<BR>I find myself so angry that another woman could stoop so low as to steal another woman's husband. What kind of person would do this? How could she have any respect for herself? How could my husband want to be with a woman who would do that to a family??? 2 young children who love their mommy and daddy?? HOW COULD SHE??? <BR>I confronted the OW in my sickening scenario early on when I listened to her first of many sexy voice mail messages to my husband's cell phone. Can you believe that she told me that I should get my self confidence in check!! She said that she didn't "Like" my husband in that way. She said that they had a "bond" because of the work they do and that was all. Can you believe that I actually felt foolish after I hung up the phone with her? I found out months later when going over his cell bill that he had actually "briefed" her on what topic I was needing to discuss before she even spoke to me. I should have realized her answers and explainations were canned, but I wanted so badly to beleive her. It sickens me to think that they were laughing at me the whole time.<BR>Now I know that marriages go bad somewhere and that is why our partners turn to another woman...it is no excuse, it is cowardly and should be a crime. But for another woman to lower herself into the position of "mistress" knowing that a man has a wife and family...my blood is boiling.<BR>How could anyone allow themselves to be a dirty little secret? TO sneak around, to meet up and then eventually be left while the man goes home to play daddy and hubby....how does one do that???<BR>Do the husbands tell their mistresses that they are no longer having relations with their wives? Are the husbands lieing to the mistresses as much as they lie to the wives? GOD I'D LOVE TO KNOW. I am furious that another woman could do this to me. <BR>HOW CAN THEY LIVE WITH THEMSELVES?????<P>------------------<BR><BR>JJJ

Let it out girl! I've been there, I think we all have. I know my H lied to OW as much as he lied to me (probably even more) but I don't give a s--t! The one thing she knew full well from the beginning was that he was a married man. So to me, no matter what he told her, she was in the wrong. She was plenty willing to go along with the lies and cover ups until he dumped her, then she became a total blabbermouth. However, if you talk with OW you will find that 99% accept no responsibility for their actions. They are always innocent and were always totally pursued by MM who was their soulmate and who truly loves only them and on and on and on. WS are liars and OP anre liars. that's why they get along so well, for awhile at least.

JJJ,<P> Yes, of course I was angry at the OW...but, I was even angrier at my xH.<BR> Do you know as fact that they are having an affair? I have only read a couple of your posts... I think at this point you have very strong suspicion(?). For your sake, I truely hope that you are mistaken. Unfortunately, gut instincts are usually correct. The voice mails are very telling, too.<P> Back to your question, how can they live with themselves(OP)? Well, most likely, they are being strung along, just as you are. I think the only way to get them out of your marriage, is to present a united front (You and H) and tell OW, "NO Contact"! Then, you have to deal with rebuilding trust and love with your H. Not easy, I know. I never did trust my xH, again.<P> OW in your situation seems pretty confidant. Is your H still defending her "honor"?<P> Mynabird

This is kind of foolish but initally I felt sort of a bond with the other woman because I know my H lied to both of us. But now I just hate her guts and have bouts of such extreme anger that its frightening. I get mad at my H too. But like you, she knew he was married from the get go. For that matter so was she!! I've told my H that he really sunk pretty low to be with this low class chic. And the one and only time I spoke with her all she could say was, "but I love him" Oh brother!!! She chased him, she had a crush on him and she just didn't care about his family or the fact that she was displaying no moral character. What selfish people she and my H are....I told her that he wasn't her boyfriend, he wasn't her fiancee, he wasn't her husband...all she was was his mistress....she had no reply to that..I actually told her that she needed to waked up and smell the coffee and realize that maybe she deserved more than just the sloppy seconds (pardon my english!) I know just how you feel. I've never been one to harbor anger, but in this case I'm sad to say that I do.

Well, usually they rationalze that you cant help who you fall in love with. Then there is the claim that Ow took no vows in your marriage so she isn't responsible. My H OW must know she is in the wrong. She hangs up when I answer the phone and has even changed her phone # after I confronted H with phone bill evidence ( before he learned about phone cards)<P>I think that is the lowest of the low when she lied to you too. But its easier for us to hate the OW more than our H. <P>Lora

Hey JJJ where are you located? I'm in the seattle area. Actually found Jo on this board in the saame town as me.<BR>Lora

