Dear Catplay: Hi! Ohmy_marie here! Decided to "weigh in"...<P>Loved this post...really hit home. Not because of the weight issue, but because of the height issue. See, OW in my situation was taller than me by about 4 inches and H liked this about her. Not to mention the fact that she was 10 years younger, and he liked that too! But, OH MY! How do you grow 4 inches at the age of 38? Growth hormones? Steroids??? And, even bigger OH MY! How do you take 10 years off your face and butt?<P>And moreover, what exactly do our H's affair teach us about ourselves? That physical beauty and youth RULE THE WORLD???? That a small waistline and a few less crows feet around the eyes is more IMPORTANT, more VALUED, more CHERISHED than the fact that our bodies BORE their children out of love, that our crows feet come from years of smiling along with THEM....<P>Dear Catplay, accept yourself as you are. CELEBRATE YOU! You deserve to be loved AS IS. Being overweight, or too thin, or too short, or too tall, or too blonde, or too pale, or too tan, or too old...IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR ANY SPOUSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.<P>If you would like to lose weight, do so to celebrate a NEW YOU...<P>But me? I've given up on trying to be 4 inches taller and 10 years younger.<P>I'm GORGEOUS AS IS! How do I know???? 'cause I told myself so!<P>From one beauty to another, as always, hoping we all find peace! ~Marie

Dear Dazed and Confused,<BR>Are you my counselor? She has said the exact same to me about my H's self worth being asociated with having a trophy and when I failed him, he didn't have what he thought he needed to feel important. What's really sad about that is he has so much to offer and is so important but doesn't realize it. He is a wonderful man and so very talented and well respected. Respect for him has kind of slipped recently. But he'll get that back!<P>H has had a difficult time "growing up" since we have been married, most of his problems I know now stem from his childhood, as do most of us. He is a child of alcoholic parents. <P>I don't like myself for how I look, but the A made me even more self conscious and feeling inadequate. Before the A, of course this is all part of denial, I was of the opinion that he would always love me regardless of how much I weighed. That's not true and I have become so desparate to lose it that I get depressed thinking about how long it will take me and I need to lose it fast before he takes off again. All of these thoughts just stockpile and it becomes a vicious cycle.<P>Every night I claim I will start tomorrow, boy, do I sound like Scarlett or what? The path to hell is paved with good intentions, damn, I'm building an interstate highway.<P>I know all of the things I need to do to get on track for me, but I just can't get motivated. Do you think it's depression?<BR>I seem to be more depressed the longer he stays faithful to me, is this strange? Actually, when I read about the three stages of marriage, I identified with the stage of withdrawal just recently and I'm afraid I am stuck in this stage. It just took him so long to committ to US again, and I think I got so tired and frustrated that I didn't care anymore what he did or what happened to us.<BR>It is so difficult for me to "feel" anything, anymore, it's like I'm in a time warp or something, it's hard to explain.<P>I hope I come out of this soon, I do have anti-d's but I don't take them. Maybe I should, you all say they help. Will they help me lose weight?<P>I'm sorry I'm rambling on here, when I get on a roll, I can't stop.<P>Thanks for posting and thanks for the input.<P>Cathy

Hello, Our OW (not the hookers, dancers, or "massages" but the EA/PA girl) is tall, thin, blonde, young, and has "spirit" (whatever the heck that means). I am short, fat, mouse brown, a year older than my husband, and I guess I don't have much "spirit" anymore. That is probably due to the fact that I have 2 kids and am exhausted. Oh, she also has an interesting job to talk about whereas I stay home and change poopie diapers (his choice). I think that sometimes they forget that they aren't getting any younger/cuter either, maybe because we are too nice to remind them! I wish I had an answer for you, but I wanted to let you know that I know how you feel. I think that he did get involved with the OW because she seemed to be so much "more" than I am, but when it comes down to it I think they need to realize it is all surface stuff. The OW doesn't want to hear all their bowling stories and h.s. football triumphs. What I see from our OW is the what can you do for me stuff, and that gets old fast. Hang in there.

