Married 16 years to hs sweetheart, two teenage children, cyclical relationship with wife (fight over and over about the same things), empty job, extremely unhappy at work. Met the OW, who was trying to salvage her own bad marriage. Extremely strong relationship developed, first via email, then phone calls, then physical, then spiritual bonding, then planning a new life together. Informed wife and children of affair, moved out of house, remained separated for two months. Wife and children freaking out, i respond by trying to be there for them, and end up reconciling with wife and moving back in. I go down and end the affair (out of state). Have had no contact with OW in over two months. Am going through what appears to be extreme withdrawal, to the point where i'm vomiting on the way home from work. I miss the OW, her love, her son, the plans and everything. At the same time, going through counseling with my wife. I am committed to making our marriage work. The thought of divorce is unacceptable to me now, yet what do i do with these feelings for the OW (even hate calling her that)? If I speak of this to my wife (although she is aware that i had these feelings for this woman), she freaks out, and it feeds her feelings of inadequacy and panic. I know i can never go back to OW, but when does this pain end? In surfing through the site, Dr. Harley mentions that very few affairs ever end in the two affairees getting married, but some do. How and when does it become clear that the relationship wasn't an addiction, but a real relationship? I know this is a 'welcome to real life' type of unanswerable question, but how can i love my wife and children and also feel a love so so strongly for someone else? How can i think i can be a good husband and father to anyone else when i'd be walking out on my own family? Or am i just an emotional crack addict?

If you are still so heavily bound after 2 months, I would guess you are spending a lot of time yearning, thinking about and reliving the OW.<P>If you want your marriage and are committed you have to break this habit. One thing that seems simplistic, but helps, is redirecting your thoughts. When she comes into your mind, block her and replace her with your wife, the faces of your children and the plans you are making for all of you. You can't have both relationships in real life, you have chosen one. If you are vomiting, you are making yourself ill. You may have been just as tormented about your wife if you had chosen the OW.<P>You might want to have a session or 2 alone with your counselor. In marriage counseling with infidelity sometimes the issues of the 2 spouses are so different that one on one can be very beneficial, I know it helped both me and my husband. The counselor gave me the re-direction advice.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Thanks, but the redirection idea is a constant already; the minute i think of her, my wife and children are immediately in my mind's eye; i think if this wasn't happening all the time, i'd be gone and divorced already. I guess what i'm struggling with is reducing her to an OW, or just plain sin, like alcohol or drug abuse. It's sick to say, but i wish it had just been about sex. Constantly wondering and anguishing over someone else, her life, her son, her well-being; i know God will take better care of her than i ever could dream, but then why did we find each other to begin with? No matter where i turn, there she is. It never ends. And i can't even keep from hurting my wife, because she can sense it. I feel like a hamster on a wheel. <P>Thanks for the verse, but even the bible brings her to me. Can you believe we read and prayed together? Does everyone who cheats on their spouses sit and pray together? What does God make of that? I've got one pastor/friend who went through sort of the same thing, and the only thing he can tell me is that i'm in for one long, painful fading process.<P>Thanks for listening.<BR>

Welcome Forest:<P>I never had an affair and am the betrayed wife, but I can see your torment in your post. <P>Like a lot of life's tougher problems, you'll find no simple answers here...maybe even won't like the advise you're given at times...but you will get the gift of experience...a whole lot of people who have been on both sides of this.<BR>As just being able to see that the torment has an end...be it many months down the road...and that your feelings are common and reasonable. <P>So, welcome again, and I'll keep your post at the top until you get some more help from those who are suffering similar problems.<P>Buffy<BR>

Just for the record: "NO...I did not post this thread under a new alias.!!"<P>But man....how in the world can people go through the exact same things...and feel the same things. <P>Forrest...There are no easy answers to your questions. Your pastor/friend is right...hold on for a long and painfully slow process. I am right there with you. I mean...your post made the hair on my neck stand up. Welcome to the club.<P>***sigh****

Well Forest I'm sending you back to the top for more help...come on folks, I know there are others dealing with withdrawal besides Nomas. Give this fella some help before he loses it all.<P>By the way...you and Nomas do have a lot in common...he's been working though the same problem...you might review some of his posts and see if you can find any help.<P>Sorry I so late getting back, but at least you'll be on top tomorrow.<P>Buffy<P>

Thanks, Buffy, thanks, NoMas. It's true, true misery loves true company. I never thought i was the only one, but man, for someone who's been emotionally introverted his whole life, dealing with this is like swallowing shards of glass every day. I'm just going through the motions at home; yesterday, started getting sick on the way home from work, so i stopped and bought my wife flowers...while i'm crying like a baby over OW (God, i hate that term). Sat at dinner later on with my whole family, and all i can think about is her, her family, where she might be, how her son is doing, what's going on with her marriage, is her husband beating her... and my wife just looks across at me and knows. I've been counseled that your beliefs and actions will ultimately change your feelings and emotions, but i'd much rather have someone rip the flesh off me. This really really really hurts. Sin. What a concept. Gee, God isn't kidding around, is he?<P>