Mynabird, Lora, Fairdust, everyone..<BR>I am sitting here with such a feeling of enpowerment reading your responses. I may just make it through this after all!!!!<BR>I am all the way out in New York Lora. Figures! I feel like meeting you and Jo for coffee!!! Cheesecake on me!<BR>Thank you, thank you, thank you! How I ever stumbled on this forum I'll never know. <BR>Deep breath.<BR>Yes Mynabird, my husband defends this OW to the end. The other day I found her hair clip in the console of our car wraped around our cell phone antenna. He claims it's been in the car for a while, since the last time she needed an innocent ride home. (Could be true, I don't use that cell phone often) He was genuinely surprised that it was in the car. I asked him if he believed it was left there by accident...he did. I said, "you can't possibly believe that she didn't do this on purpose"...he defended her to the nines..."she wouldn't do that". "That would be stupid and she wouldnt act that way." OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!! What a crock. If she isn't having fun at my expense I don't know a thing about anything. WHy doesn't he see her for the coniving wretch that I do? Deep breath #2....<BR>I must get to bed, it's 1:00 am out here and I run my own day care in my home. The pitter patter of several little feet arive in 6 hours!<BR>Have a restful night. I believe I will.<BR>Jen<P>------------------<BR><BR>JJJ

Oh, Stella, you sound exactly like me!! I hate her. I have struggled against fantasizing about breaking her jaw, leaving a little note under her husband's windshield wiper, busting her out at her job in front of boss and co-workers, sending an invitation to the coffee bar where she and my husband used to meet up for dates (from my "husband") and confronting her in public. I get to thinking that I must be a really evil person to be harboring these thoughts. They are poison. And I am ashamed of myself. But not too ashamed.<P>I'm gonna come right out and say it: I hate her.<P>I have said so many times how she left her husband and child behind and begged my husband to move in with her; when he refused, saying that he couldn't leave his children, she had the nerve to be mad at him. She told him to bring my children to live with her. "I would love them like my own, they are a part of you." Okay, she abandons her kid and begs my husband to let her raise mine. What a mom!<P>That is one thing that I did go off on her about, the one time that I spoke to her. I told her "You have no right to make decisions for my children!" What did she have to say for herself? Nothing.<P>I am sure, too, that she and my husband rehursed what I would be told when I called her. I told him that I would call her, enough was enough, because he wasn't letting go very quickly. He said "If you do this, I WILL leave you." And I said. "Alrighty, then. You must be hiding something. You must not be just "very good friends" like you told me you were." He stomped out of the house and was gone for a couple of hours.<P>Guess what. When I asked how far the relationship had gone, physically, she repeated almost verbatim what he had told me. (Uncanny. They must be soulmates and can truly read each other's minds. Or else he called her from his office and told her what to say.)<P>Anyways, I read their chat. Here she is, after he has come back to me (for good, he says) begging him to meet at her at a restaurant, a hotel, anything, sweetheart, PLEASE!!!!!! And if you do, will you be loyal to Mary? (no response) I said, Will you be loyal to Mary? (no response) I need you to answer me! Will I ever see you again, my darling? (well, you know the track record of uh, me and my wife's relationship, uh,. . .)<P>So, it all depended upon what I, Mary, was going to do or say that day to make him mad. So he'd have a reason to make her dreams come true.<P>Here he is, a daddy, a husband, and she is begging him to divorce me (remember, my darling, you divorce a spouse, not a child) so that "God would give him to her." Fancy her asking God to give her my husband.<P>She was the one who asked him if he ever thought about sex with her. She was the one who drove the two hour drive to his apartment and practically raped him (of course, he didn't mind.) Yeah, I read their chat, dog that I am. Which makes me despicable in their minds, because I have intruded upon their personal business.<P>So, am I mad at her? Oh, does a bear sh in the woods?<P>I asked my husband, besides the fact that she looks like an old saddle left out in the rain, how could you love someone who is a complete filthy slut and a liar? Know what he said?<P>"Well, I wasn't gonna marry her or anything."<P>But that's not what he told her.<P>This is the guy I still love, stupid me, but I am reminded of the Bible verse "I have perfumed my bed. . .come, let us have our fill of love, for the goodman is journeyed afar. . ." Or however it goes. Something to the effect that a dirty woman is the downfall of a lot of good men.

Oh, let me jump in on this one!!!<BR>I would love to confront OW and give her a piece of my mind, but have refrained so far... She really knew how to "work" my H! all the complements, flattering, etc. In one of her emails she listed his "wonderful qualities" and "bad habits" - there were only 3 bad habits: snoring, says he is messy, and Cruella!!!! Yep, guess I am Cruella!!!!! How nice of her to give me a nickname, huh? If she only knew the names I have for her!!! I asked my H if he could trust someone who was out looking for men - think they "met" on a phone meeting deal!!! And, she is married with two children, too!!<BR>She is trash - to put it politely, and I think she saw a way to get a "better" situation with my H!!! She is the one who brought the A to my attention by calling my house, asking for him, and hanging up! Men are so dense when it comes to women, aren't they?? H couldn't see what she was doing - guess she hoped I would kick him out and she'd be there to "take care of him." Excuse me while I throw up!!! Oh, I agree with all of you - can't stand OW!!! You should hear her breathy, sexy, sweet voice! Again, makes me sick! How can a man respect a woman who is married, a mom, and out there looking??? It is beyond me!!!!<BR>I read a post yesterday in which someone mentioned ripping out the OW's pubic hairs!! ooh, that would be fun!!! one by one!<BR>This felt good to vent! <BR>Take care, A