Cathy:<P>No, I'm not your counselor, just a reasonably insightful person.<P>Your H's problems are his problems, and they WILL NOT GO AWAY, no matter what you do. If you're thin, you'll still be older than you were when you were the beauty queen he married. He is going to have to take a look inside himself and deal with his issues; otherwise you will spend the rest of your life twisting yourself in knots trying to be something you can't be -- 18 years old again.<P>Fear is a terrible motivator for weight loss. The fact that you can't get going with losing the weight is in a strange way a POSITIVE thing -- that part of you that knows you're worthwhile is saying "I AM VALUABLE JUST AS I AM; I WILL NOT TIE MYSELF IN KNOTS TRYING TO LIVE UP TO YOUR UNREALISTIC IDEAL."<P>You know that you are more than a number on a scale. Does your H? Can he?<P>THAT is the tough question you have to answer.<P>You're angry with him for being so shallow. And who could blame you? There's a lot of gray area between "letting yourself go" and merely getting older and having borne four children. <P>If you are a former beauty queen, I'll bet that 50 pounds extra looks better on you than my 50 pounds looks on me. Would I like to take off 30 of them? You betcha. But I don't feel like my marriage depends on it.<P>Cathy, it's time you started looking out for YOU, instead of just being a mirror of what your H sees. You can only control what you do, you can't control what he does. I think you are depressed because you are angry with him for being so shallow and unrealistic. And who could blame you? Is he Mr. Perfect? Heck no. He's this short little weasel of a man who thinks he's somehow entitled to have a perfect-looking wife. Bulls**t, I say.<P>Start doing some things for YOU. Go to a movie with a friend. Take a long walk every day. Volunteer at your local animal shelter and offer to walk dogs. Get a manicure. Take care of YOURSELF and stop worrying what your H is doing. If he's going to stray, he'll stray, and you'll have to deal with that then. <P>Meanwhile, when you feel better about YOU, you'll be more likely to want to open up sexually. Maybe that'll make your H respond, maybe it won't. If he's that hung up on having Miss 18-year-old Perfect Body forever, it's not something you can live up to. Doesn't make you a bad person, just makes him a moron.

Does this work in reverse?<P>I think my STBX may have left in part because she realized she could do better since she lost weight!<P>When I met her, she was about 30lbs overweight, and had a pretty crappy self-image. Maybe thought I was the only guy who could love her.<P>Over the past few years, she has devoted herself to getting in shape. Lost 30lbs, down to 15 percent body fat...looking pretty hot! She even started teaching aerobics part-time. Of course, now she gets hit on everywhere she goes. Now that she has OM, she's lost even more weight and started tanning.<P>What gives?<p>[This message has been edited by cjack (edited September 25, 2000).]

Dear Oh my Marie,<P>Thanks so much for your beautiful thoughts on this issue. True we can lose weight but we can't get shorter or taller. My h is 5'5 and I am almost 5'6. Not alot of difference in height but when you weigh more than h, your weight really stands out.<P>I know we are all beautiful, I just want to be better than OW, I know I am in the looks department. My H says her skin is fried from the tanning bed. Me, I've never been to a tanning bed! OW also had a boob-job, me, I need one after nursing four children, but I'd rather drive a Lexus! (That's why someone invented underwires!) She wears so much make-up she can scrape it off with her fake fingernails. Me, just give me my good old Clinique base and my Maybeline mascara.<P>The one thing he said to me when I asked him, after D-day, what he liked about her, he said "she's small and has pretty eyes". This absolutely HAUNTS me every day of my life. I can't be SMALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>So, what do you do? Life goes on or does it? <P>Thanks again Marie, you are so sweet, as all of you are.<P>Cathy<BR>