I know it really, really hurts. I watched my H go thru withdrawal...he couldn't stop crying at work, couldn't keep his mind off of her...had awful chest pains, etc...it was awful. It was also the textbook description of what happend when an addictive relationship ends...some days, knowing that was hopeful, other days hard to believe. He finally got involved in therapy to help with the depression...and we are both very much in-love with each other again.<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi

Thanks Kathi. It must take a tremendous amount of something for you to be able to share about something like that. I wonder if my wife will ever get over the fact that i could feel this way about someone, anyone else.<P><p>[This message has been edited by forest (edited August 04, 2000).]

forest, I know that there were times I wondered if I would ever be able to get over the fact that he had felt like that about someone else. And, times I wondered if I would ever feel secure in his love for me again (and, still times that I feel shaky).<P>What helped us was understanding what the other was going through. If your wife is open to it, there are some good books that migth help her...<P>Surviving an Affair (Harley)<BR>Torn Asunder (Carder ?)<P>If the two of you can support each other and keep working together, you really will end up in a better marraige than before. It is truly hard, but worthwhile.<P>

Forest...<P>Again, I shake my head in amazement. You could be writing some of my former post. I too, hate that term "OW" They are not some predators who are evil monsters lurking in the dark. And IF they are...then we are certainly "OM" as well. I too...have gone through all the motions of doing what I need to do here at home...with my wife. Yet, my heart and mind are consumed with thoughts of my friend.<BR>Are you sure you have had ZERO contact now for two months? That is not very encouraging for me to think the battle has not died down at all for you.<BR>I did not actually move out or even 'consuate' the relationship...as it has been primarily a long-distance EA. But nevertheless...the heart is pretty worn out right now with pain.<BR>I have said here before, the decent down into this valley was much easier than the climb out.<BR>Have you and your wife been to any counseling? And has the "OW-your friend" made any effort to contact you?<BR>You certainly are echoing many of the cries I have spilled out here on these boards. It is truly amazing to me.

Nomas: great name, that's where i feel like i'm at everyday. Yes, wife and i have been going to counseling for over three-four months, though obviously the first two months were basically useless since i was still in contact and occasionally seeing 'A' (i refuse to use OW any more). Have not had ANY contact with her since May 17. Almost 3 months now. No calls, no emails, no letters, not even the pager messages we used to send back and forth. I am starting to bs myself into thinking if i could just check on her, talk to her mom, one of her brothers or sisters, just to find out that she's ok, without her even knowing, maybe the pain would lessen, but i know that's just a slippery slope of lies and i'd be back with her in no time. And i won't lie to my wife again, which i would have to, in order to do anything like that. I'm starting to hate myself, my choices, my thoughts, the stupidity of all of this. What's worth going through this day after day? I wonder what fabulous impact my existence is now having on my kids, let alone the damage that my wife, i'm pretty sure, is never going to get over.<p>[This message has been edited by forest (edited August 04, 2000).]

Well...I must applaud your effort and success so far....you have been in the no-contact thing a bit longer than me. It would be pretty frustrating to end up back at square one. <P>My user name comes from what Roberto Duran told Sugar Ray Lenoard after their boxing match where he got beat proclaiming there would be "no more"(nomas) rematch. I think it was Lenoard...might have been Hearns...anyway...You think of all the great fights and matches that have been witnessed over the years. None of those compare to the match that takes place daily between my heart and my head. It is non-stop...relentless...brutal at times.<P>All the logic and reason in the world seems to make so little impact. The emotional pull is the strongest thing I have ever encountered. Again...I salute you in your resolve. All the "experts" here say that with each passing day...you move closer and closer to victory. <P>Sometimes....I feel like I am in the middle of a large ocean...swimming tiredly...with no land in sight...and my arms and legs feel like bars of steel....and I just want to stop trying....let out a breath...and sink to the bottom.<P>But so far, I have not taken that route. I just wonder how long I can make a go at this.<P>How is your wife responding to you these days? I'd love to read your profile or 'story' if you can point me in the direction of it? Otherwise...how about filling me in? Hang in there forest...your bound to see the light of day again...and come out of the dark thicket!<P>I just went back and reread your post...guess you pretty well told your story in a condensed form at the top of this thread. How did "A" handle breaking off the relationship when you went back to your wife?<BR>NoMas....<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited August 04, 2000).]