Yes, I'm POed at OW but as time goes by less and less. I can almost see that I may be grateful to her. My marriage is saved thanks to her. She's an evil person. She blackmailed her former employer as he was having an affair also. She told me if she didn't get what she wanted that she would go to his wife. He said ok you can have what you want if you give the evidence you have about our affair. (His OW was part owner of the business) She is so very stupid, she gave them the evidence! They waited a few weeks to get evidence on her for being a terrible employee in case of a lawsuit and fired her! She was shocked! Can you believe anyone could be so stupid? When I called her house and asked for Richard (her husband) her reply was "Richard is not my husband's name." When someone calls here and asks for a man with a name other than my husband's, I don't say "That's not my husband's name." I was highly upset but still saw the humor in that! I told my husband that he should have worn that t-shirt that says "I'm with stupid." when he was with her. She's lost her husband, has nothing to do with her family, her husband's family can't stand her, is about to lose her job, her son is seeing a psych, and she's still stalking us. She's a piece of work. My husband thanks the Lord each day that he saw the light and got away from her...so am I.

Oops, made a mistake. She told him that she would revel evidence of their affair if she didn't get what she wanted. Sorry...

If you want to know who truly arrogant they can be go to <A HREF="http://www.gloryb.com." TARGET=_blank>www.gloryb.com.</A> It's the TOW (The Other Woman) website.

Yes I am PO'd at the OP. I have known her as long as my H. She has seen me and my children in the office 4 times a week for 5 years. She hasn't even mentioned me or the kids other than to say they will be fine.<P>She worked him too. I was so naive. She told everyone if they didn't believe in the bible literally they were misguided. She called herself the offic wife to my face.<P>We have been to her house for dinner. she has been to ours. My kids know who she is and have played with her kids.<P>Yes, I feel betrayed by her very much as well. But she is in the same state of unreality as my H. She can't see it. She may not see it for a long time. But she will. She may think she has won something, but she has lost so much more.<P>She doesn't even care that she will not be accepted by his family. Imagine that. <P>They don't care, they cant' care, but they will care. She may have my H, the security for her children (she whined to my H that her H is not intellegent and doesn't have a job) the "power" that comes with being my h's "partner".. They are coworkers. He a surgeon, she the assistant.<P>But they have to look at themselves in the mirror every day. I still have a hard time believeing that these actions don't come back to haunt you in the wee hours of the AM...even if it is later down the road.

Annc:<P>Don't feel bad. I was the "Predator," the monster from the Arnold Swarztenegger movie. The monster who hunts the most virile men for sport and saves their skulls as trophies.<P>Now, if that aint a complete turn-around, I don't know what is. Who's calling who a predatory monster?<P>One question: Why are there no guys on here posting about the Other Man? Or is that too touchy of a subject for a guy, sharing his wife with a bum?<P>Women ARE the true competitive ones, are we not?

I don't know that I hate OW, I know I have reason. But I don't hold her responsible for ruining my marriage, although I do know she pursued my H without conscious. She conived and schemed and planned.<P>From listening to all her voice pages to my H, I know she was brainwashing him against me. She also manipulated him with guilt and major sex. Pretty lowlife skank slime type sex talk. (involving human waiste)<P>Pretty funny tho, to this day neither of them know I was listening to all her messages, 7 months worth.<P>I think I profoundly dislike what the OW is, she has a foul mouth and has no restraint when it comes to harassing me. But thank the Lord the courts were just.<P>Now that I've finally seen her, I think I feel some pity and empathy for her. She is a mess. And she physically looks the part as well. She's desperate to own a man, I think she thinks it's her last chance or something, it's very pathetic.<P>I guess mostly I hold my H squarely responsible for his part. He is a weak minded man. Has no strength of conviction. It's sad.<P>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 08, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 08, 2000).]