Dear Dazed:<P>Thank you, Thank you !!! You are so absolutely dead on the money , correct!<P>I am angry with him for setting his expectations of me at an unobtainable place for me. Those expectations are to be owned by me and no one else. <P>I am what I am and I have value and worth and I don't need to be "beautiful" to make someone else happy. I am 51 years old, mother of four, sister of six, faithful and devoted wife of 31 years . How much more beautiful can a person get, right!!!!!!!! <P>Now, let me go wash some clothes so they won't think I've turned into a "beautiful" computer nerd.<P><BR>Thanks DC, where have you been hiding?<P>Cathy

Hi Cathy,<P>I remember when my H had his second OW... tan, blond, wore and ankle braclet...<P>I was 265 pounds, freckly and pasty... not a pretty picture... BUT... I was ME... and that should have been good enough. <P>No, you can never be SMALL, and that was a crappy thing for your H to say! My mother used to say things about my weight all the time and it only made me want to eat more!!<P>Please, for yourself, look in the mirror and see the beauty that is there... again, yes, lose the weight if it will make YOU feel good about YOU, but not for your H or ANY MAN EVER. I get so mad about this stuff. If you lost a breast to cancer and your H was a "breast man" he would HOPEFULLY not be so SHALLOW as to love you less.<P>By the way, yes, my weight loss was a result of the infidelity diet in reverse... I gained the weight with my babies and packed on a few more when he cheated with three women in the 80's... lost a few pounds (about 20) prior to my 40th birthday (13 years later) and had an three month affair, felt like crap (you can do a search of my over 2000 posts if you want to read about it, but I sure wouldn't expect you to do that! ) and then my H had a revenge affair (with assorted other daliances) soooooooooooo... yes, it just kinda came off for awhile, and then I had to work at it. And I need to work at it now!!<P>Take care, Sheryl

Cathy,<P>Hi, hon...<P>Where do I start? I have the kind of looks, tall, athletic, blue eyes that so many have told me I'm beautiful. But I look in the mirror and see only the little extra crinles of fat on my legs, the grey hairs...<P>I would say forget the weight for the moment and make it your goal to get rid of the depression.<P>I wrote Lostva some time back because I was very depressed. Have still not taken any drugs!<P>She recommended Phil McGraw's book, "Life Stategies". I'm still working through it and have come away with a much clearer idea of what I want to do, that it is up to me...<P>I'm also listening to a tape series on building self-esteem by Jack Canfield. Great stuff!<P>The OW was 21 and my h described her as a hot babe, though I have never seen her. He also told me how he loved her big, warm brown eyes, while my blue eyes were small and angry. He compared her eyes to my lovely 3 yr. old D's. Now, he can't take it back. He can only say how insane he was...<P>She also was short, and I am tall. He and I have always fit together, while he said she was so short, it was a bit awkward in sex. She was hairy while my skin is baby smooth...<P>I honestly don't believe they find someone prettier, just OTHER. She was so opposite of me, and I tortured myself for months comparing myself to every teenage body as he oogled them. But it was his problem!<P>Start actively building yourself up. I used to think it was all psychobabble, but it is sooo working for me.<P>Then, if you want to change anything, it will be because you WANT to and you know you CAN.