Forest, what was real about the "relationship" - feelings? What real problems did you solve? Was it more like real life where you have good and bad moments or was it more like a hs romance?<P>Your comments about getting sick traveling home certainly sound like addiction..... aka romantic affair.<P>How do YOU define relationship? Defining your terms might help you gain perspective.<P>And for Pete's sake don't get hooked up with Nomas if you really want help OUT of withdrawal. He is a hail fellow well met but is a textbook case of someone wallowing in selfpity. He verbalizes well, but is convincing only to himself and otherrs who choose to remain in the fog of withdrawal. <BR>Nomas has been spinning wheels for months.

It was real life; i mean cmon, she's 33, i'm 38, both with spouses and kids of our own, and i'm quite positive i'm past the 'i need a younger woman to help me be me' crap. Before i met her, i thought more about fresh produce then looking for ANYTHING outside my marriage. And it wasn't the hs, starry eyes, gee aint you everything i've ever wanted type of relationship. We talked, we empathized each other's situations, we shared our values, our lives, our experiences, nothing terribly incredible. The only strange thing was the connectedness, the knowing what each other was going to say w/o saying it. It was scary after awhile. We never really were solving each other's problems, we just found out we both cared for each other to an incredible degree. It's hard to relegate her to 'addictive behaviour syndrome' or 'mid-life crisis'. We both realized and verbalized that what was making either of us unhappy in our own marriages would still be there because the problems were in us, and being with each other helped, but didn't necessarily make anything go away. There were no magic words, no tremendous revelations, it just was true, real. We had many times when we'd disagree, get more than slightly ticked at each other and the situations we were in, but we honestly loved each other. I can't explain it any better than that. 'A' still wanted to be friends, was sure that that could still be, but in the end, she admitted that it wouldn't work either. I actually went down and ended it face to face. Which my wife agreed to, but still obsesses about. We didn't have the 'one last time' closeness, just talked, cried, prayed, i apologized endlessly and then left. 'A' had always maintained, from the beginning, that i wouldn't be able to leave my wife, my kids. And i always told her she was wrong, that we would be together in the end, somehow. And just when she starts to believe me, i end up going back and ending it between us. Rather pathetic and corny, huh? <BR>And take it easy on NoMas, you have to love a guy who can sum up what someone else is feeling in a login name. Spinning wheels is what i just might end up doing myself for the<BR>next couple of years of life...<BR>

Guys, I will tell you that my H and the person he'd fallen for avoided each other for months before he started coming "out of it".<P> Let's see, the break-off was in mid October. He was, basically in hell for a while (til mid-Jan) before he finally told me why...and then we did work together to support each other, which at least brought us a little closer. By mid-Feb he was still having chest pains, crying bouts and was thinking this would never get better and that maybe he should just quit. We made attempts at couples counseling, but he was not really at the point for that yet. At the end of March, he began to see a therapist for depression, and things began to turn around. I'm not sure how much of it was the therapy, and how much was that it was just time for it to get better...but I do think seeing the therapist helped.<P>It isn't easy or quick--I'd really like to tell you it is, but that would be a big ole lie. But, looking back 6-7 months is worth getting your life and your marriage straightened out. And, we are both feeling incredibly glad to be on this side of that period and together.<P>Kathi<P>

Hi Wesse...<P>Thanks for the vote of confidence!!<P>Maybe I should sub-title my login name as "leper"...it might help you steer folks away from me.<P>Forest...show me how to get out of this place...and I'll follow. We are in the rebuilding stages here at home. I took the advice of some folks here and told my wife everything. It has been a rocky road. Maybe I can learn a few things from you. <BR>Just let me know if you are also going to throw stones so I can duck in time. :-)

Forest, Thank you so much for sharing. I am sorry that I do not have any advice for you but I am more able to understand what my husband is going through. He wants me to be patient and give him time to get over his confusion but it is so hard for me. I tended to think that things were either black or white before your post. Either he wanted to be with me or with her. I guess things are never really simple. Thanks again. I will try to not force my H to choose but how long can I wait? You chose and are still conflicted. I do not wish that pain on him.

a side note to wesse,<P>You know, we are all trying here...betrayed and betrayers alike. Do you posess the magic number of days, weeks, months it will take to make any of us feel better? I think not.<P>So wesse, don't put your judgements on others here on these boards. We all make progress at our own speed, and while I am not a betrayer, it does help me to get a sense of what my H is going through when they post honestly and openly about their feelings. <P>allison

Forest, Thank you for being so open and honest. I know that I can not help you or offer advice but thank you for helping me. Now I can try to understand what my husband is feeling. I do not understand the confusion he is feeling or his difficulty in making a decision. To my way of thinking it would be simple either me or her. I guess nothing is simple. I will try not to force him to make a decision because you made a decision and are still conflicted. I do not want him to hurt like that. I just want things to be over so we can repair the damage and move on. Thanks again.