Resilient:<P>You are a saint! Please come down here from your cloud and bless me with some of that compassion stuff because I want to be just like you.<P>You have fought the forces of evil and came out victorious--you are a superhero. You should be wearing a cape.<P>I dunno--a woman who lures a man with sex just to have her for his own IS pretty pathetique, I agree, but I see her as predatory rather than sad at this point. When I think that I, myself, treated my husband pretty well in that dept, I become so angry. And knowing the moral man he was before the affair and the complete sexual-deviant sleeze he became after the affair, I wish I could send her a big thank-you with my boot.<P>I ran across a message from her to him that sez: "Baby, I can't wait to have you bulldoze me."<P>I am so naive, I had no idea what that meant until I saw something referring to homosexuality on "Law and Order." Now, I want to gag.<P>Especially since he tried to live his sexual memories with me.<P>That's why I am wondering if she is really and truly out of his head.<P>He, funny thing, agrees with me that she's a--shall I say it, is this a dirty word?--whore. But he had a good time with her, so I guess he doesn't hate her too much.<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited August 08, 2000).]

Bernzini!!!<P>Don't cannonize me yet. LOL!<P>I just feel that my H is the responsible party because he knows and supposedly loves me and hence he knows how much this is hurting me but does it regardless.<P>The OW IS a threat, I know .... but if I would have met my H's needs she wouldn't have been. So I share the responsibility.<P>As I'm typing this I can't believe I've really learned something. I didn't realize it till just now. Or maybe I'm just in a generous mood. Who knows how I'll feel tomorrow regarding Froot Loop (OW).<P>Believe me, I thought I hated her, esp after having her use personal info my H gave her to hurt me and diss me. She was over the top and as vulgar as you can get. A real piece of work this one.<P>If you read my earlier posts, you'll probably see my anger and hatred towards her. Believe me, it was there. But I was also very angry with my H, he was just as cruel and indifferent. I was in the midst of cancer treatments at the time and they both effectively bludgeoned me with massive verbal abuse. I'm sure my H chooses not to remember any of it.<P>I understand how you guys feel about OWs and sometimes I fill up with that same anger and hatred. But since seeing her, I don't feel those emotions to the same degree. Maybe I'm in denial???<P>p.s. BTW, what is Bulldozing? I think I know ... does it have to do with the poop shoot??? LOL!<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 08, 2000).]

I feel exactly the way jjj10 does...an others. In the beginning, I did have a chance to talk to her and asked her what kind of person she was to do this. She just acted like "well...I love him...." blah, blah, blah...and "I'd give him up if I thought your marriage had a chance, but I don't think it does." AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH! "No, not with YOU in the picture!"<P>I haven't spoken to her since the first few months (I'm going on 9 months now). I have in the meantime, researched the "alienation of affection" legal action and found that I could sue her for this, when and if the divorce happens; I probably won't tho. I guess I'll have to wait and see.<P>In my heart I know I'm not supposed to hate her...but I really do. I think she's the scum of the earth. I've had married men hit on me and, excuse me, but I knew better. EVERYBODY KNOW BETTER!!! I blame my H too, but I do hold her very responsible.<P>In the past few weeks (don't know why), I've been having dreams in which she appears and I attack her!! I really rip her apart! And this from a pacifist!! O well, at least it's only in my dreams....maybe that's how I'm working out.<P>I want to get to the place where I don't hate her. I would like to love her with God's love....just am not there yet.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited August 08, 2000).]

Bulldozing is just what you think it is.<P>I am still going to canonize you, Resilient. You've made me feel a little stronger. Your self-esteem must be the rock of Gibralter after being mentally abused by this creature. Me, after being demonized by someone who didn't even know me and who was trying to steal my husband, I feel quite indignant<P>There are so many times, like today, that I feel like "Why am I the one who has to be understanding when no one makes an attempt to understand me? Or forgive me, or help me, or speak to me." Seems like a daily grind to pull myself up by the bootstraps, so I thank you for setting a good example of what I should be doing, how I should be acting.<P>I should act more the part of the Christian that I claim to be. In time, I guess, I'll get there.

Bernzini,<P>Listen, I'm really gettin embarressed, there are plenty of posts in the archives where I've had uncontrolled attacks using the OW's name. "Teritz Syndrome" is what I call it.<P>And believe me there is likely to be more.<P>It's just that when I finally saw this woman for the first time (aft 9+ mos of her boinkin my H) I was floored at how messed up she was. She looked like a retired member of the Night of the Living Dead. No Joke! She was scary looking and a really really sad sight.<P>So even tho she's been abusive to me, I can imagine she has had many people treat her bad, so she thinks that's how everyone is. Her life really must suck.<P>I am NOT going to turn the other cheek or anything like that, I just believe my H is as responsible as anyone, him more so because he understood what another affair would do to me, yet he did it again anyway, not to mention WHO he picked. Maybe if this was the first time I'd feel more hatred toward OW.<P>JoJo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 08, 2000).]