Hey Cathy,<P>Wow, this topic has really taken off! I think I have read all the posts here and would appreciate views on this twist of the "weighty" issue.<P>When firestorm and I married in 1976, I was 19 years old and 20 pounds (at least) underweight. I really hadn't filled out, guess I was a "late bloomer". I looked my best after our first child was born and I weighted 138, because I am 5'9" tall, and was still only 20.<P>I had to have a hysterectomy at age 30, and I gained a couple of pounds each year after that until I found my self 30 lbs. overweight at 42 years old. So I started exercising and lost over 30 lbs. (thanks to weight watchers). I looked and felt great, got lots of compliments and attention, our sex life improved TREMENDOUSLY, and my life seemed perfect. Firestorm constantly told me how good I looked, how lucky we were to have each other, blah, blah, blah.<P>I had been thin for about 3 months when he started the affair. Of course, during that same time his mother got sick and died after being in the hospital for 10 weeks.<P>I don't think for one minute that my weight loss caused him to cheat, nor do I believe that if I had remained overweight he would have remained faithful. I think his mother's death impacted his choice much more than my weight did.<P>I have regained 15 pounds since this began, and haven't mustered up the willpower to take it back off yet. The "infidelity diet" causes weight GAIN for me, and from the posts here I can finally see that I am not the only one that happens to.<P>I realize that men are much more visually oriented than women are, but I agree with New Beginning's post. I love the person firestorm is, and I honestly believe that I will always love that person, no matter what physical changes might occur over the years. Of course that's easy to say since he has honestly only gotten better looking over the years!<P>Peppermint<p>[This message has been edited by peppermint (edited September 25, 2000).]

Cathy: Well, for the last week I've been hiding, with my H, in a Jamaican rainforest, letting my fat ol' self hang out in a bathing suit. Well, five bathing suits, each with an underwire top and push-up pads, to maximize these almighty hooters that are the side benefit to being the fatty that I am. <P>Waiting for K to come into this thread and bash me is like waiting for the other shoe to drop. You oldtimers know what I mean.<P>Our culture is totally wacked where priorities are concerned. The culture tells men that having a decorative woman is the most important thing. I can't tell you how many couples I saw last week where the woman looked fabulous in a bikini, but was scowling all week because it was too much walking, or the drinks were too weak, or because the restaurants at the resort weren't fancy enough, or the food was strange. Do you think their men were any happier than my H was? Maybe they wore this fabulous babe on their arm, but she's probably utterly frigid in the sack and nags constantly.<P>My H didn't get emotionally involved with his "friend" because I'm fat, he did it because I was neglecting him while finishing my graduate degree. Now, granted, my H knew I was short when we met, but I was thin then, although it was because of my eating disorder. I thank God that he doesn't get his identity out of wearing me as an ornament.<P>Cathy, any time you need a picker-upper, just call for me on this site, and I'll be here!

D&C,<P>K is on a break (see his thread)... he won't bother us... so indeed I used the "if you lost a breast" argument already and HE CAN'T REFUTE ME... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA <P>...in all seriousness, I do know what you mean, and this subject (and the "attractive spouse" supposed emotional need idea) always ticks me off so royally that it causes me to actually post something (instead of lurk only ).<P>Neato about hanging out in your bathing suit in the sun... ah, bliss!!!

Boy, I see where this is going!!<P>Working so hard to save my marriage, I accepted the Harley cure to focus on meeting his top ENs. For my h, it is sex, domestic support, good looking spouse.<P>The domestic support was the worst for me, though I have also bought a new wardrobe and started wearing more make-up, etc.<P>Now I'm asking, "are the roles we've been trying to live by the right ones??? His idea of domestic support and a pretty wife go together. He gets to focus on work, come home to a lovely woman, and never has to lift a finger at home or with the kids.<P>Well, this was the old h, anyway. But change is hard! I found this great story about roles and infidelity and sent it to him:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/mfwedding.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/mfwedding.html</A> <P>What do you guys think???

