics so he can clone me! I know--what a line--but I love it!<P>The spa business is going under and said he will be working from home. I said I don't think I'll be seeing him at home. He said he has always had integrity but a few minutes later said, I was right, it probably wouldn't be a good idea.<P>Said I'm perfect in every way--I'm the archetype (?) woman and is glad I came along at least so he know what he's been looking for all his life.<P>God only knows how but I just laughed and joked and thanked him--took his feelings seriously but treated him like a friend, but always let him know I was married and could never pursue this. THEN I gave him a $20.00 tip!!<P>I went directly home and when my H got off of work I attacked him!! <P>Somebody talk me down!! Did I have an EA? The guy gave me beautiful memories that really boosts my ego up and makes me smile. But I was lying there naked on his table with his hands on me and enjoying everything he was saying to me! I felt like smoking a cigarette after! <P>No, I don't feel I can tell my H this--he would hunt him down and choke him with his little spa towel.

I'm sorry I didn't take you seriously, but the way you worded it, I could have sworn you were saying it "tongue in cheek" <P>I would say that this IS definitely different than having an opposite sex friend, this guy was obviously coming on to you, <B>and strong</B>. I don't consider what happened an EA, as long as you don't follow up on it. I also don't think what you felt was abnormal, I think most people would feel good if their ego took a <B>good stroking</B> like yours did, just make sure it ends where it did, <B>no follow ups</B> and I think you will be fine.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I felt like smoking a cigarette after!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>YOU ARE SOMETHING ELSE!!</B> <P>

Yes I am, I am the "thousand year woman". <P>Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking to be about this. I have been bursting. <P>I have a horrible time saying serious things in a serious manner. Humor is the way I deal with everything. Have always talked tongue in cheek. I chose "Leilana" as my user name because it's the only one I could coherently pronounce. <P>Anyway--I'm half in love with this guy but am coming to terms. I won't see him again (but, ooh, he's THE BEST masseuse in the world!!) He says he's in love with me, that he feels a connection to me he's never felt with anyone before but I know he doesn't know all my facets--it's that fantasy/fog thing again. It's so wonderful to be thought of as a goddess, tho! <P>But my H has seen me with menstrual cramps, razor stubble and morning breath and still loves me. That's true love!<P>I want this to be an example to others who are tempted--God, was I tempted!! I was being massaged by a virile, sensitive, good looking man on a table with sensual music and candles and romantic lighting, for God's sake. And yet I somehow managed to walk away. A little wobbly, mind you, but I did it. Thank you, God! <P>I was vulnerable and should never have put myself in that predicament. I just didn't think it would be a problem. Stupid, stupid, stupid!!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited July 23, 2000).]

I guess I don't agree with anyone here....Life is way to short to be sitting around waiting! It pretty much sounds to me like H is content where he is. <BR>Maybe if you didn't appear so needy in his eyes, you would be more appealing.<BR>But in spite of this type of thinking, a little well garded enjoyment wouldn't hurt you. Life does go on, and I am probably one of the few who feel like waiting in the back ground doesn't always work. I would love to know the real stats on people that Have HAPPY marriages after all of this.