Hi Schizzo,<P>This part jumped out at me:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Having an honest, satisfying, male-female relationship in our society has been next to impossible. The stereotypes and prejudices we grow up with make it extremely difficult to ever see the other person as he or she really is. The games we learn to play make our interactions anything but honest. And the myths we've been taught about love relationships continually keep us from dealing with what's really happening. We deny the truth while hoping and dreaming for the impossible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, this is why, ultimately, I believe in total honesty FROM THE BEGINNING. Of course, most of us didn't realize the problems until years after our marriages, so to suddenly voice our concerns is daunting to our spouses. <P>As far as "where this is going"... you know this has been written across these boards since the beginning. The whole concept of looks being an "emotional need" slays me. My stbx is GORGEOUS, model gorgeous. Always was, and yes, he was quite nice to look at. But an ugly spirit can muddy the water, and although I still see the man I married, he doesn't look beautiful to me. <P>If you read my goodbye thread (I know, it's embarrassing!) I am seeing someone else. It's very serious. This new man has a spirit that shines through like a beam of light... he is adorable physically, but it's his SPIRIT that touches me. He could go bald, lose his teeth, lose a limb... none of that would matter to me. He is a beautiful person. Why, oh why can't men see that in us!?

As has been said, men are much more visual. They are even aroused by the visual while we are aroused more by the right touch.<P>That said, we don't have to be drop-dead gorgeous. I was surprised that my h said this weekend that he is really starting to love my body. Same body! If anything, I was a bit prettier when we married.<P>But the feelings of closeness make them look through rose colored glasses. That was true of OW. Now, it's true of me!

Hi again Schizzo, <P>Oh, I am having WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much fun here! <P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As has been said, men are much more visual. They are even aroused by the visual while we are aroused more by the right touch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I know that. Here's my take on it. When we marry, we both know what we look like. That's point one. <P>NOBODY can expect us to stay the same...the body will change, the face will change, the hair will change. <P>Then there are the unexpected changes, due to physical/mental illness (and I include stress in there as well). <P>There are men out there who are sensitive and don't fall back on that "men are visual" excuse to manipulate (POJA or otherwise) their woman to have a boob job or whatever his flavor of the month is... <P>Don't get me wrong, I like nice looking people too. I look at fashion mags and stuff. But in my opinion, to use looks as a reason for ANYTHING in marriage is shallow, rude, and WRONG. <P>Sheryl

Sheryl,<P>I totally agree! Though I am more aware now of trying to look my best, but it's (mostly) for me!<P>There are more ways than weight to let ourselves go. I used to walk around in old t-shirts with drippy breasts from nursing (I know, gross). We had the money too. Now, I dress nice, wear make-up sometimes...<P>He sees women at their best in the workday. I could just say, tough like I used to.

Coming from a male perspective...for whatever it's worth....<P>The best sexual intimacy will take place between the two people who are the most "connected" emotionally. No question.<P>That would explain why men with beautiful wives often end up with women who might not "compare" in that department.<P>My wife has always been on the heavier side, and it bothers her more than it bothers me. It has NEVER been an issue or problem for me. I've done all I could possibly do to make her relax and enjoy out times together.<P>And while a nicely 'formed' woman may be appealing to the 'eye' or the 'visual' part of a man, there just is no comparison...of the quality of intimacy when there is a close friendship emotional bond.<P><p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited September 25, 2000).]

This thread is what finally made me post... I have been lurking. If you are interested in the story, my H posted as "hurt her" in "Just Found Out." <P>Anyway, he has indicated my weight is a problem for him. Doesn't like my tummy pooching out. I am a few pounds overweight and one of those people who has a lot of trouble losing. Of course the OW is tiny and responds to all stress by not eating. <P>I guess it just pisses me off. My H isn't that spectacular bodywise either. And he has been telling me a major reason our sex life has been lousy is MY bad feelings about my body. Well, I don't like it much, but I want him to own up to the fact that his discomfort with it contributes to his own inability to engage sexually. <P>His entire family is very thin, except for one cousin who is quite heavy... the adopted one! They think heaviness is a sign of moral failure and my H knows better intellectually, I think, but not emotionally. <P>Don't know what to do about this right now as I am still in the throes of recent discovery. I agree, though, it's rude to make this a big issue, especially to lie about it....

Sheryl,<P>I know "looks" is the main topic of this thread, but I'm having more trouble with him lumping all tasks into his endless "domestic support" need. Wouldn't the same principle apply?